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Clickers II-Buddy Read
Charlene wrote: "11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I hate politics in my horror fiction regardless of which ideology is bludgeoning the other. One more direct shot at the Bush administration and I may quit. Is this a Keene ..."
I'm liking this so far but the political abuse rivals King at his worst. Don't authors know they are putting off relatively half their audience when they pull crap like this?
Perhaps they aren't aware of it or they simply prefer fewer sales. I'm trying to let it float over my head but at around 30% I received a political sermon that most people would eventually have the sense to edit out of their novels. Book 1 didn't have that problem.
Kimberly wrote: "So behind....will start as soon as I finish DARK PLACES... sigh!"I started this before the group read, and now I'm wondering if I'll even get to the group read. I had decided to read Wakening the Crow instead of Dark Places, until I realized I only thought I owned a copy of the former. I do own the latter, but I'm wondering if I'll be too late to get much out of the discussion anyway. Kinda depends on when I finish this, I guess. Uh oh, I'm rambling again... :-)
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I hate politics in my horror fiction regardless of which ideology is bludgeoning the other. One more direct shot at the Bush administration and I may quit. Is this a Keene thing? Grassroots fict..."
I guess I didn't see it as a direct attack on either party or a specific administration (probably because I'm willfully and openly ignorant of politics in general), but rather an attack on government in general. I imagine Brian did have a strong influence in that respect, because he's mentioned in blog posts that he votes Libertarian (or other "Nth party") on principle because of his disgust with the "big 2" system of party politics.
I personally don't have a problem with it if it is done within the context of the story, and here it is, IMO. It is a national crisis, and addressing the White House response to it seems appropriate. You can argue whether or not there is clear and undisguised bias, and in my mind, that's more directed at religion than it is at politics here.
The first book was a localized, isolated catastrophe, and with this one, they've taken it larger-scale. To me that is evolving the story, and I'm glad they did, and I think by necessity it's going to bring politics into the story.
All just my humble opinion, obviously. I am enjoying it so far! I'm 10 or so pages into Chapter 7.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I'm liking this so far but the political abuse rivals King at his worst. Don't authors know they are putting off relatively half their audience when they pull crap like this? ..."
That depends on what is more important to the author, espousing their beliefs in their fiction, or supressing it just to increase sales. Clearly that's a decision every author has to make for themselves, but if all authors started editing their fiction to decrease the odds of offending someone, the world of fiction would get a lot less diverse and interesting to me personally...
I agree that this book seems to be taking more aim at religion than it is at politics. It doesn't bother me all that much-the politics or religion mentions, as long as it's not bashing me over the head or stealth preaching.
I'm only bothered when it's over the top and a direct hit. Mocking the presidents faith (Bush), changing Rumsfeld's last name and taking shots at him, a direct attack on the administration's response to Katrina, etc.It was so blatant he might as well use their real names.
More than anything it shows a lack of imagination. Authors fictionalized presidents all the time without making a carbon copy of whoever currently holds the office. I thought it was pathetic character sketching.
Maybe that's why I stopped reading Keene. After Urban Gothic (so bad,) I gave up on him.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I'm only bothered when it's over the top and a direct hit. Mocking the presidents faith (Bush), changing Rumsfeld's last name and taking shots at him, a direct attack on the administration's respo..."Whereabouts are you, Eleven? I'm at about 60%, and without spoiling anything I can say that at this point, the president's faith is WAY over the line.
I'm at 37%. I was going to ask if it gets any better but it doesn't sound like it. I'll keep going for now but it's likely that I will DNF in disgust. Too bad, because I really like Gonzalez and the story is still good when Keene bothers to step off his soapbox.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I'm at 37%. I was going to ask if it gets any better but it doesn't sound like it. I'll keep going for now but it's likely that I will DNF in disgust. Too bad, because I really like Gonzalez and t..."I meant it to say that the president's religion is now an integral part of the story.
Yeah, I guess I just wasn't paying that much attention, and didn't notice the direct correlations to reality, but I see your point, and agree on the lack of imagination, though it's possible it was an intentional joke to him/them if they really felt that strongly negative about the Bush administration. I just wrote it off as general bashing of the office.As far as the religion bashing, I've seen so much of it at this point that I just tune it out.
I have enjoyed most of Keene's work that I have read (in particular things like Terminal, the original limited edition, and Earthworm Gods, which was a similar "creature feature"). But I admit I haven't read Urban Gothic. I also am a big fan of Gonzalez's work, and was really saddened at his passing. :-(
I'm sorry to hear it's having such a negative impact on your experience, Eleven. These books were intended to just be fun creature romps, so it is too bad that the potshots weren't toned down or at least purely fictionalized.
I'm going to make an effort to not let that spoil it for me. Maybe I'll even come across some more super clever political names like Senator McBain or maybe Sondra Palin. I don't think Barack Adama was on the scene yet when this was written.
Mod
All this negativity...you're making me not want to start reading this one at all ;)
Robert wrote: "Yeah, I guess I just wasn't paying that much attention, and didn't notice the direct correlations to reality, but I see your point, and agree on the lack of imagination, though it's possible it was..."I've been told that Terminal is worth reading. I heard Dead Sea was good too and may still keep those on my tbr list. So far Darkness on the Edge of Town was the first and the only one that I enjoyed.
I'm still bummed out that Gonzalez is gone.
Kimberly wrote: "11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I'm going to make an effort to not let that spoil it for me. Maybe I'll even come across some more super clever political names like Senator McBain or maybe Sondra Palin. I..."Sorry :P
Mod
:P I need to get a copy of THE CORMORANT to read.....
Kimberly wrote: "11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I'm going to make an effort to not let that spoil it for me. Maybe I'll even come across some more super clever political names like Senator McBain or maybe Sondra Palin. I..."Kimberly, I'm having a blast with it so far. At about the 60% mark, things are ramping up just fine. :)
Mod
Good! (Someone needed to say some positive things here ;) ). I'll be starting it soon--just want to finish DARK PLACES first. :)
Kimberly wrote: "Charlene wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I'm going to make an effort to not let that spoil it for me. Maybe I'll even come across some more super clever political names like Senato..."But that doesn't mean that you don't need to read The Cormorant, because you DO. :)
I forgot about the Gregory group read. I'm guessing it went well?
They are reading Wakening the Crow. Another excellent book, but not quite as excellent as The Cormorant was. Stephen Gregory was my favorite new author of last year. Followed closely by Michael Rowe.
Good stuff.
Mod
Stephen Gregory was my favorite new author of last year. ..."
Cormorant is on my wish list. :) Waking the Crow, second.
Charlene wrote: "They are reading Wakening the Crow. Another excellent book, but not quite as excellent as The Cormorant was. Stephen Gregory was my favorite new author of last year. ..."
Enough said. I'll try to score both of them.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "Charlene wrote: "They are reading Wakening the Crow. Another excellent book, but not quite as excellent as The Cormorant was. Stephen Gregory was my favorite new auth..."
I hope that you'll like them.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "I've been told that Terminal is worth reading. I heard Dead Sea was good too and may still keep those on my tbr list. So far Darkness on the Edge of Town was the first and the only one that I enjoyed. ..."I haven't read Dead Sea yet but I also keep hearing good things about it.
I proofread the original limited edition release of Terminal, which is substantively different from the one widely available now (that I haven't read), because there was one element of the story that the mass market publisher was afraid would impact sales, and wouldn't publish it unless the changes were made. Brian himself said afterwards that in the end he felt the book was stronger as a result of the changes.
I admit my opinion of Brian's work is colored by the few interactions I've had with him (many years ago now) via email in the course of proofreading some of his titles, and meeting him a few times at cons, and he really is a very nice guy. He had a scene in one book that portrayed a traumatic event happening to one of the characters, that also happened to me a few years before reading it, and the emotions were so raw and real that I swear I felt like it was happening all over again. He definitely has his moments.
I also proofed Darkness on the Edge of Town, and I really enjoyed that one as well.
Speaking of proofreading, like many of Delirium's older titles, the hardback version of this really needed a closer editorial eye. It's not quite as bad as the Delirium version of the first book, at least. I hope the ebook is in better shape.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "Enough said. I'll try to score both of them. ..."Me too - I keep hearing raves about both!
Robert wrote: "Speaking of proofreading, like many of Delirium's older titles, the hardback version of this really needed a closer editorial eye. It's not quite as bad as the Delirium version of the first book, ..."My ebook is in pretty good shape as far as proofreading type stuff goes.
I have had bad luck with Crossroad Press. I've read a couple of their John Farris books and they are riddled with errors and character names changing. Aunty Clary Jean became Aunt Gary Jean and all kinds of other variations on the name.
I don't know if they just scanned these from the original books or what, but I do know that no one actually read them, or they wouldn't be as bad as they were.
OR, they saw the errors and did nothing to correct hem, which is even worse.
I'm at 40% and it feels like its really dragging again. Yeah, the scenes with the president are ridiculous and beyond my ability to suspend reality for the story. And then there are scenes were nothing actually happens. Nothing. Some characters talk and the whole chapter could have been deleted from the book with no consequence. I hope the action starts up again soon...I'm reading Dark Hollow right now too and there is so much dialogue and descriptions of things with almost no plot movement. I really want to like these books!
Speaking from personal exprience, scanning a book and cleaning up the results is a nightmare. That's a few weeks of my life I'm never getting back :-). But you gotta do it, or the result will be very unprofessional, as you point out, and some of them are really hard to spot (like 'rn' becoming 'm' and vice versa).
I'm a few pages from the start of Chapter 8, and I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop (view spoiler). The anticipation is killing me, especially given the size difference in the Clickers this time around!
It could just be the Johnny Walker Black Label talking but I'm enjoying this more now at around the 50% mark. The political rant was short enough in retrospect and I really want to know what happens with the president after Charlene mentioned the 60% mark.
55% - Secretary Barker instead of Secretary Baker? Gotta be freaking kidding me. My own joke just came to life again.
11811 (Eleven) wrote: "55% - Secretary Barker instead of Secretary Baker? Gotta be freaking kidding me. My own joke just came to life again."Laura Ashcroft!? I quit.
I'm having a blast now. I like this Livingston guy. :)
Charlene wrote: "70% now. [spoilers removed]"Click, click, click - right behind you, LOL!
One benefit of throwing in the towel early is I can read all your spoilers :)I don't know how to cheezy grin an emote yet.
Charlene wrote: "Aww, you quit? I just finished. [spoilers removed]"
Well said but yeah I quit. I loved the story and hated how it was written.
I've read all but the epilogue at this point - got more reading time than expected this weekend.I have to agree with you, Charlene. (view spoiler)
It's too bad, because I did like the story, and the action was well-done. It's ironic that in the prologue for the original, Jesus specifically said he didn't want the book to be preachy or have any sort of heavy message - he just wanted it to be plain old B-movie fun.
I also have to admit that by the end the lack of editorial oversight was getting to me as well. I might have been better off reading the ebook, which sounds like it was cleaner.
Robert wrote: "I've read all but the epilogue at this point - got more reading time than expected this weekend.I have to agree with you, Charlene. [spoilers removed]
It's too bad, because I did like the story..."
Robert, it sounds like we completely agree on this. It is a bit disappointing, because I did think it was well written and everything.
Well, I plowed through the rest to finish it off. There were parts of the story that really sped up once the action got going but far too much that dragged or was utterly ridiculous. I like the ultimate plan the Old Ones had, wish that we'd got a closer look at that.
Charlene wrote: "Robert wrote: "I've read all but the epilogue at this point - got more reading time than expected this weekend.I have to agree with you, Charlene. [spoilers removed]
It's too bad, because I did..."
I'm at about 75%, should finish soon. The Dark Ones are...(view spoiler)
Katy wrote: "Charlene wrote: "Robert wrote: "I've read all but the epilogue at this point - got more reading time than expected this weekend.I have to agree with you, Charlene. [spoilers removed]
It's too b..."
I loved that part with Livingston too, Katy!
Livingston was definitely my favorite character in this one! I wonder if he's in the next book, that would be great.
Maxine wrote: "Livingston was definitely my favorite character in this one! I wonder if he's in the next book, that would be great."I'm not sure if I want to continue on to the next one.
Does anyone else?
Charlene wrote:I'm not sure if I want to continue on to the next one.
Does anyone else?..."
*crickets*
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Cormorant (other topics)Wakening the Crow (other topics)
Wakening the Crow (other topics)
The Cormorant (other topics)
Wakening the Crow (other topics)
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Is this a Keene thing? Grassroots fict..."
Oh, I just ran into a part with that, Eleven. I just sort of skim over it if it bothers me. I'm finding the creature feature action to be fun, though.
I'm waiting for the other creatures from the first book to show up. The tension factor is ratcheting up while I'm waiting.