Read to Win the War discussion
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Faster Discussion Questions for First Half
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I really appreciated that this book gave look at how the Third Reich used the celebrity of motorsports to rally the country in support of developing the infrastructure and culture of a motorized society.
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I agree, Mark. I think that it's easy to forget how part of Hitler's early success with the German people was due to almost every aspect of life being taken over by the party, but in a way that made most people feel a part of something. At the same time, bringing it under control of the party meant that Hitler could ensure everything worked towards his ultimate goal. The NSKK, which controlled racing in Germany, was responsible for training military personnel to operate vehicles of all types.
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I am enjoying it. I've been studying the war years most of my life and this book gave me a new perspective on the rise of the Third Reich. It made me wonder how well known this story is within the racing community. The NSKK was a revelation to me as well and has made me want to look into what other para-military organization existed in Germany at the time.
"The NSKK was a revelation to me as well and has made me want to look into what other para-military organization existed in Germany at the time."The NSKK was a very popular organization and the Nazis had all sorts of groups like it. One reason it was created was to also increase the number of men with the ability to drive a car so that a rapid expansion of the German army would have trained drivers and mechanics. As you may recall the German Army was limited in size by the Treaty of Versailles.
The fun about your book for me is that since I was a teenager I followed Formula 1/Grand prix racing and the 1930's were an amazing age of racing.
The relationship to business leaders (auto manufactures) was always a big part of the rise of the Third Reich for sure. Doesn't Rob Citino talk about how Hitler bought out his generals? This book points out how the auto manufactures were bought out by him as well. There was a great parallel in the book between the French and German Auto shows of 1938 (?). The French President barely stays for 30 minutes while Hitler turned it into a major propaganda moment.I think this is something we see all the time today.... and should be wary of it if the relationship is being used for a hidden (or not so hidden) political agenda.
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Mark, I'm with you. I had never heard of the NSKK before and so I did some more reading on the organization. They even established a branch for youth! As far as Neal's question in no. 3 asking if we were shocked to learn what a critical player this was, I have to say, it was new information for me, but not shocking. It was a sound idea to create an organization that would train Germans as drivers. By the time Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, they had trained hundreds of thousands to drive. It was a great way to get young people interested in driving in order to be able to fill the needs a mechanized army would have.
Kali wrote: "Mark wrote: "I really appreciated how this book gave look at how the Third Reich used the celebrity of motorsports to rally the country in support of developing the infrastructure and culture of a ..."Kali, I wrote my comment before seeing your comment but yes, exactly the intent. I have seen one of the NSKK leather "crash helmets" that drivers and motorcycle units wore. It's very Art Deco but did not offer that much protection.
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Welcome Walter! I would be interested to hear from you about question 1 for context on the world of Grand Prix racing in the 30s. I follow sports, but auto racing less. I know that Grand Prix has always been big in Europe but I learned a lot from this book about how important it was. I don't think sport is as nationalistic today with all the top leagues employing players from all over the world. But politics is still a HUGE part of sports, just like it was during the 30s.
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I saw that the NSKK had a patch (of course) which was a diamond with a wheel and the Nazi eagle. I've seen images of it stitched onto the lower sleeve of military uniforms.
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In addition to what I mentioned in my post to Walter, I found it interesting that the cars were painted to represent countries, but the racers didn't seem to mind switching national teams just to win. But Neal noted that Rene Dreyfus was hurt when he was snubbed by the Bugatti team, and elated when he was finally asked to join. So it seems to have meant different things to different racers for different reasons.
I go back and forth as to if sports are as nationalistic today. It seems that nationalism only rears its head during the Olympics where it tends to be more marketing than patriotism.....them again the races described in this book were about propagandizing for the new Germany.
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Walter, you bring up a good point about the helmets not offering much protection. Driver safety did not seem to figure in to any of the car designs at the time. Neal hints at this with No. 4 in his questions. It isn't surprising to me to learn the drivers were superstitious. Aren't many athletes? Though the story of the clairvoyant writing a name and putting it in an envelope was really fascinating to me. As for how the drivers kept going, I think Neal does a very good job of explaining that the need to drive for them was just as necessary as the need to breathe. I'm not sure that they ever overcame their fears, they just learned to put them aside and keep going. The way he writes it, they HAD to put their fears aside and just race!
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In addition to what I mentione..."
Wesley wrote: "Kali wrote: "One of Neal's questions I thought was interesting was in No. 1, when he asked: Do you feel like sport is as nationalistic today? What do you all think?"
In addition to what I mentione..."
Wesley, I agree. It was interesting that as far as nationalism went, for a while, it wasn't about the driver, but about the car. Even when Lucy Schell starts her team, it's French, even though she was American. And that was the reason she was able to sell the idea, was to get France back into the race, so to speak.
Driver safety did not seem to figure in to any of the car designs at the time. I watched some archival footage of Rene and Rudi racing and the cars and gear seemed very rudimentary as compared to today's cars. There appeared to nothing in regards to driver safety. It did make me wonder if that was not even a concern at the time. Was it something that did not enter into the engineers minds??? Adding safety gear would have reduced speed...was life 'cheaper' then?
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In addition to ..."
Great point Kali. And to make it more confusing, when Lucy Schell and her husband were driving in their first long range rally, she made a point to fly the American flag. So she had the luxury to switch nationalities for her purposes!
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That's a good point about the Olympics, but even then, athletes who have the ability to represent another country often do. I would say the most nationalistic sport today is soccer, but only when it's time for the World Cup!
I agree, Kali and Mark, the lack of driver safety and protection was a noticeably absent part of the sport. I'd like to know why, as they were constantly developing and improving the cars, including more safety precautions was never a priority. Especially when so many people were severely injured or killed, and the amount of money lost on damaged cars must have been huge.
I want to thank you for this discussion! I would love to chat all afternoon but it is my wife's 50th birthday and I need to run. Looking forward to the live event with Neil.Thanks again!!!
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I watched some archival footage of Rene and Rudi racing and the cars and gear seemed very rudimentary as compared to..."
I know the safety stuff is crazy. The book mentions drivers flying out of their cars without seat belts! My only guess about why it takes so long for safety features to be added, it seems to be the case still today that we don't try to fix things until disasters occur. So maybe it took something like the three Italian drivers dying in one race to wake people up. Unless you're Mussolini who told the concerned drivers "you must race, and win!" or something like that, ha.
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I watched some archival footage of Rene and Rudi racing and the cars and gear seemed very rudimentary as compared to..."
Neal did a great job of making clear how much work it was to drive one of those cars back then. No automatic steering. Can you imagine that for hundreds of miles on a curved track?! I think that sadly, they did not put the value on the drivers' lives that modern racing does. With all of the restrictions put on car weights I guess they had to sacrifice somewhere. Maybe part of it was an overall different attitude towards safety at the time? We are so safety conscious now. If you look back at how a lot of things were done in the 1930s it will leave you scratching your head because it seems so obviously dangerous. And perhaps the danger was part of the draw. This is the time when stunt flying was wildly popular and people climbed out of aircraft cockpits to walk on the wings!
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Thanks again!!!"
Thanks for joining us Mark, and happy birthday to your wife!
I'm curious if the drivers ever asked for safety gear, or if any took it upon themselves to wear a proper helmet.
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I watched some archival footage of Rene and Rudi racing and the cars and gear seemed very rudimentary a..."
Really good point! I imagine most safety stickers exist only because enough people did said foolish thing to begin with!
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Thanks again!!!"
Sounds good Mark, thanks so much for joining us and adding your great perspectives. Will see you at the live author event next week, and happy 50th birthday to your wife!
Ilana wrote: "I agree, Kali and Mark, the lack of driver safety and protection was a noticeably absent part of the sport. I'd like to know why, as they were constantly developing and improving the cars, includin..."Safety was a huge problem well into the 1970's. As the cars became faster and faster, more and more drivers died. In the 1930's these cars didn't have seatbelts. Helmets were often leather. As late and 1960, the great Stirling Moss was wearing a polo helmet. Jackie Stewart and Nikki Lauda were the leaders in insisting on better safety. Lauda as you may recall was very badly burned and almost died.
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Unfortunately I don't think they had helmets back then that would have made a difference. Even today they only do so much. What was so shocking to me was that the cars were all topless without even a roll bar!
A very quick--likely flawed--google search is telling me that drivers began petitioning for safety measures in the 1960s, and that a roll bar, seatbelt, and a few other safety measure began to be required in the mid-60s. "Crash helmets" came out in 1952. Most saw death as a reasonable sacrifice, from what I gathered...very quickly.
Tazio Nuvolari was one of the rare world champions pre-war who lived to retire. Jim Clark's death was also a turning point
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Re superstitious drivers and national colours: I once read that British Racing Green was assigned to British drivers because in an early race, possibly even pre Great War, a British driver was assigned the number 13, and he was given green because it was considered a "lucky" colour in continental Europe. The Germans had a choice of Silver or white. France was blue, and Italy of course was Red.
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Agreed the long haul rallies blew my mind, driving cross-continent on iced roads at night with lamps instead of real headlights, seems insane! As you said, even more impressive that Lucy took it on so many times.
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I'm glad you brought her up. I had never heard of her before. What a force she was! To Neal's question, I think it is very important that we learn about brave, pioneering women like Lucy. She knew what she wanted and knew how to get it, yet she sounded like a woman of integrity. It's great to see examples of women who were able to balance motherhood and their passions nearly 100 years ago. I also was impressed by her that when she realized her time racing was past, she found a way to stay involved in something she loved so much, and was so successful at it.
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/life...Our good friends at Mercedes Benz produced this and it's an interesting compliment to Mark's book. Not as in depth or written with as much style perhaps but the photos are fun to look at. Some of these cars drove and handled more like today's trucks. One had to be strong to pilot these cars and cut the apex on a turn.
Kali you noted that they even had a youth group. This does not surprise me as the Nazis had a strong and intentional outreach to children in many aspects. Their approach was definitely get them while they are young. My grandmother's brother came from Hungary to visit us in the 1960s. He was an old man by that time. He was sitting in our kitchen talking with my dad and he was whispering (they were speaking in German). My brother and I were in the living room (we didn't understand German, I was about 7 and my brother was a teenage). My dad asked him why he was whispering and he looked in our direction and said he didn't want us to turn him in. After the Nazis, the communists did similar things indoctrinating children to the point that they would report their own family members for speaking against the government.
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She was a braver woman than I. I don't even like to drive in heavy rain in a modern car with automatic steering, anti-lock brakes, and airbags!
Kali wrote: "Wesley wrote: "Welcome Ilana! Before the hour is up, let's chat about questions 5 Lucy Schell a bit more. What an amazing pioneering woman! I had no idea about her, or the parallel women's race cir..."I agree, Kali. I was very impressed that she had the self awareness and humility to recognize when the place she could make the most impact was no longer in the driver's seat, but as a team manager. She saw an opportunity for the French racing scene and made the most of it and her situation.
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Couldn't agree with you more. Super impressive to learn about Lucy. At a time when few women could command the attention she did, and it didn't seem to register with her, she just did what she had to as you said. She operated in a man's world made crazier by the onslaught of WWII, and was very successful! Probably my favorite person in this book.
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Our good friends at Mercedes Benz produced this and it's an interesting compliment to Mark's book. Not as..."
Thanks for the helpful link Walter, amazing pics!
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Hi Barbara, thanks for joining us! What an incredible family story. You make a good point. One thing the Nazi party was good at was making sure that indoctrination began at the earliest age. Youth programs were very popular in Nazi Germany, and very successful.
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Hi Barbara! Really interesting personal story that illuminates our discussion. It's serious when they get to the children.
Kali wrote: "I admittedly knew very little about auto racing from this time, and earlier. A few months ago I watched a film called "The Great Race." It's a quirky 1965 film starring Jack Lemon and Tony Curtis. ..."Ah The Great Race. I saw that as a child. There was a mid 1960's fad for movies about that period. THose Daring Men in their Flying Machines is another one.
I hope y'all are enjoying Faster so far! Let's start some discussions on the first half of the book. The author Neal Bascomb has kindly provided a set of questions that will help get the ball rolling. These are in no certain order, so feel free to take on any of the questions that interest you. Just make sure to reference the question number with your comments.
Also, just a reminder we will be discussing the first half of the book on a live webinar next Thursday, April 30. Now on to book talk!
FASTER 1ST HALF QUESTIONS
1. How aware were you of the popularity of Grand Prix racing in Europe before opening up the pages of FASTER? Did it surprise you to learn how closely the sport of racing evolved relative to the invention of the automobile? How do you feel like it compares to such events as the Indianapolis 500 or NASCAR? Do you feel like sport is as nationalistic today?
2. What was it about the automobile—and Grand Prix racing—that so drew the attention of Hitler? How significant a role do you feel like it played in the early days of his leadership of Germany? Were you aware of how closely intertwined he was with the leadership of Mercedes as well as Ferdinand Porsche?
3. In histories of the Third Reich, we always read about the SS, Gestapo, and even Hitler Youth. But rarely does the NSKK appear. Had you ever heard of the Huhnlein and his paramilitary organization? Were you shocked to learn what a critical player it was in developing a motorized infantry?
4. To be a race car driver in the early 1930s was a glamorous, yet very deadly profession. What spurred Rene Dreyfus and Rudi Caracciola to continue to drive, even after harrowing accidents that almost killed them? How do you think they overcame their fears? Were you surprised to learn how superstitious most of the drivers were, believing in talismans and fortunetellers?
5. Had you ever heard the name Lucy Schell? Did you know much about early speedqueens like her? Was she the Danica Patrick of her day? What is important about learning of her life, much as we have of the achievements of NASA mathematician Katherine Johnson (of Hidden Figures fame)?