Dickensians! discussion
The World of Charles Dickens
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Biographies and Books About Charles Dickens and his works
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Last time I looked, The Mesmerist was available on archive.org, even though all other books by Wendy Moore were not. Ms.Moore is an excellent writer, I just read one of her books, How to Create a Perfect Wife, and really enjoyed it.
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Dickens and Travel: The Start of Modern Travel Writing"
Oh yes Lucinda Hawksley is good (speaks a lot here and is on TV, as well as writing her books). Thanks John - I didn't know of that one.
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That's a good tip, thanks Helen!
I was, at least, pleased or reassured that several other reviewers found the same problems I did with The Life and Lies of Charles Dickens.My review was very short, as I could not think of anything else beyond what I wrote and the book did not deserve more than that. But I was glad to see other reviewers go into the book more deeply and find the same troubling things I encountered.
Perhaps the new age of research and writing exists in only what can be found to be salacious. Whether true or not is besides the point.
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That's a depressing thought ... I still cling on to the hope that mud will sink to the bottom!
John wrote: "Perhaps the new age of research and writing exists in only what can be found to be salacious. Whether true or not is besides the point....."That's a horrible thought. With all the talk about "fake news" and the interest in the "fun/exciting" parts of people's lives, this sort of writing could be a realistic future....but I really hope it won't be. What a sad thought.
I hope not, too. I must say that Kelly’s book may be the most appalling book I have ever read. You cannot make suppositions like she did and have it published as a scholarly endeavor.
I was struck by the “quality” of the reviews too. Some gave ratings of 5 because new research must be more accurate than older research. Another rated the book 5 because others were being so harsh in discussing it. Each of the high rated reviews were not based on merits of the scholarship but on the reader’s perception that the author had found bad stuff that no one else had ever looked for or had ignored because she used some sort of amazing modern research methods. (I may be infantilizing too much but these reviews were not impressive.)
Sue wrote: "I was struck by the “quality” of the reviews too. Some gave ratings of 5 because new research must be more accurate than older research. Another rated the book 5 because others were being so harsh ..."I agree. One of the five star reviewers commented on my review — how could I find her book so bad? I had the impression, rightly or wrongly, that the five stars reviews were colleagues of the author.
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By the way, if any of you have come across the David Perdue "Dickens Info" page, they were asking if anyone had read it, so I linked to our discussion. I was so pleased when I got thanked - so thank you John for alerting us to what sounds a disgraceful book.
Interestingly enough, I was thinking about this sorry book the other day. It occurred to me that it is a pure example of an author starting out with a preconceived theme and then jumping and twisting and turning and doing everything possible to make that theme work. This is exactly the opposite of what good biographers do. It is also the opposite of what I was taught in school about the proper framework for expository writing and research.
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I have a sort of mini-moral quandary myself ... I have the sample on kindle, but feel I should read the whole thing before writing a review. On occasion I have abandoned a book and yet written a review, because I can tell exactly how it will go on (either faults in the writing or just not for me). In this case though, it sounds as though there is a clique of fans who either like this author, or just enjoy a sensationalist style in general. And they would be quite right in accusing me of not reading it all. But I do not want to increase the author's profile (or profits) by buying it. It isn't in my library, but equally I don't want to ask them to buy it - in any format! Hmmm! 🤔
Jean, if you really want to review it, as a public service to warn people how poor a biography it is, my suggestion would be to try to get it by interlibrary loan. To be sure, because it's a new book (just published this past October) many libraries won't loan it to anyone but their own patrons. But some libraries will; your wait time might be long until your local library finds one that will (and the fact that you need it as an e-book, so you can adjust type size, is a complicating factor) but you can probably get it eventually.
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I do use lnterlibrary loan, and since I'm visually impaired and have an "access" card, it is usually free for me in my local area (South-East) With the two other consortiums I am a member of, I might have to pay in one (I have never tried Interlibrary loan in the West Country, as l'm never sure I'd be able to return a book in time. Once I got up to my maximum 7 renewals and had to post a heavy Large Print book back. London is OK though.)
But my problem is that I think that once I have alerted the staff to a new book on Dickens, especially one with such an intriguing title (for new readers of him at any rate) the purchasing librarian may well be tempted to buy it. Looking at the broad range of new books they offer, it seems more than likely that they would purchase this one (a "popular" title) in preference to an academically solid new biography. So any theoretical good I could do by putting straight any possible slanders would probably be outweighed by that! 🙄
I think my best bet is to wait until a charity shop has it, (maybe even Oxfam or Better World Books online) buy it from there to help their funds and nobody else's, ask them to put it in a brown paper bag (!) and then ask Chris to read it to me! (Poor chap! I'm pretty sure it will be a come-down from our usual fare.)
That makes sense, Jean, and sounds like a good plan!
This is an interesting discussion. I think, Jean, you will probably find the book as others have: too much of an attack not grounded in evidence. I noticed, as did others, the writer’s use throughout the book of “perhaps” and it’s possible.” Of course if you want to add those words, then you can say anything. Those words are sprinkled like salt everywhere in the book.
And one other thing: the novelist Zadie Smith had Dickens as a character in her most recent novel The Fraud.I read that book. I think Smith is a great writer, but I must say her characterization of Dickens was unkind. He comes off as some sort of oily charmer.
As to why these writers are doing this, I can only surmise it must be jealousy. I really don’t know.
“Follow the money”. One of my graduate school professors taught me this secret to guide me in a research project. And I believe you will find it is a key in these recent, poorly researched biographies. Money. Everyone is introduced to Charles Dickens in high school of university, certainly in the US and Western Europe. Name recognition + scandal + books = movie deals and sales and money. Ugly but true.
Lee wrote: "“Follow the money”. One of my graduate school professors taught me this secret to guide me in a research project. And I believe you will find it is a key in these recent, poorly researched biograph..."I had not thought of that, Lee. It does show that there is quite a Dickens industry out there, which is a good thing. The production of Great Expectations last year on Hulu brought a new angle, in a way, to the story.
I saw an interesting book recently: Dickens and Modernity. I would like to read it eventually.
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John, oddly enough I am just finishing a review of Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist and the London Poor, (which I do not recommend, as I said in our side read) and my main objection is the overuse of “perhaps” and "it’s possible that”!
Thanks all for your wisdom on sensationalist and salacious biographies.
Girl in a Blue Dress by Gaynor Arnold is a book I mentioned in one of our chats the other day (I don't remember where). I am reading it now, and I do not recommend it. I can't imagine why it was long-listed for a Booker Award. I'll write a review as soon as I finish. I am facing a moral dilemma which all of us who write reviews must encounter: we know the book we are reading is not high quality. Do we stop reading and write the review, or finish it so that we can be completely honest.
I'm going for the "completely honest". Maybe the author will redeem herself, but I doubt it!
Lee wrote: "Girl in a Blue Dress by Gaynor Arnold is a book I mentioned in one of our chats the other day (I don't remember where). I am reading it now, and I do not recommend i..."In a somewhat similar vein, I ran into this problem with Donna Tartt’s The Secret History.
She loves Dickens and Bleak House is her favorite. But this novel, despite its general acclaim, has been a slog for me. I don’t see it as Dickensian and I don’t think I can finish. When I keep peaking at the Nook App to tell me how much I have left, then I know it’s not a book for me.
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Bionic Jean wrote: ""Dickensian" is definitely an overused word 🙄 Perhaps it's a buzz-word publishers use to sell books?"It seems like it is used to sell books and to also ascribe a greatness to a writer. But it is definitely overused and of the writers I have seen it applied to, I don’t recall them as particularly great or a reminder to me of Charles Dickens.
That last book I recall that actually reminded me of Dickens was John Irving’s The World According to Garp — and I read it over 40 years ago.
I feel the same about the word inimitable! I only associate it with Dickens and when I hear it being used in other contexts I usually laugh it off. Of course I know it’s just an adjective but for me it belongs to Dickens!🤗
I saw an interview on a YouTube with Robert Douglas-Fairhurst, who has written studies of Dickens, including Becoming Dickens: The Invention of a Novelist.It was a nice interview, and for readers new to Dickens, he recommended a particular order of books to read and explained why. Here is the order.
A Christmas Carol.
Great Expectations.
A Tale of Two Cities.
Bleak House.
Pickwick Papers.
Intriguing order. I generally like it. Harold Bloom says start with Pickwick, but I think ACC or GE is a better start.
I’ve been reading George Orwell’s essay on Dickens. I must say I am rather impressed by it. It is 50 pages in length. It is not some glossy commentary piece, but a deep study of the work (as allows anything of only 50 pages).
An excellent book about novelists is The Novel: A Biography.There are sections about Dickens, Hardy, and Collins, to name a few. Michael Schmidt is an unbelievably erudite and deeply read writer. I believe he is or was a professor at a college in England. His essay here about Dickens is a really nice overview and discusses how Dickens worked his magic as a writer.
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There are sections about Dickens, Hardy, and Collins, to name a few. Michael Schmidt is an unbelievably erudite and dee..."
Thanks for this John! I know of Michael Schmidt as an editor of several poetry books, but he is also a poet (and still with us at 79 😊). You'd probably enjoy both his poetry criticism - and perhaps his poetry collections?
Wiki has a good page on him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael... which actually mentions the book you're reading The Novel: A Biography, so it must be notable.
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It's in my mind to read this as a group some time. It fits in much better here than in the Orwell group I moderate, as it is a good lit. crit., although allows him no favours. The idea of Charles Dickens as essentially bourgeois stung a bit LOL! But he argues the case very well, and we should definitely discuss it as a group. Maybe next year 😊
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It was a nice interview,..."
That is a quirky order! I think I'd be more inclined to put readability top, which is why our first read for "Dickensians!" was David Copperfield - despite its length.
But of course I should read his reasons.
Harold Bloom is excellent of course, but I would NEVER suugest The Pickwick Papers first for a general reader - except for certain individuals. It's hilarious to me now, but I know that if I had read that one first, I would never have explored any further.
Bionic Jean wrote: "John wrote: "I saw an interview on a YouTube with Robert Douglas-Fairhurst, who has written studies of Dickens, including Becoming Dickens: The Invention of a Novelist.It was a ni..."
I would not have selected Pickwick, either. I have to go back and see why Bloom recommended Pickwick. For me, if I were asked, I’d say Great Expectations.
I seem to recall that Norrie Epstein, in her great book The Friendly Dickens, recommended Our Mutual Friend.
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But NO I'd never recommend that one first - there's just so much in it which would be missed if that was your first encounter with Charles Dickens, surely! I rate it as his best novel.
Great Expectations would also be a good entry point, I agree 😊
Since there's a lot of Dickens' body of work that I haven't read, I'm not qualified to recommend a reading order for it. That said, my own first encounter with Dickens, as a kid, was through Oliver Twist. I can say that, for a boy reader, that actually worked well (at least in my case); I could identify with Oliver, and the suspenseful and action-adventurey elements are right up a typical boy's alley. (Or, at least, they are if the boy is a confident reader and no adults prejudice him against the prose style.)In my generation, a major U.S. textbook publisher for ninth-grade (the first year of high school, in our system) English textbooks included Great Expectations as the students' introduction to the novel form in general, not just to Dickens. Probably for most of my classmates, it was their introduction to both. IMO, it works well as a Dickens introduction; it has a fairly linear plot, displays the characteristic features of his style and vision, and is a great novel in its own right.
Werner wrote: "Since there's a lot of Dickens' body of work that I haven't read, I'm not qualified to recommend a reading order for it. That said, my own first encounter with Dickens, as a kid, was through Oliver..."Interestingly enough, I was fortunate enough in my senior year of high school to finally reach Honors English. We had a very well taught class and the teacher was given latitude on the books to read. I do recall Great Expectations in that class, but it is possible I read it in an earlier class. As for the Honors class, I remember Voltaire, Dante, Jonathan Swift, and Machiavelli.
One of, if not the earliest Dickens I read was A Tale of Two Cities. I don’t think that was a good early choice and it remains my least liked of his novels. I read it for school. I read it again for a group here on GR and, while I may have taken more away from the reading, I still didn’t enjoy it as much as the other Dickens’ works I’ve read.
Sue wrote: "One of, if not the earliest Dickens I read was A Tale of Two Cities. I don’t think that was a good early choice and it remains my least liked of his novels. I read it for school. I read it again fo..."That is interesting, Sue. I have never read A Tale of Two Cities. I think part of the reason for that is I have always come across some mixed feelings about it from other readers I know.
Bionic Jean wrote: "It's strange isn't it ... we all have different ideas. I can see why the beginning of Our Mutual Friend might attract a jaded/streetwise (young?) readership, as it's just so gruesome a..."Norrie Epstein wrote that she considered OMF his most modern novel. And given what you say about the opening scenes in that book, perhaps that is part of what Epstein means.
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I can totally understand that Sue! Sadly it is chosen by schools because it is shortish.
John - yes, it is, and I think that will have been in their mind, but I'm afraid I still don't think this means it is a good introduction.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Sue wrote: "One of, if not the earliest Dickens I read was A Tale of Two Cities. I don’t think that was a good early choice and it remains my least liked of his novels. I read it for school. I read..."I wonder if many schools consider Hard Times as a good introduction to Dickens? Its length is certainly manageable, and it does have many of his larger themes that run through all of his works.
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I can see why ... as I say in my review I think Hard Times is like a little taste of Dickens ... "it is hugely enjoyable and could not be written by anyone else. Give it a try, but if it is your first Dickens, please make sure it is not the only one. You would miss out on so much" because it does not have the depth (I say a lot more LOL! But this is the thread for discussing biographies and books about Charles Dickens and his works.)
It's an intriguing and enduring question isn't it? Do feel free to raise it generally in Mrs. Dickens parlour if you like John ... or there is a suitable thread about your first encounter with Dickens LINK HERE where it might spark off a nice discusion 😊
I was reading Jane Smiley’s Charles Dickens this evening. It really is a wonderful work. I had been thinking of the words “literary sensibility” and wondered what that means. Smiley opens her book by writing that the literary sensibility of Charles Dickens is perhaps the most well documented literary sensibility in history.
What do those words mean? I was pondering that as I read. I like this book because she proposes to examine the author through his books and get to know him through those books.
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Thanks for mentioning it here.
Bionic Jean wrote: "I'd love to read that one again John - I too found it so insightful. Its a personal and thoughtful work, from an unusual point of view. Also it's not as long as some!Thanks for mentioning it here."
I am doing a reread of it, Jean, and I do find it quite good. It is more of a study of his works, in a way. But you get a sense of his station in life commensurate with each work.
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Often when I am a reading one of his novels, l look to see Jane Smiley's take on it in this book. It's always quite a few interesting pages.
John: I also read Jane Smiley's Dickens Bio recently and thought it excellent and a great introduction for new Dickens readers. I also read her non-fiction book, "13 Ways of Looking at the Novel," a lot of great insights into International Fiction from one of our best Novelist. Also, I must mention, "A Thousand Acres," her retelling of the King Lear story with an O'Henry ending! The Film is good also!
Donald wrote: "John: I also read Jane Smiley's Dickens Bio recently and thought it excellent and a great introduction for new Dickens readers. I also read her non-fiction book, "13 Ways of Looking at the Novel," ..."A King Lear story with an O. Henry ending. Now that is one I must read.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)Hard Times (other topics)
Our Mutual Friend (other topics)
Our Mutual Friend (other topics)
Great Expectations (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Jane Smiley (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
Peter Ackroyd (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Harold Bloom (other topics)
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Dickens and Travel: The Start of Modern Travel Writing