Dickensians! discussion
The World of Charles Dickens
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Biographies and Books About Charles Dickens and his works

Another Dickens related book I have also on Netgalley is Dickensland: The Curious History of Dickens's London , not a biography and looks more my sort of book.
Janelle wrote: "I actually got approved for The Life and Lies of Charles Dickens on Netgalley, I have no idea when I’ll get to it but I’ll let you know what I think :)..."
Yes! Please do Janelle! I do want to hear about these books ... occasionally there is a treasure, 😊 but it's so rare.
Yes! Please do Janelle! I do want to hear about these books ... occasionally there is a treasure, 😊 but it's so rare.

Jane Austen, the Secret Radical
I think a lot of the newer Dickens scholars or biographers do not trust Forster and thus believe too much of the life story is either made up or embellished.
John, I had already mentioned that book (comment 150) but had a different reaction to yours. It just made me think that the author set out to write a controversial book about a well-known author, rather than a factual one. But of course we do not know the quality of the work yet.
Did you read John Forster's biography with us? I don't think you have actually joined any of our group reads yet, but if you know the work then do add your thoughts on it in the threads if you like. We did not analyse it chapter by chapter as we do the novels, but each volume does have its own thread.
I honestly don't see how John Forster could have fabricated almost any of the details of Charles Dickens's life! So much of it is documented elsewhere ... Charles Dickens was an inveterate letter-writer for a start. I just have the 3 volumes of letters edited by his daughters, but the Pilgrim letters (I think one of our members is lucky enough to have these - they are too pricey for me!) go to at least a dozen volumes. Also, many of the occasions John Forster describes can be corroborated by other friends, or newspaper articles from the time. He also includes private letters from Charles Dickens to himself, and also parts of works Charles Dickens had omitted.
I know how highly you rate American Notes For General Circulation, John, (and hope you will lead a read of it some time for us 😊) So I'm sure you would be interested in the parts which Charles Dickens wrote whilst in the USA, but which John Forster advised him not to include in American Notes For General Circulation, fearing a public backlash! They are letters sent at the time of Charles Dickens's visit, whereas as you will know, the American Notes For General Circulation was written later, from the verbatim notes. Quite a lot of those "deleted scenes" are included, and would be a great enrichment of such a group read.
This is just one example of all the dozens of John Forster's descriptions of editorial changes. He tells of advice he gave to Charles Dickens in minute detail, as well as recording ideas which Charles Dickens himself had, which never made it to print. We often examine this sort of thing when we have a group read of a novel. So not only does The Life of Charles Dickens have the ring of truth, but much can be substantiated by other documents.
We know of course John Forster did not tell a "warts and all" story. These sensational biographies are a modern phenomenon. For example, he did not include anything much about Nelly Ternan. He did though, refer to Charles Dickens's break-up with his wife Catherine, largely by quoting what Charles Dickens himself had written to the newspapers. This is a bit of a cop-out, but after all it must have been a terribly difficult part of the bio to write, and obviously not one Charles Dickens would have expected his friend to reveal - or pass judgement on. It was not in his remit, if you like. I am not at all surprised John Forster avoided describing this private aspect of his friend's life. How could he have recorded it, without conveying his private judgement, and thereby influencing our opinion? And these were very different times, just 4 years after Charles Dickens had died. People did not have to know all the details about celebrities' private lives.
John Forster was in a unique position, knowing the man inside and out - and is the only biographer who knew him personally. I am frankly amazed to hear that anyone questions the authenticity of John Forster's work! Certainly the Dickens Society would be shocked at this calumny. We are talking about a man who was a respected historian in his own right, and selfessly accepted his best friend's request to be his biographer. It was John Forster to whom Charles Dickens entrusted all his unfinished writings, he who was commissioned to do with them as he would, and only he whom Charles Dickens would ever listen to, in all his troubled dealings with people, right from his early days with publishers and so on to the end of his life.
No, I think you'll find that Dickens scholars acknowledge the huge debt we all owe to John Forster. If Helena Kelly starts by questioning the core biography, then however good a writer she is, I don't think she'll get very far with that theory!
I will let you know if this book makes a mention in the Dickens Society's journal next year though. You never know, we might have got the wrong end of the stick about it.
Did you read John Forster's biography with us? I don't think you have actually joined any of our group reads yet, but if you know the work then do add your thoughts on it in the threads if you like. We did not analyse it chapter by chapter as we do the novels, but each volume does have its own thread.
I honestly don't see how John Forster could have fabricated almost any of the details of Charles Dickens's life! So much of it is documented elsewhere ... Charles Dickens was an inveterate letter-writer for a start. I just have the 3 volumes of letters edited by his daughters, but the Pilgrim letters (I think one of our members is lucky enough to have these - they are too pricey for me!) go to at least a dozen volumes. Also, many of the occasions John Forster describes can be corroborated by other friends, or newspaper articles from the time. He also includes private letters from Charles Dickens to himself, and also parts of works Charles Dickens had omitted.
I know how highly you rate American Notes For General Circulation, John, (and hope you will lead a read of it some time for us 😊) So I'm sure you would be interested in the parts which Charles Dickens wrote whilst in the USA, but which John Forster advised him not to include in American Notes For General Circulation, fearing a public backlash! They are letters sent at the time of Charles Dickens's visit, whereas as you will know, the American Notes For General Circulation was written later, from the verbatim notes. Quite a lot of those "deleted scenes" are included, and would be a great enrichment of such a group read.
This is just one example of all the dozens of John Forster's descriptions of editorial changes. He tells of advice he gave to Charles Dickens in minute detail, as well as recording ideas which Charles Dickens himself had, which never made it to print. We often examine this sort of thing when we have a group read of a novel. So not only does The Life of Charles Dickens have the ring of truth, but much can be substantiated by other documents.
We know of course John Forster did not tell a "warts and all" story. These sensational biographies are a modern phenomenon. For example, he did not include anything much about Nelly Ternan. He did though, refer to Charles Dickens's break-up with his wife Catherine, largely by quoting what Charles Dickens himself had written to the newspapers. This is a bit of a cop-out, but after all it must have been a terribly difficult part of the bio to write, and obviously not one Charles Dickens would have expected his friend to reveal - or pass judgement on. It was not in his remit, if you like. I am not at all surprised John Forster avoided describing this private aspect of his friend's life. How could he have recorded it, without conveying his private judgement, and thereby influencing our opinion? And these were very different times, just 4 years after Charles Dickens had died. People did not have to know all the details about celebrities' private lives.
John Forster was in a unique position, knowing the man inside and out - and is the only biographer who knew him personally. I am frankly amazed to hear that anyone questions the authenticity of John Forster's work! Certainly the Dickens Society would be shocked at this calumny. We are talking about a man who was a respected historian in his own right, and selfessly accepted his best friend's request to be his biographer. It was John Forster to whom Charles Dickens entrusted all his unfinished writings, he who was commissioned to do with them as he would, and only he whom Charles Dickens would ever listen to, in all his troubled dealings with people, right from his early days with publishers and so on to the end of his life.
No, I think you'll find that Dickens scholars acknowledge the huge debt we all owe to John Forster. If Helena Kelly starts by questioning the core biography, then however good a writer she is, I don't think she'll get very far with that theory!
I will let you know if this book makes a mention in the Dickens Society's journal next year though. You never know, we might have got the wrong end of the stick about it.


The archives show that quite a number of Forster’s facts are incorrect or inaccurate. He gets dates wrong and sometimes names, too. He makes no reference to events we know took place. Details seem to be ignored or invented. People are missing from the story.
Was this simply because Forster was not a very good biographer, or was he continuing to facilitate Dickens as he had been doing for years? While claiming to reveal the truth about his friend, was he actually helping to maintain Dickens’ lies?

At the end of the day, I came out of this book unsure what I could trust as accurate and feeling very much that I got a side that had set out to prove theories the author had come up with, rather than following where the evidence may lead.
Dear oh dear! Thanks John.
So we get mudslinging at two eminent Victorians for the price of one. 😁 A book to get out of the library in the future out of interest, perhaps, but as you say, she has a "theme". She will be hard pushed to back it up with anything from unspecified "archives".
So we get mudslinging at two eminent Victorians for the price of one. 😁 A book to get out of the library in the future out of interest, perhaps, but as you say, she has a "theme". She will be hard pushed to back it up with anything from unspecified "archives".
I'm also now wondering about the critical reviews of the book on Jane Austen i.e. whether that one was academically rigorous, and what the Janeites thought of it!

So we get mudslinging at two eminent Victorians for the price of one. 😁 A book to get out of the library in the future out of interest, perhaps, but as you say, she has ..."
Jean, if I ever do read this book, I would like to read it as a way of studying how well or poorly an author proceeds. The reviewer I quoted also pointed out the excessive use of the word “perhaps.” When you have to frame things in “perhaps” then academically rigorous is not happening.
I like to think that as far as biographies go, I am only critical of the ones deserving criticism. I have only read a small portion of this book, so maybe a study of it is in order. I would be studying not Dickens, but how he is written about.
John wrote: "When you have to frame things in “perhaps” then academically rigorous just is not happening ..."
Absolutely! This reminds me of Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist and the London Poor, where the author went off in flights of fancy. So much of what she wrote was either cribbed from others, or worse: mere speculation. "Perhaps" or "I like to think" featured a lot there too and made my heart sink.
Your approach sounds very fair!
Absolutely! This reminds me of Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist and the London Poor, where the author went off in flights of fancy. So much of what she wrote was either cribbed from others, or worse: mere speculation. "Perhaps" or "I like to think" featured a lot there too and made my heart sink.
Your approach sounds very fair!

Me too Sue. The great danger of course comes with folk who know nothing of Charles Dickens's life, and will treat a speculative book as gospel. There are some excellent biographies around (based on John Forster but shorter!) by authors such as Michael Slater, Peter Ackroyd and Claire Tomalin for those who want something a bit more recent. Plus there are those which concentrate more on how his writing related to his life, such as those by Jane Smiley, Simon Callow, A.N. Wilson and John Mullan. I even have books which concentrate on his readings, or his magic shows! There really are a plethora of great books about Charles Dickens 😊

The Friendly Dickens
Thankfully I saw fit to bring this book with me for my move. It is highly readable and enjoyable. A nice walk through the life and books that is interspersed with interviews and various sundry details about adaptations and so forth.

I will start it this weekend.

I will start it this weekend."
As a Harry Potter fan, when I read that title, I couldn't help but think of the fictional "biography," The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore by Rita Skewer, that figures in the last book of the series. As her symbolic last name implies, Rita's a muckraking reporter for the wizarding community's newspaper, The Daily Prophet. Her "biography" proves to be largely a hit piece of slander by innuendo and jaundiced conjecture. (I have to wonder if the similarity of title doesn't also indicate a similarity of quality. :-) )

I will start it this weekend."
As a Harry Potter fan, when I read that title, ..."
Werner, I cannot stand the title and felt sheepish to the point of annoyed to list it as one of the books I am reading.
This book may be no better than Rita Skewer’s, but I am trying to keep an open mind. I want to go at it objectively.
When I was at my small, private college in New Jersey many moons ago, I did take at least one class on Research and Expository Writing. Perhaps that class will help 42 years later.
John wrote: "I cannot stand the title and felt sheepish to the point of annoyed to list it as one of the books I am reading ..."
😂 Nevertheless, I'm glad you are our "guinea pig" for this at the moment (and I know Janelle will also be sampling this one) as I'm aware how analytical and objective you are, and you will indeed try to keep an open mind 😊
Werner, yes the title is deliberately provocative - even confrontational - isn't it, and reminds me of taboid newspapers here 🙄 The author did go to Oxford University though, so we have to hope it is not "a hit piece of slander by innuendo and jaundiced conjecture" like the one by Rita Skeeter. (I quite like your Freudian slip there by the way!) Perhaps her editor suggested it (I've no idea).
Since John mentioned a sample, I realised that it must be on kindle so will download the sample. It will not have the "honour" to be placed on my shelves though, unless I decide to write something about that sample.
I'm also disgusted by the price ... £25 in hardback is pretty steep, but what is disproportionate is the kindle price: £13! For an electronic download? The most I will ever pay, (for books which are hard to get) is £5. Academic kindle books are sometimes notoriously expensive, presumably because the readership take-up is very small, but somehow I doubt if a book titled The Life and Lies of Charles Dickens is going to be very scholarly!
I'm kind of hoping I will be able to eat my words on this. But when Iput in "The Life and Lies of Charles Dickens" on Amazon, it helpfully suggested "The Life and Lies of Jimmy Saville" full title In Plain Sight: The Life and Lies of Jimmy Savile first! Jimmy Saville was a popular entertainer, TV personality and fund raiser for many children's charities; part of people's childhood for maybe 30 years. But he was later proved to have been a manipulative child abuser, who groomed his victims. English people know how notorious he was, and to have this connection made through a book's name, however subliminally, is a bit much 😥
😂 Nevertheless, I'm glad you are our "guinea pig" for this at the moment (and I know Janelle will also be sampling this one) as I'm aware how analytical and objective you are, and you will indeed try to keep an open mind 😊
Werner, yes the title is deliberately provocative - even confrontational - isn't it, and reminds me of taboid newspapers here 🙄 The author did go to Oxford University though, so we have to hope it is not "a hit piece of slander by innuendo and jaundiced conjecture" like the one by Rita Skeeter. (I quite like your Freudian slip there by the way!) Perhaps her editor suggested it (I've no idea).
Since John mentioned a sample, I realised that it must be on kindle so will download the sample. It will not have the "honour" to be placed on my shelves though, unless I decide to write something about that sample.
I'm also disgusted by the price ... £25 in hardback is pretty steep, but what is disproportionate is the kindle price: £13! For an electronic download? The most I will ever pay, (for books which are hard to get) is £5. Academic kindle books are sometimes notoriously expensive, presumably because the readership take-up is very small, but somehow I doubt if a book titled The Life and Lies of Charles Dickens is going to be very scholarly!
I'm kind of hoping I will be able to eat my words on this. But when Iput in "The Life and Lies of Charles Dickens" on Amazon, it helpfully suggested "The Life and Lies of Jimmy Saville" full title In Plain Sight: The Life and Lies of Jimmy Savile first! Jimmy Saville was a popular entertainer, TV personality and fund raiser for many children's charities; part of people's childhood for maybe 30 years. But he was later proved to have been a manipulative child abuser, who groomed his victims. English people know how notorious he was, and to have this connection made through a book's name, however subliminally, is a bit much 😥
Jenny wrote: "Those sound quite interesting Jean! I'd love to read more about Dickens and his magic shows!"
My copy of this one is signed 😊 I bought it after a recent talk by the author: Charles Dickens Magician: Conjuring in Life, Letters and Literature by Ian Keable. It's a fun book, and describes the conjuring tricks Dickens invented and performed under his alias.
Here are two others: The Charles Dickens Show: An Account of His Public Readings, 1858-1870 by Raymund Fitzsimons and Charles Dickens and His Performing Selves Dickens and the Public Readings by Malcolm Andrews. The latter one is a bit more involved.
My copy of this one is signed 😊 I bought it after a recent talk by the author: Charles Dickens Magician: Conjuring in Life, Letters and Literature by Ian Keable. It's a fun book, and describes the conjuring tricks Dickens invented and performed under his alias.
Here are two others: The Charles Dickens Show: An Account of His Public Readings, 1858-1870 by Raymund Fitzsimons and Charles Dickens and His Performing Selves Dickens and the Public Readings by Malcolm Andrews. The latter one is a bit more involved.

😂 Nevertheless, I'm glad you are our "guinea pig" for this at the m..."
Yes, my Nook download from Barnes & Noble for this book was almost double the regular pricing for new releases. It is just another knock on this book, unfortunately.

You're right, Rita's last name is indeed Skeeter (I didn't have the book in front of me, and it's been a while since I read the series)! So, yes, that probably was a Freudian slip. :-)
Since she likes to "skewer" people, I thought that was quite good! But then the repeated vowel sounds are good too.

I went to the Epilogue and wanted to see what she concluded. Here is what she wrote:
A liar who has succeeded in making us believe his lies for a century and a half. This is Charles Dickens.

Thank you John - and I think I should say well done! I'm sure Goodreads readers will appreciate a fair and objective review, and be grateful for the time you have spent on this (when you could have been reading Dickens!)



Thanks Sue. I agree with your sentiments and it is what I found with this book. My review is rather pithy because I did not feel I could say much more that would add anything helpful. I would rather not try to go at the book in parts and pieces because its entire premise was based on what the author believed, not what she found. If I was the chief executive of a publishing company, I would have rejected this book.
Someone named Rachel N did a thorough review of it. Her thoughts mirrored mine. If anyone wishes to read more details about this travesty of a book, I think Rachel N nailed it.


Sue, I read that other review several times and found it bizarre. He thinks Forster “deserves to have the stuffing kicked out of him.”
I can only surmise that this guy must be Helena Kelly’s uncle. He writes that he knew nothing of the book, but immediately states that modern scholarship corrects all the lazy work of previous biographers. If that is not shilling I don’t know what is.
I have read a few biographies of Dickens and went into the book hoping for an objective study based on some new evidence. I found nothing of the sort.

I just came across this Dickens and Prince: A Particular Kind of Genius by Nick Hornby
An interesting comparison, anybody read it?

I just came across this Dickens and Prince: A Particular Kind of Genius by Nick Hornby
An interesting comparison, anybody ..."
I have seen that book, but have not read it. I do not know much about Prince and I think I would find myself only half appreciating the effort.
Janelle wrote: "Well I’m not in a rush to get to that one!..."
LOL - I've been thinking about your possible "predicament" with this, Janelle! If you are approved for a book on NetGalley, do you have to read it? Does it affect your status with them if you change your mind/can't fit it in, so they aren't keen to send you any more to review?
(Of course I was assuming this has put you off, but for all I knew it might have intrigued you even more!)
I have to say the Nick Hornby one sounds kinda fun! He's a novelist after all, and probably knows that people will read his book for entertainment, and not take it too seriously! If it happens to come my way, well, maybe.
LOL - I've been thinking about your possible "predicament" with this, Janelle! If you are approved for a book on NetGalley, do you have to read it? Does it affect your status with them if you change your mind/can't fit it in, so they aren't keen to send you any more to review?
(Of course I was assuming this has put you off, but for all I knew it might have intrigued you even more!)
I have to say the Nick Hornby one sounds kinda fun! He's a novelist after all, and probably knows that people will read his book for entertainment, and not take it too seriously! If it happens to come my way, well, maybe.

My pal runs the Patrick Hamilton Goodreads group, and Nick Hornby himself once said that Hamilton is the “missing piece of motorway” (that would be ‘highway, US friends) between Charles Dickens and Martin Amis. As a writer describing London, his books frequently inhabited by society’s misfits, I hold Hamilton in the same esteem as Dickens. I’m much less enamoured of Amis!

LOL - I've been thinking about your possible "predicament" with this, Janelle! If you are approved for a book on NetGalley, do you ha..."
Jean ,you can say you’re not giving feedback and why. I still might read this one and if I can’t finish, I’ll just say so in my review. I never had a problem getting approved for books even though my percentage is around 67%, you’re supposed to keep your percentage at 80% or higher (booksreviewed/books approved). I tend to over request 😂 so I don’t mind getting declined! Although I am a bit annoyed I didn’t get Prophet Song, the Booker winner.
Oh that's really interesting thanks Janelle!
I'll never be able to do it (can't get round to the books I want to read anyway!) and it's not really my cup of tea. But I did wonder once how to advise/console a friend who was panicking because she had promised to read and review too many. I strongly suspected there must be some leeway before you got thrown out, as anything can happen in people's personal lives, but she thought not.
I'll never be able to do it (can't get round to the books I want to read anyway!) and it's not really my cup of tea. But I did wonder once how to advise/console a friend who was panicking because she had promised to read and review too many. I strongly suspected there must be some leeway before you got thrown out, as anything can happen in people's personal lives, but she thought not.

I find that rather shocking and wonder about the reviewing world. I would point anyone to a recent biography of Dickens by A.N. Wilson that does not in any sense gloss over the harsher parts of Dickens’ life while giving a fair reading of the life in total.
The Mystery of Charles Dickens
When I next go to the museum I will see if it is in their shop. A.N. Wilson's excellent book certainly is, and I think there has been something about that in "The Dickensian" journal.
They are quite good at reviewing new books about Dickens, and mentioning new authors of these, but these are basically a scholarly group of people, so they only look at the good ones!
They are quite good at reviewing new books about Dickens, and mentioning new authors of these, but these are basically a scholarly group of people, so they only look at the good ones!
I'll actually be in that road on Monday ... but that's one of the days the museum is closed, as I found out last week 🤔 Somehow I didn't feel the Neurology hospital would appreciate a change of appointment for that reason 😂 But I definitely want to go back before February, to see the current exhibition on Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins.
Last time I was there they had most of the current books on Charles Dickens, including The Mesmerist: The Society Doctor Who Held Victorian London Spellbound by Wendy Moore. It looked a straightforward enough read, written almost like a novel. For those who would have liked to read Dickens and Mesmerism: The Hidden Springs of Fiction by Fred Kaplan which is so difficult to get now, this one published in 2017 might be worth a look. It was more of an overview though, without the analytical content. Still, I wish I'd seen it before our read of Oliver Twist! And I may read it as it's on kindle as well 😊
Last time I was there they had most of the current books on Charles Dickens, including The Mesmerist: The Society Doctor Who Held Victorian London Spellbound by Wendy Moore. It looked a straightforward enough read, written almost like a novel. For those who would have liked to read Dickens and Mesmerism: The Hidden Springs of Fiction by Fred Kaplan which is so difficult to get now, this one published in 2017 might be worth a look. It was more of an overview though, without the analytical content. Still, I wish I'd seen it before our read of Oliver Twist! And I may read it as it's on kindle as well 😊

I know for a fact that some publishers pressure their authors to write favorable blurbs or reviews for books they publish by other authors. I also know that some authors pay reviewers for good reviews (in the U.S., the reviewers are required to disclose such arrangements, but some no doubt evade the requirement).
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The better modern biographers (e.g. Claire Tomalin) do credit this research, but the worst books have a lot of speculation and read more like faction. As you say John "What these authors do is find one new document. Then the claim is made and it sounds like thousands of new documents have been unearthed."
They can be read as entertainment, but like you, I am extremely suspicious of the motives for publishing this one. It reminds me of the read of Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist and the London Poor which I inadvertently inflicited on everybody as a side read. I was appalled to find the author boasting about "discovering" the workhouse near where Charles Dickens had lived as a child. She described in great detail about her painstaking research and the hours she had spent poring over maps ... but it was all unnecessary because in his much, much earlier book The DICKENS COUNTRY., F.G. Kitton describes it - and includes a contemporary photo! The author was a Dickens scholar, the book was published in 1905 and has run to many editions. It's even on kindle.
I could go on about some other recent books which have made me indignant ...so am not going to rush to read this one.