Dickensians! discussion
David Copperfield - Group Read 1
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May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 1-14
Katy wrote: "I feel like when Dickens is describing a person, especially their physical characteristics, the characters are more like caricatures. But overall the characters seem very real to me. I could see this story happening in real life.Great observation! The descriptions and the names are exactly what makes the characters seem like caricatures...but then Dickens flips that on its head and gives us a person who moves and acts and speaks like people we might know, and the character becomes real.
What a skill! Most authors, once they have created the flat character, could never redeem him.
Mod
"Salem House, which was enclosed with a high brick wall, and looked very dull ...
Salem House was a square brick building with wings; of a bare and unfurnished appearance.
although were told there are just 45 pupils. Perhaps it's a case of parents beware!
Mod
In a small way, this reminds me of a teachers' trick, to put a child in their place by making them appear ridiculous to the class - getting the class "on their side". I've always found this to be a cheap, rather despicable trick, often used by teachers I think shouldn't really be doing that job! Usually it's used by weak, ineffective teachers, in an attempt to assert themselves. Or it can be used by those who have an inflated ego. But however it's used, it benefits nobody, and can do harm. Kids always remember what they have been laughed at for :( So for me, Mr Creakle is the logical conclusion of that type of behaviour.
"Dickens knows what it is to have the cruel men in charge of the children, doesn't he."
Yes it's definitely a recurring theme. As well as Mr Bumble, who was really Charles Dickens's first attempt at such, there is another even more similar tyrant. He's also a headmaster like Mr Creakle, and is called Wackford Squeers of "Dotheboys Hall", and appears in Charles Dickens's third novel, Nicholas Nickleby.
(Both Wackford Squeers and Dotheboys Hall were also based on a real person and a real place, by the way, but perhaps that's for another thread on another day :) )
This was a good introduction to the characters at the school. Mr. Creakle is a tyrant. His wife and daughter are as cowed as Davy's mother. All three live under "firm" hands of oppression. It's a kind of oppression that saps strength and inclination. It leaves one weak and unable to act. It's a heavy load for the sufferer to carry.
Steerforth is the oldest boy, so it seems natural that he lords it over the littler boys a bit. He doesn't seem to be malicious, but is "opportunistic", seeing opportunities and making them work to his advantage.
Davy has lost his money (sadly) but the money did buy a chance to get to know his fellow schoolboys in a more intimate fashion than the schoolyard or classroom would have. Perhaps this will help him feel a part of a group (family) in a small way.
I had the impression that Mr Murdstone and Mr Creakle were friends, or at least acquaintances. So Mr Murdstone is continuing his "firmness" campaign by sending David to Mr Creakle's school. Mr Creakle is terrorizing his family--he drove off his son, and his wife and daughter live in fear. He seems like a worse version of Mr Murdstone who rules over Clara who is fearful.I liked Mr Mell. He was kind to David, bringing him to his mother's workhouse for breakfast. I felt sorry for him since he is so poorly paid that he has no money for shoes. I'm hoping he can be a bit of a father figure for David.
Connie, I agree. I think Creakle and Murdstone know each other. At first I thought that perhaps Murdstone had been a boy at the school but from Creakles history, he didn't run the school that many years ago when Murdstone was a boy. Therefore, I think they were shady business partners or acquaintances. They both seem to have the same tendency to depress more vulnerable, weaker (?....or innocent) people. They are bullies in the worst sense.
You weren’t kidding about Chapter 6 being short. I thought back to Davy’s imaginings when he first saw the boys’ names carved on the door. Steerforth was going to pull his hair and Davy was just filled with dread at coming face to face with the other boys. That’s the way it is in life, the things we dread most end up being less of a problem than the things we don’t foresee. I do like the name Steerforth, though. Only time will tell if he will steer Davy in the right direction.
I love reading this book one chapter at a time because it’s closer to the Victorian experience of reading it in installments. Sort of like reading a Victorian soap opera.
I view Mr. Murdstone as a loathsome character. Even the grown men in Lowestoft were cautious around him. I’m suspicious of his motives in bringing his sister to Blunderstone as a sort of housekeeper. Maybe I’m wrong but I had the impression that he really brought his sister along to make sure Clara was compliant with his rules. We’ll see what happens. I haven’t a clue as this is my first read.
I was so relieved that the boys did not make fun of Davy and the sign. And I think the exact same thing as Pamela about Steerforth and Tommy Traddles. Jean, about Mr Murdstone, I had thought of him as being sadistic. But maybe he is a product of the time. It gives me something else to think about. But I still hate him.
I have hopes for Mr. Scott helping Davy out. He seems very nice. It is good to have little rays of sunshine here and there.
Oh my gosh. I missed this page of comments before I posted. I will read them soon. And I think mixed up the characters Mr Mill and Mr Scott. ......back in a bit.
Mod
"I heard that Mr. Creakle, on account of certain religious opinions he held, was one of the Elect and Chosen - terms which certainly none of us understood in the least then if any body understands them now - and that the man with the wooden leg (whose name was Tungay) was another. I heard that the man with the wooden leg had preached (Traddles' father, according to Traddles, had positively heard him) and had frightened women into fits by raving about a Pit he said he saw, with I don't know how many billions and trillions of pretty babies born for no other purpose than to be cast into it. I heard that Mr. Creakle's son doubted the clear-sightedness of the man with the wooden leg and had once held some remonstrance with his father about the discipline of the school on an occasion of its being very cruelly exercized, and was supposed to have objected, besides, that the Elect had no business to ill-use his mother. I heard that Mr. Creakle had turned him out of doors in consequence, and that it had nearly broken Mrs. and Miss Creakle's hearts."
So that does fill the story in a bit more.
As for the dark hints - the foreshadowing which sometimes we feel goes too far ...
In Charles Dickens's original draft, the final sentence about Steerforth which I quoted did not exist. Instead he had written :
"... in the garden that I dreamed of - the garden that I picked up shells and pebbles in, with little Em'ly, all night."
Neither are specific. but perhaps the revised version is more pointed.
We seem a long way away from Peggotty and Barkiss, not to mention all Davy's other friends in Yarmouth, now.
Mod
There was a reason such schools were cheap, and the worst of them (though not this one) even advertised "No Holidays", as a coded message to say that the boys sent there never need be seen by their parents again. They were often unwanted children, and we know that Mr Murdstone views Davy as an "an encumbrance" he had to take on, in addition to the "bewitching little widow".
Mr Murdstone is not likely to have wanted to spend much money on Davy's education.
Mod
1. A wife's former money and possessions transferred to her husband on marriage. So Clara getting those 2 half-crowns was tricky, and she could no longer insist on a better school for Davy.
2. Divorce was not an easy option. In fact before the mid-19th century the only way of obtaining a full divorce which allowed re-marriage was by a Private Act of Parliament. The only reason for Parliament granting a divorce, was adultery. In addition, wives could only initiate this if the adultery was compounded by life-threatening cruelty.
Costs were so high that even Charles Dickens himself decided against it, once he had looked into the possibility. Only the very wealthy could afford to end their marriages this way. Aunt Betsey Trotwood had a separation by mutual consent, and also must have had a lot of money!
3. Mothers had no rights to their children, even in cases of domestic violence, up to 1839. Even after that, they had to petition the court for custody or access.
4. The needs of children, including protection from cruelty, were not considered at all in Law at this time.
Jean, thanks. I wondered about the legalities. But did not realize just how bad it was.
Mod
We're noticing parallels with Charles Dickens's other novels, but do you remember me saying that he would have read Jane Eyre, as that was published only two years earlier?
Well don't you think this introduction to a harsh, to be feared school, is very similar to the early chapters of Jane Eyre, when she first goes to Lowood School?
I remember the early chapters of Jane Eyre. And the school was awful. The "teachers" were really bad. (I abandoned Jane Eyre. Not my cup of tea.)
Mod
(Sorry - my obsession is showing! )
So far, I am !oving David Copperfield. Just the right mix of good and bad. And my heart feels for young Davy. I also love the that Dickens refers to David as Davy at this stage. I assume that will change as he grows.
Mod
In a way, that horrible sign on David's back and Tommy's reaction to it may have been a good thing. With a sign like that, David would not be considered a "goody-goody". Tommy seems to be a genuinely caring person and will be a good friend for David.
I think that Murdstone and Creakle are both horrible. Clara is like a prisoner in the Murdstone household and it's her house. I can see her fading like a flower in that atmosphere.
The two tyrants, Murdstone and Creakle, do know each other, and apparently hold each other in high esteem, according to Creakle. It's kind of comical that the peg-legged gentleman acts as a parrot (some piratical imagery!) for Creakle. I do think that Steerforth, despite his friendship and patronage of Davy, bears watching--relieving him of all of his money to have a party was a smooth and underhanded trick, but it did undoubtedly help ease his inclusion into the group. I believe Traddles has as big or bigger a part in this, though, given that his intervention on Davy's behalf is on Davy's first meeting with the other boys. That first meeting, with Davy's stupid sign setting him up to be a target from the get-go, could have gone so badly and established Davy as the butt of pranks and bullying from then on, is utterly defused by Traddles treating it as a big joke, one in which they are laughing with Davy instead of at him.As far as Clara's marriage to Murdstone goes, I'm surprised that she stayed single as long as she did. A young, pretty widow with a nice home and a fairly comfortable income, apparently (she's not wealthy, but there is no mention of poverty or want) would be a desirable prize, indeed, for many men. In addition, she has proven herself able to bear children, although the one she has proves to be unwanted baggage for her new husband. I think he genuinely cares for her in his own twisted way, but he is compelled to dominate those in his power completely, to force them into the molds he has deemed right for them, no matter how much they resist. I think the difference between him and Mr. Creakle is that Murdstone has persuaded himself that his actions are for the good of his victim, that he is helping them to become better. He's not, of course; and he secretly enjoys the power he is able to wield. With Davy, it's more simple--he doesn't really want to raise another man's child, so his enjoyment in mistreating him is more open. With his wife, though, he has to pretend to himself that he is bettering her in some way. Creakle makes no such pretense. He prides himself on being a bully and inflicting pain.
I really do wish Miss Betsey Trotwood would have stayed around and reconciled herself to her disappointment over having a nephew instead of a niece--she sounds as though she would have been more than a match for Murdstone and driven him off in a New York minute!
Mod
This is the bit which makes the relationship between the two tyrants clear:
"‘I have the happiness of knowing your father-in-law,’ whispered Mr. Creakle, taking me by the ear; ‘and a worthy man he is, and a man of a strong character. He knows me, and I know him. Do YOU know me? Hey?’ said Mr. Creakle, pinching my ear with ferocious playfulness."
And I found the added information (my post 241) about Mr Creakle's family, which Charles Dickens decided to cut out, makes it perfectly clear why his wife and daughter are so "thin and quiet.
Rosemarie - I agree, and for all those who also like Traddles ... Knowing who he was based on (Talfourd: a barrister, judge, M.P. and playwright, see my earlier post 247) makes us hope that Traddles will indeed be a steady and loyal friend.
Bionic Jean wrote: "In case anyone is wondering about the legal position at this time.1. A wife's former money and possessions transferred to her husband on marriage. So Clara getting those 2 half-crowns was tricky,..."
Knowing this I think the way Clara acts is understandable. Once a woman was married she and her child or children were totally under the control of her husband. Even if Clara had been able to obtain a divorce she would have to live in total poverty because everything she owned would have now been her husband's. Since there was no public assistance her existence would have been pretty wretched. It is no wonder that she just wanted to keep her husband happy.
Mod
It also occurs to me that she had waited a long time to remarry. Davy's father died when his mother was expecting him, and the other clear indication of date was when Davy was sent away to school at 8 and a half years old.
Even with a generous estimate, Mr Murdstone's courtship couldn't be more than 2 years (and I suspect only a few months, as he thought her so "bewitching"!) And if we allow a year or so for Davy to be at his lessons under Mr Murdstone's instruction, then Clara has been without a husband for 5 years.
That's a long time to remain on the marriage market, for a pretty young widow. She must have been aware that this might be her only opportunity, and at first it looked to her like a good one :(
Mod
This chapter describes David's first term at Salem House. ("First half" refer to half a calendar year, at this sort of school). We learn just how vicious Mr Creakle is with the boys, lashing out with his cane at every opportunity. David does not have the sign on his back for very long now, because it would protect his back from the "fleshy cuts" Mr Creakle enjoys making, by thrashing. Tommy Traddles gets the most beatings, but cries silently, and distracts himself by drawing skeletons. He even takes the blame once, instead of Steerforth, because he is so loyal.
(This is actually from a "Typhoo tea" card in the1930s! "Tea cards" used to be given away with every packet of loose tea.) Not a major artist but I love this depiction of Tommy Traddles. You can see his "frill" instead of a collar. David has to "change his frill" when he has visitors. At that time, the shirts would not be washed every day, but only the removable frills - or collars - and cuffs.)
Steerforth asks David to read to him, from the adventure books David loves, and Traddles enjoys watching and play-acting. David receives a parcel from Peggotty, containing a cake, oranges and cowslip wine. He admires Steerforth even more when Steerforth says he may have all the wine for himself, (to quench his thirst whilst reading) rather than share it.
We see another side to Steerforth, when he insults Mr Mell, and directly causes the teacher to be dismissed. The younger boys take their lead from him, except for Traddles, who recognises the injustice, and feels sorry for Mr Mell.
David has two visitors: Dan Peggotty and Sam. He rapidly introduces Steerforth, who uses his charm to capture their admiration. We learn that everyone is well back at David's home ("oncomoon" means "uncommonly good" or very well) and that Little Em'ly is growing to be a lady. Davy suggest that Steerforth might like to visit their boathouse, some time.
Mod
That's what stays with me from this chapter :(
Just to put things in context ...
A "gentleman" in English society at this time, would not work. He would have inherited his money. The exceptions were doctors, lawyers, clergymen, schoolmasters and financiers, all of whom were tolerated, although not to be respected quite as much. Tradesmen for instance, clerks and other working people, were looked down on.
It's hard to us to remember what a shameful thing "charity" was thought to be, in Victorian times. Poor people were often very proud. I can remember this from my own grandmother! They lived in fear of dying in the workhouse, and dreaded having to accept "charity". One character in a Dickens novel who had been strong and capable all her life, walked to her death in search of work, rather than accept the charity which would have gladly been given to her, by her wealthier friends.
The moneyed classes too, such as Steerforth, are conscious that they must never be tainted by charity. Steerforth is proud and vain, and cannot accept the position of having to learn from someone he despises. Kinder men in his position may not have mentioned it, but they would still feel it to be a slur.
In his case, he despises Mr Mell, and this is the result.
With working men who keep to their proper status in society however, such as Dan Peggotty, Steerforth is all charm and charisma. He has:
"a kind of enchantment ... some inborn power of attraction besides (which I think a few people possess), to have carried a spell with him to which it was a natural weakness to yield, and which not many persons could withstand."
Steerforth views Mr Mell as a kind of pretender. This is how Steerforth feels the world should be, with everyone in their proper place. I personally doubt very much whether he intends to send any money to Mr Mell and his mother; it's rather that he feels he might lose his popularity with the boys, if he comes across as anything less than a generous benefactor.
What a snake! I do love the complex layers of Steerforth, but like Tommy Traddles a lot more!
Mod
That's exactly how it is! LOL I can imagine Charles Dickens would have loved to write a soap :) I'm really enjoying reading it with everyone a chapter at a time too. And to think we have the luxury of one a day, not having to wait a month for the next three! Did you notice how today he cannily inserted a bit about the Peggotty family, (the cake from home, and then the visit from Yarmouth) just in case we had forgotten them?!
Jean: I can imagine how it was. People anxiously awaiting the new segment and reading it through once or twice and then going to the butcher and loitering around talking about it. People short on cash borrowing precious copies eager to see what happens next. And, don’t you think people would have been offering their opinions on what should happen next?Chapter 7: I think it was mentioned before that Dickens ended each episode with a cliffhanger and this ending has really piqued my curiosity. But, I am glad that I’ll find out tomorrow what happens when Davy gets back to Blunderstone. I loved the visit from Yarmouth and I especially loved that Davy kept little Em’ly to himself rather than mention her to Steerforth.
Just about everything in Dickens comes back around at some point in a novel, so no detail is too small. Sometimes people complain about coincidence in Dickens, but in a way that was the point, sort of like a mystery, to make all the pieces eventually fit together.
As much as I don't like Steerforth tricking David, I think he was rather fortunate to have him on his side, so to speak. His 'career' at the school could have been much different if this boy decided to use him as a target of a different sort. Even looking back, the older David does not regret his association with Steerforth."Let me do myself justice, however. I was moved by no interested or selfish motive, nor was I moved by fear of him. I admired and loved him, and his approval was return enough. It was so precious to me that I look back on these trifles, now, with an aching heart."
I was not pleased, however, with Steerforth's role in getting Mr. Mell dismissed from his position. A snake indeed, Jean!! In a roundabout way, Mr. Mell also gives David a bit of warning about his friendship with this boy.
Mod
I know that Charles Dickens paid very close attention to his sales for each installment, and wrote accordingly. He did indeed write to please public opinion. That's why sometimes we have a new character who looks as if they might be central, but then suddenly disappears. Also the opposite - sometimes we might think oh no! Not another new character!
I have to say though, that I'm finding this novel quite carefully and tightly constructed. You can tell he planned it, can't you? I love all the little hints :)
Well my first thought was, Steerforth is a sneaky, little snot. And I thought he was being awful to Mr. Mell because of the attention Mell was giving to Davy. After reading the comments, I see it might be a little bit different. And, unfortunately, I agree that Steerforth is necessary to Davy right now. Also, wondering if Steerforth has money, why is he in this school?
Finally kept up with the chapters, so hope to comment more often.Thanks Jean for the advice with the book reading nearby, so I got a free one with the funny illustrations! I also think I´m understanding it better now without the text. Richard Armitage was imo reading the first chapters too quickly, but I love how he does the different voices from the narrator David and his shy mother to the lovely Peggotty, the dialect speaking fishermen till the whisper of Creakle (which sounded to me as though he´d had a sore throat)!
I find Elizabeth Gaskell easier to read, but then I don´t do audiobooks very much. Shirley by Charlotte Brontë is not only long, but also partly difficult to understand for me.
Steerforth is defintely a help for Davy, but his role in offending Mr. Mell and him being dismissed is despicable. Though Davy has his own thoughts about the affair, he´s not as couragous as Traddles to openly confront Steerforth.
I´m glad Davy will be going home, but am curious what will happen there, though I know the TV adaptation with Daniel Radcliffe (been a while though!).
Steerforth's treatment of Mr. Mell was shameful indeed. If Mr. Mell received a decent wage from the odious Creakle his family would not be living in charity.Steerforth is probably at that school because he is too lazy to work in a more competitve environment-and he is the Big Fish in the small pond.
David's first term could have been worse-at least he's getting enough to eat and isn't being bullied by his fellow pupils.
Mod
But that was the reason Mr Creakle gave for dismissing poor Mr Mell, who, we all noticed was treated like slave labour. So it is an appropriate school for Steerforth to attend. But I think Rosemarie has a good point, that he feels a Big Fish in a small pond. So if he is ever asked about it at home, he would say he likes it there.
It's great to see you back Michaela, and that you have found the best way of reading this for you. I would love to hear how Richard Armitage does Mr Creakle's voice. I think of it as a sort of falsetto whisper!
We've been reading this for a week now, so I do hope we hear from others who were in at the start too, such as Sue, and John :)
I agree that Steerforth is cunning and never does anything for others unless he benefits more out of helping than the person being "helped." He seems always to have some ulterior motive that may not be apparent. He shows his true self with his hand in getting Mr. Mell fired and shows no compassion or sympathy; whereas Traddles, the true friend, is kind and loyal shown by his support for Mr. Mell as Steerforth bullies him & gets him dismissed. David falls into a misplaced, blind respect for Steerforth and in doing so becomes a pawn who idolizes, yet at the same time David on some level sees the advantages of having such an influential friend: "Steerforth was to them (Mr. Sharp and Mr. Mell) what the sun was to two stars;" and David recognizes that Steerforth "proved a very useful friend" (although Steerforth could not prevent the abuse by Mr. Creakle toward David). There is also the issue of class in society. Steerforth, as is well known by the other boys and staff, comes from a monied family of some distinction and he makes sure everyone becomes aware that Mr. Mell, whom he calls a "beggar," comes from a poor family & whose mother lives in an almshouse, information that David told Steerforth supposedly in confidence. Steerforth exalts himself even more by stating to his fellow students that he will tell his wealthy mother to give Mr. Mell some money. This is a distinction between those that have been given or inherited their money and those like Mr. Mell who have honestly worked for & earned their elevation in life. David feels "remorse and wretched" but quickly forgets about Mr. Mell in his "contemplation of Steerforth" and quietly dismisses Steerforth's breech of confidence in revealing Mr. Mell's status.
There is so much packed into this book by Dickens! Loving it.
Knowing that David is an adult looking back on his childhood, are the feelings of remorse that David expresses those of the young inexperienced youth at the time of events, or those of the mature David in looking back? Would the childhood David be able to comprehend very deeply?
Mod
It's a hangover from the previous century really. If we think of Jane Austen, we remember that all her heroines were impoverished gentry, and looked down on "trade".
But the Industrial Revolution was about to change all that, and this is reflected in Charles Dickens's later novels. Steerforth really is an example of a dying breed. We are products of a society which values hard work, rather than denigrating it.
The other side is welfare, which did not exist in our terms, except as patronage. Charles Dickens himself was keen on this. Although he campaigned strongly for legislation, (eg. to the Poor Law) he had also established "Urania Cottage" (a home for "fallen" women) Angela Burdett-Coutts only 2 years before. He was very involved with it, and all his social projects, when he he was writing David Copperfield.
I had intended to agree with your first post, adding a bit about the older David's perspective - and then spotted your second! Indeed it is masterly how Charles Dickens moves naturally between Davy's point of view and the older David's reflections on it. He never strikes a wrong note :)
Mod
Davy has the long overnight journey back to "Blunderstone Rookery". Here it is again, as we saw before we began the novel:
Blunderstone Rookery in real life
He sleeps for part of the time, at a different inn. The same cart-driver, Mr Barkis, takes him home, and says he is disappointed not to have heard from Peggotty. Davy now has another message to give Peggotty, that “Barkis is waitin’ for a answer.”
After this humorous episode, Davy then enters his home and there is a joyful reunion with his mother, and Peggotty too. Davy's mother is nursing a tiny baby, and because she is delighted with the baby, so Davy loves him too:
Phiz - Clara and her baby, and Davy
Davy passes on Mr Barkis's message to Peggotty, and we see how apprehensive Clara is about her possibly leaving, even though she recognises it would be "a good match". The Murdstone brother and sister come home late, so Davy is able to go to bed without encountering them.
The first part of the six weeks holidays pass, with David keeping to his bedroom, and enjoying reading his books. However this is short-lived, because Mr Murdstone complains that he is "sullen", and insists that Davy spends his time in the parlour. There he has to read "improving" books eg. about arithmetic rather than exciting stories, but he lives in his imagination.
By the end of the holiday, Davy is looking forward to seeing Steerforth and Traddles again, but sad about leaving both his mother and Peggotty. The older David's voice comes in clearly at the end, with sad recollections.
Mod
Davy was so happy, that he says:
"I wish I had died. I wish I had died then, with that feeling in my heart!"
And these:
(view spoiler)
I haven't said anything under the spoilers here that isn't in the text, by the way. It's just that I don't want to emphasise it, if you haven't noticed.
Mod
I – May 1849 (chapters 1–3)
II – June 1849 (chapters 4–6)
III – July 1849 (chapters 7–9)
I prefer our way ;)
It was clever in another way though, because it gave Peggotty a chance to express another opinion about Clara's current position, and Clara's unconvincing defence of the Murdstones, for us.
This was another great chapter. I see some resilience building in Davy - although his circumstances are still terrible and he is bullied by the Murdstones he is no longer weeping and emotional, but silently obedient. He is learning to bear misfortune. Those Murdstones cast a gloom over everything - they don't even consider Davy fit to hold his baby step-brother and they won't let him spend time with Peggotty. His home isn't a home any more so we can understand why now he feels only relief at leaving (despite heading back to Creakle). There's a clear contrast in the two journeys.
I finding "the courting" of Mr Barkis and Peggotty to be hilarious, and good comic relief as David deals with the emotionally abusive Murdstones.
Those Murdstones are a terrible couple and poor Clara is in a very difficult position.Davy remarked that the Murdstones wanted him in the parlour so they could keep an eye on him, but they really didn't want him at all.
I agree with you, Pamela, that the school is better than the Murdstone residence for Davy. I can't call it his home because it isn't anymore. At school he has fellow sufferers and the boys do have fun sometimes too.
Mod
Oddly, I can see parallels with what used to be normal for children. As a child, like Davy tried to, I would spend hours in my room reading, (although I was lucky and also remember hours playing games with my parents, and brother, and friends :) ). Probably many of us here had childhoods like that.
But Davy's being forced to be in the parlour reminded me of a family rule. When we had "company" ie. other family or friends, I had to stay with them, and not read, or do anything by myself, but socialise; some small talk, but mainly to show an interest in them, and respond to their questions.
What the Murdstones expect, is mostly to deprive Davy of any pleasure - we can see that. But they could justify it by saying they were instilling what was thought to be courtesy and good manners for English children. Of course, it was taken to extremes ...
Mr Creakle was also doing what was considered appropriate, by dismissing Mr Mell. Did you notice how the first question he asked him, (after ascertaining that Mr Mell's mother was indeed in an almshouse) was to confirm that he, Mr Creakle, knew nothing about it? This was to make sure the boys realise that if he had, Mr Mell would not have been employed in such a position, so that they knew exactly what was "correct behaviour". He actually used it as a teaching point.
To me, this makes both the villains we have seen, Mr Murdstone and Mr Creakle as believable as products of their society just as Steerforth is.
Partly the brilliance of Charles Dickens is that he can make iniquitous behaviour entertaining. There are so many criticisms of English society and institutions, which are not as overt and hectoring as when he was a young writer, (eg. in Oliver Twist) but by now are embedded in his novels, and revealed naturally by the actions of the characters.
Those few hours Davy had in happiness with his mother and Peggotty perhaps lasted for the rest of the holidays.He sees that his mother is unable to resist, and keeps silent, though there is some resistence in his thoughts. Who´d have thought that he´d be happy to return to school?
I also noticed that Aunt Betsey was mentioned (so she´ll perhaps appear again?) and what you Jean wrote in spoilers.
Re the audiobook, I love Richard doing the voices - Miss Murdstone speaks nasal and irritable, Mr. Murdstone has a dangerous undertone.
I don´t know how old Davy is here - I thought eight or ten -, but I remember my daughters going to bed at seven when they were in Primary School, once they were older it was of course later. But there may be a difference when there are holidays.
That the Murdstones were out for the day when Davy got home was an unexpected and delightful turn of events. I’m a sentimental old fool because I just gobbled that up. I will say I think Davy has handled adversity quite well. The cruelties and hardships he has endured have not hardened his heart. He’s learned a great deal and his observation skills are helping him to gain more insight in his judgments of people and situations. I’m pleased that Davy has thus far retained his sensitive nature.
Michael, you are really tempting me to get the audio to go along with this! I love listening to Richard Armitage read too :) Like Lori, I was happy to find the Murdstones out for the day! I was nearly as happy as David, I think!
I loved the banter between Clara, David and Peggotty regarding Barkis. I had to laugh when Peggotty said she would slap his face if he ever dared to ask her in person! I do believe she was rather flattered by this attention though, and the image of her hiding her face under her apron is priceless.
Jean, when you mentioned that it was expected of you to sit and make small talk with company - we had that exact same rule growing up as well. Heaven forbid if a book was seen! Although my mother loved to brag to that same company about all the books I did read! This is a rule that my mother still expects me to follow even when she comes to my own house. She may be dozing on my sofa after a Thanksgiving dinner, or watching a cooking show on my television, and still gets annoyed should a book appear in my hands! So this scene really struck a chord with me :D
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Oh Michaela - I can imagine that "dark undertone" by Richard Armitage so well! Yorkshire males have the deepest voices :)
So if Davy started school at 8 and half, as we were told, then he must be just coming up to 9. In fact, taking a peek at tomorrow's chapter, it is called "I have a Memorable Birthday", so we do know his exact age. I think Charles Dickens conveys that age really well - continually internalising about what is right and wrong, and his older self's memory and judgement of it.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Black City (other topics)The Vampyre (other topics)
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (other topics)
The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist (other topics)
Jane Eyre (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Jane Austen (other topics)George Sand (other topics)
John Mullan (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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Steerforth is another type to dislike--the charmer who is mainly interested in himself. Using Davy to get the "party" proves he is not an upstanding person. I am not hopeful. On the other hand, I thought of the Artful Dodger taking in Oliver and showing him the ropes, and Davy needs that--one of his own who can show him the pitfalls ahead before he plunges into them--and maybe Steerforth can serve that purpose.
Traddles is where the true friend can be found, I suspect.