Dickensians! discussion
David Copperfield - Group Read 1
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May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 1-14
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Thank you, Jean, I can see the "I am born" and read some words, but it's a little too small for my eyes. Is the original in the Charles Dickens' museum or the British Museum?
My thanks as well. I love seeing manuscripts in the author's handwriting. Another art that is gone, for all we have now are the computer products, with no trace of the changes or anguish that finally put the words upon the page.
Mod
They were all bequeathed by John Forster from his library, to what was a "fledgling museum". LINK HERE (though this article is from 2010).
Bionic Jean wrote: "I thought I'd post a photograph of the first page Charles Dickens ever wrote of David Copperfield"Thank you Jean. I saved the image on my computer, and I enlarged it. I could read the whole first line. You can see the process of creation. It’s impressive.
Mod
There are a lot of his personal scripts/notes for his reading extant too. These are extracts from his novels and other writings, with his own "stage directions" as it were, on how he wanted to read it; his demeanour and expressions etc., added.
Sara wrote: "My thanks as well. I love seeing manuscripts in the author's handwriting. Another art that is gone, for all we have now are the computer products, with no trace of the changes or anguish that final..."True, Sara, but thinking of the author, it is painful to think of the amount of work that went into editing a whole book when you couldn't just delete and insert.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Captain Scott’s men read parts of David Copperfield aloud every night while they were trapped in an ice cave in the Antarctic, on their doomed expedition. It was one of three books tha..."It IS amazing... I'm skimming through this section to get a feel of the participating experience.
Mod
Thank you Jean for the summaries and the enlightening comments from everyone. I’m only six months behind!David Copperfield was the first Dickens book i read, way back in my dark ages. I remember being completely entranced with it and did not want to put it down and do my school work.
In this reading I find the role of women in Dickens and his era fascinating. Did you notice that Murdstone lives with three very different women?
Peggotty has probably been a servant since her teen years and probably saw no men that interested her. She was content with David and Clara.
It could be that because of a strict upbringing that Jane M. Was not encouraged to marry, or, perhaps no man wanted her. She is not rich.
And for Clara, it is surprising that she was an unmarried widow for so long. She was fortunate to have some money. I’m also surprised that Mr. Murdstone chose a widow with child, for a first wife. He liked how naive she was, but obviously she was not a virgin.
The role of unmarried women in society has always been a difficult one. It began to change after WWI when there was a shortage of men. WWII changed the role of women even more. Thus these three examples are interesting. And then Aunt Betsy adds a fourth variation.
Yes, the women carry the day in this novel, especially Aunt Betsey.
I think Mr Murdstone was very interested in the money and the house which came with Clara.
Mod
I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. It's lovely that you have fond memories of the novel from childhood. I think it's such a feel-good book :)
Hi all! As I planned earlier to start this one from November, I’ve read 5 chapters till now.
I’m enjoying this ‘1 chapter a day’ concept, I think I can’t read it more than that! Anyways the summaries, facts and photos provided here are really delightful! I am so loving them. :)
Mod
I love all the comments here and most of my thoughts have already been mentioned and I have nothing new to add.Weak characters are a put off for me and for the same reason I did not like David's mother. But I liked David's aunt and Ms. Murdsrone's character (Although the Murdstones were horrible people) And my absolute favourite is Peggoty.
It's actually sad, Clara's qualities - being pretty, naive and gullible were considered a desirable trait in women, and they were content with it. While it still is somewhat prevalent in today's era, I'm so glad we have come a long way in terms of feminism.
I was not expecting, but some parts are hilarious. Especially the "Barkis is willing" part....
Mod
Yes, isn't it hilarious?! That's why I think David Copperfield is such a great one to start with. I'm so pleased you are enjoying it, and look forward to seeing what you make of the next section :)
This is just a quick note to say that I am happy to be belatedly reading this discussion. I came to the group after you read David Copperfield! It's fun to read along the conversation as I go.
Mod
And now I've read the first 14 chapters and have read all the comments here, and am leaving my thoughts for future generations of readers. Jean, you know I love talking to you, but I also know you're extremely busy, so please don't feel that you have to answer.It's a lovely experience to follow the comments at one's own pace.
Also, I was not with the group at that point, but I still feel kind of nostalgic when reading those first discussions :)
Jean, thank you for all the illustrations! I can't say I love each and every one to distraction, but an illustration is an interpretation, so it's still like talking about the book to other (clever) people.
Foreshadowing. I've come to love this device, actually. John Mullan in The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist says, 'Slipping into the future would become one of his distinctive tricks, used with increasing audacity as his plotting developed through his career.' (Excellent book, but by necessity choke-full of spoilers). Meaning that this was another example of Dickens breaking the rules, doing something unexpected, foreshadowing instead of revealing the plot gradually - doing something brave and innovative, as he often did.
The idea of reading books that influenced Charles Dickens as side-reads was marvelous!
I have so much in common with little David!
My father was certainly very firm ('discipline' was his word); I read a lot; I had to carry ignominious inscriptions after transgressions so the world would know what a shameful person I was at pre-school age; and my mother never stood up for me.
A shameful placard also features in 'Jane Eyre', and I guess it can only arouse pity or indifference in others - but definitely makes the carrier suffer.
I was wondering if it's just me or if there are overtones of 'Hamlet' here apart from the obvious, so thank you, Lori, for saying 'I half expected the ghost of Davy’s father to put in an appearance here.'
Cindy, your comment about 'piratical imagery' (re: Tungay) is brilliant!
Jean, sorry, but I disagree with this statement:
'If we think of Jane Austen, we remember that all her heroines were impoverished gentry, and looked down on "trade".'
Maybe some characters did, but the heroines did not! Lizzie liked her uncle Gardiner a lot, for instance: 'Mr. Gardiner was a sensible, gentlemanlike man, greatly superior to his sister, as well by nature as education. The Netherfield ladies would have had difficulty in believing that a man who lived by trade, and within view of his own warehouses, could have been so well-bred and agreeable.'
Love Lory's comparison of Mrs Gummidge to Eeyore!
I love Aunt Betsey, too! In fact, I think that with my aversion to noise, I might look the same to my neighbours as she did with her aversion to donkeys. (I like Maggie Smith, too :)).
Richard Dadd - thank you for this info, Jean! I didn't know this. Tragic and thought-provoking.
I also love Aunt Betsey's analysis of Clara's marriage - France-Andrée, thank you for the insight that 'as a battered wife she can recognize an abuser'. Are you still here, by the way? It seems that many people who were here in the beginning have left?
I do enjoy rereads, though I'm not sure 'David Copperfield' quite counts as one for me since I read it so long ago. I think I'm too distracted by the plot on the first reading and too preoccupied with what happens next. On my second reading, I'm able to concentrate on the details and the artistry much better. And then there are books that one can read every year and still find something new in them each time.
Running away and losing one's possessions on the way: that's another similarity to Jane Eyre. I think this is a symbol for rebirth, leaving behind your previous life's possessions, however scanty they might be.
Annuity, as I understand it, is not necessarily a percentage on an investment; it's a contract according to which money is paid to the recipient on certain terms. So it might have been like this: David's father went to an insurance company and said, 'I'd like my wife to receive something annually in case I die, as long as she lives'. They said, 'Then you have to pay us this certain sum'. It's an open question if the family won or lost through this transaction.
'I never shall forget the waking next morning; the being cheerful and fresh for the first moment, and then the being weighed down by the stale and dismal oppression of remembrance.'This is so poignant, isn't it? I know this feeling so well, and not just from childhood.
'He brought me some chops, and vegetables, and took the covers off in such a bouncing manner that I was afraid I must have given him some offence.' (About the friendly waiter).
It's so true that when adults try to be friendly with children, they cause the shy ones so much suffering just because the children don't know how to interpret these gestures!
'...the influence of the strain upon me was, first, to make me think of all my sorrows until I could hardly keep my tears back...' (About Mr Mell's music).
A possible influence on my favourite Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (there are more allusions to Dickens in this book, of course).
Don't you think Steerforth (view spoiler)
And Aunt Betsey, touching people without approaching them, is certainly magical :)
Connie wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "Connie - actually Sheffield (the city where I was born :) ) is in South Yorkshire, in the North of England! It is nowhere near the county of Suffolk, in which is in the South of..."Indeed, Sheffield, Solingen (Germany) and Thiers (France) are three industrial cities with traditional expertise in manufacturing knives and blades! Thiers is a significant character in The Black City, La Ville Noire by George Sand!
As to the fairy tale hinted at, it may also be Le Petit Poucet by Perrault.
There are a few fairy tales featuring children whose mother or father are married again to a spouse who is not trustworthy...
Mod
Just to say that you are quite right about some of Jane Austen's heroines. The gentry as a class would look down on trade, but some individuals did not. I expressed that badly! 🙄
And yes, France-Andrée is still in the group, but I know she was having some problems a few months ago. Hopefully we will see her when things are better.
I’m so glad Claudia made a recent comment here because my Goodreads notification settings picked it up. I was able to go back in time and read many fascinating comments, including the ones by Plateresca. I learn from going back over the past discussions in DICKENSIANS.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Black City (other topics)The Vampyre (other topics)
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (other topics)
The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist (other topics)
Jane Eyre (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Jane Austen (other topics)George Sand (other topics)
John Mullan (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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Petra - I think fixating on details can be a good tendency to have, especially with mystery elements :)