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David Copperfield - Group Read 1
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May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 1-14
Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "When Aunt Betsey tells David she had written to his "father-in-law,"shouldn't it be to his "step-father"?"
I wondered about that too.
Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "When Aunt Betsey tells David she had written to his "father-in-law,"shouldn't it be to his "step-father"?"
Father-in-law is also an archaic term for stepfather. I think it crops up in Middlemarch too.
Aunt Betsey was made of win in this chapter. I think I read her takedown of Mr Murdstone three times. :) And it was hilarious how Miss Murdstone kept trying to jab Aunt Betsey with supercilious sarcasm and Betsey just completely ignored her, which was absolutely the best way to get under Miss Murdstone's skin.I think there's an interesting bit of symbolism in David's clothing issues here: Betsey took away his rags but made him wear Mr Dick's ill-fitting clothes until she was certain that she was ready to commit to have David stay with her longterm. Possibly she just wanted the Murdstones to see David in those oversized clothes, though I can't really figure out a satisfactory reason for her doing that.
Mod
I love this - wasn't it brilliant?! I also like the idea that the reclothing of Davy was symbolic. He has a new name "Trotwood", and a new suit to go with the new chapter of his life. Clothes maketh the man.
Though I saw the series with Maggie Smith, I don´t remember it so well, but can easily imagine her in the role of Aunt Betsey, so strong and funny too, and I love the practical side of Mr. Dick! He´s much appreciated by Aunt Betsey, and she also has got no problem with his odd side. I loved how she dealt with the Murdstones! I´m not convinced though that this is the end of David´s sufferings.The picture you posted Jean reminded me of Art Brut by mentally handicapped people. We have/had a group of people with psychosis etc in an open atelier near Vienna (some of them already dead), who combined drawings or paintings with writing.
Aunt Betsey certainly took the wind out of Mr. Murdstone's sails and he ended up pale and speechless as Miss Murdstone led him out quietly (but haughtily, perhaps to save face) without a word. I would love to have seen Aunt Betsey carry out her threat to Miss Murdstone if she ever rode over her green ever again! Feisty woman!David now has another name, Trotwood Copperfield. Also, another name was attributed to David by Mr. Dick who greeted him as Phoebus earlier in the chapter - Phoebus being another name for Apollo the god of the sun. Thus, he thinks of David as the bright, radiant one. After his discussion with Aunt Betsey who was non-committal about keeping him at first, David admits to feelings of depression; but after the visit with Mr. Dick who calls him Phoebus, perhaps there is some brightness coming into David's life. David's relationship with Mr. Dick looks bright.
In reference to David never being given the Murdstone name, I think that was intentional and that Murdstone would never have intended to "adopt" David. Had his own child lived, he would doubtless have received everything and David nothing. I noticed that Aunt Betsey questioned the fact that no provision had been made for Davy and that all of Clara's property goes to Murdstone. It might not seem like much, but Clara's husband had left her a cottage and property and Murdstone moved in there, which implies he owned no home of his own. Good enough reason for me to have motivated marrying her in the first place. I love Mr. Dick, he is so simple and honest. Every time Aunt Betsey asks what should be done with David, he suggests something very practical. He is going to be a light in David's life.
I wondered about Clara´s house too, as Murdstone seems to possess it now, though it would rather go to David - but probably not at those times.
I noticed that Aunt Betsey asked if David's mother's annuity ended when she died, and Murdstone admitted that it had. I suspect he hasn't got much money of his own but is just trying to live as a gentleman (i.e., not working at a job) and is happy to have Clara's house and property.Michaela wrote: "I wondered about Clara´s house too, as Murdstone seems to possess it now, though it would rather go to David - but probably not at those times."
I thought about this too. From a legal point of view, at that time in England I think it's probably safe to assume that the husband would inherit the entire estate, rather than the wife's children, unless other arrangements were made.
I'm rather behind, as I've been busy, and have just read to the end of Chapter VI (the first monthly number). I've also just been reading through the posts here up to that point. I am wondering why Dickens cut out the description of Creakle's religious beliefs (I was going to post this from the notes to my edition but then saw you had beaten me to it, Jean. ) Was it just because of space or because perhaps he felt that it didn't altogether fit with Creakle's character? With this passage cut out, he doesn't strike me as very religious, although I don't remember if there are any mentions of this later.
I was interested to see in a note to the old Penguin that Creakle comes from "the Borough", which is where the Marshalsea prison was, where Dickens's family were imprisoned for his father's debt.
On Murdstone, sorry, I don't remember who said this in the discussion, but I was interested in the suggestion that he could be seen as a con man, with hints at possibly shady financial dealings.I think he does in effect con Clara, by presenting himself as someone quite different before they are married, and suggesting he will be much kinder to her and David than he in fact is once he has the upper hand.
It's striking that Murdstone appears to be so proper and gloomily religious, but is quite different when he is with his friends. The passage where they are all smoking so heavily at the hotel and joking about the "bewitching" widow doesn't go with his puritanical behaviour at home.
Mod
Elizabeth - thanks for the reminder of "Phoebus", which should definitely be added to our list of David's names :)
Sara and Tadiana - Murdstone did have money, through the firm he owned, and these sort of financial dealings were perfectly compatible at the time with his having "gentleman" status, (although you are correct, his former residence is never mentioned).
However, he has maintained several times that his intentions were to mould pretty young Clara, and I believe this is by far the strongest motive.
Remember Clara has very little money of her own, and lived modestly with David and Peggotty, in a simple cottage (which I posted a picture of earlier). If Edward Murdstone had wanted a rich heiress, he was looking in the wrong place! It's more to do with power, and (ahem!) lust.
Judy - the extra description of Creakle was just cut out as it wasn't necessary for what followed, I suspect, so was jettisoned to make the word count fit.
Yes everyone, as mentioned before, in English Law at the time, a wife's former money and possessions transferred to her husband on marriage. We also had it confirmed in this chapter that the house was Edward Murdstone's entirely. David had no claim, nor ever would have when he comes of age.
I'm also liking the chapter a day format, I tend to read a book quite quick and not really stop and analyse it too much; now, I have to and I think it does underline things that go unnoticed otherwise.I was looking forward to the Murdstone v. Trotwood match. I remembered it as a highlight for me. I think aunt Betsey can understand a lot about the Murdstone and Clara relationship because she has been there, as a battered wife she can recognize an abuser when she sees one and she has also really listened to David even though he is a little kid and others have discounted him because of it, she doesn't and that's what makes you love her all the more.
Yes, I agree it could stop there and we would all be quite happy, but I know the rest is worth it too so I'll continue the reread. What I found really frustrating in The Mystery of Edwin Drood was how sudden the end is and I know why and I was expecting it, but still it was so frustrating! I read Elizabeth Gaskell last book Wives and Daughters and even though it is unfisnished it ends on a complete note and if I hadn't known it was suppose to continue I would have been happy with the ending so we are lucky that there is so many books by Dickens to read before frustrating ourselves...
I think the actor, Lennox Pawle, is exactly how I was seeing Mr. Dick (well, maybe a little younger). I might try to find the movie after the reread, but I often don't go for adaptation, I like to have and keep my own image of a book. I love how practical Mr. Dick is "a suit" is exactly what David needs.
I am so looking forward to this new phase in David's life.
This has been my favorite chapter so far. I love Aunt Betsey's annihilation of the Murdstones! Her plain-speaking holds up a mirror to him and forces him to see what a contemptible creature he is. How galling it must have been to him, to have to sit there and have every pretense and justification stripped away by her scathing words. I am sure that he had rarely, if ever, had to sit and listen to a woman talk to him in such a highhanded way; even his redoubtable sister shut up when he told her to. But he had met a woman over whom he had no power, and it was a humbling experience for him. As for Miss Murdstone, who loves flexing her power over others every bit as much as her brother, to be treated as though her existence wasn't significant enough to be acknowledged when she tried to interject was indeed, as others have noted, the worst thing that could be done to her. That round was a KO for Miss Betsey!It seems that poor David has finally found a place where he will be loved and taken care of. Dickens could have ended here, but I'm so glad he didn't. We still have some foreshadowings to be fulfilled!
Yeah, Aunt Betsey!I love how, whenever Aunt Betsey asks Mr. Dick what is to be done with David, she seems to be asking a larger question, but Mr. Dick always notices what David needs most right this minute.
David is going to have a hard time living up to his "sister's" reputation.
I've read a bit further today, up to the end of Chapter 9 and the third monthly number (I love to read it in numbers.)Bionic Jean wrote: "Pamela - good point that Mr Murdstone could have been grieving for his son ... although I feel he's stunned by the whole thing ...
Personally my opinion is that this is one of the many pictures of his sister-in-law, Mary Hogarth, who lived with the family and tragically died in Charles Dickens's arms at the age of 17. It's not an exact parallel, but I think that's where the authentic feeling comes in.*
"
Jean, I'm sure you are right that Dickens thought of Mary when writing about the death, as he was so devastated by her loss.
I vaguely remembered that his sister Fanny also died around this time - just checked, and she died of TB in September 1848, a few months before the serialisation of DC started. She was in her 30s. I've just looked up a page about her and I see from this that her son, Harry (not a baby - he is said to have inspired Tiny Tim and Paul Dombey), died shortly afterwards and the mother and son were buried together, like Clara and her baby.
So, although the narration of the double death might seem sentimental, sadly it is fairly similar to what the Dickens family had just gone through in real life. :(
https://dickensmuseum.com/blogs/charl...
Judy wrote: "I've read a bit further today, up to the end of Chapter 9 and the third monthly number (I love to read it in numbers.)Bionic Jean wrote: "Pamela - good point that Mr Murdstone could have been gri..."
Judy, thanks for this info, it's really interesting to hear about these other deaths in Dickens' life.
To me, the reason why I find Dickens' narration of the death of Clara to be sentimental is not that the event itself is unrealistic, but that the way it is presented is idealised. No sweat, face twisted with pain, or unseemly groaning - Clara expires with a patient smile and a loving word for her faithful servant :)
With Fanny's death fresh in his mind, this must have been difficult for Dickens to write. He was obviously very fond of his sister. He immortalized her again in A Christmas Carol and used her real name.Just a bit of unrelated nonsense, but my grandfather's sister's name was Fanny. She was dead long before I was born, but he often spoke of her and he obviously loved her so. When I first read A Christmas Carol, I associated the two sisters and have never separated them in my mind.
Mod
I'm so glad you're enjoying the "chapter-a-day" format :) It is details like this which make me enjoy a careful read of Charles Dickens so much. I am certain that the first time I read this novel, I was so caught up in the story that I read it fast - as I read everything! (With some boring school books it would be in one ear and out of the other ... though I didn't read Charles Dickens at school.) So anything mentioned in the first chapter - such as Betsey Trotwood's early history - which might be taken up later, completely passed me by.
This time, we could make a point of noticing it. Earlier, you said "when we encounter a character I did love the first time around, the recognition of how much I loved them is there" and I found this so true :)
Reading Charles Dickens for the first time is a marvellous experience, but there's another sort of joy in a reread. As you say, it's such a lovely warm cosy feeling, to meet again those characters we know and love.
I confess it saddens me just a little when people only ever want to read a novel they haven't yet read, as I feel they're missing something precious ... but I know of course that we never have enough time.
Mod
Judy - thank you so much for that link! I too realised that Fanny and her son had died at around this time - but hadn't really extended the thought! It's a great idea to read as per each installment, and I'm so glad you're almost synchronised with us now.
Pamela - Maybe I'm immune, but I didn't really find the death of Clara over-sentimental. I don't think Davy would ever have been aware of the unpleasant aspects, (Peggotty would have protected him) and the older David wouldn't have wanted to dwell on it, because he did have an idealised view of his mother. But perhaps that's what you're saying ...
Sara - I love it when we can make these personal connections. A Christmas Carol was my father's favourite book, and that's what alway pops into my mind when I think of it :) Yours is, if possible, even more poignant :)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Judy - thank you so much for that link! I too realised that Fanny and her son had died at around this time - but hadn't really extended the thought! It's ..."Thank you Jean! I've just realised that I share Fanny's birthday (October 28), so I will try to remember to read the short piece younger brother Charles wrote about her, A Child's Dream of a Star, then. It will be the 210th anniversary of her birth this year.
On the question of sentimentality, I do agree that Peggotty would tell David a carefully edited account and miss out anything unpleasant - but also I think most Victorian readers would have been able to fill in the reality of a deathbed for themselves, so they didn't really need the physical details. I think Gaskell does give a more realistic portrayal of deathbeds in one or two of her books, though.
Judy wrote: "On the question of sentimentality, I do agree that Peggotty would tell David a carefully edited account and miss out anything unpleasant - but also I think most Victorian readers would have been ab..."An interesting thought, Judy. Undoubtedly most Victorians would have witnessed death up close and personal. I am surprised how many people I know have never seen anyone die, never sat by the bedside of a dying person. Many chose not to view the deceased even after-the-fact...funeral director, closed casket.
When I was young it was still the practice to have a lying-in at the home. My Granny was laid out in her own parlor. You are quite right in thinking the Victorians would have viewed death a bit differently than we do and had no need for any detailed description of the event.
My secret wish to have a showdown between Betsey Trotwood and Miss Murdstone was granted! This was my favorite scene thus far. The note about the symbolism of the clothes is much appreciated. Not sure I really stopped to think about this completely, but it makes perfect sense.
I tried to envision all these donkeys causing such a scene! Would this really have been such a problem? In any case, it was great comic relief once again :)
Mod
Oh did you notice in the Phiz illustration, when Davy first arrived at Aunt Betsey's cottage, the boys were cavorting with the donkeys on the hillside in the background LOL!
Judy - I'll look forward to your thoughts on that :)
I caught up to you yesterday but didn't read chapter 15. Jean, thank you again for summarizing chapters as we read. Your summarizes really helpful and help me enjoy the story more. Like Candy I was looking forward to have showdown between Betsey Trotwood and Miss Murdstone which was granted and was better than what I expected. David really lucky to have Mrs Betsey and Mr. Dick they lovely characters. I really loved how Mrs. Betsey threaten Murdstones.
“Let me see you ride a donkey over my green again, and as sure as you have a head upon your shoulders, I’ll knock your bonnet off, and tread upon it!”
And watching them if they are taking her threat seriously or not. In case to carry her threat into instant execution. :)))
Mod
Thank you for saying about the summaries, as I had wondered if they were still needed.
Yes, the showdown between the two strong women, Betsey Trotwood and Jane Murdstone was wonderful! I get cross when people say that Charles Dickens writes wishy washy weak women, because look at these two! It makes me want to cheer. Great quotation too :)
Jean, Summaries really helpful but I don't want you feel you have to do that until the end of the book. It must be taken your time and seems like you need to give a lot of effort. And I really appreciate that. But if you enjoy to summarizing chapters than it is great to have them. :))
Mod
But having said that, I have asked everyone here a couple of times, because I feel a little embarrassed! ...
You see when I started this group a month ago, I was keen that we should all be able to read at our own pace, with not too many threads, and for that it needed to be "anchored" so that people knew where spoiler tags were needed. I thought a couple of sentences would do it.
But writing longer summaries, it feels sometimes as though I am taking Charles Dickens's wonderful witty and beautiful words, and making them into something dull and pedestrian :( As long as a summary is useful, that is good, but I hope people know that they can skim through it, as Charles Dickens himself is far more entertaining!
And I think we must never lose sight of that, even if we do enjoy analysing what we read :)
Jean, technically my first language is German but it really is English since I started school in Grade One in Canada.
Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "Charles Dickens's difficult language style"Jean, I think I take the easy way out for that, the edition I read written in a way that let me understand more. I guess the edition I tried first was most close to his original style so it was hard to understand for me. I can see the difference between the one you read and mine when I see the part you shared.
Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "Nisa - Thank you - you are always kind :) I should say that I do enjoy writing the summaries, although yes, at the moment this thread takes most of the morning. But I am so much in awe of you, Kath..."For those of us who read this not too long ago and aren't rereading, your summaries are perfect to refresh our memory so we can participate and still avoid spoilers.
I'm going to go back and read the comments since I last posted. It's been awhile but I've caught up to Chapter 14.Poor David! So much sorrow and grief for such a young child. And through it all, he keeps his good will, innocence and love of humanity. He befriends everyone who is nice to him and trusts them completely.
The fellow who stole his possessions and money was despicable. Talk about kicking someone when he's down. David was only 10 years old (or maybe 11 by then). He's doing the best that he can do and this scoundrel steals everything he has.
But the kid has tenacity and kept going. He's got grit, that's for sure.
Thank goodness he's found Aunt Betsey's household It looks like he's fallen into some caring hands.
Aunt Betsey mentioned an small annuity when speaking with Murdstone. Does an annuity die when the recipient dies? As it usually comes from an investment, did Murdstone steal Davey's parents' savings/investments from David? Or is it still there somewhere?
Going back a bit: I loved Peggotty's courtship gifts from Mr. Barkiss.
Then after the marriage, he turns out to be a real skinflint and keeps the household money from her.
I really like how Dickens pulls us into the story in an emotional way. I'm invested in Davy's future and his present. On his trip to Dover, I felt his despondency and hunger. He's got a strong spirit and a good one.
I'm going back to read the comments now and may comment further when I read all the insightful posts.
Lori wrote: "I would be very interested in knowing if A. A. Milne was a fan of Dickens. It occurred to me while reading this chapter that Mrs. Gummidge might have been the inspiration behind the loveable but gloomy Eeyore. It’s probably a stretch but she’s such a pessimistic “creetur” in spite of all the encouragement she receives. Yet, like Eeyore she does manage to make me smile. It’s almost as if I’d be disappointed if she didn’t put a damper on things. Lol! ..."Lori, I love this! I won't every not think of Eeyore when Mrs. Gummidge is mentioned again. That's a perfect analogy. Thank you.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Wilkins Micawber is perhaps the most well-known parallel to a real person in Dickens's life. He's a direct portrait of Dickens's own father - an improvident gentleman - and his history in David Copperfield also mimics real life. What isn't mentioned quite so often is that his wife is also heavily based on his real-life mother. ."I really liked Micawber and his family. I was so sorry when they left Davey behind. I was hoping they would take him with them to a new life.
It's nice that he put his parents in this story in such a warm, if impoverished & financially irresponsible, way. It's as if Dickens, as an adult, could accept and in some ways understand the motivations of his parents' actions and lifestyle. Understanding leads to forgiveness.
Bionic Jean wrote: "So John Forster's first volume of that will be our side read, for those who wish it and I'll detail more later :).."I have it downloaded and am ready to jump in when we start.
Bionic Jean wrote: "There were 12 pence in one shilling 12d or 1/-..."
An aside in reference to Ulysses: 12 pence in a shilling threw me off course in a reference to money. I thought there would be 10 pence in a shilling (similar to 10 dimes in a dollar) and the cost of a ticket on the Irish bus system threw me off because the change given at the time of purchase of the ticket was "wrong". LOL! A small thing but it played big in that part of the story.
Since then, I'm not likely to forget that a shilling has 12 pence, not 10. LOL.
Cindy wrote: " I know he is being paid, but he is also given no choice--he is forced to work for him. ..."I was a bit appalled that Davey was made to work and then use his entire wages to purchase food for himself, and not the best of food or enough to feel fully satisfied.
I didn't go back to check, but didn't Murdstone say that his food would be paid for?
It was unfair enough to stifle Davey's intelligence with such work and not educating him properly but to make him work for his food was reprehensible, I thought. The poor kid.
Katy wrote: "The fact that sleeping next to his old school was comforting to David shows how much worse his life has become, considering that the school wasn't a very nice place for him when he was there. ..."This was such a touching scene. I felt so sad for Davey and hope that he'll soon find this level of happiness again, and more.
Thanks Jean for posting summaries, as English is also only my second language, but only do it as far as possible - it needn´t be too long. Thanks anyway! Will have to catch up on the next chapters, as I needed a break from DC. ;)
Petra wrote: "I'm going to go back and read the comments since I last posted. It's been awhile but I've caught up to Chapter 14.Poor David! So much sorrow and grief for such a young child. And through it all, ..."
Petra, I was wondering about the annuity also, wondering if David actually has money that Mr. Murdstone is either taking himself or concealing from David.
Mod
We discussed this at the time ... on marriage at this time a woman's money and property switched ownership to her husband. I think I quoted the year of the Act. There was nothing, and no exception made in this case for David (whose gender was not even known, as David senior died before the baby was born). Once you know the leg position, this quotation makes it clear:
"‘The poor child’s annuity died with her?’
‘Died with her,’ replied Mr. Murdstone.
‘And there was no settlement of the little property—the house and garden—the what’s-its-name Rookery without any rooks in it—upon her boy?’
‘It had been left to her, unconditionally, by her first husband,’"
And now automatically already belongs to Mr Murdstone. Aunt Betsey immediately went on to recognise that David Senior would not have made such a condition.
Nice anecdote about shillings Petra! When we went decimal in 1971, millions of schoolchildren rejoiced that they no longer had to learn the 11 and 12 times table!
Mod
Thanks, Jean, for clarifying. So, the annuity died with Clara's death. What happens to the investment that the annuity came from? Does that go to Mr. Murdstone, therefore causing the actual annuity to die?
Poor David! Thank goodness he continues to find people who care about and befriend him. Respect & friendship can mean more than money throughout life.
Mod
So, the annuity died with Clara's death. What happens to the investment that the annuity came from? Does that go to Mr. Murdstone, therefore causing the actual annuit..."
Oh my, I don't know anything about modern day annuities, never mind Victorian ones! I think the point is that all a Victorian woman's assets transferred to her husband on marriage. Simple as that!
LOL! I'll try not to overthink the details (it's a tendency I can spiral into). Thanks, Jean!
I know that some annuities in Canada and now just die with the recipient and the cash goes to the company administering it, it’s a decision the person setting up the annuity has to take. I guess every company needs to make money. There’s also another kind that gives the heirs a lump sum still with a part going to the company. I was very surprised about the first kind, I learned that through work because we deal with people taking their retirement though it is not our main work.
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shouldn't it be to his "step-father"?