April 2020 Group Read (spoiler thread): Pop. 1280 by Jim Thompson

[Bill]

This is the thread for spoiler comments about Pop. 1280 by Jim Thompson.

Enjoy and have a great April.

[Aditya]

I would be interested to know what most of you thought about the ending. I had it pegged for a 5 star read but the ending dragged it down to 4 stars. Was Thompson going for a surreal ending or maybe he wanted to show that Nick was slowly going insane? I thought it was a combination of both but it did not really work. Just felt abrupt to me.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Thompson wrote a story highlighting human hypocrisy - how we talk about high-minded topics like "justice" but really everyone acts in their own self-interest. Although the ending can be taken literally, I think it can be interpreted a different way as well.

[Lisa]

What are some thoughts on how it could be interpreted, besides literally? Looking at it in a literal fashion, it struck me as Nick continuing to be infuriatingly evasive in conversation as always, down to the very end. I loved the book, but would have liked to see an end that was more conclusive.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Through the story we encounter scene after scene in which Nick acts in a manner contrary to the behavior we expect in a lawman - the town attorney even brings this to Nick's attention on more than one occasion. Nick points out the hypocrisy inherent in a justice system - everyone wants the law upheld unless they are the ones breaking it. Even the town attorney punches another man in the face simply because the man called him by his first name (which Nick does all the time, with no consequence).

Every person that we encounter in the story is a hypocrite, with the possible exception of Gaddis, who is running against Nick for sheriff. There appears to be nothing wrong with Gaddis, everyone admits this, yet the townspeople are more than happy to start spreading rumors about him and even finally attack him to his face just outside church. Why? They can't bear to be confronted with their own hypocrisies.

Nick has broken just about every one of the Ten Commandments by the end of the story, but he is still a church-goer. Our justice system, along with many other societal rules and norms. is largely derived from concepts explored in the Bible (and other religious texts). But how much do we want to see those ideas upheld, and to what degree? We laughed as Nick was kicked in the butt, we cheered as the pimps were killed, we sympathized with Rose as she cheated on her abusive husband Tom and we certainly didn't waste any tears mourning Tom's death. Any one of these situations would be very grim when it is not presented to us in the guise of dark humor.

It seems that although everyone else in town behaves in their own self-interest they actually pull up short of fully doing whatever they want. Nick is the only one who seems to do whatever he wants and he gets away with it, due at least in part to his badge. So maybe the ultimate hypocrisy is for Nick to suggest that he is Jesus Christ. But in a society governed by self-interest, perhaps he is the ultimate authority.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I loathed this book.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I loathed this book."

I'm sorry to hear that aPriL. What did you not like about it?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Its an ugly and mean and vicious novel similar to the 'act' of some stand-up comedians. Did you ever see Don Rickles? Or Joan Rivers? They made no distinction between minor mistakes or errors of judgement or how people's faces were unfortunately plain or beautiful, or what effort someone had made to do a good thing, or how nice someone was or real monstrous evil acts.

They were delighted to smash down everyone, innocent and guilty, into torn and broken shreds for their own nasty pleasure and self-aggrandizement. They wanted to hurt, skin people alive. It wasn't about justice or revenge - it was about being evil. If people didn't laugh, especially their shocked victims, then these comedians screamed at them louder spitting in their faces with even more degrading venom. Everyone witnessing this uncalled-for degradation was encouraged to pile on in mutual scorn - thus being lead to develop their own worst salacious instincts. Afterwords, the comedian usually said "just a joke!" when it was not, but actually pure meanness, and a call for people to become a cross-burning, tar-and-feathering mob, an excuse to become Darth Vader without feeling guilty.

I never have come across such a clever book before that tricks readers -laugh, reader, laugh! It's just a joke! - while actually spewing out real venom against the reader. There is a difference between satire and sadistic bullying.

Yeah, yeah, wouldn't want to look like a spoilsport, a partypooper, like I can't enjoy a 'fun' laugh 'with' an author's genuinely evil nonsense. I should be part of the boy wolf-pack, farting and flicking snot from my nose to fit in.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "...I never have come across such a clever book before that tricks readers -laugh, reader, laugh! It's just a joke! - while actually spewing out real venom against the reader. There is a difference between satire and sadistic bullying.

Yeah, yeah, wouldn't want to look like a spoilsport, a partypooper, like I can't enjoy a 'fun' laugh 'with' an author's genuinely evil nonsense. I should be part of the boy wolf-pack, farting and flicking snot from my nose to fit in."

I wouldn't call you a spoilsport. Dark humor is definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was actually wondering if anyone would comment on what a vile person Nick was. Everything he did was presented in a humorous light but nothing he did was something we would want done to ourselves.

[Suki]

This book was hard to read because all the characters, especially Nick, are absolutely horrible people, with no redeeming qualities at all; but at the same time it was very compelling and hard to put down.

Initially, Nick is presented as a very stupid man, but it is revealed throughout the story that he is just smart enough, manipulative enough, and self-centered enough to be very dangerous when his way of life/livelihood is at risk. It is amazing to watch his thought processes at work, to see how he finds a way to justify and excuse every horrible deed he commits. In the end of the story, it is revealed that he has a messiah complex. I'm not sure if he committed the murders because he saw himself as Jesus/Judas, or if he came to see himself in that light because he had committed murder. In the Introduction to my edition, , Nick Corey is likened to Lou Ford from The Killer Inside Me. I think that although they are similar in many ways, Nick's thoughts sometimes show confusion and delusion, whereas Ford was mean and rotten all the way through.

The descriptions of Nick's meals were rather funny. He would say that he wasn't able to eat hardly anything, except... and then rattle off an entire shopping list. I wonder if he had a tapeworm!

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Suki wrote: "This book was hard to read because all the characters, especially Nick, are absolutely horrible people, with no redeeming qualities at all; but at the same time it was very compelling and hard to p..."

I agree with you Suki. Nick was a terrible guy and so were most of the people in town. It reminds me of what Dale Carnegie said in How to Win Friends and Influence People, about how cold blooded murderers who were serving time in prison all refused to see themselves as the bad guy. I think Thompson was making the point that we are all hypocrites to a degree, although he was obviously making his point with characters whose behavior was extreme.

I actually found the book easy to read because of the great sense of dark humor with which Thompson wrote it, but at the same time I was unsettled by the actions and behavior of the characters. I found that part similar to Killer Inside Me, and you make a great point about the similarities between the protagonists in the two books. Killer Inside Me was much harder for me to read because of the untempered sociopathy displayed by Lou Ford throughout the story.

And yeah the meals were funny. They made me hungry sometimes! I suppose Nick must have had a hollow leg to be able to put away all that food.

[Cathryn]

Aditya wrote: "I would be interested to know what most of you thought about the ending. I had it pegged for a 5 star read but the ending dragged it down to 4 stars. Was Thompson going for a surreal ending or mayb..."

I had the same reaction--5 stars that went down to 4 because the ending felt abrupt and I was left slightly confused. I might go back and re-read it because, after some thought, I realized the book started out quite funny, became darker, then developed religious overtones. This makes me wonder if in the end, he begins to think he's some sort of instrument of God. Even so, it was too abrupt for my taste.

[Aditya]

@Cathryn you are spot on about how the themes get progressively darker. The only other Thompson I have read was a short story in a collection of best American Noir. It had a similarly allegorical ending that sort of came out of nowhere. It worked better in the short story, so maybe it was one of Thompson's crutch.

[Paenica]

Hey, as for the very last sentence Nick says in the ending, had anyone else come to a conclusion on what he meant?

I assumed this is the Nick we've known all along, so he couldn't let Buck make him a "normal lousy person" meaning he can't live without being Sheriff so he either kills Buck in the end, or helps him frame Ken. The town obviously needs Nick (The Devil, Jesus & Judas all-in-one). I can't imagine what he's saying is that he's giving up and letting Buck bring him in as the murderer.

The final words are:

"I decided I don't no more know what to do than if I was just another lousy human being!"

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I think he’s saying he’s NOT just a normal human being. He’s WAY something else.

[Paenica]

But isn't he just talking about being a Sheriff? I didn't take it as he's literally some devil, jesus god-thing. I know he thinks of himself as this, but I wasn't interpreting it as he isn't human at all.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I think in his mind, he’s a demon. It could be a delusion. But he’s a tempting demon in his mind, I believe. Superior and above the common herd, above the law and moral rules.

[Paenica]

I agree, I guess I was wondering what others thought of that last sentence and where he would go from there. The more I think about it, the more likely he either kills Buck or works with him to get Ken and continue his legacy of King Sheriff.