You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
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Corona Chat
Sandra wrote: "Kristie wrote: "This is how I feel too. I don't understand why people can't just follow the guidelines. They really aren't that difficult."No, they aren't that difficult. And we still have Christmas to come..."
I know. Scary. I just edited my comment to make sure it's clear which part of this I'm referring to. I know a lot of this is difficult, but not gathering in groups and wearing masks shouldn't be.
I understood, yes. This is not going to last forever and no big holiday gatherings only for this year shouldn't be impossible to accomplish. Aren't people scared? If not for themselves at least for other members of their families that might be in a weaker state of health.
You would think so, but it seems that everyone has the "it won't happen to me" mentality. I've heard the "I'm not sick" or "no one there was sick" comments a lot. I keep explaining that you can still be contagious before you feel sick or without feeling sick at all. It doesn't seem to sink in. I think people still think it isn't that bad or it's just like the flu or only a small percentage die (What?!). Unfortunately, it was handled poorly from the beginning and presented wrong. People are so burned out from this year. No one wants to go back to taking more precautions. Thank goodness a vaccination is in sight. It can't get here soon enough.
Sorry forr not explaining better Saar. Our government is going down the route of treaating each region differently depending on cases and the impact on the hospitals there. So each region has to folloew different rules. They've created a 3 tier ssystem. Tier 1 is 'medium risk', tier 2 is 'high risk' and tier 3 is 'very high risk'. At all levels, shops and schools remain open and we can meet up with 6 people outside. Tier one can also meet inside but in the higher tiers there is no mixing of households inside. In tier 2, pubs close unless they serve substantial meals and then alcohol can only be served with food. In tier 3, all restaurants aand pubs have to close except for takeaway and hotels close too. There are other rules but i can't remember them all off the top of my head. Most of the country have been put in tiers 2 and 3. I'm not sure how much good tier 2 restrictions are at containing the virus. It seems like so much stuff is open. The schools are a massive problem but they won't close them now.
Thanks for explaining, Sarah, it seems a very complicated system.
No worries Saar. Yes it is very complicated and it just got more complicated today with the addition of tier 4. There has been a new strain of the virus in circulation here in London, the south and south east of the country. It is spreading much faster than the original strain. A large section of the country has been put into tier 4 today which is basically lockdown. My family are in that area. For those in tier 4, there is no household mixing, so no Christmas celebrations. The government announced last month that up to 3 households could mix for 5 days over Christmas but this week, the guidance changed and now today it has tightened even more. For those not in tier 4, we can still mix with other households but only for Christmas day. We are also being advised not to move around the country and to stay local. Wales has just gone into lockdown today as well, again because of this new strain. Crazy!!! It doesn't really change what we're doing as we had not planned to do anything for Christmas anyway. Our neighbour who formed a bubble with us a few months back as she has not family will come for Christmas dinner but that's it.
Things are really looking dire again with high case numbers and high deaths each day. I had started to feel optimistic now the vaccine is starting to be rolled out but realistically, we still have months of this before things go back to normal.
I read about the strain in the papers today. Some days it's hard to stay positive. It seems like this nightmare is never going to end.We are not seeing anyone for Christmas and not even attending Mass. We are trying to make this season as special as possible for the kids. Yesterday we made gingerbread houses. We do them every year but we put extra effort this year in making them special. We even surprised them puting Christmas light around their bunk bed, and things like that. The 16 inches (40 cm) of snow last Wednesday has helped a lot. They've been playing outside every day.
Sarah wrote: "No worries Saar. Yes it is very complicated and it just got more complicated today with the addition of tier 4. There has been a new strain of the virus in circulation here in London, the south a..."
Sarah, this new strain is very worrying and I just hope the vaccine will prove effective against it. It must be frustrating, to say the least, to be heading back into a full lockdown. My english family are all in London area. Petes lot are in Swindon and are okay for time being.
The numbers here are on the increase but way lower than the UK. Our government has lowered the restrictions till the new year but our medical professionals are basically saying that's crazy, ignore them and stay at home. Talk about mixed signals! We'll going to stay home and, hopefully, keep safe.
@Sandra, that sounds so cosy!
Here in the US it is still all up to the governor’s trying to save lives. People want to impeach our MI governor, yet she’s not doing as extreme measures as other states. Insane! Sounds like Biden is going to have us all wear masks when he becomes President.
We're not far from Swindon Margo! About 30 minutes drive! Yes the new strain is very worrying in relation to whether the vaccine will work on it. I guess they are working on it.Totally Sandra. Your more festive traditions thiis year sound wonderful. It's definitely all about making the mostt of whaat you've got
Here, we have no control in people behaviour, especially youngsters. Like Kristie said, it won't happen to me etc. But they don't realize, they might be the carrier, and it's dangerous. My cousin is one of the reckless and ignorant example. She's going home on 25th and when her governor said people came back from holiday before D +7 New Year should be quarantined, she easily said, she'll come back on D +10. She doesn't even think about the sick elderly at home. Nothing can't stop her and it's frustrating.Back then, we might think the virus won't reach our circle, but it does. Some of my neighbor were infected and healed. I might got too, unconsciously. But since the hospital is so full, I'm isolating myself at home. My sister and his husband who live in another island also got it. They are very strict keeping the protocol, but still got infected. Luckily their little boy didn't get it. It seems like they got it from the part time baby sitter, cause she and her family like to go out and gather with people.
About the vaccine, it's finally here but people still are scared to try. First, maybe because the idea of putting the virus in our body. Two, the funny part, we bought it from China, but China use the one from Germany. And the gov easily said, we've already bought it, so yeah.
The new strain sounds concerning. My sister is an ER nurse and got her vaccine today. I'm happy for her and relieved. I know she's been stressed the last few months.
I've heard about the new strain yesterday, but the scientists are saying that it's normal that a virus changes. It's more contagious, but not more deadly or dangerous, what I've heard from the reports.Also, I'm pro vaccin, but it's worrying that it's only effective for a maximum of 7 months and you can still pass the virus on, but not as fast. F.ex. if it was 5 people you give it to, it will now be 2. And I don't have really confidence in the vaccin. Normally, the test results for side effects are shown after 2 years and now, they don't know even what the side results are, beside the ones you get from the flu vaccin. I thought things would finally to clear up a bit...
I don't want to be negative, but it's difficult. One of my collegues is infected 3 weeks ago and now she's in a coma. She's not getting better, but it's not worsening also.
Last Monday my son got 8 years. There was no kid's party, no family...It's hard to explain it to him. We've got no plans for Christmas. My grandmother is our only contact person, so she's coming to dinner.
My friend is also an ER nurse, she always wears the PPE and has to do a LDR with her baby. Can't imagine how stressful her days.I read that corona is a common flu, it can be mild, or lethal like SARS and MERS. Both are corona virus as well. And since it has RNA for its genetic code, it's prone to has an error aka mutayed. The error in letter might not change the character of virus, but the misspelling can change the virus a lot. Maybe like from pandemic to endemic. (that's what I learned from my ebola book). My sister said the virus there is kinda different with the one in mainland. Like Saar said, it's more contagious but also more curable. A nurse even told her that he/she got infected twice already with minor symptoms.
I think that's really subjective, Aya. Sorry. Some people are getting very minor symptoms. Some people are getting life long complications. Or worse. Mutations are not going to make the virus less of an issue. As Saar said, the problem with mutations might mean the vaccines are less effective for long term. But we do deal with coronaviruses that mutate quickly due to the huge amount of people they infect every year - eg influenza or The Flu where we all have to be immunised every year due to the mutations. The problem here with Covid is mapping those mutations quickly and then developing a vaccine quick enough for us all.
We've had an outbreak here in the Northern Beaches of Sydney. They are trying to work out how big it is and what they need to do. It's at 30 people per day, which I know is piddly compared to all of you. But they are trying to stomp on it quickly. Just hoping it doesn't lockdown all of NSW as we are hopefully going to Lexx's brother's house on the beach (200km from Sydney) for Christmas. Although I will be avoiding the major towns on the coast.
P.S. Sorry if I misunderstood you :). I don't think you were downplaying the virus at all. Just sounded like you were saying that the mutations are making it less of a threat.
Yes, they are saying the new strain is not more dangerous but more contagius. Still more contagius means more people sick at the same time, and more people in ICU. Nobody knows much at this point, though.
I think we on 30000 cases per day at the momeent and around 500 deaths per day. Crazy crazy.With reegards to vaccine Aya, it is not a live vaccine so you''re not actually injecting the virus into you. I think everyone expected a mutation sooner or later. Not sure it's more curable. It's basically the same severity wise, but more viralant.
Sorry to hear about your colleague Saar.
Jannene wrote: "Here in the US it is still all up to the governor’s trying to save lives. People want to impeach our MI governor, yet she’s not doing as extreme measures as other states. Insane! ..."Seems like there is a lot of insane going around our country right now. I can't tell you how often I have to just shake my head.
I was wondering, is the covid vaccination something we will end up having to get every year due to mutations in the virus, like the flu vaccination? Or are we still thinking that it is a one-time thing (2 injections) maybe with a follow up eventually and that's it?
I don't know anything about virus, pandemics or vaccines, but it looks more like the flu than other diseases. I would say that it mutates quick enough to make vaccines outdated soon. Still, this is a new kind of vaccine, so who knows.
Kristie wrote: "I was wondering, is the covid vaccination something we will end up having to get every year due to mutations in the virus, like the flu vaccination? Or are we still thinking that it is a one-time t..."I don"t think they know yet how long immunity lasts. So may have to have the injection regularly. Throw multiple strains in to the mix and that complicates things is my guess.
Sandra wrote: "I don't know anything about virus, pandemics or vaccines, but it looks more like the flu than other diseases. I would say that it mutates quick enough to make vaccines outdated soon. Still, this is..."I wonder if they'll combine it with the regular flu vaccine and we'll get a cocktail every year.
I was shocked to hear on the Irish news last night that our government has decided to ban all flights from england. I think most of Europe is expecting similar announcements. This is unprecedented. I'd imagine that the new strain is already here as there's so much traffic between our two countries, especially at Christmas. I don't know what this this is supposed to achieve.
Ahhhh, all flights and traffic in and out of UK has been banned, including freight. So no food in or out. What a mess. Mass lorry queues in France and here in UK as they can't board the boats. The drivers are unlikely to make it home for xmas now. Now everyone is panic buying and the supetmarkets are heaving, worse than what they are normally like for xmas. I had planned to wait until wednesday to do my xmas food shopping but I sent Rob quick to get some essentials so we can at least have a xmas dinner. I'll venture out tomorrow for the rest if possible. I think the strain is in Northen Ireland so will likely spread south Margo. But I don't think it is as rampant as it is here right now. Our cases have doubled in a week with no let up.
I find this reaction very strange. To start with nobody should be so surprised with a new strain. That is how coronavirus behave and it happens with the flu, and I understand this is more serious, but the people who supposedly knows about virus should have been expecting for this to happen. Covid has been around for a year now, so I would say this shouldn't be a surprise, and this reaction shows again how we are all the time catching up with the situation, and never foreseeing.That said, I read yesterday in BBC that cases of this strain have been found also in Denmark, Australia, Netherlands, and South Africa, that we know. I understand measures should be taken, but it is probably too late, again.
I also think that this is also political. This European overreaction sounds also a punishment for the UK now that the Brexit agreements are more difficult than ever. I might be too cynical.
Sandra wrote: "I find this reaction very strange. To start with nobody should be so surprised with a new strain. That is how coronavirus behave and it happens with the flu, and I understand this is more serious, ..."I agree. One of the problem with this crisis is that politics was involved. That made for some bad decisions all over. But this is the world we live in. My town have been in the red zone since september, Starting December 25th (to Jan 11 --we will see) all non essential services will be closed. At least they learned and libraries will still provided non-contact loans. There is a fine of $1000 ($500 for minors) for anyone involved in a party. Yet, that woman allowed her teenager to throw a party last week. Seriously.
My cynical self expects there will be "basement parties" with people getting dropped off or walking to the host place. This will lead to a rise in cases and you can forget the Jan 11 reopening. I hope I am wrong.
My family will have a zoom thing.
Esther, seeing how people behaved here in the US in Thanksgiving, I do not expect any responsible attitude during Christmas. It is what it is...
Sandra wrote: "I find this reaction very strange. To start with nobody should be so surprised with a new strain. That is how coronavirus behave and it happens with the flu, and I understand this is more serious, ..."That's exacty what we said Sandra, it is EU trying to push UK into a deal. That's why we were so shocked yesterday. Our government was told to cancel UK flights. It's going to backfire on us though. We will face the same shortages as britain. So much of our supply chain come via there.
Ah well, the shelves will be stripped of toilet loo rolls again! We won't starve.
I read an article from the WHO that said the vaccine will cover this new strain.
Janice wrote: "I read an article from the WHO that said the vaccine will cover this new strain."That's a relief!
Sarah wrote: "Janice wrote: "I read an article from the WHO that said the vaccine will cover this new strain."That's a relief!"
Yes, very good to hear!
Janice wrote: "I read an article from the WHO that said the vaccine will cover this new strain."Thank goodness.
Margo wrote: "Ah well, the shelves will be stripped of toilet loo rolls again! We won't starve...."Ha, I don't think I have to worry in Canada but I did just stock up again. I am set for at least 6 months now. :)
Dawn wrote: "Margo wrote: "Ah well, the shelves will be stripped of toilet loo rolls again! We won't starve...."Ha, I don't think I have to worry in Canada but I did just stock up again. I am set for at least..."
I decided after the last shortage that I wasn't going to be stuck again, so I bought a big pack from Costco. Then a few days later, I bought another. One went downstairs in storage.
I did the same, Janice. We just had a shortage again around here, but it was short lived. I think other people probably had the same idea.
That sucks about the travel ban, particularly with the lack of notice. I am honestly surprised and bewildered why on earth this hasn't happened earlier. It's the first thing we and NZ did in Feb/March. Ireland and Great Britain are islands. You only have shared borders with yourselves, on an island. We're all sitting here completely confused why you haven't put a restriction on the movement of people earlier.
And really, I can understand Ireland not as the problems that could cause with the EU, but wasn't there a whole thing about the UK leaving the EU so they could lock down their borders and keep people out? I swear I remember something about that...
Sarcasm aside, I have so much sympathy for the chaos this is causing before Christmas and the mental health of everyone involved. It is a really, honestly, horrible situation.
LOL Rusalka, I think I remember something about that too 🤔 Be careful what you wish for!Joking aside, we were watching UK news last night and the escalation in new covid cases is scary. In some areas the numbers have doubled over night.
Sarah, stay safe.
I agree that the timing is really a kick in the feels for most people, but on the flip side I don’t even want to think about the numbers coming out the other side of a non-lockdown Christmas 😞 I think we were right around the 280 mark just before our “lockdown” started, and we are now just over 200. But, there are so many people here that are angry about everything, and vocal about not staying home and alone for Christmas and New Years that there will be no sense in even looking at the numbers until two weeks into the new year, but our lockdown ends on Jan 10 😞 My receipt for survival is to stay home, and read a good book 📚 lolStay safe everybody 😊
Yes there has been a doubling in many places seemingly overnight. And they think this strain affects kids worse than the other one did too. I can't see the schoolss opening back up after christmas. Hospitals are starting to struggle now and Wales have had to call the army in as the ambulance service can't cope. I think it's going to be a dire few weeks. I see we're running out of tests now due to supply disruption. And test centres in tier 4 are at capacity.
Yes we didn''t stop travel early enough at the beginning, then we did, then we opened it back up again. Doh!
Our government are a joke.
I'm at the point now that I don't have any sympathy for people who get COVID and chose not to follow the mandates - masks, stay at home etc. This isn't new anymore. We know what to do. I was reading some data in the New York Times and it showed that by March the vaccine will have saved 26,000 lives in the U.S. If every one wore a mask we will have saved 56,000 lives - dong both will make COVID a memory.
One of my closest and dearest friends passed away several weeks ago (cancer) and it broke my heart that we couldn't do a memorial service or that I couldn't hug and hold her son who I have known since grade school - he's grown with a family of his own, but is still a child of my heart. And I blame our government's poor response and the people not following the mandates.
I know I have lost a few friends over the wearing of a mask because it had turned political, but you know what I don't care. My family is safe and this isn't forever.
Thanks for letting me vent. I didn't realize that I was still holding on to these feelings.
I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday and my advice to you - eat as many Christmas cookies as you want :)
Jayme wrote: "I know I have lost a few friends over the wearing of a mask because it had turned political, but you know what I don't care. My family is safe and this isn't forever."It's interesting how many times I comment that this is only temporary and people respond with, "Do you really think so?" They seem to think it's permanent. One woman, whom I no longer associate with, thinks that a mask mandate is just a prelude to a dictatorship. She thinks people who are so willing to give up their rights don't deserve any. On one hand, she's terrified of a dictatorship, and on the other, she's advocating it.
Janice wrote: "I decided after the last shortage that I wasn't going to be stuck again, so I bought a big pack from Costco. Then a few days later, I bought another. One went downstairs in storage. "We also stocked a few packs when the store was full again. We also bought some other things during the months when things were normal. Let's say if we usually buy 5 boxes of pasta, we bought 6, so we have in storage a reserve if things got bad again.
It got worrisome at some point when shelves started to get empty. Most people will make dinner with one box of pasta, but we need three. And usually restrictions do not consider how many people live in a household. One pack or box is for everyone, no matter how many people you are feeding. One bottle of sanitizer was one if you house had 4 hands or 20 like mine... I'm better prepared now.
Sarah wrote: "And they think this strain affects kids worse than the other one did too."This is scary.
I was thinking of people in your situation when we went through the phase of shelves being empty and people only being allowed to buy 1 or 2 of everything. It didn't make a lot of sense to me that everyone could only buy the same amount. My husband and I are the only two people in our house and we could buy the same as a large family. Also, if most of what you want is unavailable and you are only allowed a small quantity of what is available, then how are you supposed to buy enough to not have to go out into the stores multiple times a week? That always bothered me. They would tell us to stay home and shop less frequently, but then we couldn't get what we needed when we were there and would have to go back.
I also think a lot about the parents who have to work and have their kids home right now. I don't know how people are expected to work and help their young kids with schooling full time. I was a single parent for a number of years and I don't know how I would have done it all.
Janice, I'm so surprised at how some people have responded to this situation. I also say that it is temporary and people look at me like I'm nuts. They keep wanting to call it the "new normal" and although I don't know that things will ever go back to just the way they were (things like this change people and our priorities, etc), I don't think we are at any normal stage yet. Also, I don't understand the major concern with losing your rights by having to wear a mask. You aren't allowed to go into a store without shoes on or a shirt, but no one complains about that. How do you lose more rights by having to wear a mask than you do by having to wear shoes?
Kristie wrote: "I was thinking of people in your situation when we went through the phase of shelves being empty and people only being allowed to buy 1 or 2 of everything. It didn't make a lot of sense to me that ..."Exactly. And on the other hand if I go to the store and there are only 5 boxes of pasta left I feel really bad taking 3. My husband and I have had disagreements over this. His position is that we need 3 boxes, we are not hoarding, so it's ok to take them. But I say that we can try to manage with 2 and add something else to the meal. I feel bad thinking in 5 minute all the boxes will be gone and someone won't get any. Then my husband will say (and he is right) that there is a lot of people hoarding food even when there is no reason for doing it and not worrying about how people like us are going to feed our 8 kids. So well, when things came back to normal we agreed in slowly storage a reserve.
That's smart, Sandra. Having a little bit stocked up is a good idea, especially with a large family. I don't really understand the general hoarding though. We have been doing this for almost a year now and I think it's pretty clear that there will be stores that remain open. You don't need 5 years worth of toilet paper or so much food that it will expire before you can eat it all. I understand that it's a pandemic and it can be scary, but it isn't the apocalypse.
That reminds me of an article I read a month ago or so about the number of preps growing both in the US and Europe. We are not talking about preps movie-style, prepared for an apocalypse, but people who after seeing the governments failing in managing extreme situations decide to start learning and getting ready to face emergency situations by themselves. The pandemic definitely made numbers of preps grow but it is a trend form even before. Hurricanes destroying cities and people not happy of the governments response, or even Puerto Rico without electricity for 6 months after a Hurricane, etc. These preps do not build bunkers, or learn how to hunt, but they learn first aid, hoard supplies, learn everything about catastrophes management, and they also form communities for support.It seems there are about 20 millions of preps in the world right now, half of them in the US.
You'll love this one...!! A book club & more
Books mentioned in this topic
Catch-22 (other topics)The Yellow Wallpaper and Other Stories (other topics)
No, they aren't that difficult. And we still have Christmas to come...