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Cards of Grief
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"Cards of Grief" by Jane Yolen (BR)
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I believe Kaa and Hank are joining me on this BR. Any other takers?Jane Yolen is a prolific author of SF, Fantasy and children's books. She is also a prolific poet. She is a Grandmaster of The SFWA and of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Poetry Association.
What I've read so far of Cards of Grief shows her lyrical, poetic writing first and foremost. I like it. What do people think of the opening of the book? Did it draw you in or make it difficult?
I started this a couple days ago. I like the concept, both in terms of the world-building around grief and the framing of the expedition from earth. But oof, I found the way the two "races" and their body types were described to be pretty uncomfortable, which was compounded by the fact that the MC is known to be special because she is tall and "angular" compared to others of her race.
Mod
We just did Yolen as an "author of the month" in our Children's Books group. I like some of her work much better, and some I find disappointing. I have this ready to go; I can start it tonight; I hope I don't dnf.I will say the title does not appeal. But this cover does:
I'm intrigued but I'm also traveling so mayn't have much reading time; I may have to necropost later. :-)
I finished. My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... (note that I didn't like the book and the review is definitely spoilery)(view spoiler)
Mod
Kaa, I'm about halfway, and I agree with you entirely, but otoh I am totally fascinated by the ritualized grieving, and the consequence thereof that (view spoiler) I want to learn more about that.The "ectomorphs" vs. the "endomorphs" didn't feel like racism to me so much as classism. I'm hoping Yolen goes somewhere with that.
Remember too that the 'natives' are described as 'humanoid' so no matter how much they seem to resemble Earthlings, they are not us. (Not that there is an 'us' anyway, but I suppose that's a whole 'nother discussion.)
Reading & thinking a bit further. I trust Yolen to be smart and to not be racist or classist or anything herself. So I guess she's probably showing us a perspective to get us to think about these issues. Not pleasant reading, but not pleasant to see such irl either. You never know what ugly thoughts your 'nice' neighbor or salesclerk or political leader might secretly have, after all.
I tried to give Yolen the benefit of the doubt, but for me the distinctions she used were so unpleasant that I would have needed a much stronger justification for using them (and a much stronger challenge to the supposed innateness of the associated judgements) than I felt she ever provided. I read ectomorph vs endomorph as thin vs fat, which you're right is fatphobic rather than racist, but later in the book (view spoiler).
Done. Imo it got better and better. It's much richer than all that. So much to unpack. The beliefs of the characters, and their prejudices, are their own, not Yolen's. There are complex reasons for each facet of the world-building; it's all crafted with care. Hard to read until the end, I absolutely agree. But then I read of the last two cards (view spoiler)and I have even more to think about. This could be worth a reread.
(view spoiler)
Now the ebook has an afterward... off to read that....
Note is brief. Mentions, for one thing, that Dr. Z is a real person, a friend. Includes a timeline which gives ages of characters... a big help in keeping track.Ok, I highlighted a few things so I'll record them here:
"Imagine not being able to distinguish art from artifice" muses our favorite (?) prince.
Not until halfway through do we learn that not only do the 'natives' not laugh, but neither do they (view spoiler) (though there were clues earlier).
An older person, given a fresh reason to live, is "like a gourd with a new candle inside. For a while all you see is the light; you do not notice, until it is too late, that the gourd has rotted from the inside out."
Thank you Diane for this buddy read. It's a thought-provoking story with both What If and Sense of Wonder.I appreciate that it fits so many of this group's themes: written by a woman, post-scarcity, no 'bad guys', Bechdel test and beyond...
I will be using it for my challenge in the the Women of the Future group, too.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, Cheryl! I'll have to think about some of the things that stood out for you a bit more.
Mod
It is thought provoking, no obvious bad guys but the entire ruling race is kind of nausea inducing. The observers are also not fitting my observer "mold" but I think I am just getting to the part that deals with this issue?
Hank wrote: " the entire ruling race is kind of nausea inducing..."That being part of one of the themes, yeah.
It was interesting to read the differing opinions on the book. Thank you Kaa and Cheryl to share them with us. I don't recall the details, but from my feelings I tend towards Cheryl's impression.
Mod
I agree that it gets better later in the book. I have started fitting in the overall world building with how the characters act, I am just not sure what conclusions I am supposed to draw yet...
Hank wrote: "For sure, I was just hoping for some obvious moralizing, i.e. that kind of power imballance and attitude leads to a complete collapse of society. It seems (so far) like that theme is in there to just make me queasy. "Yep, this was exactly the issue for me.
Hank, Kaa, I'm a bit bemused, tbh. You seem to be saying that you actually want a didactic, preachy book that tells you just what to think. I must not be understanding you correctly... I've never met any avid reader who looks for that in a novel.
There's a lot of territory between "icky for the sake of being icky" and "preachy", imo (although honestly I'd take being preachy about bigotry over reproducing bigotry uninterrogated, which is what this often feels like). The biggest thing, for me, is that she could have easily portrayed this society as being very unpleasant without recreating the same hierarchies we have in our own society, with the added bonus that in this case they are *biologically justified* because these two races are actually different types of people.
I meant to get on with this (especially because all your comments make me curious), but there is no audiobook of it, and I'm reeeeaaally bad at getting through ebooks, so it's taking me a bit.
Mod
Right after I posted, I was thinking the same thing! And no, my general feeling is that I like being pushed into a hall of doors but then choosing which one to go through.
My particular issue with this one is that the general "badness" that Yolen set up with the ruling class seemed distracting to what what she wanted to say. Or that was really two books with disparate themes that didn't support or compliment each other.
Some hopefully concise thoughts....
The ending was better for me than the beginning and it is probably a 4 star read overall.
My most important takeaway that I think Yolen was saying was (view spoiler)
Probably Yolen wanted to show that sex without love (or drugs) is unappealing but instead it came off as a class entitlement and brutality of the rulers, which for me detracted from the beautiful parts of the book.
(view spoiler)
You both make good points! Thank you sincerely for sharing your perspectives. It would have been a better book if we had beta read it and given Yolen advice, eh? :)
Mod
Mod
Like Cheryl, I enjoyed this book. I see absolutely where one could have a big problem with this book. Yes, some of it is a product of its time, but I think Yolen erred on the side of sparseness rather than exposition. I've read other books and many many poems by Yolen and she is anything but sexist, racist, classist or fatist. I think the clear correlation to stereotypes in our own world was meant to cast a light on how ridiculous it is. But she could've expanded on that and the book would still not have been too long.
I thought the whole sexual thing was a thought experiment, "what would happen if men were only fertile for a brief period?" What would that do to a society? How would that work? Again a bit more unpacking would've helped, but then it's nice not to be spoon-fed.
As is true of Yolen's prose, there were many quotable bits and if you look at my review you'll see some bits that I highlighted.
Sorry it took me so long to get to reading this book, even if I was the one who initiated the Buddy Read. I read slowly and then I just had to finish This Alien Shore before starting this one.
Diane wrote: "a bit more unpacking would've helped, but then it's nice not to be spoon-fed...."Well put; I agree.
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This brief book by Jane Yolen (coming in at 208 pages) has been nominated for a group read a couple of times at least. It came in 2nd the first time for "Grand Masters not on our bookshelf" and then was not chosen in a second poll of Runner-ups. This BR is for those of us who would like to read it anyway!
Please mark what chapter/page you are up to and use spoiler tags when discussing anything beyond general impressions or progress.
Let's talk about it!