Group Reads Discussion - Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg

[SRC Moderator, Moderator]

This is the discussion thread for the Spring 2020 Group Reads Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg by Irin Carmon and Shana Knizhnik. Please post your comments here. This thread is not restricted to those choosing this book for task 20.10, feel free to join in the discussion. Warning- spoilers ahead!

The requirement for task 20.10: You must participate in the book's discussion thread below with at least one post about the contents of the book or your reaction to the book after you have read the book.

[Laura H L]

Laurah30

I just finished reading Notorious RBG and I believe her legacy will be the way she has stood up for women's rights and lived her life in a way that mirrored her belief in equality.

I had watched the documentary and then read the book and found the two matched up very well.

RBG has had a remarkable run. Her husband was an amazing support to her and I think that when we look at the idea of professional woman who is successful in her career and successful in her family life there usually are significant supports that make that happen. It reminds me of a book I read by Anne-Marie Slaughter, "Unfinished Business", where she talks about the tremendous support she had from her husband as he took on more responsibilities for the home as she pursued her career. She also commented that because they were wealthy they could hire help which was invaluable. The reason I mention this is sometimes younger women may feel this pressure to pursue the career and the family and may feel overwhelmed by stretching themselves too thin. RBG vocalized the importance of equality in roles for both men and women. We need more men like Marty and I think those gender roles are changing with each generation.

[Dee]

one of my favorite movies that i saw last year was "on the basis of sex" which chronicles early portions of RBG career through her first case before a state surpreme court - for the case where she argued that a male should be able to claim caretaker benefits for tax deductions

so i'm enjoying the book so far - i'm listening to the audio and the narrator makes me chuckle

[Simone]

Well, to be honest, before reading this book, I only knew RBG by name. I had no clue that she had such a huge impact on women's and civil rights! I love how she wasn't scared to butt heads with the men in her profession and stand up for everything she believed was not a privilege but a right and how Marty was not afraid to support her in any way he could (I felt for her when she lost him). I thought it was interesting that she was involved in law in Sweden as well. After reading this book, I have to say that she deserves the crown she is wearing on the cover!!!

[TraceyL]

I'm not an American and while I've heard the name Ruth Bader Ginsburg before, I had no idea who she was. I also have no idea how the Supreme Court works in any country. I went into this book with an open mind and hoping to learn something.

RBG was a badass. However, this book relied on readers having a general knowledge of how the court system works and what the Justices do. I got confused several times throughout this book. There were a lot of cases RBG worked on which sounded cool and had a major impact on women's lives, but I had so many unanswered questions. Why did she get this case? How did it get to the Supreme Court in the first place? Why did it go through, or not? Who are the other justices and why do they talk about politics so much? Shouldn't a judge be as politically neutral as humanly possible?

I can only recommend this book to people who already have a grasp on the justice system and just want to learn more about RBG as a person.

[Esther]

I have to agree with Tracey. Not being particularly conversant with the branches of the US government and how they interact it was difficult to understand the hype around RBG. Obviously she’s a pretty impressive no-nonsense octogenarian- but why exactly did the rulings she made spark a ‘movement’?

I love her approach to life though- I hope I’m still doing push-ups at 80.

[Aprilleigh]

I'm seriously considering buying a copy of this book for my nieces. They've got good parents who believe they can do anything, but the example set by this tiny woman and her approach to life is something I'd like them to have in the backs of their heads as they approach their adult lives.

RBG is amazing, and she accomplished all of it without the hubris that frequently coincides with her record and reputation. She's my kind of feminist because she believes equality is good for all of us, and you have to admire her for making friendships based on mutual interests rather than focusing primarily on the areas of disagreement. As someone who has friends on the other end of the political spectrum, and intends to keep them even in these divisive times, this impressed me almost more than her legal accomplishments.

I hope she stays healthy and active for at least another decade, because we sorely need her, her commitment to the work, and her voice. Long live RBG!

[Dee]

i haven't watched it all yet - but for ppl that have questions about how the SC process works:
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sual...

i finished this up last night - listening to Andi Arndt narrator RBG's story was great - she is a favorite audiobook narrator of mine - honestly even as a US citizen understanding how the court picks cases is something i don't understand - from what i've read, it seems that if there is a split decision on any of the courts of appeals (i.e. 10th court rules one way and 4th rules another way on cases involving similar legislation)

i will admit a guilty pleasure of reading opinions of the supreme court and other courts online - because i'm a geek that way - lol

I think her relationship with Scalia showed how two diametrically opposite ppl in beliefs can still be friends and get along - which in my perception is something that is often missing in today's society (the my way or the highway belief)

[Andy]

Andy P.
The subject of Women's Rights though important and should be addressed , many advocates seem more interested in the fight than actually achieving the goal and rectifying the inequalities. Ruth Bader Ginsburg should be commended for addressing the latter rather than the former. The author of this book has cited numerous fights that RBG has fought and won which should be a lesson to us all.

[Karen D]

Loved this! I knew some about RBG but had no idea of everything she went through and accomplished before getting to the Supreme Court. I thought it was really interesting hearing about her opinions on Roe v. Wade, it's easy to just hear that someone was against something and not fully understanding the logic behind the opinion.

Such a great read, I'm looking forward to pulling up the biopic on her now!

[Cat]

I enjoyed this as a lighter approch to biography, though I do agree with others that a more in depth exploration of the case choices & mechanics of the court would add deeper understanding. That said, that wouldn’t then be this book!

I was confused about the Sweden interlude ring so bigged up, as it was never drawn back into later decisions or thinking, so I didn’t see the ongoing importance (beyond the initial boost to confidence at that point in her careerj

[Sara]

RBG is a feminist hero and an unlikely pop culture phenomenon. I have socks with her face and judge gavels on them. This book takes a light approach to biography, discussing the hurdles that she had to overcome to prosper in her career as well as some information about her personal life. One thing that really struck me is that her husband wholeheartedly supported her through their whole lives, which was remarkable for that generation when women were expected to stay at home and raise a family. We all need a Marty Ginsburg in our corner!

The book also quotes extensively from her opinions and arguments in a few cases, and this was actually my favorite part since it lends insight into how she thinks. I appreciate all her hard work over the decades and hope she stays with us for many more years.

[Jen K]

RBG is an amazing lady. Notorious RBG is a glimpse of how the mild mannered and somewhat moderate girl became the feminist icon that she is today. It gives the basics of her personal life as well as the career she built as a lawyer and judge interspersed with excerpts from her briefs and quotes from colleagues. The book is well researched and shows Ruth's plan to slowly build cases to "teach" the judges how to ensure that the law is equal to all. She fought so well and thoughtfully for equality between sexes and races. Also she couldn't have been nearly as successful without her supportive husband which and his care for her and her causes. The book could have been improved with a better narrative but it does let Ruth shine.

[Sarah Ruth]

I am not generally a fan of biographies, so I appreciated this *lighter approach* everyone is referring to. It was a very interesting read, and I enjoyed it much more than I thought. I have actually had this book on my TBR list for a long time, and I kept putting it off, but I am really glad this group read pushed me to finally tackle it.

RBG is a very impressive woman. I love how she lives her own values no matter what others are doing around her.

I also love how she refused to accept that this fight was about "women's rights", that she held strong to the idea that it was about equality for all. I didn't realize that she fought so much for men's equality as well. It puts her in a unique position where even those who might not agree with some of her political stances might understand her more and respect her more if they learned a little more about her. People who immediately want to dismiss anyone who is labeled as a feminist or a women's rights activist would have to re-consider labeling her as that and dismissing her based on her past work for equality in general including men's.

Overall enjoyable read. I learned a lot.

[Tien]

I don't actually know very much about Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if I've heard somewhat about her. So, this proves to be an interesting and educational audiobook. What an amazingly intelligent, motivated, and energetic woman! And what a sad loss to the world as she passed last year. What I truly admire is that she's not fighting for 1 particular cause and/or group but for all humanity. We could all take a page off her book especially in this trying time.

[Bea]

Tien wrote: "I don't actually know very much about Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if I've heard somewhat about her. So, this proves to be an interesting and educational audiobook. What an amazingly intelligent, motiv..."

Tien, she is still living. Her husband died in 2010. And, she has battled cancer, but she is still on the Supreme Court, working at 86.

[Tien]

ah yes, someone's already pointed that out to me. Pretty sure I googled her the night before and i saw an image with a range of years so i just presumed without checking any further 😅

[Sally]

What a fun read! I really enjoyed learning more about Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who I have admired but didn’t know a lot about. I remember when Notorious RBG started and it was fun to have a full book with a similar vibe and energy.

Though I wasn’t a big fan of the appendix, this made me want to know even more about RBG (and Sonia Sotomayor, actually).

[Dee]

Sally wrote: "What a fun read! I really enjoyed learning more about Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who I have admired but didn’t know a lot about. I remember when Notorious RBG started and it was fun to have a full book w..."

This has made me want to learn more about all the SC justices through history - wondering how many have bios out there

[Andy]

Tien wrote: "I don't actually know very much about Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if I've heard somewhat about her. So, this proves to be an interesting and educational audiobook. What an amazingly intelligent, motiv..."

Amen to that,So many people get caught up in the campaign that the causes themselves get lost in the shuffle.

[Lois]

This was a reread for me, but well worth going back to. For those listening to the audiobook, please try to get a chance to look at the hard copy. It is full of photographs and illustrations, including some RBG humor. There are handwritten notes, timelines, tables and charts that explain some of her contributions to important decisions. These extras really make the book accessible and entertaining.
I enjoyed it very much for the second time.

[Jessica]

I have had this one on my TBR for a long time, and I'm very glad I finally read it. I enjoyed reading so much about the cases, in particular. I just love the way she handles herself, especially in dissent. I hope someone has her in a bubble during the current medical crisis because she is just such a voice, and we need more of those right now!!

[Book Concierge]

I listened to the audio and just loved it. Oh, my stars, but this is one HELL of a broad! Go Ruth! I've admired her for some years, but I really enjoyed learning more about her.

I thought the authors did a great job of making this a very approachable biography. It was not heavy, but included every pertinent detail. I loved that they brought out RBG's humor and empathy, as well as her defiance and strong sense of justice.

[Shelby]

While I did enjoy this book I actually found I preferred the movie "On the Basis of Sex." I think in large part because I found the writers style very stripped down and unemotional. It's an easy read of a book, but to me it read more as a recitation of facts that someone has researched rather than a vibrant education on how amazing of a woman RBG is. I felt like the book was very clearly researched and you could tell that they didn't have the time spent in interviews with their subject.

That's not to say that I didn't enjoy the book or learn a lot in the reading of it. I did. I just felt like there was something missing to push it over the top into being an amazing biography. The subject matter carries this story not the writing itself. Of course RBG is amazing and reading this just illuminated how impeccable she is. What she's accomplished in her years in law is just amazing. I found her opinions about Roe vs Wade to be particularly fascinating. I appreciated her feelings that what was needed was a careful approach. She's so meticulous about everything she does. We need more judges like her!

[Book Concierge]

Shelby wrote: "While I did enjoy this book I actually found I preferred the movie "On the Basis of Sex." I think in large part because I found the writers style very stripped down and unemotional. It's an easy re..."

Shelby, I agree that the movie On the Basis of Sex was exceptionally good.

[Dlmrose, Moderator Emeritus]

Dlmrose

I rarely reread books, but I'm glad I reread this one. I find her accomplishments and attitudes inspirational. I have also read Conversations with RBG: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty, and Law and it provided more details in RBG's own words, but I think this book's lighter tone would engage a larger audience.
(And I'm doing an extra 20 push-ups a day in honor of RBG)

[Amy]

Amy B

Huh.
I really wanted to like this book. And then I realized that I feel the way about this book that I felt about the movie Titanic. I have to separate the topic from the telling. I have the highest esteem, respect and love for Ruth Bader Ginsberg - for who she is and what she has done. Just like the Titanic story, you can't help but be moved by the drama of the iceberg, the sinking, the deaths. But in both cases, the telling fell short. The movie Titanic is a sentimental fable, like an unbelievable Harlequin romance of a movie. I rolled my eyes through the whole thing. And this book about RBG was actually difficult to read - at 240 pages, I thought it would be easier and faster, more engaging. Instead, it was really obvious it was written by two people, with the writing swinging from anecdotal to legalese from page to page. And even where it was anecdotal, the story jumped around so much that I had to keep backing up to figure out where I was. "Is she in the Supreme Court yet? Oh, wait, we're back in school?" And then a section on her workout routine? Meh.
I really wanted to love it as much as I love her and I just didn't. But I can still just keep loving her, right? My heart will go on.

[Sarah]

The book was less impressive than its subject, but I still learned a lot, and I didn't feel too disadvantaged by not being from the US and having only a vague idea of its legal system.

The stand-outs for me were how she and Marty had a true marriage of equality; and that it is possible for those of differing political persuasions to be friends.

[SandyL]

SandyL

I really enjoyed this book. I've long admired RBG but didn't know much about her. I wish I could thank her in person for all she's done for the right of people being discriminated against, be it gender, race or sexual orientation. I liked how the book showed how she built her early cases slowly, learning to focus on things that would make things better for all people, not just one subset of society (like benefits for parents, not just mothers.) I really hope she can continue to be healthy and want to continue to serve on the Supreme Court as long as possible (at least through our current administration) for the benefit of all!

[Book Concierge]

SandyL wrote: "SandyL

I really enjoyed this book. I've long admired RBG but didn't know much about her. I wish I could thank her in person for all she's done for the right of people being discriminated against, ..."

Send her a letter. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg c/o U.S. Supreme Court

[Wanda]

This lighter approach to biography was a pleasant read. I have longed admired RBG and this was a succinct introduction into her life and work in the justice system. It has inspired me to read a more in-depth biography.

[Brooke]

I absolutely loved learning more about the iconic RBG. I knew of her accomplishments and opinions of the last few years, but to be honest I didn't know anything about her early life or career. To know how much she bucked the norm and expanded women's rights in such a methodical, practical way makes me admire her even more. I spent 15 years in an industry that was very male-centric, so I could relate to many of her experiences, rejections and comments just because she was a woman. (And if I am honest, she definitely handled it better than I did.)

The book did feel a bit disjointed at times with so many comments scattered among Ginsberg's opinions at the end of each section. But reading this did make me realize I want to read more about her.

[Ed]

I am a close follower of politics and the Supreme Court. (I'm a lawyer myself.) I have admired RBG for quite some time...but it was a good experience to read about her from a more personal point of view. Since I agree with most of her Constitutional views it did come as a surprise to see how she and Antonin Scalia were such good friends. I hope, but fear not, that I could similarly overcome my deep political prejudices as she did. (Family is one thing...but a work colleague! LOL)
Anyway...this was a well-written, thoughtful and thought-provoking read. Long live RBG!

[Amy]

Amy FL

This book was like RBG herself in that it wasn't preachy or overly emotional. While she took on some of the most controversial decisions (women's rights, abortion, gay marriage), she did so by taking a "slow and steady wins the race" approach. She is a brilliant woman who doesn't need to prove her intelligence by having the loudest voice or being the most argumentative. There is much to be learned from her example.

[Janet F]

I enjoyed listening to the audiobook from the library and had a phone conversation with my 90 yr old former neighbor/friend about it. He said he'd heard about the book on NPR & perhaps might like to listen to his first audiobook. He lost his visual reading ability in Dec, is now on lockdown in his independent living residence, had never used an electronic device like an iPod or cellphone. After many challenges I delivered a hotspot connected with a Echo Dot signed up to Audible and added RBG book. When he finally figured out how and was will to command 'Alexa' he started listening. His first comment was 'Well it's rather dull with lots of facts and dates', lol! but he's plowed through it and will probably finish it today. I'll need to reread it if he wants to start discussing it in depth especially now that I own a copy! I guess I'll also need to find another book for him to listen to.