To Kill a Mockingbird
discussion
What does Scout refer to her father as Atticus?
It is a great question you ask. I think it is a literary method to show Atticus is not conventional and did not raise his children in a conventional manner. Harper Lee needs to show that Atticus does not think like the rest of the South and that is important to the story. By Atticus being unconventional, it gives the story the abilitiy to show why Scout looks at the situation differently than others around her.
It says in the beginning of the book i think that he was never a very personal man to begin with. Like during the courthouse scene when Atticus removed his tie that it was the most "naked" his children had ever seen him before. Throughout the book you can see that he's a good father (in my opinion at least), but still very removed.
Ooh... GOOD CATCH, dude. I never really thought about that.In the Deep South of that era, kids would NEVER have done such a thing. He'd have been referred to as "Papa", or the kids would have been viewed as mutants at best, and possibly just smacked silly.
Personally, I never saw anyone refer to their parents by their first name that way unless they were thoroughly contemptuous of them, which was uncommon but not at all unheard of (particularly if the parents were abusive).
Definitely raises questions about the author... Did she just let that get by her, or was it deliberate, and if so, why?
I'll offer three explanations and let you choose.1. Just because. When a good author writes a character they will often include details that aren't necessary for the plot. This helps to make the characters seem more credible and real. They are not just there to drive the story ... the illusion is that they existed before the story and will continue to exist afterwards.
2. On a slightly deeper level, many of the characters in TKAM have pet names - eg Scout, Boo, Jem. This is a world where names can be changed - where people can choose their own names or have names chosen for them. Names are important, especially when we are talking about racial stereotypes.
3. In a novel about equality, what would signify equality more than an adult allowing their children to call them by their first names and not as sir or Pa or some other?
I had this question on my mind when I started reading the story. I guess it is just to show how Atticus encourages equality in and out of his house because the author highlights this fact (that Atticus is the only person in the county that is the same in his private life and in public) in the narration several times.But, this equality that Atticus advocates is not absolute (or name it whatever you think is suitable to the context) because even though his children call him by his first name, they still refer to him in many times in the story as "Sir." So, let's say it is an equality with respect to social roles .. maybe
All good thoughts on the issue. I figured there was a deeper reason why Lee chose to have the children address their father this way. I choose to like the equality angle and making Atticus's character distinct from folks in that community.
Atticus definitely marched to his own tune! He lost his beloved wife when the children were very young and in his grief, I believe he buried himself in his work, leaving his faithful housekeeper, Calpurnia to raise and nurture Scout and Jem, along with the influence of his sister who was determined to refine the "Unruly" Scout.
I personally have always wondered if Atticus' name wasn't a reference to some sort of Greek philosopher or something of that nature. I went looking today after reflecting more on this thread, and found this essay on the matter (at least someone else was thinking along the same lines):It is quite noticeable that some characters' names in To Kill a Mockingbird are implicitly symbolic. Scout, for example, like the familiar military scouts who were dispatched from the main body to gather information, is a seeker, scouting out new areas of experience. Additionally, Atticus's name is a reference to the district Attica of ancient Greece in which Athens was located.
In some way Atticus's rational approach to life is similar to that of ancient philosophers, especially the Stoics: "The four cardinal virtues of the Stoic philosophy are wisdom, courage, justice and temperance. All people are manifestations of the one universal spirit and should, according to the Stoics, love and help another, regardless of rank and wealth" (Encarta Encyclopedia).
Atticus is the main character who serves these four virtues, justice, wisdom, courage and temperance in the story, just like the ancient philosophers of Athens did.
http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=...
Additionally, I initially thought (I have no idea where I got this idea) that children of ancient Greece called their parents by their names, as in, the use of the name sort of being a title of honor to that person?
Interesting! I never thought about it from that perspective.
I always thought that it was a symbolism to equality myself, but other ideas to it are certainly plausible, and make sense. I like what someone said, that it is to show that Atticus is unconventional. I also agree with what Duane said; Scout is the only narrative voice throughout the novel, and as Atticus is referred to so many times and such an important character, eventually you've read the word 'Father' or 'Pa(pa)' far too much.
I also think that maybe if he was called pa or papa, it would change him as a character. He wouldn't be Atticus anymore, the person readers associate so many things with, he would just be Scout and Jem's father, and I think that would make readers think of him differently. Even though he is praised as a father and is clearly an amazing dad, I think he would be pinned as just that and it would more difficult to think of him as someones brother, as a friend, as an outstanding lawyer etc.
Good question: I thought maybe Scout just thought of him in her mind as Atticus instead of as Dad. Thinking about it, I am sure the author did it on purpose, as one person in this discussion said, to show he did not have the same conventions as other people.
I'm a fairly old person, and though not from the south, I am from working class stock, old New England. We, too, would never have referred to our father by his first name, however I did have a friend who did exactly that. When I asked my mother about it, she said, oh those people, they're 'strange.'My grandmother, however, said she knew of a family who did that, too. (When she was a girl, which would have been in the early 1900's). She was told it stressed the equality of everyone in the family. (My grandmother was born in 1903.)
Anyhow, someone write Harper Lee and ask her. I'm sure she's been asked, and answered this very question somewhere.
By the way, I read it an at the same time listened to the audio book read by Sissy Spacek. It really made the book a powerful experience for me.
I'm not sure but in the novel, Scout and Atticus don''t have a conventional father/daughter relationship. As Scout mostly grew up without a mother, Atticus was there to raise her but at the same time they have more of a respectful manner to their relationship, hope this helped.
I remember that Scout calling her father by his first name jarred with me immensely when I first read this. It seemed very disrespectful. However, not being American myself, I just assumed "they do things differently there" and carried on reading.Now, I am wondering whether there is a difference in Scout's mind between her "papa" (who is personal to her) and "Atticus Finch" - the great lawyer who she is telling us about. She doesn't want to share her father with the world, but she does want everyone to admire him as much as she does.
I was browsing a book store and someone has written a book about all of this!! The Mockingbird Next Door, by Marja Mills. Evidently she knows the author and explains why Scout calls her father Atticus. I am going to try to find this book in my library. I buy too many books!!!
Carol wrote: "I was browsing a book store and someone has written a book about all of this!! The Mockingbird Next Door, by Marja Mills. Evidently she knows the author and explains why Scout calls her father At..."Hope you find it.
Here's a thought, each of the characters in this novel, and there are plenty of them, are an exaggeration. Atticus is unconventional, pursues justice at all cost, challenges "The Southern Way", and parents for productive independent thinking children.
As far as I know, plot and characters are based on the author's observations of her family and surroundings. So, maybe Harper Lee called her father by his first Name. That is what I thought, at least.
they call him atticus more in the beginning of the book, but later on I noticed that they start to say "our father" instead, thoughts?
I just watched one of Greg Peck's interviews when he was quite old. Mary Badham was there. Greg brought her up on stage and she said she still called Greg "Atticus". As she was leaving the stage, he said that he still called her "Scout". Just an interesting FYI. KP
I think it was just a way to show how Atticus is not the normal parent and just to emphasize how different Atticus raises Scout and Jem.
I think its a way to show the liberal relationship between Atticus and his children. A single father. Trying to do as much as possible for his kids at the same time giving them life lessons. When you teach children as adults, children do not heed to your advice very often. At such times, being in their minds on first name basis, will create a receptive child, ready to take on advice and suggestions and implement them as much as possible.
You say that it went against what should have been common for that place and time, and that was actually part of the reason for the Scout calling her father by his given name. Throughout the book we see Atticus defying societal norms. For example, his treatment of the black woman that took care of his children was very different from most other people in that he was kind and caring. The fact that Atticus does not raise his children the way the rest of the children in the town are raised is portrayed through Scout calling him Atticus. Additionally, it shows a maturity in Scout, and shows that she is more willing to follow in her father's footsteps and defy society's expectations. Finally, it shows that their relationship is open and not a stereotypical relationship with a southern father that is almost a dictator, and an overly submissive, quiet girl.
There are many good opinions here, and I would like to offer mine. The thing I focused on when reading the book (and watching the movie) was why Atticus Finch allowed his children to call him by him by his name.To me, the clue is the dead mother. I think that Atticus, being wise and compassionate and always insisting on doing what is right, allowed his children to call him Atticus because Scout and Jem were devastated by their mother's death (or more correctly, completely missing from their lives) and their father wanted to make them feel closer to him - almost like a brother or a friend, not JUST a brother or a friend, but those things in addition to being their father (addition, not substitution).
I think that's why they call him Atticus, and yet refer to him as "Sir". Scout as a grown-up, who is narrating, calls Atticus "my father" all the time ... simply because she is now grown up and matured. No need to be given the feeling of safety and inclusion the way she did as a child.
At least (to me) this gives a root reason for everything everyone else has put forth in this forum. They are all good points, but there has to be something deeper, a back story, that drives the characters and which is never referred to - the "why" of what they do.
Notice also that Cal is the one who punishes, not Atticus. "He is company!" and then swats Scout's butt (in the movie). Cal is the disciplinarian.
I'm sorry I went on so long! lol
I also wondered about Scout calling her dad Atticus . It did occur to me that it meant maybe to emphasis the equality between people even between fathers and sons or daughters. It means that everbody is the same in front of the law .. besides the father doesnt mind maybe because he emphasizes more in other values that his children needed. I thought for a while the Atticus is maybe an Egyptian name. Scout referred that their family has Egyptian root. But I am still not sure .
Joshua wrote: "Why does Scout refer to her father as Atticus? I am only 1/3 of the way through, so please don't spoil for me, but I was puzzled by this. I mean this is meant to display an old southern world before the civil rights movement. This was a culture that was super respectful. I think it is really strange then that the kids refer to their father by his first name"Here's my theory:
Scout and Jem started calling him Atticus because they did not know any better. Atticus did not correct them because Atticus did not care. Atticus lets Scout wear overalls and doesn't get mad at Calpernia after she takes Scout and Jem to a black church. Atticus doesn't care about superficial things, like what clothes Scout wears or what name his children use to refer to him.
Martinw wrote: "As far as I know, plot and characters are based on the author's observations of her family and surroundings. So, maybe Harper Lee called her father by his first Name. That is what I thought, at least."This was the thought that came to me, as well. And if Harper Lee did call her own father by his first name, that would rule out the notion put forth by many that such a thing would "never be done".
In the South during the 1930's it would have been unheard of for a proper young lady to address her father or any adult by their first name. I always felt that Atticus lost himself in his work after losing his beloved wife and left the ever-faithful, Calpernia to take care of the children. They were in awe of him but he marched to his own tune and did not always go with the conventions of the day. Displaying a "Time Honored Code" of showing respect to others was important to Atticus except for allowing his children to address him as an equal. He was a true visionary. Scout was a feisty little girl who always seemed to get herself into trouble and desperately needed a mother to guide her along.
That made me confused as well, and throughout the beginning of the story I though Atticus might not be the kids father.
Although it's been many years since I read "To Kill a Mockingbird," I seen to remember that Scout was a headstrong wild child, older than her age; therefore, I can see her calling her father Atticus, especially since he was so formal.
I always thought Atticus is their uncle.
Dylan wrote: "I always thought Atticus is their uncle."No he is their father. 8^)
I think that her referring to him as Atticus is intended to represent how their relationship so similarly resembles a friendship. There are few times in the book where he is actually the one to discipline her, he is more often contributing to her wild imagination, and it seems to me as if that is because they are so similar. In my opinion, her referring to him by his first name was far more appropriate based on their interactions seeming more friendly than fatherly.
Because Atticus believes in individuality and equality. Hence, a child is treated no different.
May I suggest a reason, as to why Scout always refers to her father as, Atticus.
In families, with both a father and a mother, a child will constantly, when spoken to, have the parent, refer to the other parent, as 'Mum' or 'Dad'.
E.g. "Go ask your Mum", "Have you seen your Dad", this is imprinted on the childs mind from a very young age. And the use of Mum or Dad, becomes natural.
A child, who grows up with only one parent, and never sees or have contact with the other parent, will never hear their (single) father or mother, refer to the other parent in such a familiar manner.
Scout refers to her father as 'Atticus', because that is what she hears, others calling him.
My mother never referred to my father as anything else, but 'your father', my grandparents as "My mother", or "My father". And I never knew them, and hence I have always referred to them as,
"My mothers father", "My mother mother", "My fathers family", etc.
My uncle, whom I knew, I always referred to as uncle Thomas.
It is a sign of disconnection, from a part of life, every child ought to have.
In families, with both a father and a mother, a child will constantly, when spoken to, have the parent, refer to the other parent, as 'Mum' or 'Dad'.
E.g. "Go ask your Mum", "Have you seen your Dad", this is imprinted on the childs mind from a very young age. And the use of Mum or Dad, becomes natural.
A child, who grows up with only one parent, and never sees or have contact with the other parent, will never hear their (single) father or mother, refer to the other parent in such a familiar manner.
Scout refers to her father as 'Atticus', because that is what she hears, others calling him.
My mother never referred to my father as anything else, but 'your father', my grandparents as "My mother", or "My father". And I never knew them, and hence I have always referred to them as,
"My mothers father", "My mother mother", "My fathers family", etc.
My uncle, whom I knew, I always referred to as uncle Thomas.
It is a sign of disconnection, from a part of life, every child ought to have.
I respect your suggestion Lilliane, but I don't agree. She and her dad had a close relationship and friendship, and he did believe in individuality, and didn't baby Scout, in-spite of her not having a mother.
Ramona wrote: "I respect your suggestion Lilliane, but I don't agree. She and her dad had a close relationship and friendship, and he did believe in individuality, and didn't baby Scout, in-spite of her not havin..."
With respect I beg to disagree with you, I do not believe it has anything to do with their relationship, as such, that is as good as any relationship can be (between friends), and there are mutual respect and devotion. It is a mechanism, which only happens to children, where one parent is completely out of the picture. And hence the children can end up calling the parent who is present, by their first name, when they hear everyone else, referring to the parent that way. I have seen that pattern again and again, both my sister and myself have never used the more intimate 'Mum', though we did say 'Mother', if we said anything at all.
And my sisters children, where the father was also out of the picture, often called her by her first name.
Btw parent should not be friends with their children, it is not their job, their job is to be parents, and you cannot be both parent and friend at the same time, but I agree the relationship between Atticus and Scout, was more that of a friendship, than father-daughter relationship, which is clearly shown by Scout being wise beyond her years.
It is always a danger when children are brought up by a single parent, that they turn their child into a friend, it can create problems for the child for the rest of their lives, and they may very well end up with Reactive Attachment Disorder. And both Scout and Jem, are suffering from neglect.
With respect I beg to disagree with you, I do not believe it has anything to do with their relationship, as such, that is as good as any relationship can be (between friends), and there are mutual respect and devotion. It is a mechanism, which only happens to children, where one parent is completely out of the picture. And hence the children can end up calling the parent who is present, by their first name, when they hear everyone else, referring to the parent that way. I have seen that pattern again and again, both my sister and myself have never used the more intimate 'Mum', though we did say 'Mother', if we said anything at all.
And my sisters children, where the father was also out of the picture, often called her by her first name.
Btw parent should not be friends with their children, it is not their job, their job is to be parents, and you cannot be both parent and friend at the same time, but I agree the relationship between Atticus and Scout, was more that of a friendship, than father-daughter relationship, which is clearly shown by Scout being wise beyond her years.
It is always a danger when children are brought up by a single parent, that they turn their child into a friend, it can create problems for the child for the rest of their lives, and they may very well end up with Reactive Attachment Disorder. And both Scout and Jem, are suffering from neglect.
I doubt that the author put that much thought into Scout calling her dad by his given name. :). Neither will I.
Also, in this era of single parents raising kids, I've never met any who call their parent by their first name just because they do not have the other parent in their life. This is 2018; get real.
Ramona wrote: "Also, in this era of single parents raising kids, I've never met any who call their parent by their first name just because they do not have the other parent in their life. This is 2018; get real."
You must be very old if you remember that era, an era where single parenthood was far more uncommon than it is today. I have not claimed that it happens to every single child, who have never known one of their parents, but there is a danger that it may happen, and it may be a reason, that Scout does it. And yes, I have experienced it many times.
Get real?!!!
Is that your way of handling a different point of view? Can you not accept, that others do not agree with you, and may have a different opinion. Your opinion, as little as mine, is not neccessarily fact.
Have you read some psychiatry, or even just psychology, and no I do not mean, articles in glossy magazines, but scientific papers?
You must be very old if you remember that era, an era where single parenthood was far more uncommon than it is today. I have not claimed that it happens to every single child, who have never known one of their parents, but there is a danger that it may happen, and it may be a reason, that Scout does it. And yes, I have experienced it many times.
Get real?!!!
Is that your way of handling a different point of view? Can you not accept, that others do not agree with you, and may have a different opinion. Your opinion, as little as mine, is not neccessarily fact.
Have you read some psychiatry, or even just psychology, and no I do not mean, articles in glossy magazines, but scientific papers?
Funny, I was going to ask you the same thing....you sound very old with your antiquated ideas. LOL. I was writing about the current era of 2018 and the single parent, and rarely do we hear children call their only parent by their first name. I don't mind differences of opinion, but not out-of-date ideas. LOL
"It parallels the trial in the novel. They call him Atticus because they are formal with their father. Calling him by his first name shows that the father and his children see each other as equals. Scout and Jem call their father by his first name because its more formal to them." They also saw their father as distant; hence, the formality of addressing him as such....by his first name.
Ramona wrote: ""It parallels the trial in the novel. They call him Atticus because they are formal with their father. Calling him by his first name shows that the father and his children see each other as equals...."
Children are not born with 'Mom' and 'Dad' imprinted on their mind, it is words they have to learn, just as any other word, and only by listening to someone else, reffering to the parents as 'Mum' and 'Dad', will they learn it. And if Jem and Scout hear others call their father 'Atticus', and never anything else, that is what they will learn, and in this case Atticus accepts it, children older than Jem and Scout, may call parents by their first names, as a rebellious way of distancing themselves from their parents, putting their parent at arm length. Among many psychiatrists it is a warning sign, when they hear children refer to their parents by their first names, as it may be a sign that there is something wrong in the family, which needs investigating.
I would consider it far more informal to call a parent 'Mum' or 'Dad', than by first name. Children needs to have parents. Both.
It was you who wrote you remember the era. Though I doubt it very much.
Yes, I am old, and I will not bow down to the level of Facebook debates, Thank you! Regardless, no matter what era we are in, there are things, which never change, such as interpersonal relationship and interactions, as they are mainly guided by our instincts. Man has not developed since the past 35.000 years, and there are no quantum leaps to be expected anytime soon.
Thank you for the debate, but lets agree to disagree.
Children are not born with 'Mom' and 'Dad' imprinted on their mind, it is words they have to learn, just as any other word, and only by listening to someone else, reffering to the parents as 'Mum' and 'Dad', will they learn it. And if Jem and Scout hear others call their father 'Atticus', and never anything else, that is what they will learn, and in this case Atticus accepts it, children older than Jem and Scout, may call parents by their first names, as a rebellious way of distancing themselves from their parents, putting their parent at arm length. Among many psychiatrists it is a warning sign, when they hear children refer to their parents by their first names, as it may be a sign that there is something wrong in the family, which needs investigating.
I would consider it far more informal to call a parent 'Mum' or 'Dad', than by first name. Children needs to have parents. Both.
It was you who wrote you remember the era. Though I doubt it very much.
Yes, I am old, and I will not bow down to the level of Facebook debates, Thank you! Regardless, no matter what era we are in, there are things, which never change, such as interpersonal relationship and interactions, as they are mainly guided by our instincts. Man has not developed since the past 35.000 years, and there are no quantum leaps to be expected anytime soon.
Thank you for the debate, but lets agree to disagree.
No, I couldn't possibly have written what you said and I'll quote....again....I said "in this era of single parenting......This is 2018." So, you misunderstood.
Ramona wrote: "No, I couldn't possibly have written what you said and I'll quote....again....I said 'this era of single parenting......This is 2018." So, you misunderstood."
I always assumed, that if I was being misunderstood, it was I who had not, expressed myself well and clearly enough. I am not out to win debates, so thanks again. Hope I wont have to block you.
Apart from that, 'in this era of single parenting....' may even be older than you yourself are.
I always assumed, that if I was being misunderstood, it was I who had not, expressed myself well and clearly enough. I am not out to win debates, so thanks again. Hope I wont have to block you.
Apart from that, 'in this era of single parenting....' may even be older than you yourself are.
I was very clear in writing as shown above. Have a nice day.
Liliane wrote: "Apart from that, 'in this era of single parenting....' may even be older than you yourself are...."I am plenty old enough to remember when divorce was uncommon. I was young in an era when divorce was socially looked down upon. Single parent households did not much exist back in the 1960's unless someone died. It is much different today. So I cover quite a bit of ground and I can say I have never seen a child call their parent by their first name to their face. I am not saying is does not exist, but I have never seen it and I know plenty of unconventional people. Maybe things are different in Denmark than here in the United States which can explain the different experiences.
As for the children calling Atticus by his first name, the actual answer is that Scout calls her father by his first name is because Jem does it.
The bigger question is why does Jem and that is a literary device to show the unconventional family during the Depression in the South. Atticus is a well respected man, but he is different from the norm and that matters when it comes to putting up a real defense over a man that rest of the town thinks is guilty due to the color of his skin. Harper Lee needs to show Atticus is different, but principled. She does this by the children calling him Atticus, but they show him great respect so as to show they are not that different. Atticus was principled, so he would not tolerate disrespect from his children or others.
Well written, Papaphilly. I've been stating the same as you that I have never heard a child call their parent by their first name.....just because they had a single parent in the home. And, in today's "era", and so many couples are divorced, I have never heard a child call their parent by their first name. I agree that Atticus' family was unconventional especially in the South, and as you wrote, this may be a way for the author to portray Atticus as different. I do also believe that he was a rather introverted person, perhaps withdrawn, which put distance between he and his children; hence, addressing him as Atticus which was very formal, instead of a more endearing name, and yet if approached by Scout, he patiently put her on his lap and answered his questions. He was a quiet man for sure. I enjoyed your synopsis.
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