Age of Empyre [July 25, 2020]

[Margret, Caladan Brood Face]

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[Narilka]

I'll be starting in the next day or two. Fingers crossed!

[Soo]

*fingers crossed*

I won't be starting for a few days. I'll be happy to think the book is ok. I don't want to end a series by an author I admire on a sad + grumpy note.

[Narilka]

I'm starting tonight. Finished up my current read faster than expected :)

I'm just hoping it's all tied together for an exciting ending.

[Soo]

I am hoping for an ending that "mostly" makes sense but this entire series has been a lot of Deus Ex Machina. So, that may be a pointless effort. lol

[Narilka]

I'm through Ch 13 which is 35% according to my Kindle. Again the story picks up immediately with the cliffhanger of the last book, which is great. I'm finding this one engaging so far, as in I want to keep reading even when I should be doing other things, like working ;)

The feeling of a Greek myth retelling is present here so depending on how well you liked that aspect of the last book will determine how you like it in this one. There are several info dumps told as fables of the world that work OK for me in the context.

Things are actually happening. And now for the spoilers. (view spoiler)[So mean that Roan is found by Iver! I'm glad she was rescued quickly.

I did not expect Brin to have to leave everyone else behind. I guess the others have too much emotional baggage that they can't let go of yet, if ever. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan left them all in the abyss, unable to be rescued with Brin on her return trip. Assuming Brin returns to her body through the underworld. Maybe there will be a different journey for her. Since she is already seen writing the Book of Brin, she has to return to her body at some point.

I totally guessed Mina was back when Brin entered the grove and heard growling. Nice she got a cameo. At least I think it's only a cameo. We will see.

On the Greek tragedy side, Trilos sacrificing his memories to create his "dragon" was an interesting choice. And sad. He doesnt remember Muriel so has no idea to go look for her, instead wanting to return to death. I wonder if someone will remind him so there could be a happy ending for someone.

Not sure what I think about Suri's story line at the moment. Kill the fain take two. (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

I finished and enjoyed it. The first book is still my favorite though. It's nice the plot got moving in this one. I'll post more thoughts later after I let it sit a bit more.

[Soo]

Post your thoughts! Started tonight. Probably be done tomorrow. =)

Guaranteed I will have to re-listen to a few parts. Hopefully for "yay" reasons.

[Narilka]

Even though things end up well, this story is mostly a tragedy. It ties up just enough yet there is plenty left open. Given this is a history of sorts, it seems right since history doesn't end. And he has another series planned between this one and the other Riyria books which I'm sure will fill in more gaps. I might move the first Riyria series up in my reading priority list for next year.

This probably should not have been a 6 book series. I think books 4 and 5 could have been combined either together or with books 3 and 6 to help smooth out the reading experience and feel less like filler.

(view spoiler)[So sad that Brin's book ends up "lost" because Trilos takes it. Since I haven't read Riyria, I have no idea if it's discovered in the years between. One of my favorite things about this series was all the Book of Brin quotes that start each chapter. That the final chapter ended up someone else's quote was.... yeah made me sad.

I like that Malcolm has doubts yet continues to try his best anyway. It's funny how now it's like Trilos is the bad guy. I hope Trilos reads the book of Brin so he can learn what he lost about Muriel. Another tragedy that. Trilos is so caught up in anger and hate for Malcolm that he can't believe Brin at all, even about something that would make him ultimately happy.

Obviously Mawyn being left alive will be trouble later on. He didn't have the best upbringing or role models. He's perfect for someone like Trilos to use.

Brin's journey was enjoyable. I like a good Greek-style story and he did well here though it started to get repetitive.

Fun nods to the Wizard of Oz.

It's nice that Suri got a happy ending. Hopefully she does go on to teach more human the Art. (hide spoiler)]

There's probably more. Hope this one works better for you than the last two.

[Soo]

I'm about 40%. Relistened to parts. I'm trying really hard to not be down. hahahhahah

I am curious to see how the new series will run and a book on Nolyn could be a lot of fun...

I will probably wait until the whole trilogy is out and test it out then.

[Narilka]

I agree on waiting for the whole trilogy. There will be plenty to keep us busy in the mean time :D

[Soo]

Okay, finally finished. This book felt like it was too long by about 3-4 hours.

I was going to give this 2 stars. It's more like 2.5. So I'm going to leave it at 3.

The format chosen for the series didn't work for me. The individual pieces had a lot of potential and I enjoyed snippets of each but I do not love the finished books of the series. I rarely go back and change a rating but I kinda want to go to book #1 and give it 3 stars too. For me, that one was more like 3.5 and I raised it up on the hope that the rest of the series will fulfill the potential hinted at in the Age of Myth.

I came up with four different ways this series could have been woven together and not come across as a jumbled mass of information. That was only making me more frustrated with listening to the story being told and I had to stop doing that. lol It's not like it will ever happen. =P

Narilka, agreed on points about Brin & Suri.

This isn't the series I hoped to have read. This is not the solid ending I was hoping to get. It is what it is.

[Choko]

So, I am up to Ch. 6... (view spoiler)[ I thought it was straight up cruel for Roan to fall in the clutches of her abuser! OMG! Every word he said to her sounded as lascivious and dirty and threatening as the most grossest thing I could imagine. I have no idea why it had such effect on me, since he didn't even use that scary of words, but I felt like I had to take a shower... Thank goodness for Gilbert and his good heart! I worry about Tessa and Tesh though, because they are not doing so good and have souls very tarnished by guilt, skepticism and sparse hope... Hope Brin, with her supernatural light of spirit, could help all of them out... (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Underworld/Hades: There are aspects of this portion of the series that's great and a couple of great moments are in there. I like how consistent Gifford is true to himself and Roan.

[Choko]

Gifford! I was very tired when I updated in the middle of the night... And yes, I love Roan and Gifford's relationship! It is so pure in spirit, not just other ways...
I just started Ch. 6. I have no idea who will survive this, but their depression is palpable... Dealing with some of that because of my PTSD, I love how he described it as this deforming, exhausting, strength and will power stripping condition of the soul. I have felt exactly that way... A place a try never to return to. It is just really true in the description. And I have been Brin for my brother when he goes through his lows, and you think, just smile, go out, enjoy yourself, life is beautiful, and he can't even make himself pretend he could be positive for a second, or hopefully... I remembered my mom, who had manic depression, and she was dying of cancer. While during the worst part of chemo, she said she still felt better and more hopefully than when she was depressed, because at those times she couldn't even conceive of the idea of hope... It broke my heart. That really puts things in perspective. So when I am reading about Brin and the rest going through the Underworld/Hades, it is like an illustration of that. And it really resonates with me...

[Soo]

There's definitely a lot to emote with about loss, guilt and a host of other ideas during the Underworld scenes.

Isn't language amazing? I love how our emotions can have one word to be the front line description and yet it could take pages to explain what that feeling means and connected to memory, people, places, etc.

Choko, I'm glad the story resonates with you and yet sad that it does because it may bring up darker feelings for you. Be sure to do stuff that makes you laugh.

Hugs, ice cream, Splurt, sarcastic but loving romances, etc. =)
Chocolate? =D

[Choko]

I think I will indulge in Splurt and chocolate after this one. Thank you for understanding, Soo❤️

[Choko]

Ch. 7 ... Goblins??? WTH? Where the hell did they come from?

[Tammie]

I'll be a little late getting to this, but hopefully will start it in a few days. I can't wait!

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Soo wrote: "Okay, finally finished. This book felt like it was too long by about 3-4 hours.

I was going to give this 2 stars. It's more like 2.5. So I'm going to leave it at 3.

The format chosen for the ser..."

He should have wrapped it up at the end of the last book with an epic ending. Instead that ending wasn't as good as it could have been and this read like an afterward in many ways.

[Soo]

The underworld events should have been in one book.

Half the time I was listening to this one, I kept trying to figure out how to rearrange the POVs and events into a pattern that made more sense. lol

That was a frustrating exercise of mental gymnastics.

While there are great little moments or messages in the book, there was a lot of lecturing in this one. Between personal lectures and world event lectures, I didn't care for being "talked at" aspect.

Brin: (view spoiler)[On one hand, it makes sense that Brin was a key part of the series. Yet, you can say that about ALL of the characters. It would not be what it is without any of them.

I should be understanding and thrilled with the way Sullivan showcases how "truth" and "good" is defined by the eye of the beholder. Normally, I love that stuff. Showing how one action can be viewed as good or bad depending on which side you are on. That's the kind of detail that I tend to enjoy.

That message was hammered on a lot in this series. To the point that the impact was made less for me and it became a tool for writing vs great aspects of a series.

There are only a handful of things I truly enjoyed in the series. The quotes from Brin's Book were one of them. To have them taken away and hidden in this book ticked me off! Ha (hide spoiler)]

Nyphron & Dragon: *totally disgruntled*

Too much over-explaining but not necessarily adding depth or layers. Just a bunch of showing/stating the obvious to the reader.

[Elizabeth]

I'm about 75% through. I'm liking this one more than the last one, but really most of the Underworld parts just don't do it for me.

[Narilka]

Soo wrote: "Nyphron & Dragon: *totally disgruntled* "

Yeah lol I was hoping for more there too. Oh well.

And yes, there's a lot of "telling" in this last book.

[Narilka]

Choko wrote: "Gifford! I was very tired when I updated in the middle of the night... And yes, I love Roan and Gifford's relationship! It is so pure in spirit, not just other ways...
I just started Ch. 6. I have..."

This series definitely tackles some serious themes. I'm glad he mixed hope in too.

[Choko]

I am close to finishing it and I personally love it, but I totally see the heavy handedness on certain personal growth and development subjects. I am actually thinking of getting my brother to read it because of those parts, not despite of them. We often, maybe a little too often, have long conversations on those themes, because he is just now getting to look inward for his problems, not just looking for outside things or people to blame. So yes, it is hammered hard, but for some people those subjects are too unfamiliar to be understood if approached with subtlety. But I get what you are saying Soo, and I agree.
About 85% in and I do have to say I love (view spoiler)[ Mina is back!!! I enjoyed the whole trip through the Underworld, but Mina just made me happy.
I didn't expect what happened with the the princeling's girlfriend! That kind of sucked for the two of them. She could have made him a better person...
I hated the scene with Nephron and Persephone, when he refused to listen to her and got rough with her... That just made me even more disappointed in his character than I already am. I know their marriage is not a love match, but for her sake, I was hoping he would at least try to be a good husband. Then when he told the dragon he didn't care about her, it really made me sad... Speaking of the dragon, I think we all would have been much more upset about N killing him, if we hadn't seen R being happy in the paradise of the Underworld. That definitely softened the blow, although it felt like N acted on his hurt feelings instead of thinking long term protection for his people... Asshole!

I love the new and confident Suri and her parts are my favorite at this point. I love P, but she is just making me sad with her situation right now... (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Heh, I don't think we're suppose to be happy. Bittersweet is a good word to describe the book.

On the other hand, I am curious to see how Nolyn turns out. Anyone wanna take bets?

[Choko]

I really, really hope he takes after his mother!!! It would suck if his dad is his role model... But I have my doubts... Usually the kids of very strong and powerful parents turn out kind of disappointing, mostly because they are compared to greatness...

[Elizabeth]

Finished it today, I loved the last few chapters and it's making me want to read Revelations again.

[Choko]

I have about 15% left, but I am also loving it so far... I am glad you enjoyed it, Elizabeth!

[Choko]

I just finished... I loved it! I thought it was a perfect end to the series but with a lot of options for continuing with sequels... After all, it is just a slice of the history of the Empire, things don't just come to a standstill once the book ends...

I have to say, now that I know what happens, I am looking forward to the reread of the series, when I can relax and read it for the details.

I see the pacing and at times construction issues, but they didn't bother me. However, when I listened to them talking after the book, he said that he struggled with the last three books and I think the biggest issue he had was that he didn't work on this series all books at the same time like he usually does, so he was totally out of his routine. I also have a feeling that they are very sensitive people and everything that has been happening in the world these days has been taking attention away from the work. I was left with the impression that they kind of struggled through this time around... I understand all that, but I still really liked the finished product. (view spoiler)[ I had no issues with how Brin's story ended or any of the others really. The only thing I wanted more of was more Suri and Persephone! I felt like we could have used more of them in the epilogue. But the rest I totally loved... (hide spoiler)]

Looking forward to reading more with you guys (*_*)(*_*)(*_*)

[Soo]

Next year, let's do a re-read and get back with Royce & Hadrian. I'd like to see how the two series mesh or don't.

As for Sullivan:
Yeah, this series of six books are not the best and MJS knows it. I wish he had more time to iron the books out because they're still rough around the edges.

It's hard to write books that are suppose to be canon for the world and go back to make corrections. Everything he wrote will influence future work.

Still, maybe he'll take more time with the next series. I haven't given up on him! =)

[Narilka]

I'd be in for at least Revelations. That's the first series right? Pretty sure I have the first one on my kindle.

[Soo]

Riyria Revelations are six books. Do you have the Crown Conspiracy #1 or the bundled Theft of Swords #1-2? I read the bundled books way back when.

Whew! It's been a while since I read the books. I read Theft of Swords back in 2013. I enjoyed RR much more than the Age of Legends. It would be neat to see how perspective has changed from the "AL" days and the "present" in RR.

[Narilka]

I have Theft of Swords.

[Choko]

Awesome! I am totally in! I was thinking that we should do that for sure after reading this series. You guys are awesome!

[Frank]

Well I completed this also, and enjoyed the first two books quite a bit more than the last two, even though much was tied up.
This series was certainly different that the Riyria books, almost as if written by another, but in the end Sullivan was creating a series that was the back history of Riyria, so understandable when it read that way at times.
Now that Michael Sullivan has completed this I look forward to another Riyria story, whose characters hold a special place for me.

[Choko]

Frank, I am glad you enjoyed it, despite it being so different from his previous books. I hope you join us for the eventual reread of the Revaluations◉‿◉

[Tammie]

Choko wrote: "So, I am up to Ch. 6... [spoilers removed]"

I had the same reaction to the Roan thing.

[Tammie]

I'm in chapter 10 now. I'm not a huge fan of the underworld setting, although I ended up liking the last book despite that. This is definitely rather dark and depressing so far, which I'm not in the mood for right now, so it might take me a while to get through this one.

[Choko]

Yeah, it is definitely a mood read... Take your time, you know we are here ʘ‿ʘ

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I read this yesterday... will comment more when I get home... but was definitely more engaged by the connections and implications, when connected to the other Riyria books...

To people who read/listened to the Afterword, what was the Makareta confirmation... I couldn’t remember if that was A Winter’s Daughter thing or a Revelations thing... or (view spoiler)[ the Gjlarebron from the Revelations series (hide spoiler)]... definitely need a re-read...

[Elizabeth]

Timelord Iain wrote: "I read this yesterday... will comment more when I get home... but was definitely more engaged by the connections and implications, when connected to the other Riyria books...

To people who read/li..."


I was wondering the same.

[Elena]

@Timelord Iain I’m not 100% sure but maybe she is (view spoiler)[the lady of Dulgath. I read the book a long time ago but wasn’t her body “possessed” after her death or something like that? (hide spoiler)]

[Tammie]

I've gotten more into this now. Up to chapter 14. (view spoiler)[I was so happy about Minna! I also enjoyed the conversation with Raithe in the underworld. I'm so worried about everyone that Brin left behind, but also excited that she finally made it out. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Elena wrote: "@Timelord Iain I’m not 100% sure but maybe she is [spoilers removed]"

That's what I was wondering... elements were left open, for her to (view spoiler)[get back out of the Afterlife, but I wasn't sure if she was the possessor from Dulgath or Winter's Daughter or whatever, or if she sacrificed something like Turin and made a Gjlarebron or something... it seemed like all the Gjlarebron were dead at the end of the series, leaving none to be in the tower in the 2nd or 3rd Riyria book, the one at the tower on the Rhune & Frey border that led to the unknown girl becoming a queen (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Narilka wrote: "Even though things end up well, this story is mostly a tragedy. It ties up just enough yet there is plenty left open. Given this is a history of sorts, it seems right since history doesn't end. And..."

You really need to read Riyria... things with Malcolm and Maywndule are so much richer afterwards...

Re: Brin: All I know, is that this is the current title of the 2nd Rise & Fall book is Farilane (view spoiler)[and if you forgot already, that's the scholar that's quoted at the end of the book, that's trying to piece together the truth of the Book of Brin (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Elena wrote: "@Timelord Iain I’m not 100% sure but maybe she is [spoilers removed]"

Found a reddit speculation thread and it looks like this is right... makes sense... the details of that book are just fuzzy now...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Soo wrote: "Next year, let's do a re-read and get back with Royce & Hadrian. I'd like to see how the two series mesh or don't.

As for Sullivan:
Yeah, this series of six books are not the best and MJS knows i..."

From the Afterword, this series sounds exploratory... the story evolved in the 2nd and 3rd books, and the 4th basically became a 3 parter...

Easy to see, then, why the first is best for most people... I, personally, liked the first 3 books to varying degrees, and was very disappointed by the cliffhangers in books 4-5, reading as they released...

In the end, I'm glad the books exist, and that so much has been added about the gods...

I think, after this, there are 4 books left to write, plus however many Royce & Hadrian books are added... there's the Rise & Fall trilogy, and a book about (view spoiler)[the final resolution of the battle between Malcolm and Turin, that spans millenia (hide spoiler)]... that last one could end up being more than one book... MJS has only hinted at the possibility of writing it in some reddit and goodreads comments, I think...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Tammie wrote: "Choko wrote: "So, I am up to Ch. 6... [spoilers removed]"

I had the same reaction to the Roan thing."

The start of the book was a bit rough for me, as someone who read the books as they released, and haven't done a re-read... at first I was confused who/what was going on... then I was a bit horrified, and glad the scene didn't last too long...

As the book progressed, I felt like it was jam-packed with "Messages"... not quite as ham-fisted as Hollow World, the non-Riyria MJS book I BR'd with some people a few years ago and didn't love...

[Soo]

I own a signed copy, etc etc of Hollow World and the audiobook. I haven't read it because the opening never grew on me. Figured I wasn't in the right mood when I tried. I'll get around to it at some point.

From the author notes & stuff, I think MJS needed more time to make this series the type of quality I expect from him and he didn't have it because he is very involved in various aspects of writing/networking/etc.