The Shadow of What Was Lost [Apr 10, 2020]

[Mayim]

We all have are quirks ;) definitely no need to apologize

[Veronica]

Frankly, I didn't see romantic sparks between anyone in this story. :-(

[Choko]

I wish we had Wirr and Aelric!!!

[Mayim]

This romance is better than Sullivan's romance anyway so I take it on face value. This didn't strike me as a love story, emotional entanglement is merely an ornament. Asha and Davian are my favourite couple but this is perhaps because we get both of their POVs so it is easier to relate. The other to boys are just so, excuse me, juvenile ;) and then I do not, for even one second, believe that Caedan [do not read unless finished] (view spoiler)[will be seriously swayed by some random princess if he lived for hundred years and thus was surely loved by scores of beautiful women (hide spoiler)]

I liked that this was not leaning too heavily on the emotional entanglement to get the plot going to be honest.

[Rob]

Ok, I'm a few days late to the party, but already up to chapter four and was definitely hooked after the first chapter. Just something about the tone of it. I started up the audiobook a little today and the familiar voice of Michael Kramer roped me in all the more.

[Mayim]

The opening is very good. Everything that can go wrong, goes even worse. The best of setups. :D I hope you'll enjoy the rest too, Rob.

[Veronica]

Asha and Davian still only feel like friends to me, almost sibling-like. But I'll admit that fantasy stories almost never produce romances that make me feel invested. Looking at my 'Read' shelf, I have to go back to spring 2019 to find a couple of fantasy books that had some romantic pairings I was interested in, not super invested mind you. It's funny because I don't care to read strictly romance books but I do enjoy a story when there is a romance playing out on the sidelines. I'm just super picky about how it's executed and fantasy authors just don't seem to be able to do it for me in that department. But I'm always hoping that the next fantasy book I pick up will be the one!

[Mayim]

Veronica wrote: "ooking at my 'Read' shelf, I have to go back to spring 2019 to find a couple of fantasy books that had some romantic pairings I was interested in."

Do share those! I like good romantasy every now and then.

[Tammie]

I'm going back and reading spoilers now.

Choko wrote: "End of Ch. 39... [spoilers removed]"

That is a good question Choko. I was thinking it was (view spoiler)[Davian's dad at first, but you are right. (hide spoiler)]
And I agree on the checks and balances.


Veronica wrote: "I'm at the end of chapter 39 now too... [spoilers removed]"

I was curious about that too. Could she be the same person, or related? (view spoiler)[Plus there is the big mystery as to why Malshesh's wife was killed that we don't have the answer to. (hide spoiler)] Things like this make me want to read the other two books, even though I'm probably only going to give this one 3 stars.


Mayim wrote: "I have been thinking about it a bit (in between the chapter 28 onward (view spoiler)) but I guess my biggest (still not so huge) issue is that things are too easy for the protaginists, not that the protagonists are plot-insulated against sudden demise..."

I agree that things have come too easily for the protagonists. They've practically been spoon fed everything.

[Choko]

I enjoyed it for sure and I am all in for the next two books. I just wish the author had chosen to go with less ways to give get out of jail free cards. But I enjoyed the writing and expect much more from the author.

V, this is just another case to support my theory - the better the Fantasy writing is, the worse the romance. My theory has been proven so many times by now, that the few exceptions serve to only make it a rule ʘ‿ʘ

[Elinor]

End of chapter 27 ?!?

[Elinor]

Re : romance : also sometimes it feels like there is absolutly no need for the romance in the first place and it doesn't add anything and perhaps the author should have make the bold move of, you know, not making one. Sur, love is great, but then again, there are a lot of different type of loves such as friendship and family love and so on and I would really love it if, from time to time, the focus was more on those ones than on a forced romance.

[Elinor]

Chapter 29 : (view spoiler)[So Caelen is this Tal'kamar guy from the prologue. This is intriguing. Also for the time being I can't figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys and what do all those people want.
And, yeah, the time travel thing, I was not expecting that going into this book ! (hide spoiler)]

[Elinor]

Tammie wrote: "Veronica wrote: "Through chapter 20..."

I was glad of that too!"

I don't remember if I commented on that but me as well ! No stupid drama that was nice

[Veronica]

Elinor Master of Gifs wrote: "Re : romance : also sometimes it feels like there is absolutly no need for the romance in the first place and it doesn't add anything and perhaps the author should have make the bold move of, you k..."

100% agree! I just said on some other thread...somewhere...that if an author isn't willing or able to devote the page time to developing a romance in an organic way, then I'd rather they just leave it out altogether.

[Tammie]

Veronica wrote: "I'm finished now too.

Overall I liked the story but it did end up feeling very YA to me. Also the world-building just felt overly muddied. I've read Malazan so I'm not averse to dealing with thou..."

I finished and overall it was pretty good. I gave it 3 stars. I wish I had liked it as much as most everyone else on my friends list did. I agree with you, Veronica about everything you said here, and wonder the same things that you put in your spoiler.

[Barry]

Ch 42

Caeden (view spoiler)[
I assume Alaris is Davian, because they're the only two people able to trave "out of time"? But, why did Alaris then warn against the Gifted, since he basically grew up with the Gifted. Or, perhaps, there are some factions within the Gifted community that have gone over to support Arkaen Davaed(spelling?). (hide spoiler)]

I agree that our main characters haven't really faced a lot of challenges yet. Everything has been smoothed over by the mentors. So, I'm hoping it'll start to change soon.

[Choko]

Barry, on Alaris, I have a theory that (view spoiler)[ he is playing for the bad guys, despite having been a friend of Caeden's... I think all of them switch sides from time to time, and depending on how many of them Time Travel, you never know when even the same person might be sabotaging their other time self, in attempt to change outcomes... (hide spoiler)] This is only a theory of mine...

[Choko]

Elinor, I totally agree! I really hate when we as readers are settled with unreliable narration... :-[

[Mayim]

Choko wrote: "Barry, on Alaris, I have a theory that [spoilers removed] This is only a theory of mine..."

Nice one. I assumed that Alaris is just one of the (view spoiler)[Venerati (speling?) as they seem to be the ultimate bad guys. (hide spoiler)]

[Barry]

Done.

Overall, pretty good. There are some flaws. For example, lots of time, where the author kinda “cheated” by explicitly cutting the scenes to hide clues to certain mysteries. So that when they were revealed, I thought most of them were rather unexpected.

But, the thing that concerned me the most ((view spoiler)[the time travel (hide spoiler)]), fortunately, worked pretty well. (view spoiler)[I think that and the memories “loss” suffered by Caeden/Tal’Kamar/Arkaen Davaed should be the main underlying issue driving the actions of Caeden and Davian going forward. (hide spoiler)]

Caeden (view spoiler)[
Nice theory Choko. Now that it’s been revealed that Caeden = talkamar = Arkaen Davaed. And that I assume he’s also Malshesh. I think both Caeden and Davian have or will have split their memories into multiple persons, each trying to influence themselves at multiple points in time?

Also I believe Caeden is the same guy who challenged the original King of the Shining Lands to the three impossible challenges. I thought that was a really good origin myth.

But, so I guess there’s a personality split already in the Prologue that resulted in Tal’Kamar splitting with the wholesome Davaed? That the original Davaed still has monstrous plans to weaken the boundary and invade.

Could Davian be the same as Davaed / Caeden ? (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Barry, I have those same questions! And almost exactly the same thoughts... I guess the author is achieving his goal of getting us as paranoid as possible:-)

[Elizabeth]

I just finished today and loved looking at all your theories. I haven't been on a whole lot lately because my computer stopped working. It wouldn't turn on, just a flashing black screen, but I ordered a new one that arrived today (Yay!) so hopefully I should be on a little more. I'm thinking I'm going to give it 4.5 stars rounded up. I was slow reading it, but I really enjoyed it.

[Choko]

Elizabeth, welcome back! Awesome, I am so glad you enjoyed it!!!

[Saar The Book owl]

I'm up to chapter 20:
(view spoiler)[I don't know if the Shaedrahin did the attack on the school. Maybe it was all a political conspiracy, but I think Asha is making a better decision to be the Scirbe to the Augurs then to work for the Shaedrahin. I wonder what made Elocien change his mind about the Gifted and the Augurs to trust them. It can't only be because of Torin/Wirr. Also Davian took the truth about Wirr lightly. I thought he was going to make a fuss about it. (hide spoiler)]

[Olivia]

I'm still only 30% into my re-read, but hoping to finish this week.

[Elizabeth]

Are any of you interested in continuing?

[Choko]

I am for sure!

[Elizabeth]

Are you okay waiting until June? I already have 8 BR for next month if I keep them all.

[Tammie]

There are already buddy reads set up for the other two books. May 10th and June 10th. I was originally going to read all three books, but I didn't really like this one enough to read over 1500 more pages, so I'm probably not going to continue.

[Barry]

There’s one set up for next month? Is that still ok with everybody?

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Tammie wrote: "There are already buddy reads set up for the other two books. May 10th and June 10th. I was originally going to read all three books, but I didn't really like this one enough to read over 1500 more..."

I liked the first 2 books, but the final book was a complete disappointment... for me, the only redeeming part was the epilogue...

[Mayim]

Fine for me, I’m keen to continue.

[Elizabeth]

I doubt I'll have time next month. I already have 8 planned reads. , 2 that start the 1st, one on the 10th, two on the 15th, one on the 19th, 25th and 26th. I way overbooked myself. If you guys are okay waiting until June that would work better for me, but if you want to keep reading sooner I can read book 2 another time.

[Rob]

I will be continuing. About 30% in now

[Choko]

Whenever you guys decide, I will be there:,-)

[Brian]

I’m in to continue

[Elinor]

Chapter 38 : (view spoiler)[disappointed in Davian forcing Mashash's mind shield... I mean I understand. It can be tempting and that's why usually the training is much longer, but yeah, still a bit disappoined in Davian.
As for Mashash's dead wife backstory, it's a bit generic. It feels like yet another girlfriend in the fridge. (hide spoiler)]

[Olivia]

I’m only a third through but I’m keen to continue next month :)

[Elinor]

Chapter 39 : (view spoiler)["He smiled to himself. Wirr no doubt assumed he was dead." whaaat how is that funny boy ? He is your friend and he is s a d because he thinks you're dead, that's not funny !! (hide spoiler)]

[Elinor]

And I'm done ! I really liked it but it's no new favorite of mine. I've read all your theories and I think there are a lot of interesting things you picked up ! (view spoiler)[The reveal that Caeden was in fact not only Tal'kamar but also Aarkein Devaed aka the Bad Guy (or is he ? since he is only woring for The Really Bad Guy) was surprising, what with the prologue confronting the two of them if I am not mistaken... So Caeden is Tal'kamar who is Aarkein Devaed who is Alarais Shar. That is a lot of names for only one man ! Regarding the romance with the princess, I really hope it won't go any further now that he is going to have at least some of his memories back... It really would feel strange.
And, well, I think his redemption arc is going well so far. He don't know a lot about him before, but we do know how he became Devaed, and that he set a very complicated plan in motion to help and become someone better.
Regarding the time-travel, I don't feel like anyone besides Davian can do it ? Has there been someone else doing it ? He had to be in the strange city. Plus when Older Him visited Asha. (hide spoiler)]
There are still a lot of things left, and I'm worried about (view spoiler)[Davian, especially with the knowledge we have from his Older Self (hide spoiler)].
You all already know how I feel about the romances in it so I won't repeat myself xD plus I have a feeling there were things that indeed seemed a little too easy, even though I can pinpoint something in particular. Still really liked it and will be reading the sequel, but even though I would love to continue reading this series with you guys, I don't know if I can get to it in 10 days.

[Ryan]

While I generally liked it, this book left me with a ton of unanswered questions.

(view spoiler)[In Chapter 5, what happened? Even after reading a plot summary, I don't quite get it. Who attacked and why did they leave Asha alive? And who were the guys who were there afterwards?

In Chapter 7, who was the girl Breshada (the Hunter)? It's implied she made a promise to Tal'Kamar to protect Davian and Wirr...did Tal'Kamar anticipate they would be his companions? At this point in the book, Caeden hadn't shown up yet. And who were the attackers of Davian and Wirr? Just opportunists?

In Chapter 7, Davian erased Anaar's memory. How did this happen?

In Chapter 16, Elocien and his "servant" (presumably Erran) appear out of thin air. Is this just from the invisibility Vessel?

Also in 16: "Take her, Northwarden, and you lose your best chance at finding him." Who is this "him" and why would this be the case?

Starting in Chapter 24, why did the sha'teth refrain from killing Davian?

Why does Alaris set Caeden up to meet with Havran Das - i.e. why does he want to hurt Caeden? And why did Alaris tell Caeden not to trust any Gifted?

What do we know, if anything, about future Davian visiting Asha? What is the purpose and the meaning of his message that Asha relays to the Shadraehin that "Tal'kamar is going to take Licanius to the Wells?"

In Chapter 50, Asha says, "Follow me. I don't have a lot left in my Reserve..." I thought, as a Shadow, she doesn't have a Reserve. I'm still a little confused about how Shadows activating the Vessels work.

In Chapter 52: "Leaving the Administrator alive had been too great a risk. If Ionis had had even a few more seconds, managed to finish his sentence, then Davian's only option would have been to stop Wirr in the same manner." What does this mean?

What do we know about Licanius and its significance, if anything? It seems like a bit of a poorly explained MacGuffin at the moment.
(hide spoiler)]

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

It only gets more complex in the second novel lol. Reading through your questions I can answer a lot of them because I’ve finished the trilogy. You’re not missing anything, I believe they haven’t been explained yet.

[Ryan]

Darn, I was afraid of that. I tend to prefer books that are a little more self-contained. I plan to read the sequels eventually.