The Shadow of What Was Lost [Apr 10, 2020]

[Saar The Book owl]

Choko wrote: "I just started. Reading it right after a book from the WoT, it really reminds me about it... I hope I don't start mixing them in my head◉‿◉"

It's possible you mix things. I have that :(

[Barry]

Ch 14

Wirr (view spoiler)[ probably is the son of someone even higher than the North Warden? Perhaps the King? Illegitimately, perhaps. (hide spoiler)]

The Watcher (view spoiler)[I’m guessing is the guy from the prologue? And he’s being pursued by his “brothers”, some kind of clones? Four hunt, one he called an escherii, a fake (god?). (hide spoiler)]

Asha (view spoiler)[seems like she’s too eager to do anything another character tells her to do, no? Is this an effect of something that Elder Tenvar did to her? Now, shes willing to be a spy after what basically amounted to a 15-minute talk with a guy she didn’t even know before.

And how did she survive? She must’ve some kind of power or immunity against the escherii or Tenvar. (hide spoiler)]

I haven’t read WoT, but this author reminds me of Sanderson in how methodical he’s laying out the clues to the mysteries. Also the prologue reminds me of Stomrlight Archive’s prologue too.

[Choko]

Saar, I know! It doesn't help that the names of places are so familiar... Every time they say Andarra, I think Andora, Morgaze and Elaine's kingdom. Every time they say Ilin Illan I think Illian, Shayol Ghul - Talan Gol...

But I am getting used to it (•‿•)

So, there are some very gruesome scenes ... I know they are very gruesome, but I am not sure why they are not affecting me very much emotionally... Have I grown heartless, or is something missing in the heart of the story so far? The only character I have true emotional connection with is Asha, and I have a deeper empathy for Caeden and Malshash... Ooo, and I like a lot the old gifted one who is traveling with the group... But I am still watching, not living in the story yet...

[Choko]

Barry, Sanderson himself said that he was influenced by Robert Jordan, so it is all a chain of inspiration (✷‿✷)... Since Jordan was heavily influenced by Tolkien (•‿•)

[Veronica]

Choko wrote: "But I am still watching, not living in the story yet..."

I'm feeling that way too, Choko. I feel that way about the WoT books so far too. Actually, I'm trying to remember the last fantasy book where I really felt super invested in the world and characters. Maybe I'm getting too jaded, lol. I'm liking this story but it does have a definite YA feel to it, IMO.

Barry wrote: "Ch 14

Wirr [spoilers removed]

The Watcher [spoilers removed]

Asha"

I agree with you about Asha. So far she has been swayed pretty easily by whomever is talking to her.

[Choko]

End of Ch. 39... (view spoiler)[ So, you can only shape-shif if the person you are shifting into is dead... Or has died at one point or another on the time lines? But in that case, everyone is dead at some time or another. There has to be another catch... Why did Malshash turn into those people from the wedding that he killed? Does it have to be someone you specifically killed? And then who was the person Davain turned into? It was someone related to Wirr, but the description didn't match Wirr's father. His uncle, the King, who is going a tad insane? Does Davian kill him eventually? That doesn't bode well for anyone... I am getting ahead of myself in speculating... We will see (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

V, I get it. Either we are getting jaded, or we just need a break for a bit from Epic Fantasy. I am usually helped by light action sci-fi and some rom-coms(•‿•)... The thing is though, that if my mind has the time to speculate for the future of the book and the little obvious clues, then I am not sucked in, the way I get when I just get lost and don't notice the details but am only about finding out what happens right now! I got like that with the Mistborn 4, 5 and 6... I think I engulfed them in two days. I am sure I can go back and get all the little details, but at the time, I just wanted to know where we are going... The first Mistborn trilogy didn't do that... I guess it just depends on the mood...

[Elinor]

Begining of chapter 15 (view spoiler)[the stuff with Wirr is really intriguing. Why do Tol Athian have his Trace ? I'm with you on the he is the son of someone really important.
Also Davian is intrigued but he trusts his friend and says so and I like that. Hope his trust is not misplaced. (hide spoiler)]
Ok still chapter 15 : (view spoiler)[four shat'eth, like the stuff with the Watcher, also they do hunt, so I guess the Watcher was talking about shat'eth
eeeeennd two lines later : "The one you killed was their best tracker, though. We called him the Watcher." I guess I was right xD (hide spoiler)]
And still in chapter 15 (yes I have lots of thoughts tonight) : (view spoiler)["It won't work", said Wirr regarding slipping in with the royals of Andarra. Yep, he is definitely one prince of some sort. Also earlier about revising the Tenets : it needs to be done with the King and a Gifted working together. This could happen once Wirr becomes King as he will most definitely be at some point (hide spoiler)]

[Saar The Book owl]

I'm at chapter 17: I just can imagine how (view spoiler)[Nihim Sethi, the priest of the God of Balance made his entry. (hide spoiler)] That's just hilarious.

[Veronica]

I'm at the end of chapter 39 now too....

(view spoiler)[I'm curious about the fact that both Caeden's and Malshesh's lady loves are described in almost the exact same way.

Caeden's memory (ch. 29): "The most beautiful woman he had ever seen was standing next to him. Her alabaster skin was flawless. Her long black hair was loose, cascading down her back almost to her waist...she had a perfectly oval face, with full, red lips...Her eyes were blue..."

Malshesh's memory (ch.39): "The most beautiful woman he had ever seen sat beside him. Her long, black hair was straight and gleamed in the light of the lanterns. She was slim, with an oval face, large blue eyes, and a delicate mouth. Her full lips curled upward slightly as she saw him watching her..." (hide spoiler)]

Coincidence?

I'm leaning heavily towards Gifted and Augurs needing some checks and balances in place. (view spoiler)[Davian is a good person but he basically mind raped Malshesh by forcing his way into his locked chest of memories. (hide spoiler)] If a good person finds it so easy to override the wishes of others just because they're curious, how easy for an unscrupulous person to use the same abilities in even more horrible ways.

[Choko]

Elinor, a ton of great points! I think you are on the right track (•‿•)... This is my first time reading this series, so I can only speculate, like you◉‿◉

[Choko]

Saar, I thought that was cool too! I like Nihim!

[Choko]

V, you are so right! I thought we had that description before, but I couldn't remember who it was... This can't be a coincidence!!! And once the concepts of Time Travel + Shape-Shifting are introduced... That is a perfect formula for paranoia...

[Elinor]

Chapter 16, we just met (view spoiler)[the Northwarden. And I love him. (hide spoiler)]
also (view spoiler)["The Northwarden, the king's brother. The man who had created the Tenets." I didn't know he was the king's brother ! I smell royal family drama and I'm here for it. (hide spoiler)]

[Saar The Book owl]

Elinor Master of Gifs wrote: "Chapter 16, we just met [spoilers removed]"

Yes, but I thought, if I remember correctly, there's more story behind him. (view spoiler)[I think that Elocien is related to someone important. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Elinor, I think at this point is when Asha is aware that (view spoiler)[ The Nortwarden is our boy's father... And apparently that has a lot to do with the tenets... (hide spoiler)] ... And I love Royal intrigue too(•‿•)

[Veronica]

Elinor Master of Gifs wrote: "Chapter 16, we just met [spoilers removed]
also [spoilers removed]"

I like him too. I hope he's just as he says he is.

[Elizabeth]

Just finished chapter 27. I'm so confused and have so many questions that I can't wait to be answered.

[Tammie]

Elizabeth wrote: "Just finished chapter 27. I'm so confused and have so many questions that I can't wait to be answered."

I had a lot of questions at that point too!

[Veronica]

I'm in chapter 42 and my memory is failing me...(view spoiler)[who was it who told Caeden to visit this Havran Das guy? Alaris? I don't remember who that was. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

V, (view spoiler)[ the dude he met in that dream-like place that Caeden created and Alaris told him they were brothers, I am guessing not blood brother, but n the same side... He was surprised that Caeden really didn't remember who he was... (hide spoiler)]

I am also at Ch 44... Several times already it has been mentioned that (view spoiler)[ both the King and his brother have been acting out of character. Since they are exhibiting such drastically different personalities than they had before, I wonder if both are being mentally manipulated by some Auger or other, or even one by the one side and the King by the dark side, since by treating the Gifted that way, the kingdom is really without its most powerful defenders. But I don't want the Gifted to just get back to power, because they can become tyrants very easily... There has to be a middle ground somehow.

Also, I am really nervous at this point. The kingdom folks are really underestimating the Blind Ones, and I am starting to wonder if this is some kind of mental manipulation too, making folks feel blaze about the danger. I hate, hate, hate when mental manipulation and compulsion are in play! That drives me nuts!

About the Venerate, they have been mentioned several times already and I wonder who the hell they are. They must be important, since we see them named in situations when something bad is happening. I need more information! (hide spoiler)]

[Elinor]

Choko wrote: "Saar, I thought that was cool too! I like Nihim!"
I liked that part as well !

Chapter 19 and mandatory ship update ^^ (view spoiler)[so I didn't like Davian and Asha in love. It was all too easy. Also I don't like how when Asha thinks about the slaughter, before she knows that the boys escaped, she just thinks about Davian and not her other friend... I mean I had the feeling the three of them were pretty close. And, yeah, too easy and seen and done so many times I stopped keeping track. But : Asha with Erran. Now that is a ship I can get invested in ! (hide spoiler)]

[Saar The Book owl]

I've finished chapter 19: (view spoiler)[The truth about Wirr has come out. I understand that Karaliene can't approve their question, but it's glad that she offers them an alternative. (hide spoiler)]

[Veronica]

Choko wrote: "V, [spoilers removed]

I am also at Ch 44... Several times already it has been mentioned that both..."

Thanks, Choko! And I agree wholeheartedly (view spoiler)[about the mind manipulation thing. There definitely need to be some system of checks and balances in place to keep Gifted/Augers from abusing their powers. (hide spoiler)]

[Veronica]

Elinor Master of Gifs wrote: "Choko wrote: "Saar, I thought that was cool too! I like Nihim!"
I liked that part as well !

Chapter 19 and mandatory ship update ^^ [spoilers removed]"

Agreed. (view spoiler)[I'm not enthused about Davian and Asha as a romantic pairing either. I don't see the sparks there. And it also always annoyed me that she seemed to only think of Davian when she thought everyone else at the school had been slaughtered. Wirr was supposed to be her good friend too. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Soooo... I finished. I liked it a lot, but it definitely had it's issues. However, I like the scope and the ambitious story Arc. I think in places there were unnecessary complications, which did nothing for the plot or character development, but I am glad to find a new author that I can get to like a lot.

(view spoiler)[ The tenets being changed, but not completely removed made me happy. I would have probably thought of a way to bind even the Shadows somehow. They seem to be outside of the laws somehow, and despite being on the lowest ring of the Totem Poll socially and hated by all sides, I would like them being unable to commit crimes willy-nilly... And that "shadow" is an Auger! Since they manipulate Kan, being cut off from the source of Essence means nothing for their abilities... I don't feel comfortable having those dudes around at all...

Davean is going willingly into the snake's nest! And he is kind of gullible, so that makes me very nervous. I don't want him to keep working for folks that would use him for bad things...

The old dude that saved him - I don't believe he has ever meant him any harm. I think the guy who is gathering the new Augers is using manipulation somehow and I even suspect he is behind the King's weird behavior. I think he is sawing doubt in Davean and is tricking him in believing that old dude is lying to him. And I am fascinated by how he is still fighting the compulsion from being in the room when trying to save Davean as a kid, and the unconscious kid made everyone cut their own faces and kill themselves... That is a good touch ...

I am sorry so many of the good guys died, but also hated that we were right and the North Warden's nice persona was actually manipulation and he was truly a dick! I hope Wirr never finds out, because it will break his heart!

I can't imagine a way, even if Magical, where you can become a brilliant swordsman by learning from transfer of memories! I am sorry, but that is a very big stretch, and in this case unnecessary. It really didn't do much for the character nor the situation. Marshal Arts are as much body memory and training as mental understanding and knowledge. I didn't see the need for this, except to make Davean more powerful and diminish the sword dude's importance to the story...

There were a ton of things that were revealed about Caeden in the last chapters and I am not sure how I feel about it. I knew he had been a bad dude, but despite his disgust of what he had done in his previous life, the ease with which he was killing all whom he perceived as possible to bring him danger, was horrible!!! I liked and rooted for him the whole time, but I am having a hard time justifying his actions... He had better really work on redeeming himself and it had better be worth it!!!

Finally we discovered that Licanus is a sword, apparently a very powerful one. Interesting... (hide spoiler)]

And now there are a ton of more questions to be answered and I am looking forward to finding the answers with you guys (✷‿✷)

[Tammie]

Elinor Master of Gifs wrote: "Choko wrote: "Saar, I thought that was cool too! I like Nihim!"
I liked that part as well !

Chapter 19 and mandatory ship update ^^ [spoilers removed]"

I agree. (view spoiler)[I didn't mind a romance with Davian, but I also like her with Erran a little more. (hide spoiler)]

[Tammie]

Up to chapter 32 now. (view spoiler)[ I wasn't expecting this book to have time travel and shape shifting in it. It has been an interesting twist. Overall this book has not gone as I thought it would. I originally thought it would be the three friends traveling on the run together. I'm glad it hasn't been so predictable. I'm still enjoying Asha's chapters the most and find myself looking forward to them. That last one with her kidnapping though. I feel like she can never catch a break! What else will happen to her? A little romance with Erran might be a good thing for her. (hide spoiler)]

[Elinor]

Re-ship : (view spoiler)[It really feels obligatory to be honest like he is the hero so he has to go with the main girl but no one is buying it (hide spoiler)]
Otherwise, I'm enjoying it a lot and I'm feeling a strong Sanderson vibe and this is great

[Veronica]

I'm finished now too.

Overall I liked the story but it did end up feeling very YA to me. Also the world-building just felt overly muddied. I've read Malazan so I'm not averse to dealing with thousands and thousands of years of history and hundreds of names for various characters and places...but this sort of felt cobbled together and sometimes things just didn't make sense.

(view spoiler)[Like the flame dude guarding the Licanius sword tells Caedon that he's tried to get the sword many times over hundreds of years, wearing different forms...but then a couple of pages later tells Caedon that he's tried very hard to avoid upholding whatever Pact was made. Yet, successfully getting the sword is what triggers the Pact and starts the one-year-and-a-day deadline.

I'm still not clear on who Devaed Arkein is. Is he the Lord who ended up killing his entire wedding party in an attempt to revive his murdered bride? And also Malshesh? And now Caedon, apparently. And he really did slaughter that entire village.

So the Caedon meat sock is apparently just housing the spirit/whatever of Devaed, who is thousands of years old. So of course he's crushing on a teenage girl. *rme* Yet another fantasy story where none of the potential romances inspire any interest in me.

It sucks that Elocien never actually changed into a better man after all. Poor Wirr must never know.

I don't see why Kol had to die.

I'm curious about why Davaed, who is now Caedon, ordered Asha to be spared. (hide spoiler)]

I'm leaning towards giving it 3 stars. I liked it and it was a fast read but I never felt 100% pulled in to the world. Also, much like with the WoT series, the young leads in this feel like they're all pretty tightly wrapped in plot armor so the stakes don't feel all that real.

[Mayim]

Veronica wrote: "Just started this today, also after just finishing The Great Hunt (WoT #2). Choko, did you notice the map here? This world also has an Aryth Ocean and a Sea of Storms, just like the WoT world. Inte..."

I started this because for whatever reason I could not get into WoT #2 and before I knew I was nearly 1/3 in! This book is fascinating! I love the intrigue!

[Veronica]

It reads really quickly, Mayim.

[Mayim]

It does that. And despite the many breaths people didn’t know they were holding, it is also well written. At least in terms of plotting. I have tons of conspiracy theories already.

[Choko]

This is what I was saying earlier - if I have the time to think about all those conspiracy theories, then the story hasn't sucked me in... But I did enjoy it◉‿◉

[Olivia]

Mayim wrote: "It does that. And despite the many breaths people didn’t know they were holding, it is also well written. At least in terms of plotting. I have tons of conspiracy theories already."

Considering it's a debut, I forgave all the breaths and all the people passing out at the end of chapters etc. It's immensely readable!

[Elinor]

And another ship update on the very begining of chapter 21 : (view spoiler)[of course I would be shipping Aelric with Wirr and of course I would be denied the gay ship as well (hide spoiler)]
(view spoiler)[or Caeden x Aelric ? Either way, it's going to be a gay ship, and I'm going to be disappointed because I feel this is a very hetero book (hide spoiler)]

[Barry]

Ch 28 (view spoiler)[
Well that took an unexpected turn. I don't know if the time-travelling element will mesh well with the more traditional fantasy elements, though. (hide spoiler)]

[Veronica]

Barry wrote: "Ch 28
Well that took an unexpected turn. "

I don't mind that element per se (view spoiler)[(Doctor Who fan and all) (hide spoiler)], but here it did sort of muddy up the plot waters, IMO.

[Tammie]

Barry wrote: "Ch 28
Well that took an unexpected turn... "

I worried about that too. It hasn't bothered me so far though.

[Tammie]

Chapter 38 (view spoiler)[ Wow, what Malshash did was absolutely horrid. I do not think I would be able to trust this guy, but what choice does Davian have right now? (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Actually, for some reason, I trusted Malshash from the start... I have no idea why...

Also my opinion, I think the time travel element is a bit too much. I have a feeling it will allow for a ton of serendipitous breaks in the future...

[Tammie]

Choko wrote: "Actually, for some reason, I trusted Malshash from the start... I have no idea why...

Also my opinion, I think the time travel element is a bit too much. I have a feeling it will allow for a ton o..."

I trusted him too, until I read the part about his past and what he did.

[Tammie]

I wish I felt like this was a quick and easy read like others have said. But it feels like it's taking me forever to get through this book. I'm enjoying it when I'm reading it, but there is something about it that doesn't quite click with me. I feel no urgency to pick it up and read it. I can put it down and not really think about it.

[Veronica]

I totally get that, Tammie. Speaking only for myself, a quick and easy read doesn't necessarily mean that I'm super invested in it. In fact, when I'm really loving a book it typically takes me a bit longer to read because I want to savor it and/or I'm stopping to reread great passages over and over again. With this book, I liked it but I too never truly clicked with the characters or the plot. I felt like I was just superficially engaged, if that makes sense.

[Mayim]

Choko wrote: "This is what I was saying earlier - if I have the time to think about all those conspiracy theories, then the story hasn't sucked me in... But I did enjoy it◉‿◉"


I have been thinking about it a bit (in between the chapter 28 onward (view spoiler)[similar worries concerning random time travel (hide spoiler)]) but I guess my biggest (still not so huge) issue is that things are too easy for the protaginists, not that the protagonists are plot-insulated against sudden demise.

Whispers on the side: Maybe I am too weary of various authors wanting to be so grrm that they copy about the only aspect of this writing that does not require talent (this and disgusting sex scenes)

Back to normal voice: Rather the problem is that they have it too easy! Like Ash (view spoiler)[gets to the most important person and puff! becomes his confidante just like that the most important person has not only all the capabilities at his disposal --including fully trained augurs!!-- but also the right state of mind that makes things very convenient (hide spoiler)] or Dav who meets a stranger and (view spoiler)[oh, did I forget to mention that I am an augur too? I also like bacon just like you... no, that's sarcasm (hide spoiler)]

Things like that. They take the star away. The rest is very nice.

[Choko]

Agree completely!!! Particularly about all those authors who choose to take the gruesomeness of the Grim Dark genre and forget about the plot... Thankfully, we don't have this here. But I am noticing all those easy loopholes for our protagonists too... As I said, I am noticing it, but it didn't bother me too much... I am one of those old school souls who still crave the honorable characters to win at the end (✷‿✷)

[Choko]

Tammie, I get that. We read those books and some of them connect with us more than others. It doesn't make them bad books, just some times we might not be in the right state of mind or just the right mood... I am glad you are here talking about it with us (•‿•)

[Elinor]

Chapter 26 : (view spoiler)[I don't really know what the fuck is happening with Davian but Wirr x Aelric intensifies

"The two of you are becoming close - anyone with eyes can see it." ?? What ? I have not seen a single thing about Wirr and Dezia getting that close. What I HAVE seen is Aelric and Wirr bonding over feeling guily for things one cannot control. (hide spoiler)]

[Mayim]

it seems you are bent to get you gay romance, Elinor ;)

[Elinor]

Mayim wrote: "it seems you are bent to get you gay romance, Elinor ;)"
Yes I am >< I'm sorry about commenting only about that xD