Reading 1001 discussion
This topic is about
Monkey
Past annual reads
>
Journey to the West Volume 1
date
newest »
newest »
Mod
Monkey is born from a stone. He goes through the waterfall and claims the status of Monkey King. Monkey King becomes depressed and decides to leave and seek truth. He goes on a quest over seas looking for immortals so he can learn to be immortal. Monkey finds an immortal and becomes a disciple. He is given a same. Sun Wukong. Or Monkey Awakened to Emptiness. To smash foolish emptiness he had to be awakened to emptiness.
That's what I've learned about Monkey so far. I only just learned about Monkey King as folklore in 2019. I think the book is a oral history, folklore, progressing toward fantasy but not pure fantasy.
I was not surprised to find a creation story here and compared it to the other creation stories, especially the one I am most familiar with (Judeo-Christian). I think that the book has a lot of information about Buddhism. At the end of Chapter 1, the Immortal is saying their are many ways to Truth but in the Christian religion, it is generally stated there is one way.
The journey is the one Monkey makes to find eternal life so he doesn't have to die. He fears becoming old and weak and the Underworld controlled by the King of Hell. He states that his life will be lived in vain.
The humor for me was when the immortal asks him what his surname is and he says that he has never been surly. I thought that was a good comeback.
Mod
While on a journey, monkey becomes enlightened. But he is sent away, back to his home and he is not to tell anyone where he learned the Truth.
When he gets back, Monkey fights the Demon god of chaos and wins.
I found the first few pages interesting. In most of the explanation, the narrative is very familiar. It sounds like and follows the Bible's creation story. I knew nothing about the Monkey King
I finished the first volume this month, and since I finished all of the hard copy books I planned for this month already, I started chapter 2. Overall, I really enjoyed it and gave it 4stars. The episodic structure plus fantasy characteristics with one overarching quest really reminded me of a lot of the cartoons I loved as a kid (and sometimes adult)-like Pokemon, Monster Rancher, Adventure time. The way it is both lofty spiritual and culturally relevant fantasy epic and a quirky comedy reminded me of Spirited Away, and made me realize I would love to see this book as an animated show or movie. 1. I really liked the first 4 chapters about Monkey’s origin story. He’s a total jerkass with ambitions of divine grandeur- but in the most fun way. I loved the part where he steals the immortality peaches from the fairies who come to harvest them for the festival (I could really see that whole sequence in animated fantasy) and declares himself the “great sage”. Also love the bit about how he can manifest every hair on his body into something else (such as the scene where he makes an army of monkey lackeys), and has a spear that morphs in size that he usually keeps in his ear. The parts about Monkey ending in his banishment under the mountain to never be released was a great ending to the prologue chapters before Tan Sanzang’s main arc.
2. Absolutely nothing: I hadn’t heard of this story or the surrounding traditional folklore about the Monkey King. I knew broadly that Buddhist, Confucian, Taoist, and traditional Chinese fusion mythology is part of traditional Chinese culture and history, but not much beyond that.
3. I think it’s that combo of influences described in the last question. I also like the way it is both a religious/mythological epic and a satire on bureaucracy- two things that seem irreconcilable (like combining Lord of the Rings and The Office). The marrying of Buddhism and Taoism is very culturally unique to China, as is the invention of bureaucracy and the way it is discussed here. But, it does span across time and space in that satire of bureaucracy and high fantasy has since become a mainstay of Western fiction as well.
4. I would call this a novel: there is an overall arc beyond each episodic trial. I would also consider it fantasy as I said above in the same spirit as Spirited Away in how it incorporates elements of existing religious mythology and reworks them (Chronicles of Narnia does this as well for a Western Example).
5. I think it’s a really interesting account of how these different influences converge so far, and the quest for bodhisattva is well explored in the book.
6. It is the quest with trials along the way toward a goal/destination, in this case it is to attain Sutras from Central Asia and India.
7. It’s a royal lineage. This book was written during the Ming dynasty.
8. I got the impression it was because he wants to ascend to a greater godhood than he has earned with the pantheon yet.
9. It pokes fun at bureaucracy (giving Monkey a fake position to pacify him etc), the character of Pigsy is really funny, it playful in its fantasy (the interchange between the peach fairies and Monkey was great). I’m enjoying it and looking forward to the next parts.
We learn that the Monkey was born from an immortal stone on Flower-Fruit Mountain. By bravely entering the waterfall in the Water-Curtain Cave before any other monkeys, he declares himself Monkey King. He leaves in search of Buddha, Immortals and Holy Sages who hold the secret of immortality. He changed his name from Stone Monkey to Monkey King and then to Handsome Monkey King. He was not known for his humility! The patriarch gave him the name Sun Wu Kong, or Wake-to-the-Void. He learnt from the Immortals the traditions of Dao (or The Way) and acquired supernatural powers. He is the original superhero.2. It is hard to live in Hong Kong or see a Beijing opera without running into The Monkey King. He is a character in most operas, is a favourite in children's books and comics, and there have been numerous movies and televisions series about him. What I had not thought of before I read the introduction to this novel, is that he is a version of Hanuman of the Ramayana. In this epic Rama's wife Sita is kidnapped by Ravana and taken to Lanka. Hanuman, the Monkey King, helps Rama free Sita and take her home. This story is prominent in Sri Lanka, in fact, Sita was supposedly imprisoned in Kandy, where we lived. Why I had never thought of the similarities of the two characters before I cannot think!
I had to finish volume one earlier than expected as it was a library copy and someone else has reserved it. They also have volume 2 out on loan eeek should be back in time for me to read in Q2.
1. Monkey is born from a stone and has a special destiny. That said he appears to battle with an evil side to himself which means he is constantly doing wrong and then trying to make up for it and ending up doing wrong again.
2. Nothing.
3. I am not sure I found this book unique it was different from the other Chinese classics that we have read because it is concentrating on spiritual beings rather than normal mortals.
4. Yes so far it is a novel and yes I would say it is fantasy due to the visits to heaven, the dragons, the demons, the talking monkeys etc.
5. Buddhism is good you need to pay it forward and be good in this life to achieve a reward in the next.
6. A journey is a way of learning about yourself and developing your strengths.
7. A period of time based on a family line?
8. Because he fears punishment in Heaven for what he has done or maybe he fears no longer existing.
9. I would say the silliness is the humour and the fact that monkey never learns.
Some things that struck me:
The fight between Erlang and Monkey when they both keep changing shapes into different animals to escape or capture the other - anyone else reminded of that scene in The Sword in the Stone?
"Great Sage Equalling Heaven Was Here" I love this ancient graffiti and how it shows we haven't changed much in all that time.
"if you want a future don't do anything with no future in it" Sound advise.
The scene with the baby in the river reminded me of the story of Moses being put in the basket and raised by the pharaoh's daughter.
1. Monkey is born from a stone and has a special destiny. That said he appears to battle with an evil side to himself which means he is constantly doing wrong and then trying to make up for it and ending up doing wrong again.
2. Nothing.
3. I am not sure I found this book unique it was different from the other Chinese classics that we have read because it is concentrating on spiritual beings rather than normal mortals.
4. Yes so far it is a novel and yes I would say it is fantasy due to the visits to heaven, the dragons, the demons, the talking monkeys etc.
5. Buddhism is good you need to pay it forward and be good in this life to achieve a reward in the next.
6. A journey is a way of learning about yourself and developing your strengths.
7. A period of time based on a family line?
8. Because he fears punishment in Heaven for what he has done or maybe he fears no longer existing.
9. I would say the silliness is the humour and the fact that monkey never learns.
Some things that struck me:
The fight between Erlang and Monkey when they both keep changing shapes into different animals to escape or capture the other - anyone else reminded of that scene in The Sword in the Stone?
"Great Sage Equalling Heaven Was Here" I love this ancient graffiti and how it shows we haven't changed much in all that time.
"if you want a future don't do anything with no future in it" Sound advise.
The scene with the baby in the river reminded me of the story of Moses being put in the basket and raised by the pharaoh's daughter.
Mod
I also finished Vol. 1 and the first chapter of Vol 2 because I needed to read the end of the story about the Great Immortal and how Monkey was going to get out of being punished for destroying the Manfruit Tree. 1. What do we learn about Monkey in this first part.
Although at first I thought that we were spending an awful lot of time with Monkey before meeting our "hero" The Tang Monk, I have slowly realized that Monkey is in fact our main character and hero, at least for Vol. 1. He is one of the lesser immortals due to his conniving himself into immortality (stealing the pills and food of immortality) rather than thru truly religious or scholarly pursuit but he was also punished for his crazy acts and hubris, has turned over a new leaf and is helping Sanzang journey to get the Buddhist scriptures.
2. What did you know about the Monkey King going into this work of literature?
Absolutely nothing. Shame on me.
3. What are the cultural specificity that make this book unique?
How does the text speak across time and space?
It is a delightful tale, that in a western culture, would be called a "buddy story". The interactions between Monkey, Pig and Friar Sand are true to any time and space although the demons and immortals are specific to Chinese culture. Much of the
cultural specificity has to do with the relationship between the hierarchy of Heaven and the hierarchy of mortal incarnations and the Emperor's court on Earth. It was confusing at first but I am beginning to understand it a touch better. Also there is an interesting rivalry between the Taoist and the Buddhists.
4. Is this a novel? Do you think it is Fantasy? Why or why not?
Yes, although it weaves in a great deal of mythology, poetry and fantasy which clearly is understood in part and known by people in the Chinese Culture, for me, it reads like a novel. A very unique novel.
5. What do we make of religion in this book?
I strangely feel as if much of the book is mocking religion. Are other people feeling that? So many of the immortals seem to be out to accumulate years of immortality rather than years of enlightenment.
6. What is a journey?
This also took me a while to grasp. For Monkey, Friar Sand, The Dragon King/Horse, and Pig, "the journey" is the process of enlightenment, the process of helping Sanzang and thereby building up points in their favor in heaven, and the journey has little to do really with traveling over space. Monkey, for example, can travel thousands of miles on earth and in heaven in a moment by twisting his waist. However, they need to get Sanzang across geographical space as he is only human. In this way, all of them have a slightly different life journey. It is fascinating to reflect on "the rules" of this world where a simple trick like "the old golden cicada slipping out of skin" is taken for granted and bringing a immortal tree back to life takes a great deal of heavenly effort.
7. What is a Dynasty?
On earth, the inherited hierarchy of rulers / emperors.
8. Why is Monkey King afraid of dying?
Yes, why? In the beginning he is afraid of dying because he knows he will be punished endlessly in Hell and he is also afraid of simply not existing and afraid of being reincarnated into a form that again, would be a punishment. However, after becoming immortal, this fear is more directed at being locked up as he was before when he was turned to stone and had to spend 100's of years waiting to be rescued.
9. What kind of humor do we find in the book?
It really is quite amusing. The back and forth between Pig and Monkey reminds me of 2 seven year olds squabbling. Pig is often called "The Idiot" and is not terribly clever, but there are many times when he is the more calm, stoic, and practical of the two. The fact that Sanzang is often good for nothing other than praising Buddha also adds a humorous side to the journey. He often doesn't see what is really happening, when he does see he often just "falls off his horse", or "breaks out in tears". In this way, humans are really regarded as pretty useless even though he was the chosen one to travel to get the scriptures.
One more thing....I had to start keeping track of the names. The name changes are so frequent it can be confusing....I like it best when they are referred to as Tang Monk, Pig, Monkey, Friar Sand and Horse. However, there are times they are referred to as Xuanzang, Zhu Bajie, Sun Wukong, Sha Wujing and Son of Ao Run, respectively. And they all have "Buddhist" names and different courtesy names which I believe are like nicknames or familiar names so you don't need to say "Pig Awakened to Power" and can simply say "Pig"
reply | flag *
Mod
Gail, I enjoyed your comments so much. Great insights. Would you be willing to make a character list with all the names each character has so the rest of us can just steal your hard work?
1. What do we learn about Monkey in this first part.He was born from a stone on the Mountains of Flowers and Fruit. He becomes the monkey king after a feat of bravery. He is becoming older and has concerns about his mortality and starts a quest to learn the secrets of immortality.
2. What did you know about the Monkey King going into this work of literature?
I previously read the abridged version, so I am familiar with the story. I also remember reading a children's picture book about the story with my children.
3. What are the cultural specificity that make this book unique?
How does the text speak across time and space?
It centers on Chinese folklore, as well as on religious and philosophical beliefs. It also has a lot of relevance to Western beliefs.
4. Is this a novel? Do you think it is Fantasy? Why or why not?
It is definitely fantasy and definitely fiction. I guess you can call it a folk novel, as it seems to have all the elements of a novel.
5. What do we make of religion in this book?
Buddhism, Taosim, and Confucianism all play a part in this book. Monkey seems to favor Buddhism, which was not the dominant religion in China during that time period (Taosim being dominant). Perhaps the author was trying to show that there were multiple paths to enlighenment. It could also be construed as a criticism of Buddhism.
6. What is a journey?
A quest to discover something, in this case.
7. What is a Dynasty?
Similar to a monarchy. A succession of rulers in the same inherited line of descent.
8. Why is Monkey King afraid of dying?
He is getting old, and wants to rule his subjects forever. He fears punishment in the afterlife.
9. What kind of humor do we find in the book?
The characters and situations are comic. There is also a lot of humorous satire.
So much for reading conscientiously throughout the year and brushing up some Mandarin along the way!3. The bringing of Buddhist philosophy to China is rooted in fact but the allegorical journey weaves in traditional Chinese folk tales and stories of fabled deities prominent in Chinese culture, so the whole is a unique blend of many elements of tradition and literature in China. I don't think it travels well into our world, although satirising bureaucracy never grows old.
4. It is loosely part of the novelistic tradition and is definitely fantasical because little is realistic. This is my problem always with fantasy or science fiction. Both try to weave fantastical elements into "real life" but pick and choose which realistic elements to include.
5. It satirises the rigidity and hierachies of Confucianism, the mysticism of Taoism and even the Boddhisattvas have characteristics which are far too human.
6. A journey implies travelling through either time or space. I applaud Gail's answer to this question.
7. A dynasty is a succession of people from the same family in a position of power. In English we refer to the Tang Dynasty or the Ming Dynasty, for example, to refer to the rulers of China.
8. So this is where logic clashes with fantasy. Presumably the Monkey King is immortal so fear of dying is irrelevant, but his characteristics a human, if vastly exaggerrated.
9. Mostly satire, but there is a fair bit of slapstick humour.
1. What do we learn about Monkey in this first part.
2. What did you know about the Monkey King going into this work of literature?
3. What are the cultural specificity that make this book unique?
How does the text speak across time and space?
4. Is this a novel? Do you think it is Fantasy? Why or why not?
5. What do we make of religion in this book?
6. What is a journey?
7. What is a Dynasty?
8. Why is Monkey King afraid of dying?
9. What kind of humor do we find in the book?