Reading the 20th Century discussion
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What books are you reading now? (2020)
Roman Clodia wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Perhaps one of our differences in reaction, Chrissie, is that you're listening to someone who interpreted it as satirical, and therefore put that into his reading."Yes,..."
One must consciously make an effort to separate the written text form an audiobook narrator's interpretation. I must do this because I have no other choice. How do I do this? I repeat the words spoken by the narrator in my head.
You guys have been chatting as I was sleeping. I go to bed early but am an early riser.All I can say, as I listened to The Siege of Krishnapur again this morning, is that I hear funny lines. The humor is in the author's choice of words. For example, boar hunting is called pig-sticking. one guy's thoughts are "poached" and that apoplectic snapdragons guard the drives approaching a house are amusing expressions to ME. I am glad I have the ability to notice the humor. I have thrown out three examples, but there are tons.
Here you have the words printed out. You are not being influenced by the narrator of the audiobook!
Humor can exist in a serious book relaying a critical point of view!
I agree Chrissie. It is a savage form of humour but Farrell is a master of it. I thought The Siege of Krishnapur was the most satirical of the three and Fleury in particular is a classic comic caricature.
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However, I know what Chrissie means and I do agree that Audible is wonderful. If you struggle to read print, the choice is far, far wider than it was. I would probably prefer a 'bad' reading of a book, than not reading it, but it can spoil a book for me if I don't like the narrator. There are a couple I have come across - not many - that sound as though they are reading the weather, rather than a novel!
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And yes, I agree, we can always be 'resistant' to narrators/film makers and consciously see around them.
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{Smirk} :))
I agree, Audible is wonderful - it's transformed commuting (remember that?!) and boring housework. And sometimes the audio can enhance the reading experience especially when there's a strong narrative voice: I'm thinking of the Wolf Hall trilogy and Milkman as examples of brilliant audio.
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Plus whoever reads the Stuart MacBride books. Such a lovely voice - Steve Worsley. And the narrator of the P D James books is good - Daniel Weyman. I started listening to the latest P D James this week and, once Daniel Weyman had started talking, I was really 'there.' He can be quite chilling in the murder parts!
The narrator of the Campion books is excellent too.
Anyone else have a particular favourite?
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I haven't listened to the Hugh Fraser Poirots yet but they sound like I'd love them.
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I figured I had to get some proof to illustrate my point. The three examples I gave were from a very short listen, and there were more but they have already dropped from my head!
Roman Clodia wrote: "Thanks Chrissie for those examples from Farrell: 'apoplectic snapdragons' sold it to me! And yes, I agree, we can always be 'resistant' to narrators/film makers and consciously see around them."
I don't feel so upset now. I simply cannot accept that Farrell's writing is without humor. I like authors throw humor into books with serious messages.
Chrissie wrote: "I figured I had to get some proof to illustrate my point. The three examples I gave were from a very short listen, and there were more but they have already dropped from my head!"I can see Elizabeth's point though - humour in writing is often a very personal thing, and there have been books that others found funny and I didn't, so it works both ways, and although I don't do audiobooks I am aware of what a difference good narration can make thanks to BBC Radio.
Incidentally, I read the Farrell books in completely the wrong order, back in 2008 to 2009 - I started with The Siege of Krishnapur (as his first Booker winner), then read The Hill Station, The Singapore Grip and finally Troubles. 
I wonder whether those British covers had me expecting humour from the start - the NYRB covers are much more austere.
I later tracked down a second hand copy of his earlier A Girl in the Head, which was very different and not a book I could wholeheartedly recommend - the earlier novels are rarer and more expensive.
Susan and others, don't get me wrong--I adore talented narrators, but just as with printed books listeners have each their own favorites. I don't want them to speak too fast; I need time to think! I like Fraser too. In an excel document I have listed my favorites and those I dislike. It is not fun to have to consciously combat what is coming through to your ears! I am extremely glad that Audible has more and more recordings. I will listen to a bad recording if that is all that is available to me--just as Susan pointed out! They have the largest number to pick from, but it is terribly annoying when an audiobook exists but it is not available due to geographic publication restrictions. I know the names of lots and lots of good narrators, it is hard to pick just one or two. Also sometimes a good narrator fails in the reading of a book.
OF COURSE, the humor we laugh at will vary from person to person! I dislike humor that is mean. I knew a person who did this constantly, and it really annoyed me. I also think the humor we laugh at is influenced by our personal experiences.
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Dirty Weekend (1991) by Helen Zahavi
...so I could listen to the relevant edition of the wonderful Curiously Specific Book Club podcast (which is predictably great, of course).
Here’s my review
4/5
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Chrissie wrote: "For example, boar hunting is called pig-sticking. one guy's thoughts are "poached"."I do not find nastiness funny.
Chrissie wrote: " but just as with printed books listeners have each their own favorites. I don't want them to speak too fast; "As your reviews always include the narrator, it is hard not to assume the narrator influences your like/dislike of a book, and thus, your interpretation of it. I have also read reviews by others who complain the edition (usually Kindle/ebook) was filled with typos. And there are those of us who might review a book (note: complain) where there is a lack of quotation marks for dialogue, for example. All of us are influenced by more than just the author's words.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Chrissie wrote: " but just as with printed books listeners have each their own favorites. I don't want them to speak too fast; "As your reviews always include the narrator, it is hard not to assu..."
My reviews give a separate rating for the audiobook narration. I give two rating for every book--one for the book and one for the narration.
Chrissie wrote: "My reviews give a separate rating for the audiobook narration. I give two rating for every book--one for the book and one for the narration."You miss my point. If you are actually able to separate the narration from the book, then you're the only one who can separate elements - even those of us who read print editions.
I must say that once you reach the gory, horrendous attacks depicted in The Siege of Krishnapur one gets a very different impression of the book.After going through the attack scenes, one might easily forget / choose to ignore the preceding sections containing satirical humor. My question now is why the author chose to combine the two.............
Chrissie wrote: "My question now is why the author chose to combine the two............."Maybe he didn't. Many of us have laughed when uncomfortable, even when what we've laughed at isn't really humor nor funny.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Chrissie wrote: "My reviews give a separate rating for the audiobook narration. I give two rating for every book--one for the book and one for the narration."You miss my point. If you are actuall..."
I do NOT think I am the only one who can separate the two. Most people choose audiobooks because they enjoy reading books in this format. I read them because this is my only alternative. I want to judge the written text so I make an effort to separate the two. Other people could separate the two if they wanted to. They don't bother since they can choose kindle or a paper book.
ETA It definitely IS possible to separate the too but it takes an added effort . I have mentioned above how I go about doing this--I repeat the words in my head.
Chrissie, again you chose to misinterpret my remarks. I do not believe that people who read print separate their impressions when faced with things like no quotation marks or when there are typos - and those are two quick examples. You don't get those with audiobooks. Instead, you get a narrator. We are all influenced - all of us, no one is exempt - by externals.
I'll go one further. I am affected by writing, others are affected by setting or atmosphere. There are subliminals that affect how much they influence our like/dislike of a book. Sometimes we aren't even aware of their influence.We are discussing a book in this group to which I gave 3 stars. I'll just say that this discussion has probably influenced my appreciation of that book and that I might have been wrong in giving it only 3 stars. (Yes, please note: I've said I *might* have been wrong.)
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I struggled recently with the audio of On The Road - Matt Dillon mumbled, gabbled, and then SUDDENLY shouted! I hated it and had to return it to Audible. As I'd already read the book, I knew it was the narration not the text in that case and happily re-read the book instead.
But, Elizabeth, your point too is right - I have a friend who stopped taking NetGalley books because she found it off-putting in cases where the formatting hadn't been cleaned up, and couldn't enjoy the text itself as a result.
I'd say I'm also affected by writing but maybe we're not equally affected by the same writing ;)
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You're intriguing me hugely - I'm going to have to read this!
I have no doubt at all that the humour is intentional. Serious books about grave subjects are allowed moments of levity, and the word tragicomic is appropriate, as is gallows humour.
There are American examples too - Slaughterhouse 5, The Sympathizer, maybe even Moby Dick...
Hugh wrote: "I have no doubt at all that the humour is intentional. "Well, fortunately I didn't get the humor and therefore it didn't spoil the novels for me.
Roman Clodia wrote: "I'd say I'm also affected by writing but maybe we're not equally affected by the same writing ;)"
Ha! Probably not. I have been interested less and less in reading Agatha Christie because her writing is on the simple side. My face to face group had a short discussion of Hemingway a few months ago. His writing is also simple. I would at least partially attribute his success to the fact that when he was writing people had less education and could enjoy his very good stories. Perhaps Steinbeck is in the same category, for his prose is also simple. When I say "simple" here, the vocabulary and sentence structure has been analyzed at about (US) 6th grade level, or 12 year olds.
Set in 1962 in Minnesota and South Dakota, this book functions as an allegory, a tragedy, and a western-themed adventure. It explores questions of ethics that do not have clear-cut answers. Peace Like a River by Leif Enger - 4 stars - My Review
Chrissie wrote: "I must say that once you reach the gory, horrendous attacks depicted in The Siege of Krishnapur one gets a very different impression of the book..."I agree, Chrissie, that was the point I was making earlier when you first asked about satire. Farrell is initially satirising the British attitudes to imperialism etc, but as the book progresses we can discern deeper points about human reactions to the situations they are in. Personally, I liked the combination, but others may prefer one angle or the other.
Roman Clodia wrote: "You're intriguing me hugely - I'm going to have to read this! ..."Yes, read it, its good! I must read Troubles, I've had it waiting for ages.
There is less humor now.... but I do think it is a plus when humor is used to lighten a heavy topic. Knowing when to put in humor and when to avoid it is a talent.
I think humor can be used to provide relief in a tense situation. But it depends on the subject. Would anyone think humor or satire appropriate in a novel on slavery?
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Chrissie, again you chose to misinterpret my remarks. "Elizabeth, I do not want to argue with you. I promise you, I have not CHOSEN to misinterpret your remarks! I am sorry you believe so.
Speaking of humor, until examining Farrell's GR page just now, I had confused J.G. Farrell and J.G. Ballard, thinking they were one person, and admired the wide-range of his writing, though I hadn't read anything by either writer. In my defense, Ballard did write Empire of the Sun which may have helped to confuse me.
Val wrote: "Paul Beatty in The Sellout."Not about slavery. Do you people think the US invented slavery? No. Slavery was an institution in for centuries. The US Constitution forbade the importation of slaves 20 years after ratification in an attempt to rid ourselves of it. It was a compromise because the southerners (mostly English) would not have agreed to join the country. It was determined the country would not have survived without them.
I read a book about slavery with comic elements just last week - Blonde Roots by Bernardine Evaristo. In that book she swapped the roles of Europeans and West Africans, and her Cabbage Coast and other jokes at the expense of the white British did not stop her treating the serious parts of her story respectfully and honestly.
I am aware the US did not invent slavery, it is a much older institution than your country. I don't think that particular book would have been published elsewhere, and I do see it as a satire on slavery.
Val wrote: "it is a much older institution than your country. "And predates our being a country. Slavery was brought to the Americas by the English and existed here for well over 150 years before the US became a country.
Before anyone completely misunderstands me, for I might not have been saying what I meant very clearly. I do not believe that subjugation of peoples is a laughing matter. But while I point to the British in my first paragraph here (and my English ancestors came here in 1620, and kept coming for decades after), let me assure you that I think Europeans in general as well as the US have done things not be be bragged about. Those things need an honest portrayal in fiction, even when the victims of such subjugation sought comic relief in their own lives. The perpetrators of such subjugation ought not to be shown in a humorous light.
Excerpt of the description for The Sellout.... the fate of lower-middle-class Californians: "I'd die in the same bedroom I'd grown up in, looking up at the cracks in the stucco ceiling that've been there since '68 quake."
By 1968, I was living in northern California so not directly affected by the quake. But I was among the lower-middle-class Californians. I do not accept the premise. That person's parent had a college education. My parents did not. Is this supposed to be racial, that black people with an education were somehow not upwardly mobile, while those of us without were? This is simply not reality. Do I think there is discrimination in my country? Yes, but in '68 the women's movement was starting. Do I think there was discrimination based on gender? Of course. Do I think discrimination exists only in the US? No, I don't.
Finished the latest release from David Mitchell.Story of a 1960s folk-rock-psychedelic band from their formation to their reception in America as part of the “British Invasion.” The story features cameo appearances by real people of the music scene, which lends a historical flavor, as do the referenced cultural events of the time (1967-1968). It ventures into the expected areas of “sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll.”
Utopia Avenue by David Mitchell - 4 stars - My Review
I think humor can be a very useful tool when dealing with serious subjects. It helps us to be less defensive and less uncomfortable especially if the topic hits close to home. We laugh together about underlying truths which we may not have really thought about before and this can help us to see and face other truths. The truth becomes less threatening.
Chrissie wrote: "JI gave that one by Berry four stars too. Now you havet o read The Memory of Old Jack.another very good one by the author..."I am putting on my TBR list. Thank you for the recommendation.
Reading the 20th Century
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I agree with you. The humor is dark, but it is there!