Play Book Tag discussion
2020 Activities and Challenges
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Next Year's Tags - We need your input!
WooHoo! Just so everyone knows, the admins will each be throwing in 5 suggestions as well. I need to carefully think about this.....there are so many options!
Oh, my, decisions, decisions! How long do we have to suggest them if you are revealing the final list Jan 1????
Are you still going to be using some of the more common tags or is the list of 300 going to be made up entirely from member suggestions?
I threw in my 5 and they are all very on brand >:-)
You can send suggestions up to Dec. 26. We will need a few days to compile the tags, eliminate duplicates, and check them out for viability. For example, if a suggested tag has too few books to be feasible it really wouldn't be fair to everyone to use it. If we don't reach 300, we will get the rest from the most common tags like we normally do.
Meli wrote: "I threw in my 5 and they are all very on brand >:-)"Ghosts?!? lol
It’s funny. Because I have in fact thought of some interesting tags that probably wouldn’t of been on the 300, but now they don’t come to mind.
annapi wrote: "You can send suggestions up to Dec. 26. We will need a few days to compile the tags, eliminate duplicates, and check them out for viability. For example, if a suggested tag has too few books to be ..."Thanks, that gives us ten days :)
Nicole R wrote: "Meli wrote: "I threw in my 5 and they are all very on brand >:-)"Ghosts?!? lol"
Not specifically, but tangentially >:-)
I really like the idea of adding new tags, but I'm concerned that this process might inadvertently eliminate some popular tags that might be taken for granted. If each person can nominate only 5 tags, they may opt for creative or interesting tags, rather than core genres. Selecting tags from the top 300 list seems to be the core tradition of this group, so great care is required. In my experience, December deadlines don't lead to the best decisions.
Last year, I think Anita talked about getting a small committee of members to work together to help improve the list. It's a lot harder than it looks to identify the top 300, because there are so many duplicates of the same tag ideas (e.g. Canada, Canadian, Canadians, etc.). We also talked about eliminating tags that were relatively meaningless or undesirable, such as (in my opinion) "one star." There is also a problem with a popular concept that doesn't have a single agreed upon tag.
Before we add in new tags, could we consider a process that would designate which of the top 300 should be considered "safe" or which are easy to eliminate?
Another idea is to qualify or describe a tag. For instance, we might replace the tag "2005" with a description such as "published in 2005."
Thank you for sharing your concerns. I can see the full list of suggestions people have made (it is staying private for now) and can assure you there is a good mix of traditional tags with more creative ones. And, I believe that of it is too narrow that Anna is emailing you and asking you to select something different.
Also, as of now, it is looking like we will be supplementing about 1/3 of the list with tags from the top 300. The admins are planning to do that and, as always, we keep the larger picture in mind and will supplement with some of those really popular tags (which tend to be core genres) that our members may not have independently selected.
We heard a lot of grumbling this year about some of the tags and that they were too generic or really could be so loosely interpreted that nearly any book could fit. Members expressed they would like there to be a higher probability that a tag would be more specific so this is the admins listening to that feedback and coming up with a way to hopefully address it!
And, nothing here is written in stone. If we start down this path and then realize after giving it a fair shot that it is not working the way we expected, then we can change up the process again. But, for now, we’re going to give this method a fair opportunity to see how it works. The admins do absolutely nothing on a whim (I promise, we talk at length before anything we make public on PBT) and we have a sneaking suspicion that this will work better than you think 😉
Oh, and to be clear, you are absolutely not prohibited from selecting tags that are already on the top 300 list and you have always been hoping would make an appearance! So you can pick your top 5 from there is you like. Many people did this for at least one—but often more—of the top 5 tags they sent us. For example without spoiling the anonymity of anyone else’s submission, I made damn sure contemporary romance made it onto the new list! Lol.
I think 3 of my 5 were in the previous top 300 and the two other were exactly as you suggested: a a modification of a tag on the current top 300 list that made it just a bit more specific!
There are so many ways to approach the tags, but collectively the admins have 32 years of experience with tag selection, and it lies at the heart of everything we do. Our goal is always to maximize member well being and enjoyment. 300 tags is a LOT of tags. We operated with 200 for years so all major genres will be represented, and we still have a member tag choice nomination for each vote as well . . .just in case we miss anything compelling.
Once more I feel the need to thank the Mods.....so much heavy work at a time of the year when there is so much to do. Thank you, Thank you! You are all marvelous!
Ditto Joanne! We place our full hearts, trust, and gratitude in you four. What a wonderful community you have created. Blessed for every one of you at this season and always.
Thanks so much for your gracious reply, and for allowing me to put my 2 cents in. I really do appreciate everything that you do here.
I'm still working on this, but I think that this is a fun twist do do for a year. In the end even if have all 300 as suggestions, we'll only be reading 12 of them and we will be voting on 36. Also, sometimes we have had tags in the top 300 that seem rather niche-like to me.
NancyJ wrote: "Thanks so much for your gracious reply, and for allowing me to put my 2 cents in. I really do appreciate everything that you do here."This sums up everything that I love about this group - the level of respectful and friendly communication is what makes it so special! Thank you everybody who joins in in setting that tone, and of course especially the admins who work so hard behind the scenes making it all happen!
I kind of wish a removal of tags that really don't serve the purpose of PBT for expanding the range of our reading or ones that are duplicative (e.g. "funny" vs. "humor"). Another wish is possibly weighting a top dozen of so tags for major categories of books (e.g. put 5 entries for tags like mystery, science fiction, historical fiction) so they might more likely rotate through our voting every few years rather than 25 years with current scheme (i.e. 300 tags/12 months=25 years).
Um, I can't find the list of top 300 tags
Michael, here is a list I had in a word file from earlier this year. It might not be completely accurate, but it's close. Some genres are covered by more than one tag, so in effect they're weighted more heavily. For instance, many mystery books might also contain tags such as detective, crime, historical mystery, thriller, historical mystery, etc. Paranormal books are also well represented, with tags such as supernatural, fantasy, witches, ghosts, horror, dark fantasy, vampires, shape shifters, zombies, spooky, paranormal romance, paranormal fantasy, etc. The highly specific ones (e.g. ghosts) haven't done well in the voting process though.* = tags that I would delete, as well as the oldest single year tags.
2002 *
2003
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018
2019
1-star *
1001-books
1900s (= 20th century)
1990s
19th-century (= 1800's)
1st-in-series
2-stars *
2000s
20th-century (= 1900s)
21st-century (= 2000s)
3-stars *
4-star *
5-stars
abuse
academic
action
adult
adventure
africa
aliens
all-time-favorites
alpha-male
alternate-history
american
american-history
american-literature
angels
angst
animals
anthology
anthropology
arc *
around-the-world
art
asia
autobiography
bad-boys
beach-reads
biography
book-club
books
brain-candy
britain
british
business
canadian
canon
century
chick-lit
childhood
childrens
china
christian
christian-fiction
christmas
classic-literature
college
comedy
comics
coming-of-age
coming-soon *
contemporary
contemporary-fiction
contemporary-romance
cookbooks
cooking
cozy-mystery
creepy
crime
crime-fiction
criticism
cultural
dark
dark-fantasy
death
demons
detective
diversity
dragons
drama
dutch
dystopian
economics
education
emotional
england
english-literature
entertainment
epic
epic-fantasy
erotic-romance
erotica
essays
europe
european-literature
fairy-tales
faith
family
family-drama
fanfiction
fantasy
favorite-authors
female-author
female-protagonist
feminism
fiction
film
fluff
food
foreign ? international
france
french
friendship
fun *
funny
future
german
germany
ghosts
girl-power
gothic
grad-school
graphic-novels
guilty-pleasure
health
high-fantasy
historical-fiction
historical-mystery
historical-romance
history
holiday
horror
humor
inspirational
international
italian
italy
japan
japanese
juvenile
leadership
lgbtq
life
light
literary-fiction
literature
london
love
love-triangle
magic
magical-realism
male-author
male-pov
male-protagonist
manga
marriage
medical
medieval
memoir
mental-health
middle-grade
military
modern
modern-classics
modern-fiction
mom
movies
multicultural
murder
murder-mystery
music
mystery
mythology
nature
nederlands
new-adult
new-books
new-york
noir
non-fiction
nostalgia
novella
novels
page-turner
paranormal
paranormal-fantasy
paranormal-romance
parenting
personal-development
philosophy
photography
picture-books
plays
pleasure
poetry
politics
post-apocalyptic
psychological
read-for-school
realistic
realistic-fiction
reference
regency
relationships
religion
reread
research
retellings
roman
romance
romantic-suspense
rory-gilmore-reading-challenge
russia
russian
sad
satire
school
school-books
science
science-fiction
secrets
self-help
self-improvement
sequels
series
sex
shapeshifters
shelfari-favorites
short-stories
smut
social-commentary
social-issues
society
sociology
spanish
speculative
spiritual
sports
star-wars
started-but-never-finished *
steampunk
steamy
stephen-king
stories (=short stories?)
summer
summer-reading
superheroes
supernatural
survival
suspense
sweet
teaching
technology
teen
theatre
theology
thriller
time-travel
tragedy
translation
travel
trilogy
true-crime
uk
united-states
university
urban-fantasy
vampire
victorian
violence
war
weird
werewolves
western
witches
women
work
world-literature
wwii
ya
ya-fantasy
ya-romance
young-adult-fiction
zombies
Michael wrote: "I kind of wish a removal of tags that really don't serve the purpose of PBT for expanding the range of our reading or ones that are duplicative (e.g. "funny" vs. "humor"). Another wish is possibly ..."Good points, but I think that once you get up to 300 tags, you are going to have overlap regardless since there aren't really 300 purely different genres out there.
We are reading suggestions and keeping them in mind for the future. But we are moving forward with collecting tag suggestions from members to put toward a new list of 300 tags as we have described.
Nice to know we can suggest things that are already on the top 300 - that makes life a lot easier! Great exercise - thanks so much, admins! Kicking out some of the duplication and dross and substituting some clearer tags will make it easier to generate great options every month.
So just because I'm kind of nosy, when you compile the tag list for this year, will you post it?
I leave the final word on that to Anna, but I am pretty sure that it is a yes. I do not think the final list is a secret. We are just keeping it under wraps for now so that people send 5 tags they truly want to see on the list without being influenced by others and to draw out the suspense 😉
Kate, any tag is fair game whether it is on the top 300 or not!
Nicole R wrote: "I leave the final word on that to Anna, but I am pretty sure that it is a yes. I do not think the final list is a secret. We are just keeping it under wraps for now so that people send 5 tags the..."
I didn't expect it to be released ahead of time, just wanted to see the end result.
I’m thinking on my 5 suggestions (have about 10 atm)I also have a question (sorry if you already answered it) - the person chosen to suggest the third monthly tag every month - would they just chose one of their 5? Chose a new one? Whatever they want?
Idit, the person who chooses the third tag each month is NOT restricted to one of the 5 they submit for the list.
Booknblues wrote: "So just because I'm kind of nosy, when you compile the tag list for this year, will you post it?"We actually post a link to the tag list upon request, so happy to post the final results when we are all done.
Idit wrote: "I’m thinking on my 5 suggestions (have about 10 atm)I also have a question (sorry if you already answered it) - the person chosen to suggest the third monthly tag every month - would they just cho..."
The member nominating a tag has no restrictions whatsoever on the tag they choose. It can be brand new. It can be one they nominated. It can be from the list of 3000 tags. Or not.
NancyJ wrote: "Michael, here is a list I had in a word file from earlier this year. It might not be completely accurate, but it's close. Some genres are covered by more than one tag, so in effect they're weighted..."Even though I mostly like your suggested eliminations, we know that we have done years before, and people voted for them . . .so we know from experience that a given year is a legitimate tag that works even though some people HATE when the year is selected.
It's a fine line, and in the past we have tended to err on the conservative side of keeping a tag IN when in doubt.
Michael wrote: "they might more likely rotate through our voting every few years rather than 25 years with current scheme (i.e. 300 tags/12 months=25 years)...."I understand the goal of what you are saying here, but mathematically, that's not really how it works I don't believe. Someone who is better at math can correct me, but I believe it would work as follows.
The odds of selecting a given tag at random are 1/300. If we weighted each of the major genres (and eliminated other tags so as to stay at 300), the odds move to 5/300 per tag or 1/60. If there are let's say 15 major genres, now your chance of picking a major genre would be 15/60 or 25% with each pick. That's way too high in my opinion. Especially since major genres often win the vote over the more narrow tags.
Having a member put forward a tag ups the odds that popular genres will get revisited, but we do have a three year no repeat rule . . .so that ensures the rotation stays fresh.
With 15 major genres, the way we do it, the odds are 15/300 that one of them will be selected with each drawing. That's 5% odds every month that at least one tag will be a major genre or 10% each month because I select two tags.
Now, that is offset by the fact that tags, once selected, may not be re-used for a three year period. That's the point that could be argued, and I welcome feedback in that regard. We could shorten that time to a year or some other length.
NancyJ wrote: "Thanks so much for your gracious reply, and for allowing me to put my 2 cents in. I really do appreciate everything that you do here."Thank you, Nancy. We are open to ideas and feedback, but a lot of what we do is based on our experiences and learning that have occurred over years of doing this - - but we do listen to what you all are telling us and make adaptations that seem to have only upside i.e. in the voting so that we don't go as late in the month.
Tag selection is a tough one because people's opinions vary widely on what constitutes a good tag. We try to err on the side of inclusion because the voting eliminates the truly bad ones.
Joanne wrote: "Once more I feel the need to thank the Mods.....so much heavy work at a time of the year when there is so much to do. Thank you, Thank you! You are all marvelous!"Thank you and to Nikki for your never ending support. Of course it makes us all feel great! We love running this group - - and always are striving to make it a good community for our members.
I'm actually very blown away by what voracious readers we have. It's quite something. No wonder I get so many great recommendations from you all!!! Thank goodness because when you can only read 50 to 60, they need to be well chosen.
Anita wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Michael, here is a list I had in a word file from earlier this year. It might not be completely accurate, but it's close. Some genres are covered by more than one tag, so in effect t..."I have a feeling (or hope) that no one will nominate a single year tag for the 2020 list since we will have 24 of them this year in the Bingo game.
Anita, what do you think about including a qualifier or comment with a tag? (I may have an example in my list of 5.)
Just a thought I had: Personally I like having an "off the wall" tag pop up in the voting every so often-I believe this is what has widened the subject, the authors and the books that I read. Just looking at the books I read this year for tags, out of the 25 books I read 12 of them I probably never would have picked up without the nudge of reading for the tag. In my Top 10 this year 6 of them, again, are books I may never had noticed or bothered with before I joined this group.
NancyJ wrote: "Anita wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Michael, here is a list I had in a word file from earlier this year. It might not be completely accurate, but it's close. Some genres are covered by more than one tag, ..."For the monthly reading, I don't believe it to be necessary because we've always been very relaxed about whether or not a book fits. Some people are "strict constructionists" and will only read a book that really fits a narrow definition. Others interpret broadly.
Sometimes the admins will chime in with ways we would interpret the tag, to try to gently nudge readers in a direction. But it is supposed to be fun and not too terribly rigid so that a broad audience can enjoy the group.
However, I can see considering being more specific for games. Like your suggestion of making a year be "published in year". For a game, where there are prizes, and we need a way to truly evaluate if the person has "read for the tag" . . .such specificity can be helpful.
Joanne wrote: "Just a thought I had: Personally I like having an "off the wall" tag pop up in the voting every so often-I believe this is what has widened the subject, the authors and the books that I read. Just ..."Me too! Honestly, I wouldn't normally pick up crime fiction . . .and it's not that I don't like it, but it just isn't my "go to". And I really had fun reading that month. It forced me to change gears, and it was refreshing!
Nicole R wrote: "I leave the final word on that to Anna, but I am pretty sure that it is a yes. I do not think the final list is a secret. We are just keeping it under wraps for now so that people send 5 tags the..."
Yes, don't post before we've all put in our request. I know for a fact that if I saw the list it would influence what I suggest.
I love the randomness and surprise of the monthly tag. And some of the best books I read over the last two years came from tags I didn’t vote for and would have grumbled when they were chosen. (Be it big genre tags or weird niche topic)It’s a creative art form - finding the right book for you from a genre you wouldn’t have thought of. I love it
And this year - trying to fit things to bingo, tag and pole would be extra challenging and fun
(Like the decathlon challenge of fitting a book for the three monthly tags. I loved that
Anita wrote: "Michael wrote: "they might more likely rotate through our voting every few years rather than 25 years with current scheme (i.e. 300 tags/12 months=25 years)...."Good food for thought. However one considers the stats, some of the most common tags suffer from being placed on equal probability with very minor tags. Conversely, some of the most common tags are so broad as to not make it serve in our goal of expanding or focusing reading in interesting directions (e.g. fiction).
You ask for 5 new tag votes, but I have so many that I think would make great monthly tags that I need discussion help in my selection. Maybe my candidates can inspire votes by others:
books about books
immigrant experience
immigration
refugee
genocide
racism
climate change
global warming
substance abuse
alcoholism
family relationships
motherhood
Paris
Australia
India
Poland
Ireland
Arctic
Roman Empire
Ancient Greece
farming
agriculture
fishing
mining
mountain climbing
baseball
dogs
horses
espionage
medical thriller
psychological thriller
legal thriller
police procedural
apocalyptic
space opera
artificial intelligence
bioterrorism
parallel worlds
virtual reality
World War 1
World War 2
Vietnam War
American Civil War
I don't see much interest in discussion here for reducing tags. Would be a pain to try to vote, but maybe we can get some consensus. I agree with Nancy's votes (asterisks) and add more to my list as not promising for a monthly selection. Anita points out that thoughts in that direction are sometimes undermine by voting (like choice of the 2005 year tag this month). So here is my suggestion of tags to ditch, and if anyone imagines voting for any of them, it can be removed from consensus list. Of course, Anita and Nicole you can safely defer the issue, as the monthly voting for tags would weed out poor tags:
My candidates for tags to drop from the 300 list:
1-star *
2-stars *
3-stars *
4-star *
5-stars
1st-in-series
all-time-favorites
american
arc *
around-the-world
book-club
brain-candy
canon
century
comics
coming-soon *
entertainment
fanfiction
favorite-authors
female-author
fiction
fluff
foreign ? international
life
light
middle-grade
modern
mom
nederlands
new-adult
new-books
novels
read-for-school
reread
research
rory-gilmore-reading-challenge
school-books
secrets
shelfari-favorites
speculative
started-but-never-finished *
star-wars
summer
summer-reading
sweet
weird
work
2 of the countries you list were on my 5 suggestion list-Poland and Ireland, so hopefully those already made the list!
I am laughing because a couple on your drop list were on other people's top 5 . . .which goes to show that tastes vary widely. Nancy pinpointed a few very select tags where I can see the argument as to why they might be superfluous. I am hopeful they fall off the table with 100 or so being generated through suggestions.
I like your long list! I submitted mountain climbing if it's any help. I considered baseball, but figured no one would vote for it.
Michael, I love your list. You spotted one of mine and I always love any war books, you did leave off the war I suggested.I went with suggestions which were topical, one war and one fairly broad area of the world..
Booknblues wrote: "Michael, I love your list. You spotted one of mine and I always love any war books, you did leave off the war I suggested....""War" is on existing list. But help me out, is a tag on one of 4 wars suggested a happier target for a monthly choice, or are you just as happy if you and the group were reading about any war?
Michael wrote: "Booknblues wrote: "Michael, I love your list. You spotted one of mine and I always love any war books, you did leave off the war I suggested....""War" is on existing list. But help me out, is a t..."
I think I would like to specify.
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
Prodigal Summer (other topics)Flight Behavior (other topics)
Rules for suggesting tags:
1. Limit of 5 suggestions. If you submit more, we will take only the first 5.
2. Please PM (private message) me (annapi) your tag suggestions, and use the header "2020 Tags". This will make it easier for me to track the PMs. Please DO NOT post your suggestions here.
You may submit tags up to midnight on Dec. 26. We will reveal the final list on January 1st. So PM away!
Questions? Comments? Post them here.