The Catholic Book Club discussion
This topic is about
The Spiritual Combat
The Spiritual Combat (Dec. 2019)
>
3. Understanding and Will
date
newest »
newest »
Mod
Ever restrain your understanding as much as possible, and love to keep it low.
I disagree with this. In my opinion, it goes against the doctrine of the Catholic Church, which has always defended knowledge and understanding, an thus has made science possible.
Also there are many counter-examples of Saints who acted against Scupoli's advice, such as St. Anselm, St. Albertus Magnus, St. Thomas Aquinas, and many others. As a modern example, let me cite George Lemaître, the author of the Big Bang theory, who was a priest and counseled Pope Pius XII. I don't think any of these people restrained their understanding as much as possible and loved to keep it low.
I agree with you, Manuel. I read these passages as directed to a select few, mystics and serious contemplatives, and not to the rest of us who have to earn our heavenly crowns by navigating the practice of our faith through the rough waters of this world and often in opposition to its people. I read every day about the saints we celebrate, and noticed how married people and single lay men and women were in the minority among the bishops and martyrs. Yet they are there, and enough that we can each find some of them to adopt as patrons. Our challenge, I think, is to keep an awareness that God can be with us in all we say and do and not to be distracted when we are trying to live out our vocations with love and grace and trust in God's mercy. But it's so very hard.
Mod
Well, there are two kinds of books on devotion and devout life: 1. those which are addressed mainly to priests, monks and nuns, and those for the general public. Of the latter I'd mention St. Peter of Alcantara's "Treatise on Prayer and Meditation," which we read here two years ago. After having read about 1/4 of Scupoli's book, I'm afraid it belongs to the first category.
As one indication in that sense, I have just read chapter 19, about "how to resist lusts," and there's not a single mention of marriage. It looks like the reader is assumed to have made a vote for celibacy.
Well, readers who are not priests or nuns should get what we can out of this book.
The way I understand this is a bit different. It is not wrong to be curious or to understand science or to build up knowledge. It is only wrong when we become overly dependent on this knowledge or obsessed with the gathering and analyzing of information. There's a difference between knowing about the Lord and knowing the Lord. We can get so preoccupied with head knowledge and forget about heart and soul. Our relationship with God is more dependent on how much time we spend with Him in prayer and contemplation than in theology, though the latter is of course helpful especially for those of us with more of a philosophical bent.
Mod
But in chapter 7, the title says "...understanding must be preserved from ignorance and curiosity", and a little later it says "With regard to understanding, we must be on our guard against two faults, which very commonly impair its action. Ignorance is the first..." and in chapter 9 it follows with "The other danger against [we must be on] guard is curiosity." Not too much curiosity or obsessive curiosity, but just curiosity.
I tried to understand it as you say, but taking everything into account, I think that if he intended it to be thus understood, he should have stated it more clearly.
Mod
When I wrote this, I didn't know yet that the book was addressed to a "sister in Christ" (the figliuola of the Italian edition). I think she must have been a nun, therefore my assumption that the book was written mainly for persons dedicated exclusively to a religious life must be correct.
Manuel wrote: "In chapter 9, speaking about curiosity, Scupoli writes: ...you must become as one dead to all earthly things which do not concern you, though they may be harmless in themselves."I didn't take this as going against scientific pursuits. The key here is "which do not concern you". We all have to do our work, and for some that will be studying, researching, etc.
I took this warning, instead, about idle curiosity about other people's lives, mindless browsing of the internet... We are bombarded by so much information that this is a good ascetic practice for everybody.
Manuel wrote: "As one indication in that sense, I have just read chapter 19, about "how to resist lusts," and there's not a single mention of marriage. It looks like the reader is assumed to have made a vote for celibacy"Yes, we have figured out already that he is probably writing for a nun. But even in this chapter, I didn't think it was not applicable to a married person, who can also be tempted this way. He's providing valuable tips on how to resist the temptation.
Mod
But you still have to explain away the words he adds next: Ever restrain your understanding as much as possible, and love to keep it low.
Mod
This makes sense, Manuel. I was struck when I read that Francis de Sales carried a copy of this book with him at all times, reading from it daily. But I don't recall him advising in his Introduction to a Devout Life that lay people ought to do the same. That would suggest that he didn't necessarily consider it appropriate for everyone, even though he relied on it so heavily.
Mod
True. However, as I read on Scupoli's book, I've started to find quite a number of things that can be applied to everybody (or at least to me), especially in chapters 24, 25 and 27-32, as my quotes show.
Manuel wrote: "Madeleine wrote: "I agree with you, Manuel. I read these passages as directed to a select few, mystics and serious contemplatives, and not to the rest of us who have to earn our heavenly crowns by ..."I like much more Saint Peter Alcantara tan Lorenzo Scupoli, although Reading my foreword was essential for Saint Francis Sales.
Saying something positive of Scupoli is somebody that he is critic with body punishment that this thing might provoke the pride of the Christian. He defended this opinión in several ocassions during the book.
Mariangel wrote: "Manuel wrote: "In chapter 9, speaking about curiosity, Scupoli writes: ...you must become as one dead to all earthly things which do not concern you, though they may be harmless in themselves."I ..."
Yes this is one of the defaults of our age the excess of information not all necessary.
Other thing very interesting is that Scupoli reffers to God as a General or Comander. I suppose that in this case he was inspired by Saint Ignatius Loyola, who created the Jesuits he was inspired for his experience as a soldier.
Fonch, you are so right about that vice of our Age. My electronic curiosity and endless activity aggravates me to no end.
Fergus wrote: "Fonch, you are so right about that vice of our Age. My electronic curiosity and endless activity aggravates me to no end."This thing i have learnt when i was preparing the boarding exam to become a teacher of the secondary school. The teacher who prepare the boarding exam urge in this question. I was totally disagree in the majority of questions with him but in this i was totally agree. We keep unnecessary information of all.
Mod
And yet, as you note above, there is no shortage of saintly priests who have by their lives rejected this advice.
Do you agree with what Scupoli says about these two powers, or can you offer any counter-example against his tenets?