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Bad Reviews and the Star Rating System
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Wade
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Nov 20, 2014 07:46PM
I agree. A star, of any amount, should come with a review. But this isn't a prefect system and Goodreads feels it's ok to leave stars, of any number, with or without a review...Even for it's "librarians" and once that's that, there's nothing you can do. Just move forward.
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Maybe I'm a whacko but I put an e-mail address in the back of my book and invited critique. I have had some great feedback that will be incorporated into a 2nd edition. But I'm still not sure how well I would take a 1 or 2 star review, I've been called illiterate in a 5 star review and that didn't bother me.
Jim wrote: "Authors such as Stephen King, Dean Koontz, and Anne Rice are professionals who earn a comfortable living writing novels. The word professionals and the phrase earn a comfortable living are what set..."Well Anne Rice has been on a mission to keep bad reviews from being left by people who don't use their real name on Amazon. So obviously there is some fretting. Some other writers making "comfortable" livings have had well documented freak outs about reviews too.
Theresa wrote: "Many reviewers recruited like this will see it as their job to give you an honest review. "IMO, *all* reviewers should see it as their job to be honest. I long ago accepted that not everyone would love everything.
Anyone who doesn't believe it should go look up the reviews on their favorite book and see how many negative reviews it got. I am astonished that there are people who hate To Kill a Mockingbird, for example ... but there are.
Lady Echo wrote: "...It isn't the job of a paying reader to provide you with feedback."True, but a review (no matter the rating) with no explanation of why the rating was given is simply useless to everyone.
A review like: "This book suked, total waste of time" is of no use to readers or author. Why did it suck? Was it poorly written? Did it have undeveloped characters? Bad grammar? Improbable plot? Or did it simply not fit your expectation based on the book cover...or are you just a total d---?
If you don't say why you liked or disliked a book, then you might as well just write "I love ponies and mashed potatoes and Justin Bieber and--OMG!--did you see The Walking Dead last night?" Actually that would be more telling than the "it suked" review because at least then we see the kind of person the reviewer is.
RE the OP: at least someone you don't know bothered to leave a review.And should you keep writing? No.
Unless you really want to, need to, or like to. The question has everything to do with why you write. And unless the reason you write is to make everyone love you, it's totally unrelated to how the public reacts to your work.
Write what you're happy with. Seek out and listen to constructive criticism. Improve your writing as much as you can. And when you're really satisfied with a book, release it into the wild and move on to the next work.
I've always found that what I get out of writing or composing or painting/sculpting comes during the creative process, not in the public's reaction to the final product. A thick skin helps, but so does developing an emotional detachment from your work once it's done.
Willow wrote: "G.T. wrote: "Ah, but -- self-publishing has made it soo easy for wanna-be-something-I-think-I'll-try-writing and the marginal graduates who didn't "get it" in English classes to throw together a "s..."Is it fair to lump all self-pubbed authors as wanna-be's?
Fairness has nothing to do with it. I haven't done any statistical analysis but my gut instinct and experience tells me that out of all self-published novels 65% are from wanna-be writers. The remaining percentage includes writers with some type of professional writing experience in their background. They've also studied/learned/developed their abilities enough warrant a nod as an up-and-coming writer to watch. My statement wasn't meant to included established writers with a fan base who are now crossing-over (leaving traditional publishing houses)to reap the benefits that self-publishing offers. Three things set them apart -- name recognition, fan base and experience with business/marketing strategies.
Willow,I believe that it is quite difficult to write fiction well enough that others will actually enjoy it. I further believe that knowing the rules of grammar and having been good at writing essays in high school English don't help a whole heckava lot when it comes to producing the kind of fiction that I want.
Because I have these beliefs, I tend to approach any feedback, whether a review or a crit, from the perspective of "What can I learn from this to make my writing better?"
The main thing that I got from your reviewer is that she didn't connect with your characters.
I took a look at your sample, and, after a few paragraphs, I could certainly see why a reader might feel that way. Your writing was quite active, and you immediately threw your character into a tense situation. Both those, imo, are good things.
On the other hand, I didn't feel like I was truly inside your character's head. Again, only read a little bit, but most writers whose books I buy are able to transport me immediately inside the POV character's head.
Why not approach the review as,"Hey, is this a legit point? If so, how do I get my readers to connect more with my characters?"
Maybe it'll make your writing that much better!
Thanks.
Brian
Micah wrote: "True, but a review (no matter the rating) with no explanation of why the rating was given is simply useless to everyone."This is an endless debate here, but people very legitimately use Goodreads as a site to catalogue their own books without having any intention of providing feedback to authors or other readers. A rating without a review, a review that means nothing to anyone else, a review written in a language not spoken by most users, etc., etc. - all of those things should be fine. The review may have meaning to the reviewer without being useful to anyone else. Amazon is a different story, with reviews serving a different purpose, but you can't necessarily extrapolate that purpose to Goodreads.
Unfortunately, even with private profiles, people don't have the option to hide their ratings/reviews completely. The result of that is that sometimes others may see a rating or comment that is not helpful to them.
For those that use the social features of Goodreads, a rating without a review may be helpful if it comes from someone they know. It may or may not help the general public, but just as a book may not work for everyone, a review may not either.
There is a lot of writing talent that would never get published via a traditional publishing company that can self publish and find a reading base. Unfortunately along with the talented writers there are the wanna-be-writers that don't have talent or aren't as developed as they need to be. (Getting a 2 star review does not make you a wanna-be, great writers get low ratings, too.)I love the fact that self publishing gives good writers a chance and wish that there were fewer "less than stellar" writers bringing doubt to the reading public about the professionalism of self publishing. As a new writer in the self publishing world, you just need to keep working on your craft and maintain your professionalism to show that you're one of the ones who should be writing.
Willow,Cool. Good luck!
Thinking back, I went to my first writer's group meeting about 3 years ago. One of the first pieces of advice I received was: get inside your character's head.
I've been working on doing just that since then and I still struggle with it!
If you're interested in some brutally honest feedback, I started a group here at Goodreads for authors to help each other get better at the craft. It's kind of small at the moment, but you're welcome to check it out to see if it would work for you: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
Thanks.
Brian
I guess I just don't like being a troll with my reviews. I try to be fair, helpful to both the reader & author, and I try to keep my reviews short so I don't give away the story. As for my messages to authors, I've never had negative replies and I've been able to help out with sending them spots that had typos. As for Dean Koontz, he seems like a really nice guy with a fantastic writing style, and he was very generous at one point a while back. So, sending him a polite message about a series he did (giving him feedback) I felt I owed him that.
Shari wrote: "One- and two-star ratings sting but they're inevitable. Every author gets them. I take a walk or buy a book I've been wanting if a review/rating gets me down. Don't stop writing though. You will o..."Truer words have never been spoken. I was actually reading some of the reviews for the Percy Jackson series and the Dresden Files, just to see how the reviews given to professional authors differs from my own amateurish writing.
I was actually surprised. Some of the stuff people said was harsh. I mean, my one-star review talked about cliche's and how my fourth-wall breaking sucked, but some of the ones on their books were downright mean. I saw a number for Percy Jackson that spoke of how Rick was ripping off the Harry Potter series, even though the books are completely different from each other. And the Dresden Files got even harsher reviews.
In the end, that is just the name of the game. By putting yourself out there, you're pretty much opening the door for people to tell you how much they hate your book just as much as inviting people to praise your book. What you need to do is A) accept that not everyone is going to love your writing and B) read those 1-stars and see if the review is being objective in their critique, or just telling you how bad the story was because it wasn't something they liked.
Steven wrote: "I guess I just don't like being a troll with my reviews. I try to be fair, helpful to both the reader & author, and I try to keep my reviews short so I don't give away the story. As for my messages..."all the private messages I have received from reviewers have been constructive and welcomed.
As a new indy author I too got a two on my first book. The reviewer was right on - but it still stung. I couldn't write for the rest of the day. But then I found this board. Yes, the review hurt but I'm using it to improve my writing and yes all your comments and support helps.
I love reading other peoples reviews as they often say more about the reviewer than what is actually being reviewed. Even if the review has one or two stars, if it has a constructive review, with reasoned out justification for their opinion and number of stars, it shows the reviewer has done their best to review the story from their perspective. And as every writer comes to understand, reviews are subjective, but at the same time a good level of humility and objectivity is helpful so an author can take on board what is being said. That way a review can either be politely ignored, or have immense value to improve an authors writing, or simply let them know what they have written is good.
As has been said, reviews are entirely subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt. There are two exceptions to this rule. First, if the reviews are all noticing the same thing in the author's writing, such as a lack of decent dialogue, problems with the narrative, unbelievable situations, or the dreaded deus ex machina, then this should be kept in mind by the author as problems to fix. One person saying it is an opinion; ten people syaing the same thing...you tell me. The second is getting personal. Someone mentioned Anne Rice, and recently Kathleen Hale. And these are writers, not critics! This is something that cannot be avoided and is best ignored. Once it gets personal, then that critic has already lost any objectivity that they might have had in the first place. Sadly, this will happen to the best of us, and the only thing to do is not to respond unless you know who it is and it's downright libelous. Even then, you may not win a lawsuit if it comes to that.
As for receiving critiques, I've had my share of good and bad. While I haven't had that many reviews for my novels--geez, is that why I'm not famous yet?--I have had a few, and the majority have been good and constructive. However, I've had some people comment negatively but constructively, and I use that criticism, much as I hate hearing it, to improve any way that I can. And if I happen to get a real stinker of a critique along the way, then I don't let it ruin my day. Keep writing!
Willow wrote: "I know that we are supposed to take bad reviews in stride and not respond to them. I intend to follow that advice. But, this is my debut novel, and my first review. It was rated 2.0. Ouch!As an i..."
Don't worry—keep writing—it takes time for the "Ouch" to not hurt as much—it’s not personal, it’s business. You can't please everyone, books are intimate experiences for readers because of the immersion involved (unfortunately, some get pretty mad if they feel they wasted their time and money on a book.) The great thing about readers, they’re passionate about books, so if they like what they read, the word of mouth gets around better than taking out an ad. Being an indie author is tough—you have to have the whole caboodle as nigh perfect as you can get it for it to stand up alone with the hundreds of thousands of books out there (editing, design, cover.) Finding the right reader is tricky. I've had readers love my books and then some downright hate them—their opinions are based on their personal expectations that they bring with them the moment they open the book. As an indie author, I've had to work harder to produce a good book, and being in the literary fiction niche, my books are not likely to appeal to a wide audience. It takes a good deal of practice, patience, and persistence to do what we do—if it’s truly your passion to write with the goal to publish, do it. Don’t let two stars stop you.
Willow,The writing should come separate from the validation. If you enjoy writing, then keep writing. If you write for the validation, you're on a roller coaster. Some people will praise you, some will damn you, some will ignore you.
The only opinions I pay attention to are those from my beta-readers. After publication I enjoy getting reviewed, but the content of the reviews is for readers, not to prop up my self-esteem.
For my debut novel, Tiger Pieces, I received a 1 star review over at Amazon. It was tough reading it and I made peace with it. I also used it as an opportunity to write a blog post. Please check it out here - http://wecoble.wordpress.com/2014/11/...
Keep writing...
I have been having a dilemma with a review this week. I gave the book 3 stars but if it had been proofread better. It had some speed bumps in it but if these were taken care of and it was updated or something it could have been easily a 4 or 5 star for me. I reviewed it on Goodreads but not sure whether I should review it at any of the other places I review? The author is from over seas and I think he may need a translator to help fix some of the issues.
Steven wrote: "I have been having a dilemma with a review this week. I gave the book 3 stars but if it had been proofread better. It had some speed bumps in it but if these were taken care of and it was updated o..."If you feel that the book is a 4 or 5 star, I would think that you could rate it as such and forewarn the reader about the language issues you encountered. To me it's like meeting a speaker whose first language is not English and s/he makes mistakes. As long as I can understand where that person is coming from, then I give them the benefit of the doubt.
Jesse wrote: "The second is getting personal. Someone mentioned Anne Rice, and recently Kathleen Hale. And these are writers, not critics! ..."Jesse, can you please explain this part because I'm confused. Anne Rice was specifically brought up by me because someone up thread said traditionally published authors, like Anne Rice aren't that concerned about bad reviews. Anne Rice has tons of publicly documented instances of that not being true. I realize she is a writer, that was the point. I'm not being funny, just unsure if something else was meant that I'm missing.
Sometimes I wish these sites would let us do the half a star thing but I guess that's just getting silly. I would go with what you suggest but part of me thinks in a way people are counting on my review to be honest and giving the rating of a 3 may push the author to fix his boo boos and then his title will really start selling good. I have a friend that's an author and he had to get a translator for his books, and some people may think that using an online translator would work ok but that doesn't translate the writing into a native tongue. I know this isn't cheap for a new author to do. Hopefully the author can find someone on here to help him out a bit.
Gideon wrote: "Maybe I'm a whacko but I put an e-mail address in the back of my book and invited critique. I have had some great feedback that will be incorporated into a 2nd edition. But I'm still not sure h..."
Well said, Steven, on many accounts through this stream...!
I love detailed reviews of my own and other books. It is so rewarding to find that someone else GOT what I was trying to say/describe/emote/share. It is temporarily challenging to read a damning review. I think if someone wants to give me a star, or five, with no comment, that is their right and it helps me in some way. It may help other readers. The law of averaging is what I use as a consumer of products, including the written word. If 200 people give it a 4-star on average, I figure I will find it interesting on some level. If 200 give it a 1-star on average, I rarely go there.
Self published or not, anyone can be a great writer.
Thanks Patrick. I tell ya reviewing really is a lot harder to do than most people think. Especially, if the reviewer is trying to do an honest job with it. I think it's funny but this whole thing was set up by Willow to help her out with a troubling review, and it seems like she got a lot of great advise from everyone in here. So Willow keep at it and make your mark :o)
Steven wrote: "I have been having a dilemma with a review this week. I gave the book 3 stars but if it had been proofread better. It had some speed bumps in it but if these were taken care of and it was updated o..."My honest opinion? I'd go with the 3* rating, and explain in your review why it would have been a 4* otherwise, but wasn't. Readers interested in the book can make up their mind. It's far less destructive to authors if their readers get into their books knowing to expect idioms-related mistakes, rather than if they find themselves facing that "nasty surprise", and then think "well, that was crap, where was the editor? I'm never reading anything by that author again!"
I get that writing in a different language than your own is difficult. (My mother tongue is French, yet I also endeavour to write in English, so trust me, when I say "I get it", I know what I'm talking about.) However, I also think that if you do that, then you have to avcknowledge where you're setting foot. Get a native speaker to help you, study the language extensively in order to improve... whatever. The way I see it, cutting some slack to such authors is kind of an insult to all the others who're in the same boat and have been trying to improve. I know it'd make me feel like what I'm doing is pointless: "Why bust my ass at learning English, if Joe Schmuck over there can get 5* reviews with a novel full of grammar and spelling mistakes? Why am I even bothering? Let's self-publish as is!"
Obviously, you don't have to be an ass and pummel down the author (which I'm sure you won't do anyway, since you've expressed your conundrum about this). But writing is difficult business, and if authors decide to try their hand at a different language, well, they also have to face the consequences...
Wow Yzabel, you put that extremely well, and I gave it the 3 stars that you mentioned but I only reviewed it on Goodreads with my explanation in my review so far. I'm just trying to decide if I should post this review on the other sites I review at or do you think that's over kill?
Depends if you're doing it systematically, or not. (I know I don't always review everywhere—mostly because I already do it on GR, Booklikes and my own blog, and then I get lazy and/or forget to post on Amazon, B&N, etc.)If this is something you always do, then I'd do it as well, for the sake of honesty, stating exactly the same reasons. Maybe you can round your rating, to match those other sites'? (A 3 on GR, in this case, might actually be a 4 on Amazon, since their 3 is "it's OK" and not "I liked it".)
Also, as a sidenote: I think I've already mentioned it (in this thread or elsewhere, can't remember), but most of my Amazon reviews that "helped people shop for this book" were 1-2 stars. My 4-5 stars reviews don't seem to attract readers as much as those, even though they're just as detailed (no "this book rocked! <3" without any other explanation). This is part of my reasons for not thinking "negative" (detailed) reviews as novel-sinkers, on the contrary. :)
Yzabel wrote: "Also, as a sidenote: I think I've already mentioned it (in this thread or elsewhere, can't remember), but most of my Amazon reviews that "helped people shop for this book" were 1-2 stars. My 4-5 stars reviews don't seem to attract readers as much as those, even though they're just as detailed (no "this book rocked! <3" without any other explanation). This is part of my reasons for not thinking "negative" (detailed) reviews as novel-sinkers, on the contrary. :)"Does Amazon tell you that people bought the book? I don't review on Amazon, so I'm not sure what feedback reviewers get. Shoppers can see how many have found a review "helpful," but the helpful could be helping people decide not to buy a book.
Sarah, I think the reviews work both ways. Some readers may look at the reviews and say "Oh, that critic is being too harsh, I'll give it a shot" while other readers may say "Hey, they must be right!" In the end, it's the readers who make up (or should make up) their own minds as to what to do.
Paganalexandria, sorry about the misdirect on Anne Rice. My wires got a bit crossed. (I blame that on writing all day). Please disregard that comment.
Jesse wrote: "Sarah, I think the reviews work both ways. Some readers may look at the reviews and say "Oh, that critic is being too harsh, I'll give it a shot" while other readers may say "Hey, they must be righ..."Yes, reviews can be useful either way. I was just wondering if Yzabel got other information beyond the "helpful" feedback, because she was saying her negative reviews tended to be considered more helpful, and maybe didn't hurt sales. I would think we don't know whether they help or hurt a particular book from that statistic alone.
Agreed with you, Sarah. The biggest problem with rating anything is the sheer subjectivity of it all. Even the professional raters are subject to their own whims and biases at times.As for Ysabel gleaning any usefulinfo on whether poor reviews helped or hurt sales, yes, there's no way to know. The only proof is whether the profits earned from that novel/novella/whatever go up. If so, then it means the sales are there.
I will admit to using "bad" reviews to generate interest. My wife's first book contained a lot of violence. Granted, the blurb stated this. However, since the story involved werewolves and vampires, and the fact that the author is female, several readers mistook it for a "YA Paranormal Romance"-type of book.As a result, she received a few negative, 1- and 2-star reviews, mainly due to the violence. (The main character is kidnapped by an obsessed stalker, and her husband is infected with lycanthropy; go figure) So, when I advertise the book, I quote the reviewer who "put this book down after the first violent scene. I couldn't read anymore!"
Quite a selling point, in my opinion...
Daniel wrote: "Although this is not exactly on-topic, I have a policy in regards to giving reviews. If I consider a book of low-enough quality to give it a 1- or 2-star review, instead I contact the author and te..."Wise move, Daniel. The rules are a little different for authors reviewing other authors. They shouldn't be, but are. If you honestly love a book, say so. If you don't, I think it is a kindness (and professional courtesy) to say so privately. I've seen too many authors suffer retaliation for honest, but poor, reviews.
Daniel wrote: "I will admit to using "bad" reviews to generate interest. My wife's first book contained a lot of violence. Granted, the blurb stated this. However, since the story involved werewolves and vampires..."What happened when you used that quote? Can you measure the reaction?
Groovy wrote: "CD wrote: "As a reviewer it’s tough leaving anything less than a 3 star review; but then what’s the purpose of a rating system if only good reviews will be left? As someone else mentioned reviews a..."Reviews should be written for readers, but you're right in saying that we authors can learn from them. Through our readers' reviews, we find our strengths and weaknesses. Granted, sometimes the complaints can't be addressed (ie. too much sex, too little sex) but those referring to characterizations, grammar, and plot should be seriously considered. Can you fix those problems in the current book? No, but you can improve the next one.
On a humorous note, one of my one star reviews complained about the amount of sex and bad language in one of my books (There really wasn't that much of either) I had record sales the following day! I often wonder if those readers were disappointed!
Daniel wrote: "I will admit to using "bad" reviews to generate interest. My wife's first book contained a lot of violence. Granted, the blurb stated this. However, since the story involved werewolves and vampires..."Daniel your example is the exact way I use "bad reviews" to sway me to read something or not. I read a lot of romance. Well there are tons of readers who HATE any type of cheating, secret babies, or pregnancies. I on the other hand love stories with those elements. So if one of those elements inspired some passionate rant, but not many complaints about the actual writing, then it's my type of read.
It's best to not cry over spilled milk, take it from someone who knows. You have to realize that not everyone is going to enjoy your book and even more so as I'm sure most may have already said but that's only one review and it's the first. Sort of serves as a hey, the worst is out of the way if you want to look at it that way but again it's only one review. I'm sure others will enjoy it more then the other person and even if other bad reviews come along, so what? Not everyone bases whether or not they want to read a book based off reviews and don't take offense about a bad review because it's more fro other readers then anything.
Jacqueline wrote: "Groovy wrote: "CD wrote: "As a reviewer it’s tough leaving anything less than a 3 star review; but then what’s the purpose of a rating system if only good reviews will be left? As someone else ment..."I'm a reader - not a writer - but I judge a book by the sample chapters. If I don't know by then if it's my sort of book that's my mistake, not the author's - I wouldn't give a bad review.
If it was a book on this site where I could PM the author I would if it helps.
Or would most of you hate it?
Zara-jo wrote: "Or would most of you hate it?"If you read the first few chapters of my book, and you write a review with: "I read the first few chapters of the book and it sucked so bad I couldn't go on", I would appreciate the fact that you invested your time and effort to give your opinion.
If you read (part of) my book and provide me with feedback, I would be grateful for the opportunity to get criticism from a reader.
As an author, I don't hate anything readers do, even if it's something I wouldn't enjoy personally. Unlike many misguided self-publishing authors, I don't consider my books, my 'babies'. I helped deliver two babies, I know the difference between a baby and a book.
Zara-jo wrote: "If it was a book on this site where I could PM the author I would if it helps.Or would most of you hate it? "
I wouldn't hate it, but I'm not sure I would appreciate it either. If I write shite, I want people to be upfront about it; I don't want them to give me the preferential treatment.
It may seem weird, but I consider this as building long-term credibility. Other readers will see the negative ratings/reviews as well as the positive ones, and in retrospect, I think it can only help in making one's work seem genuine—especially for indie/self-published authors.
Or maybe I'm just an oddball. I don't know.
I've been to several writing conferences where hopeful authors submit their first page only. A panel of editors/authors/professionals then read the page aloud and everyone on the panel chimes in with a "would you read on?" and "why?"They're good panels, and reveal a lot about the industry, professional expectations, and good writing. And it's fair. If a customer picks the finished book up in a bookstore and reads the first page, will they be hooked enough to buy it?
For professional publishing, that's the biggest criteria. Not the only one, but a big one. (I suppose there might be some literary work whose value shines through despite a poor start, but I'm really reaching here.)
Independent / self-published doesn't have to have the same values. We've had people here talking about hobbies and personal satisfaction. But if the goals are financial -- earning a living, etc. -- then it makes sense to judge things the way the pro industry does. The SPA world has room for more than that, but most reviewers will judge and review by the "standard" criteria.
If you want to thicken your skin to one stars reviews that are based on things that have very little to do with the quality of your book, try publishing on Google Play. Half the rating are one star and the other half 5 stars. People are annoyed (and rightly so) because to download your book for free, they have to enter their credit card details, so your book is punished as a consequence. Anyway, there are some things you can't control. Also, some reviewers don't realise how much their review impacts our lives and others do realise and weald it over you. It's all part of the business. Those one stars really only hurt when you only have one review.
Unfortunately, I don't know how much impact this had. Sales remained about the same. But, I noticed she did not receive anymore negative reviews regarding the violence in the book.
Zara-jo wrote: "If it was a book on this site where I could PM the author I would if it helps.Or would most of you hate it? "
Writers are usually advised not to enter into conversations with readers about ratings, but I have always had good feedback and, after all, readers are one half of the equation. Most readers are pretty fair. The ones who are not probably have a whole bag of reasons for spite unconnected with the book, or they might just hate it. Either way, it's part of being a writer.
If I'm reading rather than writing I do exactly the same as you Zara-jo, and read the samples. If they don't engage me, I don't continue and since I've not read it, don't leave a review.
I can't imagine someone's career being destroyed because of some bad reviews.But we have to consider them. Taking in all observations is necessary if one's going to be a pro about it and not just a hobbyist.
Our books aren't perfect. We have to be brave enough to ask, "Do they have a point?" But that shouldn't determine our level of dedication.
Get to work on the next one. You'll be amazed how easily you'll forget this review.
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