Karen Chance Fans discussion
This topic is about
Shatter the Earth
The Cassie Books
>
Shatter the Earth (Cassandra Palmer #10)
Mod
From FB.
First two chapters of Shatter the Earth, the tenth Cassie Palmer, are now up! Still looking at a December pub date, probably around Christmas. More when I know it. :-D http://www.karenchance.com/books_ste_...
Mod
Cameo, you were right. I could hardly believe that Elena killed twenty-four of Vlad's soldiers, but she sure isn't dead. Also, she sure isn't just a simple peasant girl.
Now, I'm wondering if Aeslinn's Svarestri troops were attempting to CAPTURE or to RESCUE Elena. Is Aeslinn working alone to bring back the old gods, or is he working with Jonathon, Rasputin, and the rest of the Dark Circle cabal?!?
Karen is planning a really wonderful Christmas present for her fans. I am so pleased and excited for Shatter the Earth.
The best twist (for me) would be if... well, if Elena is part of the whole dark mages/Svarestri/gods alliance. Because, before reading these two chapters, it had never even occurred to me that Elena might be a bad guy. Oh, I was pretty sure that she was more than just a peasant girl, for sure, but unlike with Artemis (who I still think will turn out to be a villain, if not the final hidden-in-plain-sight boss to be the defeated after they defeat the final god), I never thought that Elena might turn out to be a bad guy after all. What irked me a little was the fact that Mircea refused to kill Drac for centuries because Drac knew the date of Elena's death, and yet, the way Cassie puts it, they discovered the date pretty easily via historical information and the Pythian power. After all those centuries of keeping him alive, turning him into a vampire (cause I think Mircea turned him so that he wouldn't die a natural death before he revealed the date), and not to mention Mircea's mental powers that, by all means, should have helped him get that date. I mean, Drac was human, Cassie is a demigoddess, and Mircea was still able to "read" her thoughts quite often. It sort of renders Mircea's obsession with keeping him alive useless. I mean, how many people suffered and died because Mircea kept Drac alive?
It would be fun to watch Cassie and Mircea try to save Elena, only for it to turn out that not only did she not need saving, she did not WANT to be saved. I guess an evil part of me wants Mircea to face a quite ironic outcome of his obsession.
I hope he finds a semblance of peace by the end of the series, instead of dying. But I am kind of starting to think that he may exit the series with a bang.
Nancy, I'm not sure if Elena was being captured or rescued by the Svarestri either. But, I have to admit, I was not surprised that Cassie and Mircea did not just "save" Elena on the spot (although a part of me wanted it to be that way because this reminds me too much of the Save Pritkin plot). I hope KC surprises me in this regard.
As for Aeslin, I think he is working with Johnathan and the others, and has been for several books now. That was why Jo was able to escape to Faerie and Johnathan set that trap for Cassie and Pritkin for her there, in Svarestri lands.
As for the Lover's Knot spell - remember how in Claimed by Shadow, Cassie doubled the geis by traveling back in time and meeting Mircea before the geis was placed on him?
I think a similar thing happened here.
Remember in Lover's Knot (the novella) Dory tells LC that he needed to make baby vamps love him so that they could share in his power. Also, Mircea made the witches (in Venice) love him so that he could use their magic and they in turn would get vampire powers. Which means Lover's Knot is not an exclusive two people spell, it can be cast to include multiple people.
In that desperate bid at the end of Brave the Tempest, Cassie had Pritkin cast Lover's Knot on her. Unless Pritkin removed the spell in the meantime, Cassie was still under the spell. And since spells don't always work normally on Cassie, probably due to her being a demigoddess, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Cassie accidentally transferred Lover's Knot on Mircea as well, especially since she is still not 100% over him (well, it wouldn't be human to just get over your ex just like that anyway), and those emotions were enough for the spell to piggy back on, since it uses incubus magic, just like the geis did.
And even Cassie herself says that Lover's Knot doesn't care if one is your ex, only that one has been your lover (Cleo and Anthony come to mind, again in Lover's Knot the novella).
It would be ridiculously fun if Mircea and Cassie and Pritkin were tied together and sharing powers in Lover's Knot, and I think that with that link, they would have access to demon, fey, human, godly, and vampire magic/powers all at once. Maybe they could defeat the gods that way?
Well, no one ever said Cassie's life was simple! I cannot wait for December!
In the possiblity where Elena is alive and a vilain. We know that Mircea is the Enforcer and plays a big role in the stabliteness of the alliance and he does not have clear ideas when it comes to Elena. I wondered if the Ancients Gods will not try to handle him from Elena or use Elena to reach Dori and by extension Mircea.Moreover‚ we know that Vlad knew the existence of Pythia since the time he was still alive. Now we see Fae are walking around in his kingdom and catching Elena who had apparently spoken with Vlad not long ago. I wonder if Vlad knows the existence of magical worlds and if he trade with them?
I push my theory further (maybe it's a bit crooked) :
Maybe Mircea already know Elena is still alive.
In the case where Vlad trades with Faerie and sends humans there. In 500 years of animosity between brothers, he could be ended by telling him that he sent his wife in Faerie.
Maybe he know she works for the bad guy. After all this is not the first thing he's hiding about his family.
Maybe Elena is a Fae. Do you remember when Fae make à party to claim Dorina as one of them cause they said her power is part Fae (Shadow's Bane?) . The goal may not be to save she from death as he said, but to prevent she from going to Faerie and not having a chance to chance side.
Mod
I have only one quibble, because the chaps present Cassie as a somewhat uninformed narrator, as she explained that Mircea kept Vlad alive in order to force information from him about where he had Elena put to death. Actually, Mircea told Dory that one death was wrong for Vlad. He decided, "Let him live and remember." Up to that point, Dory had thought Mircea kept Vlad alive out of misplaced loyalty to a family member. Now, she realized that her father was far more ruthless than she knew.
Otherwise, I think the concept of the Lover's Knot tie-in between Cassie, Pritkin, and Mircea is awesome! It ties in nicely with Cassie's semi-prediction that Mircea and Pritkin would work together to make history, part of hers.
Exciting times!
@Tatayoyo that's a very interesting theory! I think in the past, or at least, during the time of Vlad's reign, non-magical humans were a lot more intertwined with the magical community than in the modern day (I think it was the Circle that imposed the hide-from-normal-humans-law after their war with the Covens). So, there is a chance that Vlad knows more about Elena than Mircea, especially because Mircea was less exposed to the magical world than Vlad. Vlad was a kid when he was taken to see Berenice (the Byzantine Pythia), while Mircea only becomes aware of the magical world after he is cursed with vampirism.
With the different timelines on Faerie and Earth, it would be possible that Elena could have survived - and still be alive in Faerie, especially if she is Fey, part-Fey, or a magical human (they live longer). Francoise was kidnapped some time after these events (I don't remember the exact year), yet she was still a young woman when Cassie finds her in Faerie centuries later Earth-time (because centuries passed on earth while Francoise spent I think a decade or so in Faerie. We don't know that much about Francoise though, to be sure of this, because she could be part fey or demon).
I thought that Dorina being Fey was a bit of a red herring, and a means-to-an-end for Caedmon to claim Dory as part of his family. For that reason, and since Dory has a similar glow to the Irin, I thought there was a chance Elena had been Irin rather than fey, but with this new information, I think I am coming around to the idea.
Additionally, that might explain Caedmon's ridiculous interest in Dory, and his unambiguous desire to claim her into his family. I am developing a theory that Caedmon has his own agenda in all this (I mean, of course he has an agenda, the problem is that I can't figure out what it might be yet), but if he is also working with Aeslin and the others (or wants to be king of all Faerie in his own right, like Asshat implied), it could be that Caedmon ALSO knows something about Elena and Dory that Mircea (and us) don't know yet.
And maybe Drac did trade humans with the Svarestri, for firepower. He did need help to keep the throne, and I like your idea that the Svarestri would be trying to get to Mircea through Elena. They did have Jo on their side, who could have taken care of the time travel problem - perhaps this was where Jo was after she disappeared from the field in Ride the Storm but before she appeared on Svarestri lands in Brave the Tempest (again, mind blowing time travel, right?)
And I always wondered how Drac managed to join in with the Dark Alliance (it's really hard to keep naming all those that are working together to bring the gods back), but what if he had ALREADY been a part of it from before, while he'd been human even? And if we look at it from another angle, it makes even more sense that the gods, who exist in a realm without time, would have allies on Earth during every time period (like a theory I read in a book called An Experiment With Time, about time being an ocean rather than a river, and we're just fish swimming in it in a straight line). The Gods could basically pick and choose these "fish" and make them their allies. And if Jo went back to get Vlad to give Elena to the Svarestri, it would make a lot of sense as to what was happening in the first two chapters. Vlad, already familiar with the office of the Pythia, and hating Mircea, would have no problem believing Jo (or whoever went to him, if they did), and cooperating.
So maybe we will get to see Elena - as a villain in the present day - and then I guess Cassie and Mircea will have to go back again and into Faerie to get her so that she could not be used against him. Not to mention that this way, Cassie's conscience can be clear because this would definitely be tampering with the existing timeline (wherein Elena is, let's say, originally dead), so Cassie would be fixing things, rather than breaking them herself.
Otherwise, I don't think Mircea knew about Elena being possibly alive in Faerie. If he did, if he knew that she was in Faerie, could have possibly been in Faerie, I think he would have tried to track her down before this. Also, it would have totally helped his case when he was convincing Cassie to help him, because he would not be asking her to change the timeline, but saving Elena from Faerie instead.
Goddamit, KC is a genius. Did I mention that I cannot wait for the book?
Nancy wrote: "Yep, Scarlet. You're spot on in your thoughts about the first two chaps.
I have only one quibble, because the chaps present Cassie as a somewhat uninformed narrator, as she explained that Mircea k..."
Thank you Nancy!
And you're right, I forgot about what Mircea said about Drac. I guess it's been a while since I read Midnight's Daughter (but I've been focused more on Cassie recently, due to the releases).
And I also forgot about Cassie's semi-prophecy about them working together, but it would tie in nicely, and I know that KC is brilliant at foreshadowing things (but alas, I have not sat down to analyze the wording of it all).
Mod
First, congratulations to KC, for inciting such interest with only two chapters!
Second, hats off to such perceptive readers that analyze and articulate such great ideas. I think our word totals in just the short time since the chapters were published probably compare pretty well with KC's output in the two chapters. (I haven't really counted, fans, but it seems to me we've poured out much more commenting than usual before a projected release date.)
KC seems to have absolutely blossomed since she left the constraints of Penguin publishing, and that is wonderful for her and her fans. It makes me a little sad to see the storyline drawing to a close much faster than in the past, because I love these characters and their relationships. I know KC is going to bring her stories to a very interesting conclusion, but it baffles me how many of our questions and theories could be answered in the remaining books.
KC is amazing, and long may Cassie, Pritkin, Mircea, Dory, and all the other delicious characters frolic in our memories!
Amen to that Nancy! Theorizing about what may happen in the Cassie and Dory series has been my favorite hobby in the past (oh my god) 10 years! I can't believe I was 17 when I first met Cassie, and she is still 24, while I am way past that age mark. Hunt the Moon was not even out back then, and I (very stupidly) thought that the series ended with Curse the Dawn! Must have been the language barrier (English isn't my native tongue). KC is responsible for about 90% of my vocabulary and the general improvement of my English in the past 10 years (and I admit, it took me three months to read the first four books, while now I inhaled Brave the Tempest in a day). Considering that now I make a living as a freelance writer online, I feel like I should send KC a thank-you letter!
Mod
You could email her at KarenChance@hotmail.com
I'm sure she would appreciate the compliment. She lists her email on her website frequently, so I feel sure she encourages fan email.
The Gods could basically pick and choose these "fish" and make them their allies. And if Jo went back to get Vlad to give Elena to the Svarestri, it would make a lot of sense as to what was happening in the first two chapters. Vlad, already familiar with the office of the Pythia, and hating Mircea, would have no problem believing Jo (or whoever went to him, if they did), and cooperating. I was searching this part and i found it !
(Ride The Storm) About Vlad:
"“He didn’t even try to run when I caught up with him, in the barn of a friendly noble. He had been waiting for me"
“I had grown stronger over the years, and wealthier, with powerful friends,” he told me. “Vlad demanded money for a mercenary army, and a contingent of vampires to ensure that they overwhelmed his enemy’s forces. In return for helping him to regain his throne, he offered a trade.”
He was really aware about magical words and vampire at this time. He even knows his brother was a vampire. Who told him?
Mod
But yeah, it does make me wonder if Elena is part fey and/or irin... maybe a irin/fey/human mix? It would explain some things.
And yes! I would love for Elena to end up a villain! Somehow I just don't see her ending up in a happy family with Dory and Mircea. And we musn't forget, no matter what, she isn't the gentile woman Mircea made her out to be. I wonder if he knew about her badassness - or if she lied to him and pretended to be the normal docile woman of the age. But well, with Mircea being Mircea, it probably didn't surprise him all that much if he didn't know, considering the personality of his daughter LOL.
I firmly believe that Elena is alive and well. The question is if she knows how much time have gone by on earth, and did she find out about Mircea being vamp and does she believe her child to be alive? And if so, has she done anything in fairy to find her way back to her?
The inevitable meeting between Elena, Dory and Mircea is gonna be INTERESTING!
I'm not sure how I like the threesome Lover's knot combo in defeating the gods.. it does seem extremely likely and would make for an epic final battle, but I also feel it's a bit too easy. Like we've discussed before about Pritkin and Cassie getting all too powerful with the demonsex, this is the same issue, the MCs being too powerful is just not very interesting to read about.
But more interestingly; what the hell does Caedmon KNOW?! How much of Mirceas history does he know about, and for how long has he known and followed his doings? Oh, maybe Ceadmon is Elenas ex-boyfriend! That would explain why he has kept tabs on Mircea LOL. That would actually be hilarious, and when Dory finds out she'll be disgusted by her moms ex flirting with her daughter LOL.
But anyway, it's all connected somehow, and I'm very close to putting on a tinfoilhat and make a wall with strings connecting ALL THE THINGS in Cassieverse, just to get a semi grasp of it all. I have a very distinct feeling we are missing something very obvious - like always.
But it's GREAT seeing som much discussion going on, and more active members! Yay us!
Mod
When Dory asked him if she got over the slapping bit, his answer was something on the order of....."Not entirely."
Mod
Mod
Mircea the Bold seems to be completely out of character, forgetting to plan for contingencies. Dory said that he always had multiple strategies before he took any action, and even the usually oblivious Cassie noted that he was "off kilter".
That last sentence about Mircea as he stood on the riverbank and screamed his rage at the sky just doesn't comport with his character as it was shown throughout the Cassie and Dory books, as well as hiss own book, Masks.
I hope he gets his act together in Shatter the Earth, or the war may not go so well for the good guys.......
Mod
Mod
Going back to Tatayoyo's comment in message #5:
Another poster (CRS, maybe Karen or Kristin) theorized in another thread that Elena was possibly part-Fey, because she believed in dragons but denied that camels are real. She insisted to Mircea that her mother had seen a dragon. True to form, human-Mircea dismissed the argument with a nice round of sex.
I theorized a while back that Mircea may have been the part-Irin parent in Dory's bloodline rather than Elena, because Cassie described him in a moment of incandescent anger as having "alabaster skin that glowed".
If Elena is not part-Irin, then she could be part-Fey. Maybe Mircea did know that Elena was/is in Faery, but that is immaterial to his need for a Pythia. He still needed to time travel back to just before she was to be impaled. Whatever he knew, either that she was to be impaled by his brother or she was alive in Faery, her fate could be changed at just that moment.
Tatayoyo, this is a very interesting concept. If it ìs correct, Mircea is even more devious than anyone (but you) suspected. Now I'm wondering, too. Do you think Mircea might be part-Irin? Does he know he is part-Irin?
Maybe we'll find out more in Shatter the Earth. I hope so!!!
I'm not sure about Mircea being part-Irin, but the dragon tidbit definitely adds more to the idea that Elena might be fey (which I have to admit is brilliant on KC's part, because she convinced me 100% that Elena could have been ANYTHING but Fey/part Fey). Mircea being part-Irin would make him part-demon, because I think Pritkin said something about the Irin, and he has the same disdain for them as he has for all demons, maybe even more.
However, I think it was mentioned somewhere that the Irin were higher beings from an upper heaven, after Faerie. So, honestly, the Irin are a wonderful mystery that I cannot wait to be unfolded.
But, my point was, I don't think Mircea was more than human before he was turned, but then again, who knows?
Mod
It is so wonderful to be speculating about a new book, but back to the Irin for a minute. Dory said that another name for them is The Fallen. She didn't know if they came from an angelic realm, or if they were demons with really good PR.
The Irin nailed it for me, though, with his paraphrase from Dante's "Paradise Lost". Answering someone, he said "If I had wanted to rule in Heaven, I'd have stayed there."
Too bad he died.......maybe Karen can bring him back!!!!
Mod
We've never known the human or part-human woman who was Heidar's mother. Could it be Elena? We know he was at least a hundred years old (an adolescent fairy hybrid) at the present time.
Nope, that won't fly. Heidar's mother was a full human. That's why Heidar couldn't be Caedmon's heir.
It would really have been interesting, though. Imagine if Dory and Heidar were half-siblings!
Still, though, I wonder about Elena's timeline. Did she float between Earth and Faery when travel between was not so restricted as it is now? Was she a knowing agent sent to meet and seduce Mircea? Or was she a poor peasant girl lucky enough to work on the castle?
It's such a spoiler question that I know Karen would not answer it, but I sure would like to know. Maybe Shatter will give us some answers........
Tatayoyo, this is a very interesting concept. If it ìs correct, Mircea is even more devious than anyone (but you) suspected. Now I'm wondering, too. Do you think Mircea might be part-Irin? Does he know he is part-Irin?Coming a little late. I don't think so. If i remember there is somes part where vampire are describe with glowing skin (Cleo if i remember?) or my memory plays tricks on me.
We've never known the human or part-human woman who was Heidar's mother. Could it be Elena? We know he was at least a hundred years old (an adolescent fairy hybrid) at the present time.
I think she has a link with the royal family.
I am searching extracts where they are speaking about Royal Family and Elena (but I'm running out of time right now). As i saw since the first books, Karen is letting us have a lot of clues, i am sure there is one about it. But with the number of pages and the fact we did not know where the story will go, i think we have miss it.
Mod
Karen talked about "Easter eggs," the clues that some authors leave to hint at future plot developments. A few years ago, she said there is a major "Easter egg" that no one has picked up on, to her surprise.
You are quite correct. I'm sure we have missed quite a few. Besides that, we have to remember that Karen is the Queen of Misdirection!
Still, it is so much fun to talk about the books with perceptive readers, and I am delighted to see much more interest in an upcoming book than there has been in the past.
It is wonderful to know that we will see Shatter next month, instead of a couple of years away. I hope we enjoy the rest of the book as much as we have enjoyed the first two chapters. (We will!)
Nancy wrote: Karen talked about "Easter eggs," the clues that some authors leave to hint at future plot developments. A few years ago, she said there is a major "Easter egg" that no one has picked up on, to her surprise.
Ah because does she read Goodreads posts?
Mod
At one point, I think she did. I doubt she does now. I think it would be easy to get your feelings hurt by some of the things we say in our messages. She's only human, after all, and there used to be a looooong time between books.
I had a small exchange with KC when I bought the Pritkin package after the on-line author convo. ***Yikes! No, I did not write that! The selection included an ARC, strong roast coffee and a trivet saying "Death before Decaf,"***
I need to summarize this by explaining that KC is very kind in her inter-relating with fans. She usually posts a Q & A after a book comes out, with the interestìng non-spoiler questions she can answer.
Mod
Basically, Cassie looks a lot more like a goddess, and a lot less like clueless Cassie bumbling around other characters who out-maneuver and overshadow her.
It's been showing more and more in the books, but Cassie is now a young demi-gooddess sure of her power and her purpose, ready to take on her enemies and anyone who gets in her way.
I LOVE IT!!!
Mod
Great news!
I Come back with another theory.First: we all started from the fact that Elena gave by constraint her baby but maybe not.
Now we have serious doubt that Elena is Fey but as I remember Fey just consider human like slave and does not like vampire. Therefore has a certain aversion to vampires and to give Dorina could be natural.
Also if she was à Fey it's seems impossible that she was not aware about supernatural world then she would know who was Dorina without confirmation of village. Also we know that :
- Few time before‚ he is burieds alive and come back and send Horiatu to speak with she to explain that he needs to run away without explanation (i don't remember the book).
- Her baby is a dhampir then it's means the father is a vampire
Then it's seems impossible that she does not understood Mircea's condition.
For finish we think she came back to search her baby but are we sûre?
Correct me if I am wrong but from memory we have this information from Mircea‚ who had it from Vlad when he came back in Romania. But we already know that one part is false because she is not dead then why not the other part? .
I think we give too much credit to Elena she seems to me to be one key to the story and knowing Karen's regulars‚ I will not be surprised that she is not as nice as we think.
Mod
I totally agree with you that Elena is a potential villain. As you laid out the cĺues, it is certain that she realized after Mircea left that he had become a vampire.
We know that she calmly and coldly killed 24 soldiers. That's not a nice little peasant girl!
Shatter the Earth is going to be so awesome. Can hardly stand the wait until Jan. 20!
Mod
I mean, she's nothing like Mircea, so it wouldn't surprise me if she takes after her mother.
Mod
Just before she was captured, Elena had killed Drac's soldiers and was escaping into the woods. I guess she planned to remain on Earth, for unknown purposes. As many peopĺe have commented, she must have realized that Mircea was a vampire after Dory-the-damphire was born.
If she realized that Mircea was a vamp and if she still loved him and Dory, she might have intended to continue searching for Dory and hoping that Mircea would return to resume their marriage.....
I'm glad that we don't have to wait two years for Shatter. It's just a week or two now. How great is THAT???
Am I the only person that thinks that Elena is still human but has just borrowed Mircea’s strength from the Lover’s Knot spell? (Cassie was stronger, why wouldn’t Elena be?)The fey would know about Elena from the battle in Wales, when all the Pythias rocked up and Cassie used it to confirm she was the new Pythia rather than a rouge. So the Fey could use this knowledge to kidnap Elena for leverage in the future?
Just finished Siren’s Song and am very happy this is coming soon!
Mod
That would account for her speed, strength, and ferocity. To my way of thinking, though, Elena could still be part-fey or -Irin, even though she was temporarily incĺuded in the Lover's Knot spell.
She was escaping into the woods after killing Drac's guards, so it could be that she intended to stay on Earth, rather than run to Faery. Of course, she ran into the Svarestri cavalry there. Now, why would a large band of Svarestri cavalry be waiting for her, with a previously unknown portal available for a fast exit to Faery?
The reason you gave, Kerryanne, is very logical. It makes me wonder about the timeline. How long had Elena and Mircea's clandestine marriage been known to the supernatural world? Who was seeing so far into the future to know how important Mircea and his lovers would become? Artemis and Roger, perhaps. Maybe their spirits got bodies when Antonio took the paperweight to Faery, and they escaped to continue fighting the Dark Alliance.
Roger approved of Mircea for Cassie, mentioning "that vampire you were running around with in Paris". It was something like that, anyway. He had investigated Mircea, and had visited his estate while representing Antonio. (Roger was more socially acceptable than Fat Tony's usual thugs.)
I hope we will see more of Artemis and Roger in Shatter. It's about time we find out more of their story and motivations.......
I still haven't given up on my "Artemis will be the big bad final twist villain" pet theory. In Tempt the Stars, Rosier and Pritkin talk about Artemis being the Huntress, hunting demons to gain power for a purpose - this purpose presumably being to kick the gods out of Earth and Faerie. But that's the thing, anything Cassie just assumes about other people and characters is just plain wrong, especially when it comes to their motives. As a result, I'm still not convinced that Artemis isn't a "bad guy" in all this, with her own agenda. And I think that at some point, Roger and Artemis will appear in the present day, and yes, I think if they're released from the trap in Faerie, they could regain their bodies, and that might enable Artemis to come back into power, and you know, use the Vamp-Circle-Demon alliance as an army against her fellow gods, and after they win, Artemis remains on Earth/Faerie as the only goddess around, and this time, she may have enough power not just to survive, but to rule as well.
Mod
Mod
I still can't quite get a grasp of how I feel about Roger - I mean he's kind of adorable, but at the same time he seemed kind of flat, and that just doesn't add up with him being in love with a goddess. There's gotta be more to him than that...
And speaking of people who seem flat - what is up with the Jonathan character?? I mean, he's been a big baddy from the start, but he's still just kind of vague to me. And I have a feeling he's connected to Artemis and Roger somehow... He's blond, so he COULD be Cassie's evil twin. Just putting that out there.
Cameo wrote: "Scarlet I'm beginning to see your point about Artemis, and I agree, we definitely haven't seen the last of her and Roger. I still can't quite get a grasp of how I feel about Roger - I mean he's ki..."
Oh my God. Now this is actually blowing my mind a little, because DUUUH, dude is a necromancer. Also, we don't really know WHEN Roger himself was born.
Timeline wise, for Roger, he meets Cassie as a part of the Guild, and he seems quite into their philosophy of change the world, remain in the past. He seemed like a guy who did not see a reason why the current status quo was good for him. From what we learned later, Roger was a powerful necromancer who could not progress into the world with the current system of the Silver Circle in power because his magic was not the right type. We see traces of this when the mage at Cassie's court almost attacks a kid who was doing chicken tricks for the girls, even though Cassie made a deal with Jonas to end that kind of division of good vs bad magic power (like necromancy and fire-starting), and to end the concentration camps masked as special schools.
But Roger does not mention being in such a school, he mentions being sidelined because he did not have the right kind of magic, which implies that he was born before this school system was in place (where Jesse was held and Tami broke him and the other kids out, and where Augustine was almost brainwashed into thinking his own magic was bad).
So, when Artemis was Agnes' heir (and I think Agnes lived for about 80 years instead of the usual 200 odd years magical humans get, which kinda doesn't make sense? She was in Gertie's court after all, which would make her at least 120 years old, and also how is Rhea only 19? Okay, abandoning that train of thought now before my cognitive abilities give up on me and die).
Anyway, on November 5th 1605, Cassie traveled back in time and met Guild-Roger, and an Agnes whose heir was Myra (gonna call her Myra-Agnes). That whole disaster of a meeting ended with Agnes capturing Roger and taking him with her.
When Cassie meets Artemis, she says that they met in a prison cell where she was bringing him food and stuff. But, in RtS, Cassie meets Guild-Roger again, who was trapped in the Badlands by (probably) Myra-Agnes. They exit into a time when Artemis is the heir, who suggests a return-to-sender for both of them. This is the FIRST time that Artemis sees Cassie, but she shows signs of recognizing them.
Then, Cassie meets another Roger in HtM, let's call him future-dad-Roger, and Artemis on the actual night of Artemis' escape.
If your brains are turning into mush by reading this, trust me, my brain is soup at the moment. And I don't even want to think what must be happening inside KC's brain!
Point is, we don't know WHEN Roger was born and what would have been his natural timeline. I assumed that Myra-Agnes was hunting Guild-Roger because she was in charge of him, as in, he left from her present day to go the past, which fell under her jurisdiction (and not under Gertie or the other old woman who was her mentor, her name escapes me at the moment). If she left him in the Badlands as punishment, then how did Artemis know of him, when she wasn't Agnes' heir at the time, but Myra was?
But, there is no time in the Badlands, right? So it technically does not matter when Artemis met Roger, right?
We have Guild-Roger, future-dad-Roger, and Dad-Roger, and then we got Guild-Roger in the Badlands. But when was he born?
Now, let's look at Johnathan. Another necromancer, who probably knows of the Badlands. Maybe he was not born in the 12th century as Jonas assumed, and I'm gonna blame Cassie for not thinking of the possibility that maybe Johnathan is not that old - he is traveling through time via the Badlands. That is how he survives. Maybe he IS addicted to magic and can only survive on magic, not saying that Jonas' assumption about it is wrong, just that maybe he isn't really that old. He appears throughout history not because of his age, but because of his roundabout time travel abilities.
As such, he could be Roger's brother, he could be another family member, or he could be Cassie's evil twin who discovered what Mom was up to and decided to fight on the side of the gods. Or maybe he was a demi-god gone wrong getting twisted in the head working his own agenda.
My brain is definitely mush at this moment, but I think there's definitely a possibility that he's traveling through time via the Badlands, exiting for certain periods of time to steal magic (like with LC), or to wreak havoc (Zombie's Bite), or to find an old type of magic (Lover's Knot).
It still does not explain how he was able to parade around as Caedmon's relative, and I still don't understand if he had killed the man and taken his place via glamour, or if he REALLY is that person, working under Caedmon's nose for centuries (unless Caedmon is also in on it, another theory I haven't given up on).
Needless to say, January 30th cannot come soon enough!
PS. I know that Roger said that only Pythias can open the gate, but in RtS, Cassie had Billie pull them into the Badlands when she was running away from the acolytes and other Pythias, and I think there's definitely a possibility that a ghost can cross over from this side as well and take a person with them, even without the help of a Pythia.
Mod
And holy shit, my brain just got roasted reading that. It makes total sense that Jonathan has been hopping around time, making it look like he's a billion years old, maybe he's only around thirty, making him and uncle or older brother to Cassie.
I really hope Cassie start diving in to her Necromancy. Figuring out just how much she's actually capable of.
But yeah, I could totally see Jonathan being a family member of Cassies, though Roger given the blond hair.
Mod
I honestly don't know if Jonathon is Cassie's evil twin, but it doesn't seem likely. Surely Dad-Roger and Artemis would have been taking care of both of them as babies. If Jonathon was an earlier or later sibling, he would have had the same access to Apollo's power that Cassie has, and he would not need to be magic-addicted.
The Badlands theory is great, though. Love it!
I'm hoping that Jonathan's deadly bracelet leaving him for Cassie as a greater source of power is a good omen for their storyline.
Otherwise, I'm barely hanging on to my sanity until the 30th!
Mod
Just like my sister is great at math, and I'm not LOL.
Hence him being forced to get power elsewhere.
I just want to add to Cameo's comment that the power never actually belonged to Artemis in the first place. She infiltrated the court in order to get it. Presumably, she released it when she escaped with Roger because Agnes would have been able to track her. Cassie mentioned that Lizzie and Jo would need to give it up willingly, otherwise there was no way for Cassie to cut them off from the power. For Cassie, discovering that she was Artemis' daughter serves as her acceptance of the power itself. As soon as Agnes was dying, it came to Cassie because due to her heritage, there was no better candidate.
PS. I have to share this: Last night, I had a weird dream where I had to run away from some bad mafia people who had kidnapped me for some inexplicable reason. I escaped from them by "phasing" in and out of the Badlands xD
Mod
This isn't a speculation, just a hope. Since it looks that action is going to be in Faery, I hope we will see Aesubrand. Wonder if he is still supporting Cassie and the War Senate? After Claire-as-a-dragon ate his mother, Asshat may have a thirst for revenge instead of working with Uncle Caedmon and the rest of the invasion crew. I know he is no fan of young Aiden, who replaced him as Caedmon's heir to the Blarestri throne. Also, since he turned against his father Aeslinn and the attempt to restore the old gods, he could end up without any throne at all!!!
I wish we could pre-order to let Karen know how much we are anticipating Shatter the Earth.
Mod
You know what would be great? A great big board with a timeline of every single important event, person etc. to just get a freaking better overview of the Cassie/Dory-verse ^^
It's on my to-do list. *sigh*
And yeah, I've been regularly on amazon to find a pre-order, but alas to no avail. Maybe it's not a possibility with self-pubs? Goddammit January, could you just end already?!
LOL as a sidenote: how fun would it be, if KC reads all our discussions, and puts Æsubrands nickname Asshat in the next book?! I would die laughing.
Mod
I hope and expect it will be wonderful, that many faithful readers will love it, and, finally, word of mouth and tons of reviews will attract many lapsed fans and a horde of new reader-fans to these fascinating series.
Oh, yes, I hope Ms Chance gets the respect and admiration she deserves for her rich imagination and writing skills. That's a given with me, but I hope this new book translates into respect and lots of cash for the creator of the CASSIEVERSE!!!
Mod
Mod
I am happy to report that Shatter the Earth is now edited and proofread, with only formatting left to go. I will be working on that later today and, if I finish, it will be up tonight. If not, look for it within the next few days. I will make an announcement as soon as it is available. Thank you for your patience, and I think that you will enjoy this one!
Mod
I want to see Pritkin being unable to quell his incubus half. At the end of Siren's Song, Pritkin told his demon, "You're going to lose."
The reply? "We shall see."
How's that for a cliffhanger?!?!?!?
Mod
Reminds me of the conversation that Cassie had with Francoise regarding Francoise's guy (Chavez?), who did not want Francoise's help to get the incubus out of him because he did not want to give up everything that came with it - mainly sleeping with other women.
I hope StE is available to read this weekend..
Mod
And yeah Tasha, I'm feverishly refreshing my amazon page, hoping it will be up for purchase.
To win, or even to survive, Cassie and her allies, the powerful vampire senator Mircea Basarab and the formidable war mage John Pritkin, will have to pull off their greatest feat yet. And find a way to become more than the sum of their parts.