Tournament of Books discussion
2020 TOB General Topics
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2020 TOB Shortlist
Amy wrote: "Caroline wrote: "Oof, I don't know about this year. So far I count one flat-out masterpiece, two books I absolutely hated, two I didn't finish the first time I tried them (one I probably hated but ..."The ToB will always have my love for leading me to Stephen Florida and In the Distance......
Caroline wrote: "Oof, I don't know about this year. So far I count one flat-out masterpiece, two books I absolutely hated, two I didn't finish the first time I tried them (one I probably hated but didn't get far en..."I treat the entire longlist like my list and I never finish it all, maybe focus a bit on trying the shortlist but the longlist has some real gems. I don't want to forget Marcy Dermansky! And remember that Cantoras didn't even make the list.....
Caroline - yeah, I just polished off Say Say Say and A Girl Returned after the shortlist release and am so happy I did. Also added Cantoras and others (Drive Your Plow..) to my ‘but seriously TBD’ list after the disappointment expressed in their exclusion.
Amy wrote: "Caroline - yeah, I just polished off Say Say Say and A Girl Returned after the shortlist release and am so happy I did. Also added Cantoras and others (Drive Your Plow..) to my ‘but s..."Funny as I’m anxiously awaiting to get off the hold list for Drive Your Plow!
Caroline wrote: "Oof, I don't know about this year. So far I count one flat-out masterpiece, two books I absolutely hated, two I didn't finish the first time I tried them (one I probably hated but didn't get far en..."I wasn't thrilled about many of last year's shortlist books, but it was totally worth it when my favorite book came back as a zombie and took the rooster. I'd say give one or more a try in case one of those is a pleasant surprise. Maybe you can check the discussion threads for the rest of the shortlist books to see how they sound based on our comments?
So far I've only had one five-star read from the shortlist this year (Girl, Woman, Other), and I'm not expecting another with the last few books, but it's still fun to follow along and dive into each book through discussion.
Any idea when the bracket is coming? Looks like it was this week last year.
Kip wrote: "Any idea when the bracket is coming? Looks like it was this week last year."Amy just posted this question in the "Ask the ToB organizers" discussion, so we'll probably see the answer there first, when we get it. :)
Caroline wrote: "Oof, I don't know about this year. So far I count one flat-out masterpiece, two books I absolutely hated, two I didn't finish the first time I tried them (one I probably hated but didn't get far en..."Caroline, I'd love to know to what books you are referring. Please share.
I'd love some direction on what else to tackle on the shortlist. I haven't gotten to the following: Fleishman Is in Trouble, Mary Toft; or, The Rabbit Queen, Optic Nerve, Overthrow, Saudade, or Your House Will Pay. How would you rank these? Are they all worthy? Any insights are welcome.
Erin wrote: "I'd love some direction on what else to tackle on the shortlist. I haven't gotten to the following: Fleishman Is in Trouble, Mary Toft; or, The Rabbit Queen, [book:O..."Your House Will Pay seems to be widely acclaimed and has positive buzz among us Goodreads/ToB folks. It's the one I'm looking forward to next.
Saude is super short.
Overthrow has a lot of negative buzz here.
Fleishman is a quick read and interesting in some of the same ways as Trust Exercise is.
Mary Toft: haven't read yet but a lot of readers I respect like it.
Is anyone but me having a nervous breakdown over wanting to spend the next six weeks reading for the ToB AND rereading Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies before The Mirror and the Light comes out on March 10?!?!?!
Jan wrote: "Is anyone but me having a nervous breakdown over wanting to spend the next six weeks reading for the ToB AND rereading Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies before [book:..."Yes Jan, very much so. I still have about six or seven of the shortlist to go and I simply must reread Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies. It's a dilemma!!!!!!! :-)
I read Wolf Hall in December, so don't think I will reread but I am also tempted to read the TOB shortlist (and ideally a few from the longlist), bring up the bodies, a book my sister in law borrowed me and I shouldn't keep forever and two book club books and somehow my boss also expects me to show up for work every day. Too many books...
Erin wrote: "I'd love some direction on what else to tackle on the shortlist. I haven't gotten to the following: Fleishman Is in Trouble, Mary Toft; or, The Rabbit Queen, [book:O..."I suggest starting with Your House Will Pay. It was fast-paced and a solid story.
I didn't love Mary Toft, but many others did, so that could work too.
I'm 1/3 of the way into Overthrow and it's not grabbing me. If I weren't planning to be a completist this year I probably would have DNF'd it 50 pages in.
Optic Nerve was difficult to follow on audio, so if you read that one I suggest a print version.
I haven't read the other two yet.
Erin wrote: "I'd love some direction on what else to tackle on the shortlist. I haven't gotten to the following: Fleishman Is in Trouble, Mary Toft; or, The Rabbit Queen, [book:O..."Erin, of the ones I've read from this list, Your House Will Pay is easily the next read for you.
COULD OBAMA POSSIBLY HAVE READ MY NAME AND THOUGHTS WHEN I WROTE ON THE SECOND HALF OF LCA IN CAMP TOB?????Sorry, just got stupid fangirlish. I’m sure he just chose these because they’re well reviewed litfic, although...there are a couple from the longlist that I don’t think are as well known? Whatever, I’m going to pretend to myself that he read my thoughts. ;-)
Elizabeth wrote: "COULD OBAMA POSSIBLY HAVE READ MY NAME AND THOUGHTS WHEN I WROTE ON THE SECOND HALF OF LCA IN CAMP TOB?????Sorry, just got stupid fangirlish. I’m sure he just chose these because they’re well rev..."
haha I know, Elizabeth!
Lauren wrote: "I'm 1/3 of the way into Overthrow and it's not grabbing me. If I weren't planning to be a completist this year I probably would have DNF'd it 50 pages in.."I felt the same way starting out, but found it picked up in the second half. Still not a favorite of the tournament, but ended up more enjoyable than I expected!
Jan wrote: "Is anyone but me having a nervous breakdown over wanting to spend the next six weeks reading for the ToB AND rereading Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies before [book:..."Breathe Jan, Breathe! LOL
But yes, I hear you! I also want to re-read all of Atkinson's Brodie series to work up to Big Sky and I just re-read The Handmaid's Tale to prep for The Testaments. It is a balancing act! Pluse, as Irene points out those longlisted TOB books I want to read :D
Bretnie wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm 1/3 of the way into Overthrow and it's not grabbing me. If I weren't planning to be a completist this year I probably would have DNF'd it 50 pages in.."I felt the same way star..."
So glad to hear this Bretnie. After seeing all the bad reviews I was getting a bit apprehensive.
Erin wrote: "I'd love some direction on what else to tackle on the shortlist. I haven't gotten to the following: Fleishman Is in Trouble, Mary Toft; or, The Rabbit Queen, [book:O..."I know I'm answering this well after you've decided on a reading path, but Your House Will Pay was a quick and fascinating book and while Optic Nerve is a slow read, it is fairly short -- if you have an interest in the visual arts, you'll probably like it, but I can't see liking it without a love of representational painting.
Jan wrote: "Is anyone but me having a nervous breakdown over wanting to spend the next six weeks reading for the ToB AND rereading Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies before [book:..."Very much so Jan! Not sure how to manage an attempt to complete the TOB list and my desired rereads of Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies. Plus, American Dirt seems to be one I should read soon to avoid coming across spoilers.
I remember one year my husband calculated how many pages I needed to read each hour (assuming no sleep or other activities) to complete before the tourney. The figure seemed quite manageable except for the non sleeping part.
I've been checking the site for brackets but I JUST saw this in an e-mail from the Morning News:" Please note that we'll be off next week, and the newsletter will return on Jan. 28. See you then!"
So does this mean brackets around the 28th?!? That is a way aways. BUT I hope all of the staff at The Morning News are doing okay, everything is alright. I hope it's a GOOD break?
ToB Kindle alert!On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous for $1.99 today (Sun 1/19).
Beth wrote: "Jan wrote: "Is anyone but me having a nervous breakdown over wanting to spend the next six weeks reading for the ToB AND rereading Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies b..."Collin, Irene, Ruthiella, Beth, thanks for talking me off the ledge. It does to help to know lots of us are in this boat together, and I love hearing everyone's reading strategies.
Beth, I do love your DH's helpful approach, haha. I'm with you on American Dirt. I'm deep into scheming to see if my work schedule will allow a quick trip to Powell's this week to pick up a copy. :-)
My situation is a bit complicated because I've been on a backlist and nonToB reading jag since just before Christmas and am having a hard time putting a stop to it. On the bright side, I've finished a bunch of great memoirs (spoiler alert: Samantha Irby is sweet and sad and funny as hell and probably not for everyone) and finished and loved three books I came to because of the ToB community: Do Not Say We Have Nothing, Kintu and (by tomorrow) Hild. To all of you who were raving about them 3-5 years ago: thank you!
Jan wrote: "Beth wrote: "Jan wrote: "Is anyone but me having a nervous breakdown over wanting to spend the next six weeks reading for the ToB AND rereading Wolf Hall and [book:Bring Up the Bodie..."Not wanting to start anything here, but in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in American Dirt after going through some of the debate. I've seen a lot of frustration around supporting this book over others that are from more direct sources of the issue. Especially because she made a ton of money from it. Here's a nice version ;) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/bo...
I haven't decided if I'm officially not going to read it, but I'll just put it on the back-burner and think about getting it from the library later if I want to see what all the fuss is about.
I'm also feeling overwhelmed about trying to finish the shortlist over the next month, and THEN the Camp ToB books, and THEN also the rest of the super rooster books that I haven't read yet (like Wolf Hall - yikes!). Plus I'm in a few (IRL) book clubs that also dictate my reading schedule. At least we have an understanding place to vent about these things, because most people I know would have no idea what this feels like, haha.
Lauren wrote: "Not wanting to start anything here, but in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in American Dirt after going through some of the debate. I've seen a lot of frustration around supporting this book over others that are from more direct sources of the issue. Especially because she made a ton of money from it. Here's a nice version ;) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/bo... ..."Thanks for surfacing this, Lauren!! Important issues to consider.
Lauren wrote: "in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in American Dirt after going through some of the debate. ..."I was initially very excited about this one, but after reading a thoughtful and angry article about how it appropriates and stereo-types Mexican culture, I'm going to skip it.
Alison wrote: "Lauren wrote: "in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in American Dirt after going through some of the deb..."Yea and I just saw this morning that Oprah made it her next book club pick - very surprising!
Lauren wrote: "Alison wrote: "Lauren wrote: "in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in American Dirt after going through ..."There was huge buzz about this book early on, including positive comments from Sandra Cisneros and Julia Alvarez, and more recently there's been a significant backlash. I'm sure Oprah made her pick in the "early positive buzz" phase. Here's the LA Times' overview, published before Oprah's announcement: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment...
I would normally be wholly on the side of the offended, but in this case, maybe because I formed my attachment to the book early on, I'm feeling ambivalent. I still plan to read it, only with a sadder heart than I would have otherwise.
Jan wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Alison wrote: "Lauren wrote: "in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in American Dirt after..."Thanks for sharing this article. This is a really interesting debate and I have a lot of conflicting feelings about it, especially as a new writer navigating the stories I want to write. I'm friends with Natalia Sylvester (quoted through a post in the middle of this article) and her book Everyone Knows You Go Home is probably a good alternative to this one that would have less stereotype-feeding about Mexico. There's still some darkness though, which I find in a lot of the books I read from Latinx writers about the things that happened/are happening in Latin America. And as a Peruvian immigrant she has a closer background to these experiences, but she hasn't experienced crossing the border from Mexico, as a Mexican specifically. Plenty of things to consider here - I appreciate the various perspectives provided in this article. :)
Ed wrote: "ToB Kindle alert!On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous for $1.99 today (Sun 1/19)."
Aaargh - missed it. Thanks, Ed. Guess I should check this thread more often.
Here's an article by Rebecca Makkai about her writing about the AIDS crisis despite being a heterosexual woman who didn't experience it. It has parallels with the American Dirt controversy.https://lithub.com/how-to-write-acros...
Oh good, I was hoping this controversy was being discussed here. I’m grateful to the TOB for supporting more authentic voices on this subject, and introducing me to House of Broken Angels, all of Luiselli’s work, and so many wonderfully told immigrant stories from all over. I was planning to read Dirt, but I’m going to skip it in favor of some of the lesser known books being promoted by #ownvoices.
I hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful, immigration is an incredibly important, complicated topic that needs to be addressed quickly and with care, but is anyone else here like me in that when something becomes controversial it makes them want to read it even more? I was the high school kid that found out about the "Banned Books" list and then spent the next couple years reading through it. Or when I saw Dogma protesters outside of my local theater I bought a ticket to the Disney movie that was in theaters at the same time and then snuck into Dogma to see what all the fuss was about. Or when my Dad said I should wait to read Cujo until I was older I snuck it from the shelf at night when he was asleep, read about 20 pages and put it back, over and over until I finished it.
Alison wrote: "Here's an article by Rebecca Makkai about her writing about the AIDS crisis despite being a heterosexual woman who didn't experience it. It has parallels with the American Dirt controversy.https:..."
This is great. Thank you for posting
I got into a disagreement with a local journalist who also reviews for USA Today over American Dirt.All this comes full circle to the problem that POC are underrepresented in the publishing industry. In a world where interns are expected to move to NYC and do unpaid apprenticeship for a year or two before being admitted to the ranks of upwardly mobile decision makers, how will POC ever get a toe hold. When we have POC at every level of decision making, then these types of controversies will fall by the wayside. Writers should write what they want to write regardless of their experiences....that's why it's called fiction folks. Leave it to readers to sort out the good writing from the bad.
Guess this is off topic...oh well.
Dustin wrote: "I hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful, immigration is an incredibly important, complicated topic that needs to be addressed quickly and with care, but is anyone else here like me in that..."For me, it really depends on why a book is considered controversial. Conservative Xtians up in arms because they want to censor any idea that goes against their bigoted beliefs? Captain Underpants being "distasteful"? A Library Journal reviewer completely missing the point of Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho? I want to read these books because of the controversy.
But, when people from marginalized groups critique a book written by a straight, white cisgender author I take another look at the book. I usually will decide not to read the book because I don't want to give my time or money to something that is harmful. Not to say that I agree with all the controversies that have been popping up in the last few years. I do think YA Twitter has gone too far in some cases.
On a side note, I am a practicing Cradle Catholic. I love Dogma and saw it in the theatre. My faith and knowledge of my faith is strong enough to be able to watch the movie and enjoy it. Kevin Smith had a lot of good points in there with Chris Rock's 13th apostle who was written out because he was black and Salma Hayek's diatribe about how women have been historically treated.
Very interesting point Amanda. For me, there doesn't seem to need to be a specific type of controversy (although religious-based controversies do tend to catch my eye more than most). In this case, hearing the arguments for why American Dirt is controversial makes me want to read it in order to educate myself a bit more on why those specific passages are deemed in bad taste, or are considered stereotypical representation. It's an interesting dilemma for sure.
Oprah selected it for her book club so it's sure to be widely read. That endorsement alone pretty much disqualifies it from this group. Your dollars won't be missed.
Janet wrote: "Oprah selected it for her book club so it's sure to be widely read. That endorsement alone pretty much disqualifies it from this group. Your dollars won't be missed."Oprah also selected Colson Whitehead's The Underground Railroad, Tayari Jones's American Marriage, and Ta-Nehisi Coates's The Water Dancer. Her endorsement does not disqualify a book from the TOB.
True but those are "authentic voices" so presumably AOK.
Lauren wrote: "Jan wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Alison wrote: "Lauren wrote: "in case those of you with overwhelming TBRs right now could use an excuse to cross one off the list, you might be less interested in America..."You're welcome, and thanks for the tip on Everyone You Know Goes Home...added to my TBR. And yes, there seems to be a lot of darkness is some parts of LA (as there is also in our own country). :-(.
Sherri wrote: "I’m grateful to the TOB for supporting more authentic voices on this subject, and introducing me to House of Broken Angels, all of Luiselli’s work, and so many wonderfully told immigrant stories from all over.L..."Amen, Sherri!
Alison wrote: "Here's an article by Rebecca Makkai about her writing about the AIDS crisis despite being a heterosexual woman who didn't experience it. It has parallels with the American Dirt controversy:..."Wonderful article, Alison. Thanks for posting it.
Janet wrote: "I got into a disagreement with a local journalist who also reviews for USA Today over American Dirt.All this comes full circle to the problem that POC are underrepresented in the publishing industry..."
Bingo. I hope this whole mess leads to more serious efforts to remedy that underrepresentation, and also to more education on writing difference.
Alison wrote: "Here's an article by Rebecca Makkai about her writing about the AIDS crisis despite being a heterosexual woman who didn't experience it. It has parallels with the American Dirt controversy.https:..."
This is a great article - thanks for sharing! I plan to refer to it (and seek out others) as I navigate my writing predicaments.
Bretnie wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm 1/3 of the way into Overthrow and it's not grabbing me. If I weren't planning to be a completist this year I probably would have DNF'd it 50 pages in.."I felt the same way star..."
Now that I finished Overthrow, I kind of wish I hadn't told you to push on Lauren. The ending just didn't work for me and the hope I had midway now just feels like a letdown.
At least I'm enjoying Mary Toft!
just a quick note that Andrew told me our beloved TOB team at www.themorningnews.org is trying to get the bracket out by Friday! :)
Tournament of Books
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just think... 'the next one could be another Stephen Florida' :)
unfortunately, I feel like I keep finding my surprise gold reads in the play-in rounds... which means I've read it early in the line-up. I'm already pretty sure my chances of finishing Overthrow are slim.