Sci-Fi, fantasy and speculative Indie Authors Review discussion
Writing Technique
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Or not.
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Oddly, I would have thought dropping 'to be' to be more British, but not because I've seen it in British literature. Rather, because I've seen this in work emails from my counterparts in India and they typically favored(favoured) British spelling and grammar. One of my favorite phrases they used that sounded odd to my American ears was 'Kindly do the needful.'
So now I wonder, is it a tech-ism? It almost reads like shorthand I used to use in some reports.
Christina wrote: "Great topic!Oddly, I would have thought dropping 'to be' to be more British, but not because I've seen it in British literature. Rather, because I've seen this in work emails from my counterparts ..."
Afraid my two cents aren't nearly as interesting as either of yours - but I'm betting 'allow their memories gathered' was a typo, pure & simple. And I say that with full regard for the astoundingly creative Indian version of English.
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We have the audacity to call it Hamlet. ;)
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At least, that's my strong opinion on the subject.
If I saw 'till in a book I was reading I'd call it a typo. And to me 'til is proper only if used in dialogue or song lyrics. If language shifted, I failed to shift with it. In fact, I still don't like the made-up word, "proactive." To me it sounds pretentious.
"allow their memories gathered" was not a typo. It is phrasing used in another Frame (dimension) where they speak differently than we do here.
I don't think the missing "to be" is a ubiquitous Americanization...if it is an Americanization at all. Leaving it out in this case looks odd.Now...I watch a lot of UK TV and movies and do add a fair amount of phrases I find there into my writing, but I don't think of the "to be" as particularly or specifically British.
The one I heard on the radio recently that threw me was "...until they graduated High School."You what? Where's the "from?"
And that was a reporter on National Public Radio.
Grammar Girl agrees with me that the "from" is necessary: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/educ...
"Graduated high school". I've heard that pretty regularly, actually. Reminds me of a Canadian scientist I know who talks about students taking exams without using the phrase "taking exams." Now I'm blanking on what he says instead – but my point in bringing it up is to stress that English usage varies from region to region, as well as from era to era. I never get annoyed by changes in the language, even when I prefer a previous usage, because the fact that language is alive and ever-changing is - to me - a beautiful thing.
Sue wrote: "the fact that language is alive and ever-changing is - to me - a beautiful thing."Maybe, but what you're forgetting is YOU KIDS GET OFF MY YARD!!!
:)
Well...that and the fact that the phrase "John graduated High School" grammatically means that the High School itself was graduated by John.
Keeping in mind that people who do say "graduated high school" are doing similar mental double-takes whenever they hear "graduated from high school".
Maybe, but at least when they complain about it I can tell them [quoted and slightly altered from my link above]:"To graduate" is a verb, and it can be both transitive and intransitive. A transitive verb takes an object and an intransitive verb doesn’t. "John graduated from High School" is the the intransitive form of "to graduate" because the verb has no object.
When you say, "John graduated High School," you've turned "to graduate" into a transitive verb. By definition, the act of graduating is something a school does to a student, not something a student does to a school. Schools graduate students. If you say, “John graduated High School,” you're making John the subject and High School the object and saying that John did something to the High School, same as if he had damaged the High School, delighted the High School, or desecrated the High School--but he didn't graduate the college.
[end of altered quote]
I mean, sure, language changes. But sometimes you just have to say no. Otherwise, "alot" is a word, "irregardless" isn't an nonstandard word, "its" means "it is," "to" "two" and "too" are interchangeable, and "isn't it" is just short for "innit," innit? ];D
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Combination words are a pain in the butt. Right now, I have the word legroom in a story, and it looks wrong. Lookimg at it, my mind automatically wants to pronounce it as le-groom. But like bathroom and bedroom, this is correct. Which leads to... Why are dining room and living room separated into two words but bedroom and bathroom are not? And why do some words require a hyphen to combine?
Micah wrote: "I mean, sure, language changes. But sometimes you just have to say no. Otherwise, "alot" is a word, "irregardless" isn't an nonstandard word, "its" means "it is," "to" "two" and "too" are interchangeable, and "isn't it" is just short for "innit," innit?..."
I think one of the saddest of those is they're, their, and there used interchangeably. I think that people who do that should have there writing privileges taken away.
I think one of the saddest of those is they're, their, and there used interchangeably. I think that people who do that should have there writing privileges taken away.
J. A. wrote: "Ah those pesky homophones."Please, let's try not to get political here.
;P
Ken wrote: "I think that people who do that should have there writing privileges taken away."I see what you did their.
Christina wrote: "Why are dining room and living room separated into two words but bedroom and bathroom are not?"Short answer: Because it's the English language!
The reason English has become the universal language is that no one really knows all the rules (as if they exist), so everyone can do whatever the photon they want and get away with it.
That's my theory.
"Accept" or "except?" Who the f-- even knows? Who the f-- even cares! (But I'm not bitter.)
I hate to admit it, but I was in 7th grade before I learned that "Three Force" is not a fraction halfway between 1/2 and 1. Things made a little more sense after that.
We have the audacity to call it Hamlet. ;)Well done Christina, Jeeves would be proud.
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Another one that's been puzzling me, though, is the sudden spread (over the last few years and seemingly everywhere at once) of the word 'So' at the beginning of a sentence.
I know, right? Those sudden propagations fill me with awe. Suddenly and simultaneously, everyone is tagging on an "-ish" or sneering Really? with identical inflection. I assume most of these start with a common pop culture phenom like a TV show everybody (except me) watches, but it's enough to make you believe in the collective unconscious.P.S. Love the 'amlet bit. Are you using it in your writing? Somebody needs to.
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Guilty. So, okay, and well seem to be my go to words to start talking and it has transfered to my posts here and on Facebook as well.
The Shakespeare quote though, reminds me of the Vonnegut story, 2BR02B. While the title is supposed to be a clever phone number, it serves to remind me that there are folks in this world who think 'pls 2meet u' is a proper sentence.
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What I don't understand is (a) why the entire English-speaking world has not only noticed this too, but decided to imitate it, and (b) why this, in turn, reduces me to a crimson-faced lunatic shouting at the radio. Why is it so irritating?
Only you (and certain mental health professionals) can address point (b).
So let me get this straight...well, that is to say, OK, but...Look, apparently...has your head blown up yet?
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Okay, so, here's the thing: Well, it's like, you know... The thing is, is it is what it is.
Almost as bad as the conversation I once had with a coworker that consisted of only the words dude, seriously, and 'are you kidding me?'
What all these things are, is they aren't meant to convey meaning but to place a marker in the conversation (essentially saying "shut up I'm going to speak") while the speaker thinks about what to say. Can't remember the technical term. Musically, it's "vamp 'til ready.'
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Post in question was apparently written by a Brit, but comes with the knowledge that Buzzfeed isn't known for well edited posts: http://www.buzzfeed.com/danieldalton/...
Is this a new style we are clearly behind on? Or is this a rampant typo that sticks out to me now that Richard has brought it to our attention?
The whole world's a typo, and all I have is Wite-Out.
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Apparently, dropping to be is a regional quirk centered around the Pittsburgh, PA area. This clears up a lot for me. Western Pennsylvania has their own, rather... unique way of speaking.
On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia.
Christina wrote: "Apparently, dropping to be is a regional quirk centered around the Pittsburgh, PA area. This clears up a lot for me. Western Pennsylvania has their own, rather... unique way of speaking."That what yinz think?
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Funny, my friend who brought this up recently spells it yunz.
I kind of feel this Forest Gump-like need to list off the eighty billion ways to say the plural you: you guys, yous guys, y'all, youes, you lot, al'yas, yinz, youzall, yizz. Did I miss any?
I've been so busy with work I can't believe I missed this thread.I want to know what's up with everyone shortening words. People can't say pizza anymore. They have to say za. What is that?!
Try getting around anyone heading (or currently in) the medical or science professions. I don't think any of us know how to say a full length multisyllable word. If we get two syllables out of 3, we're "nerds", and if we do more than that, we're considered down right bonkers. "Hey, (), did you get that crit back from the lab for the bun test? Or was it left on the 'ter for () to look at 'cause it looked weird?"
Yeah, you get the hint on this one. They were talking about a bacteria test, not a blood test. And, I was one of the ones who was supposed to be evaluating the results!
Does anybody ever say "antidisestablishmentarianism" any more? And if you ever found yourself at Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu, would you rename it?
I do know someone who says "antidisestablishmentarianism" whenever it fits naturally in a conversation. In addition, if I ever found myself at Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu, Siri would have some explaining to do.
Disestablishment is still a very important idea. It's about getting 23 unelected bishops out of the higher house of UK parliament, and separating church and state the way most civilized countries do. The 'arianism' part may have been added by lexicographers so they'd have something to talk about at parties.
Ken wrote: "Does anybody ever say "antidisestablishmentarianism" any more?..."That was the first word I ever spoke, actually. I was 14 years old.
Richard 2060 wrote: "Disestablishment is still a very important idea. It's about getting 23 unelected bishops out of the higher house of UK parliament, and separating church and state the way most civilized countries d..."
Yes, but in order to have a longer word you have to be against that.
Yes, but in order to have a longer word you have to be against that.
Not at the top of my priorities, I'm afraid.
Love it! I should see if the dot org is available.
I had a brainfart relating to 'graduated high school,' which is fairly common phrasing in the good old north of america I think. The analogy is with the phrase 'passed Toronto.' Somewhere in the mists of time, it might have been better to say 'passed by Toronto,' but the extra word adds nothing, so it disappeared. A literal minded person (pedant) might think that 'passed Toronto' suggested that one had excreted the city in some fashion (painfully, no doubt), but a normal person would not have a problem with the phrase.
I'm wondering about people's thoughts on the word petulant in relation to it meaning difficult. I'm just not sure its quite right for my context and would love some input.
It was also inspired by this: I've recently been reading Nica of Los Angeles, and came across this sentence: 'However, WSC refuse to allow their memories gathered.' For a moment the red 'typo!' light flashed on - surely it should read, '...allow their memories to be gathered' - but then I remembered The Source Group where there were threads called 'Books Needing Screened' and 'Books Needing Reviewed'...
I'm guessing this is the American usage (in England we always write the 'to be') but I've probably read as many American authors as British ones, so how come I've never seen this before? Is it new? Is it just in writing, or speech too? Which way do Canadians swing on this? And most important of all, what in the world do you Americans call one of Shakespeare's best known plays - 'Or not'?