Challenge: Sprawl by William Gibson

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

This is the thread to discuss Sprawl trilogy by William Gibson. It consists of:
Neuromancer - the winner of both Hugo and Nebula for best novel
Count Zero nominee of both Hugo and Nebula for best novel.
Mona Lisa Overdrive - nominee of both Hugo and Nebula for best novel.

The challenge initially was planned for the fourth quarter, but bearing in mind that today is Oct 21th, I decided to extend its end to Jan 31th, 2020

[Anthony]

Count Zero was also a double Hugo & Nebula nominee.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Anthony wrote: "Count Zero was also a double Hugo & Nebula nominee."

Yes, that's why I've wrote "nominees" :)
I'll edit to make it more clear, thanks

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I don't really have anything to read next week, so I may plunge in more

[Allan]

lol, I will file that under things I will never say: "I don't have anything to read next week"

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

LOL back!

Let me rephrase. I have a zillion books to read, but no buddy reads or anything starting next week, so I will try to read a little of sprawl and see if I like it better than the last time I read it 20 (?) years ago.

[Gabi]

I'm curious to read the impressions here. I have a very bad memory, so usually I can't even discuss books one month after I've read them. Yet with Neuromancer I had already forgotten what I had read when I closed the book. ^^'

[Anthony]

I read Neuromancer around the time that it came out and I don’t remember much either except that I didn’t really get it. In the last year I’ve read a couple of Gibson’s short stories and was left similarly underwhelmed by them. I recognize what a huge influence he’s been on not only SF literature but also on how we think about virtual reality and the internet; and yet I find his writing to be obtuse and remote and Too Cool for School. And yet I’m curious to revisit Neuromancer, and possibly continue on with the trilogy.

[Allan]

This will be a re-read for me, which is very rare for me, but I'm doing it mainly because of what Anthony said. I read Neuromancer years ago and didn't quite get the whole thing about his writing, and don't remember anything of it. However, I later read Virtual Light and I liked that because I didn't find it as obtuse. I also read Burning Chrome (short stories) earlier this year and it wasn't too bad. Nothing of his has really blown me away though.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

yeah, but life is too short to read things that don't blow you away . . . I am slightly changing my goal in this group. I am no longer trying to read all the books. I am TRYING every book. Giving it a good try. 10% or more. But if I am not having fun, I am out!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Anthony wrote: "I read Neuromancer ... I find his writing to be obtuse and remote and Too Cool for School. "

My thoughts when I've read it as well. The book is held in high regard with my programmers friends, so I'll reread it for sure

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I finished the first volume, here is my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[James]

I've read Neuromancer twice and it's one of my favorite books, every sentence is beautiful. Tried Count Zero and didn't get past the first chapter. Been meaning to try it again, though.

[Anthony]

I decided I’m going to go ahead and pick up Neuromancer again, since it was so very many years ago that I first read it. I’ll get to it at some point this month. Then we will see if I will continue on with Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I'm at 21% and thought Neuromancer was finally getting going, then not so much. Just tell us what the guy wants!

I think maybe my problem is, I don't like "stuck" protagonists. What is a stuck protagonist, you ask? Well, it's a character that, not matter what he does, cannot better his situation. (Think "I Love Lucy." That show aggravates me no end, because no matter how hard she tries, nothing ever works out.)

This guy seems to be a classic stuck protagonist, worked upon, and struggling against, outside forces to no avail. It pains me to read about such a character.

Does anybody know if he ever prevails?

Also, is the first book a direct continuation of this one? I have a copy of it and might try it.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "This guy seems to be a classic stuck protagonist, worked upon, and struggling against, outside forces to no avail."

For me it was more a trope when the protagonist learns what's happening together with readers, often done with an amnesia or something like. This allows for smooth infodumping.

The text is very dense, and like The Diamond Age: Or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer it improves upon rereading I guess. As to "Does anybody know if he ever prevails?" I'd say yes.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Ok, well, I will proceed later in the month, then. Thanks! I was thinking to skip straight to the second, and then . . . didn;t

[James]

I'm not sure I'd say the protagonist of Neuromancer prevails, at the end (view spoiler)[Case uses his earnings to replace his liver so drugs work again, and settles back into self destruction (hide spoiler)]. Which means he most likely won't show up again and the trilogy is only a loosely connected shared universe.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

James wrote: "I'm not sure I'd say the protagonist of Neuromancer prevails, at the end"

He, like the ancient hero does his great dead and what what afterwards is the reward, even if it leads to self-destruction. And Zionists later ion the book are great :)

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Instead of continuing directly with the second volume, I decided to 'step back' and read Gibson's short fiction. His Burning Chrome is categorized as Sprawl #0 here on GR and consists of shorter works from the early 80s. My book has an intro by Robert Silverberg, where he used a great phrase to describe how Gibson writes: "baroque prose", what I much less precisely called a dense prose.

The first story Johnny Mnemonic that opens the collection is filled with ideas (yes, some naive and obsolete). There is also Molly there

[Allan]

I reread Burning Chrome earlier in the year and re-read the three Sprawl stories before starting Neuromancer, a rare re-read for me, but I honestly don't remember it. I am enjoying it this time around though!

[James]

I read Burning Chrome, loved The Hinterlands, (view spoiler)[felt like a cross between Stephen King's "The Jaunt" and Contact (hide spoiler)], and I enjoyed Belonging Kind and Dogfight.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I'm now only two stories in and both I liked. Quite possible it is just like infatuation that lowers one's rationality but right now Gibson is fast approaching my best SF authors group

[Allan]

I finished Neuromancer and really enjoyed it. First time around, I must have been indifferent, because I didn't remember it. Others have said the same, so maybe it's not a story that sticks with you. After a couple more reads, I've now started on Count Zero. I can see some similarities but less sure of where it's going. Not a continuation story but the same setting.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I pan to read Count Zero this month. first few pages look promising

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I have Count Zer0 because it was on sale last month. I may try, but I have too many books going now

[Allan]

Finished Count Zero yesterday. Not a connected story but a thread running through. Similar plot to Neuromancer but with a more distinct villain, it would probably make a better movie. I enjoyed it as much but I did get a bit confused with all the characters towards the end; Gibson brought new people in all the way through. Solid read.

[Allan]

How are people coming along with this challenge? I'm looking to finish it in December. Mona Lisa Overdrive is queued up, will start in a few days.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Allan wrote: "How are people coming along with this challenge? I'm looking to finish it in December. Mona Lisa Overdrive is queued up, will start in a few days."

I've started Count Zero today.

Also note that because the challenge was setup with a delay, I set end date to Jan 31, 2020. However the next challenge (Bujold saga) will start on Jan 1st, so there'll be an overlap

[Allan]

I finished Mona Lisa Overdrive this morning to complete this challenge, and I know Z is right behind me. My feeling is that the books got progressively better; although Neuromancer was highly innovative and more or less created the genre, I found it not very cohesive and a little difficult to understand what was going on. Count Zero was less confusing & thus more clear, but the plot was almost a repeat of Neuromancer (not necessarily the outcome). Mona Lisa flowed even better and was not difficult at all to follow. The good guys and bad guys aren't always clear, and (SPOILER) it even had what I felt was kind of a fairy tale ending. A good wrap-up to the series. Very happy I took on the challenge as I've wanted to put it all together for years.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I finished it as well. Gonna write in detail tater, but while I liked the loose ties coming together, there was fewer new concepts - things I like to see in my SF

[Atlanta]

I haven’t read it yet but it’s definitely near the top of my list

[Allan]

Gotta hand it to you, Z. You started it when I was at 50% and finished in the same day! I also saw that you have 190 books marked as read this year vs. a challenge of 120. I know you've got novellas in there but that is outstanding!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Allan wrote: "Gotta hand it to you, Z. You started it when I was at 50% and finished in the same day! I also saw that you have 190 books marked as read this year vs. a challenge of 120. I know you've got novella..."

*blushes* actually such a great figure was achieved largely because I actively use audiobooks, often x1.5 to x2 speed because I have several hours daily were I cannot read but can listen without distractions

Back to the book: the problems with short-term memory of Slick Henry reminded me of another SF, where a negative protagonist (one of several in the book), middle manager of some corp used former drug addict as his driver, so the boy could not say where they were because that drug destroyed links between short and long term memories. Who recalls something similar? I initially thought it was in The Windup Girl but now I doubt it

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Scott wrote: "I'm about 100 pages into Neuromancer and feeling lost. .."

Yes, it is hard to follow. As for the scene in Ch. 7, because of his implants, Riviera is able to create confusing illusions that look like zombies. It is intentionally made unclear whether the creature bursting from Riviera’s jacket is real or a hologram to show what this new cyberpunk world has to offer: merging of VR and reality. Only after Terzibashjian runs straight through the monster, its nature (illusion) is revealed

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

One of my problems with that book is, I don't LIKE that guy. But whatever . . . good luck with it.