The Catcher in the Rye
question
Not a waste of time?
deleted member
Nov 09, 2014 02:44PM
I finish what I start. If I don't, I lose sleep. But I will make the exception for Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye." Quite possibly the most dull and despicable protagonist in fiction who still manages to remain uninteresting. Page after page follows an orgy of teenage angst, annoyance at kindness, and self-pity. A further reminder to me that evil is boring.
But, again, I hate not finishing what I start. Can anyone who has read the book give me some verification that it isn't a waste of time?
But, again, I hate not finishing what I start. Can anyone who has read the book give me some verification that it isn't a waste of time?
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Why are people always bashed for liking this novel? I don't think Holden is the greatest literary character by any means, but I still very much enjoyed it.
It's a lot more than just a whining kid.
It's a lot more than just a whining kid.
Yes! The fact that you hate Holden is all the more reason to keep going, questioning what is annoying you about him and why Salinger made the choices to write him as he did. Its not as if he set out to write an empathetic character and screwed up. Holden's not unlikable for the sake of being unlikable, he's just unlikable because he's a confused kid looking for a connection to anybody. Just look at how often in the book he asks people to "hey, listen..." and nobody really does. Imagine how different the book would be without Holden as the narrator, guarding his true meaning to words and covering up with his fake jaded persona. Nothing he says can be trusted at face value, he even says he's the greatest liar you ever saw.
So Holden is constantly whining about adults being 'phonies' and 'bastards', but why? The time setting of the book, right during the consumerism boom after WWII should give more hints, along with things like his hatred of people crying at movie deaths but still dropping atomic bombs and sending kids off to war. Depending on how far you've gotten, there's more hints on his own personal mistrust of adults.
(Depending on how you feel about authorial context to a text, its interesting to know JD Salinger saw way more action in WWII than any of the other great writers of the time who came back and wrote action books. He had an early draft of it on him at Normandy on D-Day.)
The lack of action is just one more way Holden is trying to hold back on moving forward in any way, like Peter Pan but way more gloomy. Between his adoration of the museum displays frozen in time, his refusal to think of Jane Gallagher as a teenager and not the young girl he knew, and his constant thoughts on his late brother and a schoolmates suicide (while wearing Holden's clothes)- stopping time shows up a lot.
On the flipside, there's the occasional longing Holden shows to not be young anymore- mostly failing at buying drinks and getting physical with ladies. Every time he tries, he's denied or makes a fool of himself which might also explain his 'phony' bashing: the rejection he gets from most of the world will hurt a bit less if they were all bastards anyways.
Sorry to ramble...I could go on forever. I hated this book in high school but rereading it recently changed my mind.
So Holden is constantly whining about adults being 'phonies' and 'bastards', but why? The time setting of the book, right during the consumerism boom after WWII should give more hints, along with things like his hatred of people crying at movie deaths but still dropping atomic bombs and sending kids off to war. Depending on how far you've gotten, there's more hints on his own personal mistrust of adults.
(Depending on how you feel about authorial context to a text, its interesting to know JD Salinger saw way more action in WWII than any of the other great writers of the time who came back and wrote action books. He had an early draft of it on him at Normandy on D-Day.)
The lack of action is just one more way Holden is trying to hold back on moving forward in any way, like Peter Pan but way more gloomy. Between his adoration of the museum displays frozen in time, his refusal to think of Jane Gallagher as a teenager and not the young girl he knew, and his constant thoughts on his late brother and a schoolmates suicide (while wearing Holden's clothes)- stopping time shows up a lot.
On the flipside, there's the occasional longing Holden shows to not be young anymore- mostly failing at buying drinks and getting physical with ladies. Every time he tries, he's denied or makes a fool of himself which might also explain his 'phony' bashing: the rejection he gets from most of the world will hurt a bit less if they were all bastards anyways.
Sorry to ramble...I could go on forever. I hated this book in high school but rereading it recently changed my mind.
Blake wrote: "I finish what I start. If I don't, I lose sleep. But I will make the exception for Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye." Quite possibly the most dull and despicable protagonist in fiction who still mana..."
My review should help: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
My review should help: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Surprisingly not a waste of time, considering the absence of any plot and only following a disturbed teenager in his weird journey. I made an exception in giving this book a relatively high rating. There is something attractive in Salinger's writing that keeps you going on reading. I can't put my hands exactly on it yet I can feel it. Protagonists shouldn't always be likable or perfect. Also, Holden's character is quite timeless. He can be described in our time as an "Emo" minus the black makeup and all that stuff. I mean his depression and tendency to commit suicide pretty much explain his deep issues. I empathized with Holden even though I didn't really like him.
Duane:
I don't think it's fair this book is something that only appeals to 'whining millenials'. Actually, I've never really understood the assertion that it's better if you read it as a teenager. The first time I read it at age 16 I thought it was okay, nothing to write home about. After re-reading it this summer (age 21) I got a lot more out of it as a result of being that much more mature and better educated. In fact, I enjoyed it more this time for the exact reason that Holden isn't a character youre supposed to idolise as 'oh so hip', he's a total plonker! Thats kind of what makes him so endearing.
Although Catcher in the Rye is incredibly poignant at times it's also supposed to be funny, and you can't really laugh at Holden's teenage daftness until you've outgrown your own teenage daftness. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you don't like the book then fine, but it's pretty short sighted to write off everyone who does as angsty thirteen year olds.
I don't think it's fair this book is something that only appeals to 'whining millenials'. Actually, I've never really understood the assertion that it's better if you read it as a teenager. The first time I read it at age 16 I thought it was okay, nothing to write home about. After re-reading it this summer (age 21) I got a lot more out of it as a result of being that much more mature and better educated. In fact, I enjoyed it more this time for the exact reason that Holden isn't a character youre supposed to idolise as 'oh so hip', he's a total plonker! Thats kind of what makes him so endearing.
Although Catcher in the Rye is incredibly poignant at times it's also supposed to be funny, and you can't really laugh at Holden's teenage daftness until you've outgrown your own teenage daftness. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you don't like the book then fine, but it's pretty short sighted to write off everyone who does as angsty thirteen year olds.
I'm fine with differing opinions, but I'm honestly baffled by someone calling the protagonist evil. Never in the book is he that.
It took awhile for me to get into but I ended up loving it and the main character.
It took awhile for me to get into but I ended up loving it and the main character.
Finish it. Come back years later and reread it. You might be surprised.
deleted member
Dec 09, 2014 06:23PM
0 votes
To me, the end of this book makes up for any faults it may have.
So many novels have extremely annoying protagonists that have discouraged avid readers from liking them.
Myra Beckinridge
Wuthering Heights
The Great Gatsby
Mrs. Dalloway
and yet each has withstood the test of time and achieved classic status.
TCITR was always a so-so for me. I read it at Holden's age but never related to it. I neither hated nor loved it.
But in my 30s I tried to read Myra B. and found the character so loathesome in the first 20 pages I put the book down. 25 years later I read it front to back and enjoyed it much more and would recommend it as a good read,(despite my dislike of Gore Vidal, another stuck up elitist, but then again what would that have anything to do with anything)
Perhaps it's time to get back to Catcher and Mrs. Dalloway. WH was an immediate like and I have read it several times.
Our tastes change. I don't need to point that out. Most of the posters on these message threads have acknowledged that. What I do urge is for each of us who years ago have hated one or another ¨classic¨ to make the effort to revisit. And we might learn how much we have changed.
After all every cell in our bodies is replaced after 7 years.
Myra Beckinridge
Wuthering Heights
The Great Gatsby
Mrs. Dalloway
and yet each has withstood the test of time and achieved classic status.
TCITR was always a so-so for me. I read it at Holden's age but never related to it. I neither hated nor loved it.
But in my 30s I tried to read Myra B. and found the character so loathesome in the first 20 pages I put the book down. 25 years later I read it front to back and enjoyed it much more and would recommend it as a good read,(despite my dislike of Gore Vidal, another stuck up elitist, but then again what would that have anything to do with anything)
Perhaps it's time to get back to Catcher and Mrs. Dalloway. WH was an immediate like and I have read it several times.
Our tastes change. I don't need to point that out. Most of the posters on these message threads have acknowledged that. What I do urge is for each of us who years ago have hated one or another ¨classic¨ to make the effort to revisit. And we might learn how much we have changed.
After all every cell in our bodies is replaced after 7 years.
Blake wrote: "I finish what I start. If I don't, I lose sleep. But I will make the exception for Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye." Quite possibly the most dull and despicable protagonist in fiction who still manages to remain uninteresting. Page after page follows an orgy of teenage angst, annoyance at kindness, and self-pity. A further reminder to me that evil is boring.
But, again, I hate not finishing what I start. Can anyone who has read the book give me some verification that it isn't a waste of time?"
Hey, you've almost answered your own question!
Just look at how your mini-review manages to eloquently tear up both Salinger and his twit protagonist. Finish the book and you'll be able to tear both of them a new Obama!!
Which could be very productive, as there are hordes and legions of whining Millenials who think Holden - as someone pointed out, the proto-Emo - is just SO Hip, with all of his ersatz angst. If you finish the book, you'll be so mad that you might be able to write a review that disassembles their "Hero" enough to make some of THEM go home and slit their wrists (oh, dear God, PLEASE...)
But, again, I hate not finishing what I start. Can anyone who has read the book give me some verification that it isn't a waste of time?"
Hey, you've almost answered your own question!
Just look at how your mini-review manages to eloquently tear up both Salinger and his twit protagonist. Finish the book and you'll be able to tear both of them a new Obama!!
Which could be very productive, as there are hordes and legions of whining Millenials who think Holden - as someone pointed out, the proto-Emo - is just SO Hip, with all of his ersatz angst. If you finish the book, you'll be so mad that you might be able to write a review that disassembles their "Hero" enough to make some of THEM go home and slit their wrists (oh, dear God, PLEASE...)
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