Series: Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson ("Red Mars")

[Karin]

Excellent! I am just at the half way point of this book so far. I like it better than Red Mars so far, but, like Amanda, I do shift from Good vs not for me at times.

[Karin]

Jemppu wrote: "Gabi wrote: "...Vocabulary-question (again): does "Thisness" exist or is it made up? ..."

Valid word.

Jump along, Patrick! There are others still reading Red Mars too ^^"

Thanks--I had no idea it was a real word. I did a check on its etymology, and apparently it came as a translation from a philosophical term in Latin from some medieval philosoph--I am guessing it is the Latin from that time and not the Latin of the ancients.

[Gabi]

@Jemppu: Thanks for the link. I seem to use the wrong dictionary.

@Amanda and Karin: I can see how this is irritating. I hope in the end there is more award than frustration for you.

[Anthony]

Can we discuss in the BR recruitment thread a possible date for Blue Mars? I’d love to get to it before the end of the year. I’ve been holding space for it...

[Jemppu]

Eager for it - sooner the better. Ready to drop everything for it when ever.

[Jemppu]

Apparently this is a more agreeable forum for the Blue BR discussion :D Did you have a specific date in mind, Anthony?

[Anna]

Jemppu, I didn't mean to kick you out of the BR thread. Just that since I won't be adding it to the list, it makes more sense *to me* to have the date discussion here, so that people popping in will see it. It's the same with all series threads. It's the best way to make sure the information is connected to the series, having it in the series thread. That's why the links on the series list are called "Info & Discussion" instead of just discussion like the single book BRs :) I assume that the first post in all series threads will have all the info about what and when people are reading.

It's my own fault for not reading this thread earlier, but had I realized you were already planning on reading the entire series, I wouldn't have added Green Mars on the BR list either, it'd have gone straight on the series list. That's why I informed everyone about it, that the status has changed from individual BR to series BR :)

[Jemppu]

No problem at all, Anna ^^ It's all the same where the discussion takes place, as long as a date gets settled (and it's good there's some mention of it now on the BR thread too, so, those who keep watch of that know to peek in here if interested).

[Gabi]

I will read "Blue Mars" ASAP, yet I would like to wait if some more folks who are reading "Green Mars" at the moment would join.

[Anthony]

I have more space in my reading calendar in December than in November, does that work for you?

[Dawn F]

Both November and December works for me!

[DivaDiane]

My November is extremely full and since I have these on audio, it’s difficult to squeeze them in, so I’d prefer December. Mid- to late December if I can have my druthers. I’m still at the very beginning of Green Mars and now on vacation to the in-laws during which I typically get zero time to listen.

[Gabi]

I'm okay with November or December.

[Sarah]

I'm ok with December.

[Mareike]

Gabi wrote: "I've started (end of part 1) and I'm just happy to hold a novel in my hand where there actually is (natural) science in the fiction. As with the first book I can go on and on reading about the land..."

I agree with these points on Part 1. (view spoiler)[I liked the coming of age aspect and how KSR explored some of the more difficult aspects of it. Especially for someone growing up in a society where death is more or less non-existent.

I'm trying not to let some of the things I didn't like as much about Book 1 affect me too much, but even so, some of Nirgal's later perspectives on Jackie - especially his possessiveness - made me feel a tad uneasy (the same goes for some of Coyotes comments about her/the kids more generally - yikes). With Nirgal, I'm putting it down to him basically being a teenager. So I'm hoping he'll grow out of it. (And I'm not quite comfortable with how close that gets to saying "boys will be boys".) (hide spoiler)]

I also really enjoy the prose and how he weaves different worldviews into the story. (view spoiler)[Hiroko's talk with Nirgal before his second trip was beautifully done. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Some passages of Part 2 were pretty chilling.

(view spoiler)[They were to suppose the release of a plague vector which would kill everyone in the world who had not had the gerontological treatment. What would the pros and cons of such an action be?

Fucking yikes. (Excuse my French.)
And Fort's justifications really don't make it better.

Also this:

"Three-quarters of a child," Fort repeated with a grin, and everyone laughed again. "I like that." The daughter stopped. "It would finally establish a monetary value for a human life, on the open market. ..."

Yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes. (hide spoiler)]

Part 3
(view spoiler)[
I think this was my favorite section so far. I'm glad we're getting to see more of Ann in this book.

But nothing lasts, not even stone, not even despair.

As I said in my update, this was my favorite bit in the entire section. It's beautiful and a little sad and hopeful all in one.

Ann's struggle to forget the past and her connecting back to her anger was beautifully done. I hope we do get more on her activity with the Reds. (hide spoiler)]

[Anthony]

@Mareike yes that Ann section!!! I found it to be so moving. Glad it affected you as well.

[Oleksandr]

Gabi wrote: "I will read "Blue Mars" ASAP, yet I would like to wait if some more folks who are reading "Green Mars" at the moment would join."

I plan to join for Blue Mars, but I'm yet to re-read Green, so I hope closer to the year's end

[Mareike]

Anthony wrote: "@Mareike yes that Ann section!!! I found it to be so moving. Glad it affected you as well."

(view spoiler)[That moment where she's waiting for the landslide was intense. And then watching her come back from that brink.

Across this and the first book, I think I like it the most when KSR manages to combine the larger political developments with these very personal moments. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Mareike wrote: "Part 3 (view spoiler)"

Yes! The scenery in this and at the (view spoiler)[space elevator / cable fall site (hide spoiler)] before it were so vivid! Scenes I was imagining would look truly grand on screen.

[Anthony]

I’ve been thinking about whether or not I’d want to see a screen adaptation of these novels, and while I think it could be epic, one of the greatest strengths for me is the shifting of POVs, and the focus on the inner lives of the various POV characters, so I wonder at whether that could be well achieved in an adaptation.

[Oleksandr]

Anthony wrote: "I’ve been thinking about whether or not I’d want to see a screen adaptation of these novels"

I think they would lose a lot, from details on terraforming to POVs as you mentioned to the fact that now 'inside voice' is not widely used in movies, which makes some actions harder to grasp

[Mareike]

I think if it was adapted at all, a TV show might work better than a film/series of films.
But I agree that it would ve a challenge to "translate" the depiction and explorations of the characters inner lives into a visual medium.
It would make for an ambitious project, though.

[Jemppu]

TV series would indeed be the more desirable option. Perhaps with a changing narration between the characters for each episode to bring out their individual POVs and true regard of others?

[Anthony]

It has been in development hell for a number of years. As far as I know it’s currently in limbo. Maybe I can do some more active sniffing around...

[Jemppu]

Wow. I wasn't aware that there is / has been actual plans for TV serial, but so it does seem. Quite exciting.

[Anthony]

Did we settle on timing for Blue Mars, by the way?

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "Did we settle on timing for Blue Mars, by the way?"

We haven't. I've been waiting for those who might have prior engagements to weight in, while each day wanting to just jump in ^^'

[Mareike]

Anthony wrote: "It has been in development hell for a number of years. As far as I know it’s currently in limbo. Maybe I can do some more active sniffing around..."

It would be very interesting to hear if there are any more concrete plans!

[Gabi]

Anthony wrote: "Did we settle on timing for Blue Mars, by the way?"

Give a date. I guess in the meanwhile most have finished "Green Mars". Those interested in a group read for "Blue Mars" will certainly give a shout here once the date is set.

[Anthony]

Would it be too tough for people to read it between Xmas and New Year’s?

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "Would it be too tough for people to read it between Xmas and New Year’s?"

I love this idea. Something to fill the days I know will be quite uneventful.

[Sarah]

Anthony wrote: "Would it be too tough for people to read it between Xmas and New Year’s?"

I could make it work.

[DivaDiane]

I would have a really tough time with between Christmas and New Years. I could try to read it just before, so that I can still discuss with you all.

[Gabi]

Sorry, I haven't seen the talk about the date.

Let's do the last December week then. I'm not sure I'll have internet access, but I will have time to read.

I added the date to the initial post.

[Jemppu]

^^👍

[Mareike]

After finishing Part 6 last night I (view spoiler)[appreciate the glimpses at all the different groups in the demi-monde and underworld. Though sometimes it would be nice to see them "from the inside" rather than through an outside perspective. (hide spoiler)]

If you've seen my updates, you know that I'm frustrated with some aspects of this book, but I would also like to note that I'm really enjoying KSR's prose and (view spoiler)[his commitment to exploring difficult political developments in a way that explores the difficult and tangled connections between the political and the personal. (hide spoiler)]

Some other notes:
Part 4 (view spoiler)[This could also be titled "The Political Education of Sax Russell". (hide spoiler)].

Part 5 (view spoiler)[The things that are done to Sax make my skin crawl. I can't decide if I want to check whether KSR based this on science or if he's extrapolating by a lot. (hide spoiler)]

Part 6 (view spoiler)[I'm still not quite sure what to make of Nirgal and his "powers"... And I'm a bit wary about the way he keeps being positioned as special and destined for greatness. It feels a little out of place compared to the realistic grounding of the rest of the book.
(And his perception of Jackie is....not quite my cup of tea.)

I really liked the bit about Medusa's canyon and hope we learn more about it. I would read a novella about its creation. (hide spoiler)]

[Karin]

I finished and posted a review, but will put it in a spoiler if you'd rather not follow a link. It is addressed, in part, to a couple of other groups I'm in so ignore stuff you find irrelevant :)

(view spoiler)[ 3 stars
Hard core scifi, and, as is common in this, sex, intrigue, politics, philosophical type debates, descriptions of the changing surface of Mars, action, in-fighting, out-fighting, etc--it's there. Also, Maps if you are doing the 2020 PopSugar Challenge (there are maps in the first one as well, if you opt to start with Red Mars, which I strongly recommend doing in order to save confusion, etc. Summary on the book page, but what I first wrote a couple of minutes ago:

Green Mars--the settlers on Mars--people from disparate backgrounds who are there for many reasons--and the Mars natives (descendants of settlers) have either been part of or failed to stop the transformation of Mars from inhospitable to life to fit for life. There is a great deal of strife not only between factions on Mars, but from enormous corporations and countries, etc, for control of Mars and its resources. The question is, who will manage to come out on top? Since this is the second book in the trilogy, rest assured that the final answer won't be there by the last page, but a number of years and plenty of things will have happened. (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

I came across this yesterday re: TV adaptation and recalled that there had been some discussion here. Apparently it's been abandoned.

https://twitter.com/straczynski/statu...

[Gabi]

Don't forget to pick up "Blue Mars" as your last read of the year and join us in the Buddy Read.

I'm starting today, cause every other book I was contemplating would fit into one of my endless number of challenges for 2020 :D.

[Jemppu]

I've also started already, and am enjoying the read ^^

[Dawn F]

Already started and it’s so good! I’m so happy to go through this series, it’s seriously one of the best things I’ve ever read.

[Atlanta]

Thanks for the suggestion, I put the first book on my want to read shelf.

[Gabi]

That's the way, Atl !

Glad to hear that folks are enjoying the book so far.

[Atlanta]

I’m currently listening to the forever war and I noticed the two are similar .

[Karin]

I have it here, but have a pile of other books I'm trying to finish by the end of the month. Still, I ought to get started since I am guessing it will take me some time to read it if it's like the first two :)

[Mareike]

I'm not sure if I'll get to this before the end of the year, but I can always necropost if my other books take me too long to finish.
Have fun, y'all!

[DivaDiane]

I started a few days ago, because I know I won’t get much listening time over the holidays. So far it’s very nice being in a familiar world with familiar people.

[Oleksandr]

I started it too and now happily traveling with Sax why he thinks about pseudo-sciences

[Oleksandr]

Ok, I'm on Part 4 and here are some of my thoughts so far

Part 1 (view spoiler)[I still have a problem with Ann's point of view and protecting rocks over people. For me it is ultimately selfish "I like that dead nature, and don't care if for majority it is harder to live". re downing the cable, recall that H-bombs were used for heating Mars and if Reds would have been really determinate, blowing 50 megaton at 5 km would seal the deal, but it would be bad for the story. (hide spoiler)]
Part 2 (view spoiler)[Just like at the end of Green Mars we have a Deux ex Machina solution - there it was a large supply of ready masks for a march, here a unique genetic disorder meets a unique man to cure it... at the same time I liked Sax musings about pseudosciences - psychology and economics. Even if I sometimes disagree (hide spoiler)]
Part 3 (view spoiler)[A new order debate is great for me - I'm an economist with a minor in political sciences and it goes well my way :) While leftism of KSM and an assumption that mainstream theoretical economics is a pawn of capital (meta-corps) it is still an interesting read. Coops, like suggested were actively used in Yugoslavia - they simply don't work for the greater good - they turn into a modern version of guilds, closed to others. Gift economy isn't Pareto optimal even among altruistic individuals either. I still love the discussion itself (hide spoiler)]