Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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The Nonesuch
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The Nonesuch Oct 2019 Group Read Chapters 1-10
This is the rare Heyer which I read shortly after discovering her books, and remembered the characters and story vividly, but somehow forgot that it was a Heyer book until I re-read it years later. I liked it the first two times that I read it, so this is my third time through, and my first as a group read. Really looking forward to the discussion!
I am using my kindle, which has the same image as the threads:
I have read it several times, from the time it was published, but not as often as others. It's not a favourite, mainly because of an unbelievable pivotal plot point (of which more later), but also because I dislike the contempt for Julian that Waldo shows, and encourages in his favourite Julian. Given the age and wealth discrepancy, it comes across as bullying. So I never warm to Sir Waldo.
My nonfiction book has me needing some light escapism, so I am hoping to start later today. I like this novel,but it does have some weaknesses for me.Like most Heyer's I've probably read this one at least 30 times.
I have read it many times; it's in the middle for me, not a favorite, not a least favorite. I have a copy from interlibrary loan and I'm not finding the cover here on goodreads.
it's a view from the back of Waldo in his many-caped driving coat and holding a whip with the horses and carriage behind him. he looks pretty fancy!
Oh, a cover mystery! Who is the publisher, Jackie?
I haven't read The Nonesuch as often as some other Heyers; I suspect Rosina and I are put off by the same unbelievable plot point late in the book. However, I am on my second copy, which is a hardcover
, upgraded from my original paperback, which apparently doesn't have a Goodreads image. It was orange, like Ancilla's gown...
While browsing, I found this gorgeous cover
and just in case you weren't aware that the story is set in the countryside, there is a helpful man off to the side with that traditional milk-pail-carry-thingo - does anyone know the name of that contraption?
*of course, no idea who the lady in the forefront is meant to be... surely not Ancilla.
**it is a bit of a dreary scene..
I have a paper-back with this cover picture
- although mine has a white surround, not the orange background.I also have an audio book, with this rather worrying cover
Critterbee❇ wrote: " that traditional milk-pail-carry-thingo - does anyone know the name of that contraption?"According to it's a carrying pole or milkmaid's yoke
Rosina wrote: "I have a paper-back with this cover picture - although mine has a white surround, not the orange background.I also have an audio book, with this rather worrying c..."
!!!!!!!!!!
Worrying, indeed! And his eyes follow you about the room....
This one is merely 'okay' with me--like Jackie, it is neither a favorite nor a cellar-dweller. I've read it a number of times, but not recently.I've this copy from the library:
But this was my first copy:
To which I can only ask: What is going on here? Who are these people???
Jackie wrote: "I have read it many times; it's in the middle for me, not a favorite, not a least favorite. I have a copy from interlibrary loan and I'm not finding the cover here on goodreads.
it's a view fro..."
Jackie
it sounds like this one:
which is the original hardback edition.
If this isn't the correct cover, then I, for one, am stumped!
The Nonesuch is not one of my favourite GH's (again, I agree about the unbelievable plot point - but perhaps it hasn't aged well!). But I said the same about A Civil Contract, and ended up enjoying re-reading it immensely, so perhaps the same will happen with The NS. If nothing else, nice to read a GH I don't know the plot inside out of!I must dig out my copy, and see which version I have. It may be the one with the milkmaid yoke, as most of my GHs are from that era.
I look forward to reading it after all these years.
Barb in Maryland wrote:But this was my first copy:
That's the one! (although copy-and-paste isn't picking up the actual picture of the cover)
That is one of the gorgeous Heinemann covers, and is under other editions in Goodreads, on the second page.* For me it is on the second page, I am accessing it on my laptop. Not sure how it appears on mobile!
I’ve read this one a few times - I don’t remember much, so it’s not a favorite, but I think I enjoyed it, at least according to my five-star rating! But, that was a few years ago, so we’ll see how it holds up. I have the Sourcebooks paperback
.
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Oh, a cover mystery! Who is the publisher, Jackie?"it's the one in both message 7 and 13. that coat really looks heavy, like you wouldn't want to wear it on a hot day.
I can't wait to read this one again. It's one of my favorites. It's not a 5 star because of the misunderstanding. The library copy I have on hold is dated 1963. The library doesn't have a picture of the cover but I am assuming it's
. That's the one I read before.
My edition is another of the Harlequins with the embarrassing covers, but luckily the cover fell off just as I started reading this time so I don't have to worry that anyone will see it. As usual I took advantage of my "reading week" (the last week of the month, usually) so I am about two-thirds of the way through.This one is probably high in my second rank of favorites, and I don't have the problems many do with either the unbelievable plot point or Sir Waldo's relationship with Laurence, who seems such a pusillanimous slug to me that I can't blame Sir Waldo for his distaste, and at least Sir Waldo tries to compensate for his feelings and be fair.
I will be reading this in ebook with the same cover as tnose reading on Kindle. I know I have at least one paper copy too, but not sure where. I reread this several years ago, not remembering much and not thinking I liked it much. Well I was charmed. Looking forward to a revisit!
I own the Sourcebooks and kindle editions, but this time, I’m going to listen to the audio.
FWIW my cover is from a paperback (Pan) edition of 1975. No idea when I bought it - probably later than that in a charity shop I expect.It shows Waldo holding his whip and hat, with a dog in front of him, and a lady (Ancilla?) behind him, by an inn possible - he's looking very 'manly'!!!
I wonder how 'normal' the name Waldo was at the time it is set? The only other Waldo I know of is Ralph Waldo Emerson! I think the opening chapter says his father's name was Thursten, another odd one.
Ancilla, too, is 'odd' - doesn't it mean 'maid' in Latin (as in 'ancillary'??)
What is odd to us was not necessarily odd to those in that era. I had a grandmother named Dide, a great-aunt Nonga, aunts named Ethel, Mabel, Merle, my Dad was Irvin. Knowing GH’s research habits, I suspect she had a source or sources for names from the era. I find her characters easier to track than Austen who used the same name, such as John, for a few characters in the same book—John, a brother, John, a servant, and so forth. But Austen was probably correct in using it that way, I know many men named John, and am married to one. I imagine people would find some of our currently popular names confounding. Thursten I remember from Gilligan’s Island, lol.
Ancilla means slave girl, maid servant, according to the name book. Not something I would name my daughters, that is for sure.
Waldo is a German name, it means “powerful” and “ruler”.
Ancilla does mean "female servant": you'll see it if you read or sing the Magnificat in Latin, where Mary says "I am the handmaid of the Lord."
Kim wrote: "Knowing GH’s research habits, I suspect she had a source or sources for names from the era. I find her characters easier to track than Austen who used the same name, such as John, for a few characters in the same book—John, a brother, John, a servant, and so forth. But Austen was probably correct in using it that way, , ..."Families did tend to use the same name - researching my family, I often have to distinguish between various cousins all with the same name, because they were all named after the grandfather.
My own grandfather and his brothers and sisters all had two given names that great grandfather apparently insisted were used in full.
Beth-In-UK wrote: "FWIW my cover is from a paperback (Pan) edition of 1975. No idea when I bought it - probably later than that in a charity shop I expect.It shows Waldo holding his whip and hat, with a dog in fron..."
This picture is here
. They don't have the edition in white rather than orange, 1975, which is the copy I have. I agree that he is rather thrustingly manly!
Rosina wrote: "... rather thrustingly manly!"Ha!!
Oh - that cover! That dog, just standing there looking happy, must have been an after thought - I can see the publisher now:
"How about a dog, we can put a happy dog right there on the cover, people love dogs!"
...and that shade of green, poor Ancilla!
Glad my dim memories of long ago school Latin proved right! Probably because of the word 'ancillary' I expect. Yes, that is my copy, except the cover is white, but the title is in that strange mustard colour.I guess the dog makes him look sporty, as if he's about to leap on a horse (and ride ventre a terre perhaps???!!!!!) to hunt down a fox?! (Yes, definitely a smiley dog!)
As for Ancilla, is it me or does her costume look a bit non-Regency? The waistline is quite low, and the hair seems to me to be more Victorian than Regency??
Glad I'm not the only one thinking Waldo 'posing' in a manly fashion!!!! :)
Kim, oh dear, Ethel and Mabel - two of the grimmest names in the Victorian canon! Edith is quite bad too - think poor Lady Edith in Downton Abbey! She could never have been a beauty with such a name.Speaking of John, I've always thought it the most frequently used name in English. Not sure why that should be so, but it is almost the 'standard male name' (much like Mary is for females?)(presumably from the Virgin Mary)
(which ties in nicely with the handmaid of the Lord!)
Still on names....as an aside, I always wonder why Jane Austen called two characters (Jane Bennet and Jane Fairfax) with her own name. It seems odd to have a character you create with your own name, and surely it must indicate she saw 'something of herself' in the character with her own name? On the other hand, maybe, knowing Austen's sense of humour, she did it as a tease for her family??
Beth-In-UK wrote: "Kim, oh dear, Ethel and Mabel - two of the grimmest names in the Victorian canon! Edith is quite bad too - think poor Lady Edith in Downton Abbey! She could never have been a beauty with such a nam..."There is the rather sad Lady Mabel in The Duke's Children, but my mother was Mabel! Mabel Rosina, actually - I was named after her.
I found researching my family that there were a lot of the same names. I used to long for an Arbuthnot or Esmeralda just to break the monotony. I disagree about Edith though. There was Edith of the swan neck! King Harold's wife.
I'm SO looking forward to this one. It's my absolute favorite Heyer since I first read it and I've read it many times. I don't have any problems either with it. Laurence is a pain in the backside and needs to grow up and I love Waldo. I'll be reading on kindle this time as the print in my paperback is too small. Hope to start tomorrow. Reading time has been scarce of late.
Part of my problem stems from Heyer's apparent confusion over timing. We are told (in the first chapter) that Waldo 'ruined' Laurie, by showering money (but not affection) on him, but that by the time Julian went to Harrow he (Waldo) wasn't such a cawker as he had been when Laurie was a boy.Assuming Julian went to Harrow at 13 (if not earlier), Laurie would still only have been 16, and presumably still at school. But already ruined enough to provide an awful warning of the sins of generosity. The fact that Julian is not in need of financial assistance is barely touched on as a difference. Waldo of course does not disguise the fact that he never liked Laurie (even as a 13 year old boy?) and that he did like Julian.
re: She had a cousin Jane Cooper. It was a name she knew and obvious liked. Why not? Waldo and Ancilla are unusual names. English naming patterns aren't as strict as other European countries. Forget trying to track down your direct Italian ancestors without documentation. In the 17th century when the Puritans arrived in the New World, the eldest son was named after his paternal grandfather, eldest daughter paternal grandmother, second son/daughter after the maternal grandparents and then third set of children after the parents. This switched when they arrived in New England and started to name their children after themselves and then those virtue names all New Englanders giggle over when we walk through the cemeteries. Possibly Ancilla's name relates to God. Isn't she from a clerical family? I don't have the book on me to check.
This is a story I've always enjoyed, although it is fairly predictable. You get the feeling Heyer didn't spend a lot of time on this one. I have not read it in a number of years and have held off the last little while, hoping for a Group Read! Yay!The name Waldo makes me think of the children's puzzle books, "Where's Waldo?" Fortunately I don't picture this character in a red and white striped sweater and hat!
Rosina wrote: "Beth-In-UK wrote: "FWIW my cover is from a paperback (Pan) edition of 1975. No idea when I bought it - probably later than that in a charity shop I expect.It shows Waldo holding his whip and hat,..."
OMG how manly is that pose, LOL, he's going to thrust right out of his breeches and it looks even sillier with that sweetly vacuous dog's face right there!
Re Ancilla and why GH might have chosen it - could it be a little wry poke at the fact that she is now 'reduced' to being the 'handmaid' of Mrs U and the ghastly Tiffany??!
Another brand new read for me, like ACC. On Kindle, this one. Looking forward to it!
Elza, in England those books are called Where's Wally! (Maybe Wally is indeed the short form of Waldo - but in the English vernacular it also means 'idiot'....as in 'Don't be a total wally you nitwit!' kind of thing!
(As an aside, we in the UK have a similar issue with your name Randy....absolutely NO boy over here would be called Randy....it's an adjective meaning, excuse my language (!), er ,'up for it' in a very teenager-sort of post-pubescent way!!!!!!!)
is anyone else seeing a similarity between Julian and (view spoiler) (hope I've remembered how to do the spoiler!)
On names, QNPoorBear, very interesting re New England tradition etc. One thing we Brits notice about US names often is that their first or middle 'forename' (as in, the name you address them by) is often their mother's maiden surname. I don't think we have that tradition over here.I'm from a family, and married into one too, where there are 'set names' and that is that! All the generations recycle the same names, certainly for the 'first born male', but also for females as well. All my extant family members have names that came from grandparents, aunts/uncles etc. I personally find it both comforting (family continuity) but also makes life a lot easier, and less argumentative (!) when a new baby arrives! No new baby is ever going to be called Esmerelda or Arbuthnot in our family!!!!! (OK, maybe, at the very very outside, a middle name if there are several middle names!!!!)
(I don't think I could bear to choose a name out of the huge huge number of possibilities - I'd spend the rest of my child's life thinking I should have chosen another one!)
Re Ancilla and the possibility of a clerical family, eg, a vicar thinking it a good idea his daughter should be a 'handmaid' of God (dark associations these days, of course, courtesy of M Atwood!!!!!), it reminds me of the GH (view spoiler) where the heroine is told her name means 'Father Rejoiced' (I think the name was (view spoiler)) which was highly inappropriate in her particular circumstances IIRC.
Back to The Nonesuch (do you pronounce it, do you think, Non-such, or Nun-such??), I'm just encountered the ghastly Tiffany (SUCH a good name for her!).Does anyone think she has any redeeming qualities at all?
These days I guess she'd be labelled with a blazing personality disorder - Narcissism. If not actual psychopathy!
I suppose the only thing we can say in her defence is that she was appallingly brought up - but then, does that account for her monstrous narcissism?
I get the feeling GH had fun creating a character that no one could possibly like or have a good word for!
Georgette Heyer Fans
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The Nonesuch (other topics)
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This thread is for first thoughts about the book.
Is this your first read? How many times have you read The Nonesuch? Which format are you using? And what does your cover look like?
Is this anyone's favourite Heyer?
Please remember to use spoiler tags or to post spoilers in the spoiler thread.