Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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The Nonesuch
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The Nonesuch Oct 2019 Group Read Chapters 1-10
Regarding covers: I'm reading on my ereader, but the cover on my edition is the one shown above, of the gentleman in knee-breeches. It is not something that normally affects me one way or the other. However, this one bothers me because this bewigged fellow could not possibly be any of the male characters in this book, except possibly the miserly Uncle Joseph!
Yes, I agree - he looks a bit Georgian to me, but I can't see the pic properly as it's very small on my screen. It looks like a 'real' portrait, as in, of a real person that has been borrowed by the publisher. Maybe I'm wrong on that.I prefer my 'thrusting manly' version of Waldo from my 1975 paperback!!!! :)
Greetings Fellow GH lovers! I'm really looking forward to this group read. :-) I'm reading from the Kindle version but I still have the Mandarin paperback I bought on Charing Cross Road in 1997 on my first trip to London. It was a long time ago but I believe I may have purchased 4-5 Heyers at that time since it was difficult to find them in the US. Nothing like binge-reading GH books while in London! Pure joy! Regarding the story, it's in the middle of my list. My favorites are "Venetia" and "A Civil Contract" so this one is at the same level as "The Grand Sophy" and "Frederica".
Cudos to the reader to pointed out Waldo's and Ancilla's grey eyes!! Always a clear indication of who the main romance will be about! :-)
Rosina wrote: "I have a paper-back with this cover picture 
- although mine has a white surround, not the orange background.I also have an audio book, with this rather worrying c..."
Yes, I have the same audio book, Rosina, and the cover is just plain creepy!
Jackie wrote: "I thought the first meeting between Ancilla and Waldo was kind of dull when I first read the book - when I was young! now, I find it sweet. The share some gentle laughter right away and we can tel..."
Totally agree, Jackie! What's more romantic that sharing laughter with someone? For me, that's part of the glue of a strong relationship... even if it's just starting out.
Beth-In-UK wrote: "Mind you, I think Waldo loses a brownie point by being protective only of his cousin - no right thinking person would want ANY young man to be Tiffany's target, or taken in by her! Thinking about..."
True but my impression is that we're dealing with the "popular girl" thing here where Tiffany has become the fashion with most of the young men who, let's face it, are still young enough to basically have two things on their minds: Food and Girls. Well, maybe sport as well. This may be a real reach but isn't like going to a bar or nightclub where all the attention is given to the most beautiful girls even if they are total Bs???
Bookworm, sadly, I agree with your last comment!!! (Sigh....having never been one of the hotties, whether a B or not!!!)I suppose it shows, in a way, that the young men are actually far more competitive with each other, in that the one who gets the most attention from the hottie (ie, Tiffany!) acquires the most kudos from his mates. So, in a way, it isn't about Tiffany at all....she is only the means to an end, and the end is impressing one's fellow mates and scoring the highest 'cool' factor!
Thinking about it, that is the appeal of Waldo to them isn't it ....in today's parlance he'd have a very high 'cool' rating, thanks to his sporting prowess. :)
I've got the same paperback cover as Rosina and Bookworman, but with a white, not mustard coloured background.I'm not sure about creepy - it's a bit as if Waldo is saying 'Here it is ladies, come and get it!'...... :) :)
(Not that Waldo would ever say such a thing, or even think it!) (the illustrator clearly did though ha ha!)
I'm a chapter in. Lady Lindeth sounds like a nightmare parent but surprisingly Julian appears quite nice while Lawrence is awful. Waldo of the unfortunate name has a sense of humor and a sense of decency. While his cousins' mothers were greedy and grasping for their uncle's fortune, Waldo was content with what he had and didn't bother his uncle since his uncle could't be bothered with him. The others can't understand this. I think it speaks well of Waldo and also that he wants to open an orphanage. If I wasn't already half in love with him from previous reads, I think I would quite like him already!
Beth-In-UK wrote: "I've got the same paperback cover as Rosina and Bookworman, but with a white, not mustard coloured background.I'm not sure about creepy - it's a bit as if Waldo is saying 'Here it is ladies, come..."
To me it is like a Regency version of "And here is Waldo totally rocking this..." :D
Elza wrote: "Regarding covers: I'm reading on my ereader, but the cover on my edition is the one shown above, of the gentleman in knee-breeches. It is not something that normally affects me one way or the other..."Hi Elza in most cases the Arrow & Source book covers are awful - & lazy choices. But are those fobs at "Waldo's" waist?
Bookworman wrote: "Greetings Fellow GH lovers! I'm really looking forward to this group read. :-) I'm reading from the Kindle version but I still have the Mandarin paperback I bought on Charing Cross Road in 1997 on ..."Glad you could join us!
I remember reading a Mandarin edition of Arabella a few years ago! I wasn't a GR librarian then & didn't know how to get a cover added.
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "It’s really appalling the Mrs Underhill actually WANTS her son to [spoilers removed]I’m also enjoying the rivalry between [spoilers removed]"
I think this is desperate optimism on Mrs U's part. And a little laziness to think (view spoiler)
Carol - definitely rocking!! :)And I think they are fobs? Not entirely sure what a fob was (!), but presumably some kind of ornamental trifles that could be an expensive something or other for a man to buy and wear.
QN, I don't think Lady Lindeth a nightmare parent at all! She seems a very sensible 'empty nester' parent, who is, very understandably, concerned for the well-being and eventual future of her son. She's widowed, so has no 'authoritative male' to turn to, and she seems to have a very sensible and wise attitude towards Julian. As in, she knows she can't be 'over-protective' or he will chafe or rebel (or, worse, give in), yet of course she is fearful for him.And with good reason. Imagine if Julian had fallen into Tiffany's toils without Waldo and Ancilla to protect and eventually rescue him (ie, by helping him 'see the light' about her). Mariage to Tiffany would have been a nightmare, and utterly ruined his life. He could only have been freed by her death.
There is also the point that Waldo had no need of his uncle's fortune, being very rich already.....!
I'm just reading Chapter 10, and to my mind I'm disapproving of Waldo for the first time. Laurie has just arrived, and is being, for Laurie, 'not bad', as in he's apologised for his outburst at the beginning of the book, and isn't here to ask Waldo to pay more debts etc (and hasn't run up any either since the beginning of the book, at least not gaming debts).He's actually got a business proposal that he wants Waldo to invest in. And this is where I criticise Waldo. Yes, the scheme (to go into business with his chum, who's inherited a run down estate in Ireland, to buy horses in Ireland and bring them over to England to sell as hunters) may be highly risky and NOT a good investment for anyone, but if Waldo had more sense he would NOT have rubbished it right from the start!
A 'sensible' reaction would have been to applaud Laurie for at least seeking to come up with a way to earn a living, and praised him for that, and then to say something like 'OK, so I've heard the bare bones. You'll appreciate there is a lot of risk involved in the scheme, but let's see if you can put together a viable business plan, with start up costs, running costs, time to profit, profitability, etc ec' and then I'll take a decent look at it with my man of business, and if I then think it's viable I will, very cautiously, invest a LITTLE of what you want, but only on the basis that I will oversee the entire endeavour and have the final say on whether it goes ahead etc.'
The point is he should have got Laurie to realise it was unworkable, but at the same time praise Laurie where praise was due (ie, that he was actually trying to come up with a viable business!) (and not just borrow money and gamble etc!), and then, when Laurie realises that his scheme was not profitable, carefully guide him to something that might be profitable.
So, minus points to Waldo for shooting Laurie down so harshly, when for the very first time Laurie is actually trying to make some money.
PS - I think Ancilla would have handled Laurie a lost more skilfully!!!!!
Beth-In-UK wrote: "PS - I think Ancilla would have handled Laurie a lost more skilfully!!!!!"very likely - she is about the most tactful person on the planet, isn't she? if Waldo was going to go into politics (maybe in addition to philanthropy?) she would make a wonderful hostess for his parties.
well, she will anyway, just socially.
I agree!! And Waldo would be good in politics - not a 'radical' as such, but definitely cut from the same cloth as, say, Wilberforce or Lord Shaftesbury. I'm sure he would have pushed for more protection for the 'deserving poor'.
Beth-In-UK wrote: "I agree!! And Waldo would be good in politics - not a 'radical' as such, but definitely cut from the same cloth as, say, Wilberforce or Lord Shaftesbury. I'm sure he would have pushed for more prot..."makes total sense - all those orphans need better laws even after learning a trade.
this needs to go in the sequel!
Beth-In-UK wrote: "Mind you, I think Waldo loses a brownie point by being protective only of his cousin - no right thinking person would want ANY young man to be Tiffany's target, or taken in by her! Thinking about..."
But, Beth, if the girls say anything about Tiffany, they could be labeled as “jealous cats” - by Tiffany, for sure! Probably in an explosive scene - there has been a lot in the news here in the last couple years about narcissism, and I’ve read that’s partly how these people manipulate others - charm, but then the threat of the exhausting tantrum to follow if they are crossed. I would think anyone who grew up in Tiffany’s orbit would have witnessed that, and decided it wasn’t worth drawing her derision or scorn as jealous.
Bookworman wrote: "Jackie wrote: "I thought the first meeting between Ancilla and Waldo was kind of dull when I first read the book - when I was young! now, I find it sweet. The share some gentle laughter right away..."
Absolutely! My husband and I have gotten through some very difficult times, largely through humor!
Bookworman wrote: "Beth-In-UK wrote: "Mind you, I think Waldo loses a brownie point by being protective only of his cousin - no right thinking person would want ANY young man to be Tiffany's target, or taken in by he..."Yes, that’s what I was trying to say - Tiffany is a real Queen Bee, and the girls risk looking spiteful and jealous of her beauty if they say anything about her.
Beth-In-UK wrote: "Bookworm, sadly, I agree with your last comment!!! (Sigh....having never been one of the hotties, whether a B or not!!!)I suppose it shows, in a way, that the young men are actually far more comp..."
Yes - plus, Tiffany is flirty with him when she gets the chance, so I imagine to the young gentlemen it just increases Waldo’s “cool factor”!
QNPoohBear wrote: "I'm a chapter in. Lady Lindeth sounds like a nightmare parent but surprisingly Julian appears quite nice while Lawrence is awful. Waldo of the unfortunate name has a sense of humor and a sense of d..."You sum it up perfectly! I’m at about chapter 10 (had to break off to read some library books to be returned), but your summation holds for me. I’m totally enjoying it, like every past read, and find Waldo pretty perfect.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Elza wrote: "Regarding covers: I'm reading on my ereader, but the cover on my edition is the one shown above, of the gentleman in knee-breeches. It is not something that normally affects me one way..."Have to admit, you’re right; I have the Sourcebooks pb
, and the worried face audiobook from Audible (weird cover, but enjoying narrator - not as fabulous as Phyllida, but who is?)Well, I read a bio of George Washington last year, and I must say, this cover always reminds me of a formal portrait of a youngish Washington- and that would be all wrong, timing wise, wouldn’t it?
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "It’s really appalling the Mrs Underhill actually WANTS her son to [spoilers removed]I’m also enjoying the rivalry between [spoilers re..."
Me, too - fortune or not, I wouldn’t wish her on my son!
Beth-In-UK wrote: "PS - I think Ancilla would have handled Laurie a lost more skilfully!!!!!"Exactly! Haven’t gotten to this part yet, but vaguely remembering - made me realize, yet again (view spoiler)
Jackie wrote: "Beth-In-UK wrote: "I agree!! And Waldo would be good in politics - not a 'radical' as such, but definitely cut from the same cloth as, say, Wilberforce or Lord Shaftesbury. I'm sure he would have p...";)
Not going to start this until Monday maybe. I'm feeling very under the weather and as it's my favorite Heyer I want to do it justice in the discussions.
Oh, I am sorry- take care of yourself!
"the threat of the exhausting tantrum to follow if they are crossed. I would think anyone who grew up in Tiffany’s orbit would have witnessed that, and decided it wasn’t worth drawing her derision or scorn as jealous. "But I think that is the problem! Narcissists only have power if they persuade others to fear their tantrums! It's the old 'egg-shelling' problem - one must never walk on eggshells around anyone!
And I don't think the other girls would appear jealous - not if they praised her beauty to the skies (which is true), but said what a pity her personality didn't match.
I doubt Ancilla 'fears' Tiffany's 'I'm not happy!!!!!' tantrums, but she wards them off for the sake of Mrs Underhill, who clearly dreads them.
Big mistake!
Other people's anger is THEIR problem, not ours! That's the only message a diva like Tiffany needs to hear. NOT to be 'eggshelled'....
Beth-In-UK wrote: ""the threat of the exhausting tantrum to follow if they are crossed. I would think anyone who grew up in Tiffany’s orbit would have witnessed that, and decided it wasn’t worth drawing her derision ..."I absolutely agree, but I think you’re right - Ancilla may not dread Tiffany’s tantrums, but everyone else does!
Karlyne wrote: I like Waldo, by the way, in spite of his unfortunate name. He's quick-witted, but he's also kind. Their little exchange about Charlotte's aversion to horses is a good example; he won't twit her about it, and he manages to turn the "intolerably conceited" remark into a neat return.I was travelling the last couple of days and read this whole book in a single day - not really the way to appreciate a good Heyer, but I guess it says a lot when I didn’t want to put it down!
Only a few days in and look where the discussions are!! Catching up on them will be a good way to revisit the book after such a rushed read.
I also like Waldo, Karlyne gives a good example of the reason why. He’s also genuinely kind to the scholarly Humphrey in Ch 5.
Someone mentioned that Waldo and Ancilla seem to fall for each other quite quickly, but no more so than in, say, The Unknown Ajax. I didn’t have a problem with it, they seemed so well-suited.
Teresa wrote: "Not going to start this until Monday maybe. I'm feeling very under the weather and as it's my favorite Heyer I want to do it justice in the discussions."Hope you feel better soon!
In the first few pages Lady Lindeth sounds like a nightmare but I can see that she allows her son to live his own life in spite of wanting to bring him into fashion. Tiffany is absolutely horrid. Ancilla knows Tiffany will not have any suitors if she continues with her terrible behavior. Oh my! Her relatives, who don't want her and can't handle her, would be stuck with her forever.
Ancilla is from a military family not a clerical family so we're still left wondering about her name. Maybe it's a family name passed down from a clerical branch of the family or godmother? She is sensible yet still bowled over when meeting Waldo. I like how she keeps her cool even though she's just met the embodiment of her masculine ideal.
Waldo sounds like a great guy so far. He's good with Julian, having learned a lesson with Laurence, he's kind to young Charlotte and doesn't make fun of her for being afraid of horses and respects the vicar.
I have a good summary of what a Nonesuch is and what happens when he comes to town. Two words: Tom Brady (quarterback for the New England Patriots football team, modern day dandy and the idol of 90% of the population of New England). If Tom was suddenly single and bothered to come to town (he doesn't live far away and other players live here and socialize here) the men would pee their pants trying to show off and get to know him and the women would swoon. I have to get my dad to read this and see how ridiculous his hero worship is LOL! I love the ironic tone of the Squire's commentary and how he doesn't see the Nonesuch as being all that. It sounds like my giant eyeroll whenever my dad and the other football fanatics talk abut their idol.
Beth-In-UK wrote: "I'm just reading Chapter 10, and to my mind I'm disapproving of Waldo for the first time. Laurie has just arrived, and is being, for Laurie, 'not bad', as in he's apologised for his outburst at the..."This makes a lot of sense. When Laurie’s trying to change his ways, it does seem a shame Waldo isn’t more supportive.
I can perhaps understand why. Having finally taken a stand, perhaps he’d feel that if he succumbs at the very next approach Laurie makes it might undermine that? It might seem a slippery slope, that it would be very easy for Laurie to slip back into thinking he can rely financially on Waldo, when this is something he’s trying to reverse.
Also, of course he genuinely feels that it’s a poor idea for a business venture. The approach you suggest would have been much better! (view spoiler)
Mod
- although mine has a white surround, not the orange background.I also have an audio book, with this ra..."
That woman in the background is clearly Scarlett O'Hara, in her outfit made from the curtains!
Mod
Thinking about it, we can easily see why Julian, a stranger to the district, is easy prey for Tiffany's vanity and manipulativeness etc etc.
But one might think that all the other young men of the district, who've grown up knowing about Tiffany, and whose sisters, especially, know all about her, are 'wise' to her. Surely their sisters, if nothing else, would have warned them that Tiffany, to use the modern vernacular, was a B of the first order!
..."
But they haven't grown up with her, have they? She was at school in Bath and has only fairly recently been sent back to Yorkshire.
I expect Waldo feels it's for the other young men's parents to look out for their own sons - and Lindeth is particularly in danger because he's got a title.
Tom Brady's a bit ancient for a nonesuch these days, isn't he??!!!!! (or is it sacrilege to say so!) (But of course it's an excellent modern day analogy.)Yes, the green curtains that Scarlett turns into a dress! (But it doesn't fool Rhett, does it? He spots her work worn hands....)
Mod
We first see her 'dressing her soft brown hair' as she thinks it might be nice to be a dazzling beauty, but by the time we actually see her at the first party she's 'angelically fair'!
The hussy ;-)
I think dressing one's hair is simply putting it up with pins, isn't it?And I suspect the 'angelically fair' is using fair as 'beautiful'?
Either that, or she's been dunking her hair in a bucket of lemon juice!!!!! :)
I wonder whether hair dye was possible in Regency times (other than lemon juice to lighten it a bit??)
I seem to remember reading that sugar water was used as 'hair gel'.....very sticky, but it would hold the curls etc. In summer it must have been a magnet for wasps though!
Yes, but wasn't she tumbling about the countryside as a tomboy when she was a child? But I guess when she returned as a stunning beauty, that would have wiped out any tomboy impressions she'd made on the local lads.Good point that the local lads have their mums and dads to keep them safe from Tiffany!
Teehee, Jenny--well spotted!Teresa, I hope you feel better soon and that you hear encouraging tidings from your daughter and her adjustment to college life!
Could it be a light brown hair, and so a fairer shade than dark brown hair? Or or or maybe it was wet when she was dressing it, that always makes hair look darker!
I think walnut shells were used for dying hair dark colors.
Thanks guys for the kind words. I just can't concentrate at the moment. On strong antibiotics. I want to do the book justice.Abigail, she's doing great. Loving the course. You know she's a mature student but she didn't expect to be the only one. However, she's getting on fine with the others and seems to have become a sort of mother figure to some of them:)
I'm so delighted for her. Something positive at last.
Teresa wrote: "Not going to start this until Monday maybe. I'm feeling very under the weather and as it's my favorite Heyer I want to do it justice in the discussions."Teresa, I hope you feel better - when I feel like that, I am most likely to re-read something I know is comfort reading.
Also, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on your fav Heyer!!
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Secret Garden (other topics)The Black Moth (other topics)
Powder and Patch (other topics)
Arabella (other topics)
The Nonesuch (other topics)
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Thinking about it, we can easily see why Julian, a stranger to the district, is easy prey for Tiffany's vanity and manipulativeness etc etc.
But one might think that all the other young men of the district, who've grown up knowing about Tiffany, and whose sisters, especially, know all about her, are 'wise' to her. Surely their sisters, if nothing else, would have warned them that Tiffany, to use the modern vernacular, was a B of the first order!