The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
This topic is about
The Portrait of a Lady
Henry James Collection
>
The Portrait of a Lady - Chapters 22-28
Is enjoyment the right word? I think James draws you in like sadist and before you know where you are you are masochistally enjoying his BDSM :O
Madge wrote: "Is enjoyment the right word? I think James draws you in like sadist and before you know where you are you are masochistally enjoying his BDSM :O"A very vivid description! It would be interesting to see how James's popularity has waxed and waned over the years. Looking at his contemporaries, I definitely prefer Wharton.
She is certainly more readable but not as challenging.
Here are some thoughts from chapters 22-26. I've been under the weather so will have to add 27 and 28 in another post.Ch. 22 - Is it just me, or did it feel like this was the beginning of a new novel? We learn that six months have passed since Mr. Touchett's death and we're introduced to a group of people. Like the beginning of the book, it takes several pages before we learn who the characters are. Maybe I'm lazy, but I'm not enjoying this technique. Eventually we meet Mrs. Merle again and are introduced to Mr. Osmond and his daughter Pansy. Madame Merle begins scheming with Osmond about Isabel.
Ch 23 - The narrator does not give us a particularly flattering description of Mr. Osmond. Isabel and Ralph disagree about Madame Merle's character. Ralph concludes, somewhat ominously, that it is "not probable" that Isabel will be injured by her association with Madame Merle.
Ch 24 - We meet Osmond's sister Countess Gemini. She is described as being birdlike and not necessarily agreeable. Osmond talks more about himself and his lack of ambition.
Ch 25 - Madame Merle and the Countess disagree as to whether Isabel should marry Osmond. We still don't know why Madame Merle is pushing Osmond so hard when he doesn't seem to have much to recommend him. We also learn that Pansy is sixteen. I was having a hard time placing her age - sometimes as young as eight and possibly as old as twelve. Was anyone else surprised by this?
Ch 26 - Osmond visits Isabel often, but Mrs. Touchett is not impressed. What could be the appeal of Osmond over Warburton? Isabel plans a trip to Rome and Osmond decides to follow her.
I think one of the important questions concerning the plot and characters is how much can Madame Merle be trusted? If Mrs. Touchett has decided not to protect Isabel, then who will? (Someone mentioned something to this effect in reference to the contrast between Isabel and Elizabeth in Pride and Prejudice). It may be too soon to make this statement, but I think Isabel is not drawn to passionate men (I think someone made a comment in an earlier thread about masculine sexuality). Warburton and Goodwood are clear about their intentions and Isabel rejects them. Osmond takes the attitude of one who is disinterested and somehow Isabel seems drawn to him. I don't think this ends well for Isabel.
I think that it isn't that Isabel is not drawn to passionate men but that she distrusts her own sexual passions and feels they may entrap her. We saw how, after Caspar's proposal, she collapsed with emotion and did not like the feelings his passion aroused in her. IMO she feels that a marriage involving passion will hinder her ability to be an independent woman, a sensible position to take in an era before birth control. Is James also projecting his own feelings about marriage and sex onto her? If she represents Minnie, his dear departed cousin, is he 'saving' Isabel for himself?I feel there is far more to Madame Merle and her relationship with Osmond than meets the eye and wonder whose daughter Pansy really is? Pansy perhaps seems immature to us because children today are so much more 'worldly'.
Jeremy wrote: "...We also learn that Pansy is sixteen. I was having a hard time placing her age - sometimes as young as eight and possibly as old as twelve. Was anyone else surprised by this?..."
Thx for identifying that, Jeremy. I had not, but it makes some things later in the novel seem more plausible.
Madge wrote: "We saw how, after Caspar's proposal, she collapsed with emotion and did not like the feelings his passion aroused in her...."I've never been so sure it was "did not like" as much as it was feared or did not know how to respond as a "proper" woman -- and did not trust her own body to take the lead. Very portrait of a Victorian lady?
(For comparison and contrast, consider Sue Brideshead and Arabella Donn in Hardy's Jude.)
A character analysis quite sympathetic to Sue, less so to Arabella: http://pinkmonkey.com/booknotes/monke...
Jeremy wrote: "...Ch 23 - The narrator does not give us a particularly flattering description of Mr. Osmond...."I like the writing of this sorry bit of self-understanding about/from Mr. Osmond in chapter 22:
....“What do you want to do with her?” he asked at last.
“What you see. Put her in your way.”
“Isn’t she meant for something better than that?”
“I don’t pretend to know what people are meant for,” said Madame Merle. “I only know what I can do with them.”
“I’m sorry for Miss Archer!” Osmond declared.
POAL, Chapter 22
Ominous premonition.
@#9 Yes, she is acting as a procurer:(@#8 I feel there there are so many allusions to sexual feelings throughout PoaL that we can' t say that Isabel has none. I think she just keeps them in check, rather like James himself.
Madge wrote: "I think that it isn't that Isabel is not drawn to passionate men but that she distrusts her own sexual passions and feels they may entrap her. We saw how, after Caspar's proposal, she collapsed wit..."You refer to birth control, so I assume what you mean is that Isabel is worried about a passionate relationship leading to children and thus limiting her freedom. Honestly, I don't see the fear of having children in the text, but for the sake of argument let's say that you're correct. Wouldn't marrying a man with a child have an effect on her as well?
I'm also not sure I agree that Pansy appears the way she does because of a contrast with modern young women. I'm sure there are differences between girls today and girls in the late 19th century, but girls back then could be just as worldly. I can't think of many girls that age in the literature of the time, but the younger sisters from Pride and Prejudice and Tess come to mind. Those characters all seem older than Pansy. Maybe it will be clear later why James is writing her the way he is.
Not in the text Jeremy but nevertheless it must have been an unstated fear for any would be career woman pre birth control. Pansy doesn't involve pregnancy and childbirth and at 16 will soon be off her hands.I don't see the P&P girls, Tess or Pansy as being as worldly, aware of sexual matters and the ways of men as girls of today. How could they be when they were chaperoned and had no personal experiences of the outside world. Tess was seduced due to her innocence, as Hardy's sub title 'A Pure Woman' makes clear.
Could James be making the point that Pansy is just as cloistered because of her privileged upbringing? Isabel too. Only Henrietta seems to have some modern get up and go. Although Isabel talks about her independence there is no indication that she wants to earn her living in any way. Living on inherited income is not exactly independence.
Madge wrote: "I don't see the P&P girls, Tess or Pansy as being as worldly, aware of sexual matters and the ways of men as girls of today."I wasn't thinking in terms of sexuality. My impression is that Pansy is written like a little girl. I'd have to track down the exact quotes, but scenes where she's told to go to the garden and pick flowers, strolling around the house holding her father's hand, etc. I'm not saying a sixteen year old can't do these things, only that I never would have guessed her age based on what has been revealed so far. Maybe we are supposed to infer that her time in the convent has made her this way. James hasn't let us in Pansy's head yet so we don't know if she realizes Madame Merle is pushing her father and Isabel together. It could be that Pansy is James's ideal of purity and innocence. I liked her well enough when I thought she was eight; I'm not so sure about sixteen. We'll have to see if her character continues to develop.
Yes, hand holding at sixteen seems a bit much.
In chapter 27 Lord Warburton runs into Isabel in Rome. They haven't seen each other for months and they have not conversed, though Warburton did write letters he never sent. James doesn't tell us so, but I assume Warburton knows about the inheritance. Surprisingly, Warburton is as in love with Isabel as he ever was. Not surprisingly, Isabel is still adamant in her refusal. At the end of the chapter Osmond and Warburton meet.Is anyone else surprised Warburton's feelings haven't cooled after not seeing Isabel for at least half a year? After all, they only had a short acquaintance.
Jeremy wrote: "Is anyone else surprised Warburton's feelings haven't cooled after not seeing Isabel for at least half a year? After all, they only had a short acquaintance. ..."Strikes me as a man who feels entitled to what he wants -- and I say that not to imply a negative about him. For me, he is a romantic, Darcey-like figure. His was love at first sight, and that can be hard to chase/abandon.
Jeremy wrote: "...Looking at his contemporaries, I definitely prefer Wharton...."Jeremy -- are there female characters of hers that you would place in compare/contrast with Isabel? From The House of Mirth , (view spoiler)
A smile: Although Wharton and James were great friends he became envious of her wealth and ability to get large advances for her books:'After learning that the earnings from one of her novels paid for her luxurious touring car, James remarked that proceeds from ''The Wings of the Dove'' had enabled him to buy a small wheelbarrow in which his guests' luggage might be transported from the local railroad station to his house. ''It needs a coat of paint,'' he wrote. ''With the proceeds of my next novel I shall have it painted.'''
Yes, I see Warburton as a romantic and one wealthy and cultured enough to flit between London and Rome, just as Austen's characters flitted between country estates and Bath. It was what these upper class unemployed men did, so running into Isabel, if not pre planned, was inevitable. It was also what wealthy and well connected Americans like James and Wharton were doing.
Jeremy wrote: "The narrator does not give us a particularly flattering description of Mr. Osmond..."No, Osmond is portrayed right from the start of this section as a man of artistic sensibilities but apparently few feelings. He does not seem even to care for his things, saying "I'm sick of my adorable taste."
Nor does he seem to care greatly for his daughter. I found it extraordinary that he had to be told by the nuns what Pansy had learnt, as if he had had nothing to do with her upbringing - and when he says "She looks sound," he's talking of her as if she's a piece of furniture. "I wish you could keep her always," he tells the nuns, a very odd thing to say. Why? Is he afraid she will be spoilt by the world, or is there a subtext that he does not want the trouble of her?
Although he's described as an intellectual man, there's little evidence of interest or understanding in his brutal estimate of Ralph: "a jackanapes...a good deal of a donkey." Ralph, on the other hand, is capable of a much more astute analysis of Osmond as "a prince who has abdicated in a fit of fastidiousness... he has a great dread of vulgarity, that's his special line." Indeed, Osmond appears indolent, selfish and envious of others.
As for Pansy, she's intriguing; as open and flower-like as her name. I agree that she seems much younger than 16. While the idea of the rebellious teenager obviously didn't exist back then, she does seem remarkably passive. Can any daughter of Osmond's really be so innocent and uncalculating? When Mrs Touchett calls her an "uncanny child" I think she has a point.
Another excursion: Perhaps Osmond as a man of artistic sensibilities is modelled on the wealthy art historian Bernard Berenson because as I read (Chapter 23) that Osmond, the nuns and Pansy were 'gathered in one of the many rooms of an ancient villa crowning an olive-muffled hill outside of the Roman gate of Florence', I realised that James was writing about the Villa Il Tatti in Fiesole where I know he once stayed. I have been to Fiesole and looked at the astounding Villa Il Tatti gardens through the wrought iron gates. It was restored by Berenson and his wife Mary (friend of Edith Wharton) who both played host to the intelligentsia of the day. The British gardener Monty Don did a wonderful TV series on Italian gardens last year which included the Villa Tatti so now you can transport yourselves via this video to where James imagined Osmond to reside, which Monty Don describes as once being 'the centre of a libertine Anglo-American community'. It is now owned by Harvard University who run it as Centre for Italian Renaissance studies. Feast your eyes on the garden and on a couple of interior photos which show the grandeur of the house:-http://youtu.be/g_hzO68JGKk
http://www.poderesantapia.com/art/sas...
http://media.news.harvard.edu/gazette...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=int...
When Osmond was told that Pansy will remain"not big," Osmond remarked "I'm not sorry. I prefer women like books—very good and not too long". I was reminded of Isabel, who is 'bookish'.Later Madame Merle says to Pansy "I'm glad they've taught you to obey," said Madame Merle. "That's what good little girls should do" and I again thought of Isabel who I feel is being 'procured' for Osmond. Chilling:(
I've fallen behind, and I am still in Chapter 22. I am astonished to hear that Pansy is sixteen. I had put her age at somewhere between eight and twelve. When the sisters are leaving, and she wants to out to say goodbye, Madame Merle takes her hand and says "stay with me." That seemed much more in keeping with Pansy being a child. It also seemed to be a bit of selfishness on Madame Merle's part that I did not understand. Obviously, I'll have to keep reading.
Madge wrote: "Another excursion: Perhaps Osmond as a man of artistic sensibilities is modelled on the wealthy art historian Bernard Berenson because as I read (Chapter 23) that Osmond, the nuns and Pansy were 'g..."Thx for these links, Madge. Just enjoyed "the tour."
@#23: Is Madame Merle staking a claim to Pansy, is she her mother???
I was also a little confused/annoyed by the beginning of this section and thought I had opened the wrong book as we were introduced to completely different characters .... very slowly. Once it got going, you could see that Madame Merle is a devious lady and one to be watched.Pansy is a strange child. Not sure if it is the convent upbringing, the norm for that time period of a specific device by HJ, but she doesn't read like a 16 year old.
I did love the descriptions of Rome, they really caught the atmosphere.
Yes, the descriptions of Rome are really effective, and Isabel is obviously deeply impressed. Rome almost seems to cast a sort of enchantment over her: for example, in St Peter's just before she meets Osmond there - and I wonder if the beauty and grandeur of her surroundings make her more susceptible.
Countess Gemini's sarcastic and staccato way of speaking reminds me of Maggie Smith playing the Countess of Grantham in Downtown Abbey!In Chapter 25 She accuses Madame Merle of 'having a little plan' for Isabel and Osmond but says she will try to prevent it because she likes Isabel and does not think her brother, who has done nothing with his life but would like Isabel's money, will be a suitable match. She says to Madame Merle 'You're capable of anything, you and Osmond. I don't mean Osmond by himself, and I don't mean you by yourself. But together you're dangerous—like some chemical combination." An ominous warning from his sister who 'trembles for [Isabel's] happiness'!
And while the romantic Ralph looks forward to Isabel refusing up to ten suitors his more practical mother observes 'But she takes her pleasure in such odd things; she's capable of marrying Mr. Osmond for the beauty of his opinions or for his autograph of Michael Angelo.'
The Countess also remarks on Pansy's 'scanty' dress and thinks they do not look after her very well. Although Pansy is only 16 they are already talking of marrying her off.
Does anyone else find the relationship between Pansy and Osmond rather unsettling. Osmond 'ended by drawing her out of her chair and making her stand between his knees, leaning against him while he passed his arm round her slimness.' Later they walk around the house ' hand in hand'. At sixteen?!
Isabel has an 'image of a quiet, clever, sensitive, distinguished man, strolling on a moss-grown terrace above the sweet Val d'Arno and holding by the hand a little girl whose bell-like clearness gave a new grace to childhood' which is a very odd way to look at a 16 year old. And later 'he brought his small daughter with him, and she rejoiced to renew acquaintance with the child, who, as she presented her forehead to be kissed by every member of the circle, reminded her vividly of an ingenue in a French play. Isabel had never seen a little person of this pattern; American girls were very different—different too were the maidens of England. Pansy was so formed and finished for her tiny place in the world, and yet in imagination, as one could see, so innocent and infantine.'
Is this James romanticised idea of a teenager, a sort of Peter Pan figure? It is very strange, even for a convent girl. Or is it sloppy writing where he has forgotten that he has told his readers Pansy is sixteen?
Lily wrote: "Jeremy wrote: "...Looking at his contemporaries, I definitely prefer Wharton...."Jeremy -- are there female characters of hers that you would place in compare/contrast with Isabel? From [book:Th..."
I'm not sure yet, but when Isabel turned down two suitors I immediately thought of Lily. She was a proud woman who felt entitled to the best and assumed the best would always be available. As the quality of her life descended so did the marriage proposals she received. I'm hoping for a different fate for Isabel, but is there anywhere to go but down (materially speaking) after refusing Warburton and Goodwood?
Madge wrote: "I'm not sorry. I prefer women like books—very good and not too long". I was reminded of Isabel, who is 'bookish'..When I read this passage I thought cynically that this book is not very good and it feels like it will be too long. I doubt James intended this as meta-fiction, but that was certainly my first reaction.
Gosh Jeremy, and it is supposed to be his masterpiece:) I am enjoying it more than Wings of a Dove which I couldn't get to grips with at all.This Italian section reminds me a lot of Dorothea's visit to Italy in Middlemarch but I somehow don't think it will end as romantically....
Madge wrote: "Gosh Jeremy, and it is supposed to be his masterpiece:) I am enjoying it more than Wings of a Dove which I couldn't get to grips with at all."I'm trying to keep an open mind, but this isn't a book where I read a chapter, look at the clock, and decide I have time for one more. I read what I've scheduled and if I have time left pick something else up. In some ways this reminds me of Sister Carrie - a book you know isn't going to end well. It's not as though I only like happy endings - my favorite book from the last five years is Blood Meridian and that has a gruesome, unhappy ending. The problem with PoAL is I don't like the narrator or the characters yet. Most of the characters are bland; the ones who aren't are annoying or dubious. Ralph is bland, Henrietta is annoying. Warburton is bland, Madame Merle looks like she'll be a wolf in sheep's clothing. The protagonist seems determined to make bad decisions. As I write though I realize even this doesn't capture why I'm not enjoying the book. After all, I enjoy Greek and Renaissance tragedy and I know those won't end well. It may be the growing feeling that the work I'm putting into this won't be rewarded in the end. Hopefully I'm wrong.
You are not alone Jeremy. I think James is thought to be hard work for a lot of people. As the English saying goes 'he is too clever by half'. The only character I warm to is Henrietta because she is quirky.
Is Portrait of a Lady supposed to be Henry James' "masterpiece"? It was one of his earlier works, and I was under the impression that his later work was more highly regarded. His later writing was certainly much more mature. I also did not finish Wings of the Dove, due to circumstances, and I read the Ambassadors too long ago to remember, but I had a higher impression of both of those books. Personally, I remember liking Washington Square, though that was also an earlier work.
Casceil: Hermoine Lee writes: 'Henry James's great, humane masterpiece, The Portrait of a Lady (1881), the story of a young, spirited American woman "affronting her destiny", is many readers' favourite of his books. All his critics and biographers put it at the centre of his life and work. It is his turning-point. From being a popular and promising author specialising in Americans in Europe (Daisy Miller, The Europeans, The American), he became an important, renowned figure, acknowledged as a "master" of consciousness, cultural perceptions, humour, subtlety and depth.'
Casceil wrote: "Is Portrait of a Lady supposed to be Henry James' "masterpiece"? ..."I've usually heard PoaL referred to as James's masterpiece of his early works, with his last three novels included among his master works -- The Wings of the Dove, The Ambassadors, and The Golden Bowl. Of those, I have read only WotD, which as I have said elsewhere was my HJ breakthrough read, stubborn as the process was. As I write this, and having seen the movie Gone Girl just this weekend based on Gillian Flynn's book (which I read a couple of years ago), I find myself asking if both don't probe the morality of evil hidden in wrappers of love -- and both explorations of dark recesses of the psyche and the surface pressures of will to live. Must admit it feels a bit strange to contrast what I had previously considered a good beach read with the erudite James. But each have informed the other for me.
Jeremy wrote: "Lily wrote: "Jeremy wrote: "...Looking at his contemporaries, I definitely prefer Wharton...."Jeremy -- are there female characters of hers that you would place in compare/contrast with Isabel? ..."
I certainly can understand contrasting Lily of Wharton's The House of Mirth with Isabel, but Isabel's struggle with her essential essence as a woman is far more interesting to me than Lily's spiral -- and who and what are the resources and attitudes in society about women to thwart or support Isabel as she makes her journey. One other contrast relative to addiction: (view spoiler)
I think of the obnoxious Mrs. Jellyby and Mrs. Pardiggle of Bleak House and wonder what an Isabel with a charitable cause might have been like. Or an Isabel that could have been a bank president [lol]. Journalist was enough for a minor character, hardly adequate for Isabel. Like her aunt, she hardly appears a strong candidate for lady of the house. I don't see Isabel as one of Elizabeth Gaskell's women capable of virtually running her husband's (Goodwood's?) business, even as possibly a future widow. Maternal -- well, we'll see how that plays out.
I find her very disappointing as a character, as if James did not know what to do with her.
Madge wrote: "I find her very disappointing as a character, as if James did not know what to do with her."But isn't that part of what James is laying out for us -- the emptiness of the potential that was available to a lady of the time, other than wife or mother? And Victorian expectations/training put constraints on what the wife part looked like for a "lady." One wants Isabel to take hold of something -- at least as a 21st century reader. Isabel may "affront" her potential, but can she grab ahold of it?
I think we see that because of our familiarity with Victorian literature but I am not at all sure that James cares about the woman's role, or rather non-role. He seems more concerned with interaction between men and women, a sort of fly on the wall of society. Henrietta is shown as doing something but Isabel's 'independence' is shown only as the ability to flit from man to man. Even Ralph who has ensured that she has money to be independent, just sees her rejecting suitor after suiitor - up to ten of them! - as being the role she is playing, as if rejecting suitors was a profession!
Mod
I wondered if Osmond didn't want to keep Pansy around because she's a reminder of his age. He must be at least 40. I don't see what attracts Isabel except that Osmond supposedly has taste and doesn't woo her - but he does visit a lot. But it was Henrietta that wanted to meet the great minds of Europe. I didn't think Isabel was looking for someone to admire.
Throughout this book I've felt that James spends a lot of words describing characters and their feelings, without explaining them to us at all. It's almost like all the words are a smokescreen hiding them further. Or maybe he's saying that none of us know ourselves what our motivations are.
Madge wrote: "@#9 Yes, she is acting as a procurer:(@#8 I feel there there are so many allusions to sexual feelings throughout PoaL that we can' t say that Isabel has none. I think she just keeps them in check..."
And that's what a lady does -- keeps them in check? Or is the portrait sardonic?
(What, if anything, does Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray (1890-'91) owe to PoaL, published 1880-'81, revised in 1908? I wonder if any scholar has looked at the relationship of these two novels and whether there is evidence of textual inter-relationships.)
James is said to have learned 'the use of the Gothic' from Wilde (whom James did not like) and I came across this about The Turn of the Screw:'Miles is a literary milestone, as is his sister, Flora, in that they mark a most distinguished beginning to the tradition of the sexual child as gothic conundrum in the English novel. The Turn of the Screw is indeed "the first occurrence of its charming kind that I know to have been concerned with a child"' (E Hanson).
I think I see Pansy too as a sexual child, sexualised and infantalised by her father. Are there other gothic elements in Poal? The Villa il Tatti was certainly gothic and may have inspired James flights of fancy in this regard. I can see the gothic in Madame Merle, with her looming, ominous presence.
There is homoeroticism in James' portrayal of Ralph and that could be likened to Dorian Gray.
James met Wilde, saw several of his plays and was in London at the time of Wilde's trial and imprisonment which, of course, worried the homosexual fraternity.
That's an interesting view, Madge. Certainly Pansy is infantilised and very passive, and is encouraged to remain so by her father. He sees her attributes largely in terms of obedience and appearance, which would imply he's thinking of her marriageability; although she seems too immature to be on the marriage market yet. You could see this as slightly sinister.I also sympathise with Jeremy and others about Isabel's character. In some ways it's as unformed as Pansy's. Isabel still doesn't appear to know what to do with her life and her fortune other than travel, look around her and passively absorb rather than actually study (eg in St Peter's in Rome she's simply soaking up the atmosphere in a reverie.) It's not clear what she thinks makes life worth living.
Maybe she's attracted to Osmond because he is a keeper of high art and knowledge who she thinks will provide her with some sort of key. And of course he won't importune her with passion like Goodwood.
'...a keeper of high art and knowledge', like Casabon in Middlemarch, who attracted Dorothea. Yes, Osmond is that too.Perhaps a way to independence if you can't have a career is to have a passionless marriage and Isabel is attracted to that.
Robin wrote: "Throughout this book I've felt that James spends a lot of words describing characters and their feelings, without explaining them to us at all. It's almost like all the words are a smokescreen hiding them further. Or maybe he's saying that none of us know ourselves what our motivations are. "
Insightful observation. I thought we were only dealing with James's dense style, but maybe the language serves another purpose as well.
Perhaps James has absorbed some of his brother's writing on psychology and he is, in effect, psychoanalysing his characters, plumbing their depths.
Robin wrote: "Throughout this book I've felt that James spends a lot of words describing characters and their feelings, without explaining them to us at all. It's almost like all the words are a smokescreen hiding them further. Or maybe he's saying that none of us know ourselves what our motivations are. ..."
Yes, that's a good point. James is at pains to portray characters' thoughts and feelings in great detail - yet we're left with no more idea of what Isabel is going to do than she has herself. I think you're right, that despite all her pondering she's still in the dark about what she really wants from life or why she acts as she does.
I think Ralph knows his own motivation though... or does he?
Moved this original msg into msg 51, because did not want that msg as originally composed to start a new page of discussion.
The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
The Picture of Dorian Gray (other topics)The Wings of the Dove (other topics)
The Ambassadors (other topics)
The Golden Bowl (other topics)
Gone Girl (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Oscar Wilde (other topics)Elizabeth Gaskell (other topics)
Gillian Flynn (other topics)
I'll have to save my comments for tomorrow - I left my book and notes at work - but thread is open now and no one has to wait on me.