Reading the Chunksters discussion
Archived 2015 Group Reads
>
Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace, WEEK 4
Sounds stressful Zulfiya! Hope you will be settled soon...don't worry about us; this section was a doozy so I think we'll have plenty to discuss even without questions :)I will definitely post more later tonight -- I am still a couple of pages from the end of the section. But wow, we have learned MUCH about the Incandenza family's history here, as well as about the folks at Ennet House.
Joelle's story is riveting. The concept of "the Entertainment" seemed almost farcical before, but learning of Joelle's part has cast it in a dark and disturbing light.
Orin has seemed like a side character up until now, but it looks like he had and/or will have a major part to play. I wonder if the Incandenzas at E.T.A. are aware of Madame Psychosis' identity as they listen to her show? I imagine they must be, but we still have to learn their feelings about it.
I have to go back and check the dates again, but it seems like the date that Hal and Pemulis have in mind to consume the DMZ may coincide with Hal's interview in the Year of Glad? I know that they said they were going to consume it the week after the end of the Fiscal Year, maybe the Subsidized calendar goes by the Fiscal year?
I laughed out loud when I saw what the infamous page 223 contained. I was figuring that all out myself anyway, NOW he's going to make it easy for us? haha!
It is great to see all of the characters we've met so randomly, now coming together at Ennet house! It's like a reunion :) I think Poor Tony and Wardine still seem to be missing, though. And I am glad to see Don Gately is in a better place in life.
Anyway I will finish up the section tonight and hopefully have some more fleshed-out thoughts!
I am only halfway done with this section - had family visiting for a few days which threw off my reading. Nothing like moving, though! I hope to finish in the next day or two.
John wrote: "I laughed out loud when I saw what the infamous page 223 contained. I was figuring that all out myself anyway, NOW he's going to make it easy for us? haha!"No kidding, right?!! ha ha! And it's funny how it's just randomly stuck in that place, for no apparent reason. Well, now I can see I made a couple of mistakes. There are 9 subsidized years, I had written down 8. I missed the Year of the Whisper-Quiet Maytag Dishmaster, unless we haven't come to it in the text yet. And I also had Year of Dairy Products from the American Heartland and Year of the Yushityu 2007 Mimetic-Resolution-Cartridge interchanged.
Linda, I think your reckoning of the years was the same as mine :)One of Joelle's final thoughts before the overdose was something about "someone at the academy had something to do with a traffic helicopter that was in an accident". Did anybody else notice that? Did it mean anything to anyone?
It seems as if she probably survived, as there was someone right outside the bathroom. Maybe she'll end up at Ennet House?
Oh! One thing I don't think we've mentioned yet, just popped into my head: What is the deal with Lyle?? He sits in the weight room and subsists only on the students' sweat? This is one of the most bizarre things in the book so far.
I just finished reading this week's section last night. Hopefully I will get some time to post at leisure tomorrow - there is so much going on!Yes, Lyle's gig was super strange. Not sure what's going on there or what the sweat thing is all about.
I made note of the helicopter thing when I read it, but it didn't trigger anything that I had already read so far. I bet we will be let in on what's going on sometime in the near future. Hopefully. :)
And yes, Ennet House did seem like a reunion! I was thinking, "hey, I KNOW these people!". ha ha. Tiny Ewell's preoccupation with everyone's tattoos was funny. John - while getting to know Tiny a bit more, I wondered if you had come up with an actor to cast him yet?
It seems the weekend Hal and Pemulis have in mind to take the DMZ is Nov 20-21, and wouldn't that be in YDAU? Hal's interview occurred in YG, and I'm assuming in the spring time? I could be wrong, though.
I hope Joelle survives, she would be an interesting addition to Ennet House.
I'm pretty sure Hal's interview was in the fall, as it was during or immediately before the Whataburger Invitational, which occurs on Thanksgiving weekend.My thought, when the book mentioned the "End of Fiscal Year Fundraising Exhibition" was that maybe the subsidized year designation changed with the end of the Fiscal year (which in the US is Sept. 30, but might be different for O.N.A.N.). So, let's say the O.N.A.N. Fiscal year ends on Nov. 15, then the DMZ consumption would be in the Year of Glad.
Anyway, I have actually abandoned that theory now as it still does not really line up even if you assume the Fiscal Year thing is right. My new theory is that the DMZ consumtion will be the "previous trip to the emergency room exactly one year ago" that Hal mentions in the beginning of the book.
I have been meaning to update the casting list, I have a few more ideas! :) I will do that later tonight.
John wrote: "I'm pretty sure Hal's interview was in the fall, as it was during or immediately before the Whataburger Invitational, which occurs on Thanksgiving weekend."Ahh...you're way ahead of me on this, John! I flipped back to the interview and noticed the Whataburger Invitational, but the time frame didn't click.
I don't remember the "End of Fiscal Year Fundraising Exhibition" reference, but that makes sense they would start and end the years when the corporations darn-well please.
I also like your new theory, and am actually on board with that one now. It would be a nice way to start picking up these billion threads that DFW has laid down so far.
OH! And I meant to ask. What did you think of Joelle's veil, and how she is a supposed member of the U.H.I.D. (Union of the Hideously and Improbably Deformed) - and thus the veil to hide her deformities (I'm assuming that's what it's for). But then at the end of the drug scene where she takes off her veil, she is revealed to be too pretty for words, maybe the Prettiest Girl Of All Time. So which is she? Deformed or not? Or somehow deformed, but in a way that makes her pretty? It was a glaring contradiction. And so....now the question is, who is cast in Joelle's role?!
I think the "pretty" self-descriptions were Joelle's way of being sardonic.Towards the beginning of her narrative, she described Orin as the "Acid-dodger". So I'm guessing there was some incident where the two of them were attacked with acid and he escaped.
So, what we know so far is that we have a film of a horribly deformed young woman, apparently giving a monologue in which she apologizes for something. And this video gives people such pleasure that they are rendered catatonic by it.We still have much to learn, but this prospect makes DFW's view of humanity seem pretty bleak to say the least.
I keep trying to draw parallels to Cage III - Free Show. The video's viewers are the people turning into eyeballs, but does that mean Joelle is the one coming in the other end, consenting to horrible pain in order to watch the viewers turn into eyeballs?
I'm currently thinking Scarlett Johannsen as Joelle -- that's just my first impression though. :)
John wrote: "Towards the beginning of her narrative, she described Orin as the "Acid-dodger". So I'm guessing there was some incident where the two of them were attacked with acid and he escaped."I see. I had taken "acid-dodger" as meaning that Orin refused to drop acid. But an actual acid attack is a totally different meaning.
John wrote: "So, what we know so far is that we have a film of a horribly deformed young woman, apparently giving a monologue in which she apologizes for something. And this video gives people such pleasure tha..."Very nice summary of the film so far, John. Scarlett Johannsen? Perfect. :)
Linda wrote: "I had taken "acid-dodger" as meaning that Orin refused to drop acid. But an actual acid attack is a totally different meaning. "Hmm, that's a possibility too - we'll have to wait and see. In any case, though, I think she is actually deformed.
John wrote: "I'm currently thinking Scarlett Johannsen as Joelle -- that's just my first impression though. :) "She has that smokey sultry voice that I can totally imagine her entrancing people with over the airwaves.
John wrote: "Towards the beginning of her narrative, she described Orin as the "Acid-dodger". So I'm guessing there was some incident where the two of them were attacked with acid and he escaped."That makes a lot of sense to me!
I loved the part in this section where somebody (who?) lists all the things you learn in rehab. Some very funny stuff there.
I thought I noticed a slightly different narrative style in that section and also in the footnotes, with more use of "like" (in the sense in which like young people today don't seem to be able to say like a single sentence without using it like three times or more)...
John wrote: "One of Joelle's final thoughts before the overdose was something about "someone at the academy had something to do with a traffic helicopter that was in an accident". Did anybody else notice that? Did it mean anything to anyone?"I didn't pick that up. Well spotted. Sounds like something that's definitely going to pop up again.
John wrote: "It seems as if she probably survived, as there was someone right outside the bathroom."
I was assuming she was successful, and I was sad for Mario. He loves her radio show so much. So I hope you are right.
Rosemary wrote: "I thought I noticed a slightly different narrative style in that section and also in the footnotes, with more use of 'like'"I have noticed this too! I have kind of gotten the feeling like these are sections where DFW is speaking directly to us without narrative -- I have not gone back to look over those parts again, though, so I don't have anything to substantiate that.
I have added Poor Tony, Lyle, Tiny Elwell, and Joelle to my casting list -- and I have a new actress for Kate Gompert.I'm having a lot of trouble casting Pemulis, because when I was in college I knew a guy who was JUST like him, so I keep picturing that guy :D
I set it up so that anyone with this link can make comments on the document, please feel free to make suggestions if you like :)
John wrote: "Linda wrote: "I had taken "acid-dodger" as meaning that Orin refused to drop acid. But an actual acid attack is a totally different meaning. "Hmm, that's a possibility too - we'll have to wait an..."
I went back to reread this and it actually said "dodger of flung acid extraordinaire", so I had missperceived what this meant.
Rosemary wrote: "I loved the part in this section where somebody (who?) lists all the things you learn in rehab. Some very funny stuff there."I think this was my favorite section of this week's reading. So many random mundane observations mixed in with profound reflections.
Oh yeah, I forgot the "flung" part - that definitely makes it pretty clear. I wonder if Orin left her because he couldn't handle the guilt of not getting hit, or because he was too shallow to see past her scars? Or a combination of both?In any case, it definitely helps to explain his current dysfunctional view on relationships.
Can somebody tell me where this section ends? I'd like to catch up if I can.
Kasra wrote: "Can somebody tell me where this section ends? I'd like to catch up if I can."Week 4 goes halfway through page 242. The start of Week 5 is the chapter titled "5 November - Year of the Depend Adult Undergarment" which begins on page 242.
Kasra, I think the section ends on page 241 -- it's right after a passage that describes the layout of Enfield.
John wrote: "I'm having a lot of trouble casting Pemulis, because when I was in college I knew a guy who was JUST like him, so I keep picturing that guy :D "Does he have Facebook? ;-)
...Haha, all right, now I found the perfect Pemulis :D He's an actor names Alexander Arnold. That photo is pretty much exactly how I imagine the Peemster.
John wrote: "...Haha, all right, now I found the perfect Pemulis :D He's an actor names Alexander Arnold. That photo is pretty much exactly how I imagine the Peemster."HA! Thumbs up, John! He's how I have been picturing him too. :D
Linda wrote: "John wrote: "I laughed out loud when I saw what the infamous page 223 contained. I was figuring that all out myself anyway, NOW he's going to make it easy for us? haha!"No kidding, right?!! ha h..."
Linda wrote: "I just finished reading this week's section last night. Hopefully I will get some time to post at leisure tomorrow - there is so much going on!
Yes, Lyle's gig was super strange. Not sure what's..."
I asked about Lyle, specifically, the last couple of sentences in his section in W3's thread... I didn't understand it very well at the time and still don't fully. He wears a shirt that says "transcend" on the front and "deus providebit" (god will provide) on the back (128); so maybe he "has" done just this...Transcended? Yogis, for instance, can reach levels of meditative states so deep and strong, they do not need much else to sustain life; other than the ability to live on belief-I'm not saying he's a yogi, I think he's somebody who is very proficient in something. Now how E.T.A. allows him to conduct himself in the manner he does, in a school weight room...Well, you're guess is as good as mine. I think Lyle is as enigmatic as they come.
I missed the Year of the Whisper-Quiet Maytag Dishmaster, unless we haven't come to it in the text yet.
You didn't miss it, it was just briefly mentioned in Footnote 304...Jim Stuck's plagiarized essay backstory on the "wheelchair assassins."
Ennet House Transcripts
Some of these were especially entertaining. Transcripts about the defensive lawyer in denial about his alcoholism, another Tommy Doocey connection via Bruce Green and the Mildred Bonk tie-in were great, but my favorite was about the person who was asked to pray for relief from alcoholism...
I dismantle my life and career and enter 9 months of low-income treatment for a 'disease,' and I'm prescribed prayer? Does the word 'retrograde' signify (there's my word "retrograde" again) (180)?
I thought their response was very thought provoking. There's a running commonality in many segments, so far, where the idea of believing in something bigger than oneself to achieve a desire outcome is readily conveyed; and it's not always in reference to a GOD, per se.
Madam Psychosis Introduction
We've read quite a few sections written phonetically; but the scene describing the Those Were the Legends That Formerly Were segment, by a student impersonating a cartoon character with a speech impediment was by far the most difficult to read for me...Go figure?! The whole premise, considered to be a drama-therapy-type catharsis-op for those who carry psychic scars, was quite humorous as it played out...I would much rather listen to it than the Madame Psychosis show, any day.
The Madam Psychosis character, as she has come to fruition in this week's reading, wasn't what I was expecting her to be at all...I was really disappointed, actually. When we first hear about her she's intriguing, speaks with a sultry voice, has one of the most popular radio shows in syndicate, discusses obscure subject matters on the show, has a unironic but generally gloomy outlook on the universe but projects beauty and light over the air, and what makes her most interesting is that Mario* loves listening to her radio show...He listens to it religiously (190).
I was under the impression she would be older, more mature and non-relatable because of this mysterious air surrounding her. However, when we find out who she really is, it turns out she's completely identifiable, no different from the majority of the characters we've encountered...Another drug addict probably on her way to Ennet House. Her crack riddled plight read like Erdeddy's section jonesing for high-resin pot...Maybe that's why my impression of her took a turn for the worse, I was not fond of Erdeddy's piece at all.
In spite of my dislike for Madame Psychosis currently, there were some great moments in her segments:
For example, in what seemed to be a stream of consciousness during her show...
He liked that sort of dreamy, dreaming music that had the rhythm of long things swinging...
The Dow that can be told is not the eternal Dow...
Attractive paraplegic female seeks same; object...
Like most marriages, theirs was the evolved product of concordance and compromise.(183)
She begins by talking about the musical tastes of a man, to the incapability of knowing everything, then back to the UHID and then directly into the dynamics of a marriage between two people.
What I found interesting about this segment was the intermingling of another narrator, maybe Mario, and the direct glimpse into the marriage of concordance and compromise between Avril and the late James Incandenza (187). M. Psychosis' words are mesmerizing to Mario as he hangs on them and reapplies to descriptions of his own. Although we knew, from a previous section, their marriage wasn't the most traditional, this play between M. Psychosis and narrator further binds the true dynamics between Avril and the late James.
There was something peculiar about the word periodic and how it randomly came to Mario which he then utilizes to describe the background music of the radio show...It was random, I remember.
*I love Mario, he's one of the most riveting characters in this novel, and anything that makes him tick, I am impelled to find out why.
Ami wrote: "The Madam Psychosis character...wasn't what I was expecting her to be at all...I was really disappointed, actually. When we first hear about her she's intriguing, speaks with a sultry voice, has one of the most popular radio shows in syndicate.....However, when we find out who she really is, it turns out she's completely identifiable, no different from the majority of the characters we've encountered..."I think this is a perfect example of how, in general, we tend to perceive others as they want us to see them. People have an exterior that they maintain when they go out in public or are around family and friends, this "keeping up appearances". So family, friends and others may have an idea of what this person is really about just based upon how this person portrays herself. In this case - Madame P. is perceived as enigmatic, beautiful, all-knowing, and thus probably unapproachable. But in reality, she is just "one of us" - a regular person who has real problems, interior dilemmas, unhappiness, and who is doubtful and has real fears. I was actually relieved when the real Madame P. was described. I feared that she WAS this larger-than-life personality who might be perfect and could have this mesmerizing effect on everyone around her. But to find out that she has issues just like everyone else was reassuring.
I think her example shows how even the most perfect put-together person may have deep issues and conflict that may be only known if you really take the time to get to know that person on the inside.
Linda wrote: "John wrote: "I'm currently thinking Scarlett Johannsen as Joelle -- that's just my first impression though. :) "She has that smokey sultry voice that I can totally imagine her entrancing people w..."
"Smokey" being the operative word :)... I attributed her voice to the multiple years of crack smoking, it'll do that to you!
I actually liked how Mario describes her voice as sparely modulated and strangely empty, as if she were speaking from inside a small box... (189).
I loved the significance of the music on her show too, the narrator on page 190 describes it as unpredictable, but... overtime a pattern emerges...Tonights background fits, somehow, as she reads...The thing it makes you see as she reads is something heavy swinging slowly at the end of a long rope. It gave me a sense of impending doom, only to find Joelle van Dyne at the end of her rope and preparing to hang from it a month and three days after the show aired (219).
I love how DFW continues to describe the duality of addiction in such extremes; taking into account both the beautiful and romantic relationship one can have with an addiction and the ugly tragic side of it too. He does this again with Madam Psychosis/Joelle and the incident with the caller as he's previously done with Mario Incandenza Sr., Kate Gompert and a few others.
One particular caller with a cultured stutter says the moon remains ...hidden and disclosed by our round shadow's rhythms, but never revolving. That it never turns its face away (192). Joelle later makes reference to the caller's moon theory, on page 222, relating it to her crack addiction. She finds herself in this current predicament where she didn't love it anymore she hated it and she wanted to stop, but couldn't imagine stopping or living without it-She is the moon who revolves and yet not- She cannot face away from her situation (222). The binary depictions between: the moon, both revolving and yet stagnant; romance with addiction and tragedy with addiction; wanting to quit, but unable to live without it; loving it and hating it...Is this how you understood it?
Then there's the aspect of the maddening euphoria Wallace goes on to describe Joelle enduring, after the long self-involved soliloquy, crying while smoking scraps and bits of things laden with resin and acetate (220 & 223). The sense of desperation and agitation was overwhelming, but just so damn poingnant at the same time! It makes you want to scream... Well, it did me.
P.S. In light of page 223, Chronology of Subsidized Time, I don't think JOI can be Tiny Ewell's roommate any longer as per a thought I had in W2's thread...For obvious reasons. LoL!
Linda wrote: "I think her example shows how even the most perfect put-together person may have deep issues and conflict that may be only known if you really take the time to get to know that person on the inside. "I agree 100%! Your whole post was great, actually.
I also was not disappointed with Madame Psychosis's real identity. Like Linda, I would equate that to idolizing a celebrity only to meet them and find out they are real people that also have faults. In fact, I tend to look for what makes people real and during the radio show segment, was more daydreaming about who she might be and how she might come into play in the book in a more real sense and not as a bigger-than-life character. I was assuming she'd end up at Ennet and tie some things together.
Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "The Madam Psychosis character...wasn't what I was expecting her to be at all...I was really disappointed, actually. When we first hear about her she's intriguing, speaks with a sultry v..."I was actually relieved when the real Madame P. was described. I feared that she WAS this larger-than-life personality who might be perfect and could have this mesmerizing effect on everyone around her.
Oh how interesting...Were you concerned about the magnitude of her "mesmerizing effect on everyone around her" and the repercussions of it on those who listened to her...As in she is the drug/entertainment for these listeners and the detrimental effects she could have on them? Am I understanding you correctly?
I was really hoping she would be the one character in this book besides Mario (so far as I can see), that was able to rise above the commonalities between the majority of these characters..I wanted her to be an outlier, a breath of fresh air. :)
Ami wrote: "Were you concerned about the magnitude of her "mesmerizing effect on everyone around her" and the repercussions of it on those who listened to her...As in she is the drug/entertainment for these listeners and the detrimental effects she could have on them? Am I understanding you correctly?"I do think she has this celebrity-like status, like Kaycie pointed out. That is what I think I meant by "mesmerizing", but also simply by the soothing and poetic quality of her voice and show itself. So, although I didn't quite think about the "drug/entertainment" aspect and potential "detrimental effects" that she could have on them at the time, I think you make a good connection here, Ami. I mean, wasn't it pointed out that Mario always had to listen to her program and basically was in his own world while listening, not participating in the family dinner conversation at all? He was removed from the family while the show was on.
Linda wrote: "I just finished reading this week's section last night. Hopefully I will get some time to post at leisure tomorrow - there is so much going on!Yes, Lyle's gig was super strange. Not sure what's..."
DMZ Plotting 211-218
I don't think Pemulis and Hal drop DMZ any time around the UA interview because they haven't taken their boards, scheduled 12/12 (218). Hal would have to have taken these in the YDAU before the interview in YoG...Yes?
Also, Axford's account of a meninges-withering hangover from LSD was spot on and comparable to what I've read about it. Axford described it as leaving you the next day not just sick or down but utterly empty, a shell, void inside, like your should was a wrung-outsponge (218). Granted, they are talking about LSD, which is less potent than DMZ, but the aftermath of tripping on LSD doesn't seem like much of a picnic.
Now Hal, on the other hand, disagrees with Axford's description; instead
saying ...the dawn seemed to confer on his psyche a kind of pale sweet aura, a luminescence after a night of hallucinogens (218). I find this odd because LSD essentially kicks up the production of Serotonin (naturally produced neurotransmitter) giving you that sense of euphoria because all the channels of communication within the brain are completely open. After a trip, it technically takes 1-2 weeks for your brain to recover, begin producing, and maintaining regular serotonin production. Now for a lot of people, taking LSD can be a very enlightening experience, but it comes to an end and abruptly rather. Hal, alternatively, continues to feel his mind broadening...He's not emotionally debilitated.
Joelle and Lady DelphinaFrom what I understand, Joelle bought and overpaid the Lady, for four 4g bags of pharmaceutical-grade cocaine (236). But according to Yrslf, Delphina's stash was bunk because it was cut with quinine and manitol (131). So, let's just say, I don't think Joelle will be turning off her lights on life smoking the current stash.
Ami wrote: "From what I understand, Joelle bought and overpaid the Lady, for four 4g bags of pharmaceutical-grade cocaine (236). But according to Yrslf, Delphina's stash was bunk because it was cut with quinine and manitol (131). So, let's just say, I don't think Joelle will be turning off her lights on life smoking the current stash."Ooh, very nice sleuthing there, Ami!!
Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "Were you concerned about the magnitude of her "mesmerizing effect on everyone around her" and the repercussions of it on those who listened to her...As in she is the drug/entertainment ..."Okay, I understand what you meant clearly now. My thoughts were based on the initial impression she left me with alongside the fervent esteem Mario held her in. In spite of her doom and gloom, she projected beauty and light over the air...M. Psychosis definitely has a way about her. I personally didn't put her up on a pedestal, or consider her perfect, by any means, I just thought she would have been a little different than the rest...Somebody not plagued by vices.
John wrote: "So, what we know so far is that we have a film of a horribly deformed young woman, apparently giving a monologue in which she apologizes for something. And this video gives people such pleasure tha..."I actually watched the original movie "The Cage," by Sidney Peterson during W2's reading. It was referenced in the filmography footnote 24-definitley worth watching, if you already have not. It's only 25min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5mHO9...
Ami wrote: "In spite of her doom and gloom, she projected beauty and light over the air...M. Psychosis definitely has a way about her. I personally didn't put her up on a pedestal, or consider her perfect, by any means..."Yeah, that's what I meant, but you said it much more eloquently. :)
When I described her as "perfect", I meant to her listeners or others who knew her in person. But I get what you're saying about expecting something different. In reality, I was expecting something other than what she turned out to be.
Ami wrote: "I actually watched the original movie "The Cage," by Sidney Peterson during W2's reading."Thanks for the link! I will try to watch it this weekend.
Personally, to me, the narrative at this point still looks very incoherent and confusing. There are some teeny tiny, slightly traceable lines and clues that crisscross the fabric, but they are too thin to qualify then as the plot hooks. I actually did notice the mention of the helicopter, but so far nothing actually happened in the novel that would have indicated that reference. Maybe we still will have to read a little bit further.
On the other hand, Joelle came across a wheel-chaired man without legs who is obviously Marathe.
I am also intrigued by her deformity if there is any.
The part I enjoyed most is the description of different tattoos, their quality, meaninglessness and even inability to recall the occasion when and why a certain tattoe was obtained.
Has anyone noticed the cross-reference to the title of the novel, when James Incandenza was named 'The Infinite Jim'? In the beginning, it seems like the novel is mostly about his children, but the more I read, the more important the event of his life and even the most preposterous death seems to be.
Oh, how do you like Avril's words:'Do not, under any circumstances, have fun'. I personally think it was mean but hilarious and 'clutch-your-stomach funny', and who knows what fun she meant. It might be that dangerous fun that led people to Ennet House Drug and Alcohol Recovery House.
The sad thing about this part is that D.F.Wallace inadvertently 'alluded' to his future death when he hanged himself. 'Joelle, at the end of her rope and preparing to hang from it, listening, is supported by a polished hardwood floor above both river and Bay's edge, ...'
Zulfiya wrote: "Personally, to me, the narrative at this point still looks very incoherent and confusing. There are some teeny tiny, slightly traceable lines and clues that crisscross the fabric, but they are too ..."On the other hand, Joelle came across a wheel-chaired man without legs who is obviously Marathe.
The wheel chair assassins are all over the Boston area, why does this one "obviously" have to be Marathe...I must have overlooked Marathe's details because this man is described as having a "puffed red cut across that businesslike palm" (222)? It probably is Marathe, I was wondering what led you to believe it "obviously" was.
The part I enjoyed most were all the practical jokes Gately and others played on everybody during his residency at Ennet House... False closing sign on methadone clinic thus creating a crazed riot; the "Help Wanted" sign posted underneath the window of the "retired shrieking Air Force nurse. They were hilarious!
The sad thing about this part is that D.F.Wallace inadvertently 'alluded' to his future death when he hanged himself. 'Joelle, at the end of her rope and preparing to hang from it, listening, is supported by a polished hardwood floor above both river and Bay's edge, ...'
Yes, seems to be an ongoing theme...Lots of suicide and references to a self inflicted death by hanging. It's heavy stuff.
Ami wrote: "The wheel chair assassins are all over the Boston area, why does this one "obviously" have to be Marathe...I must have overlooked Marathe's details because this man is described as having a "puffed red cut across that businesslike palm" (222)? It probably is Marathe, I was wondering what led you to believe it "obviously" was."Well, nothing is accidental in this book, so I thought it was safe to assume that it was him. Besides, I think it was mentioned somewhere that he was a double amputee. Correct me if I am wrong - I am staying with my in-laws this weekend, so the book is not with me tonight.
Zulfiya wrote: "Ami wrote: "The wheel chair assassins are all over the Boston area, why does this one "obviously" have to be Marathe...I must have overlooked Marathe's details because this man is described as havi..."If it's the reference on page 222, it doesn't say anything about him being a double amputee-this is the man JvD gives a U.S. $20 bill to before she buys the .473 liter of Pepsi.
Thank you, Ami. I will come home and check. I definitely remember the feeling of cross reference in this part of the novel, which is still very true, but the plot lines start converging, and some of references are more important than others. Sometimes, I think we might be looking for something that is not there :-) I bet it was intentional.
Zulfiya wrote: "Thank you, Ami. I will come home and check. I definitely remember the feeling of cross reference in this part of the novel, which is still very true, but the plot lines start converging, and some o..."No problem. I think it would be great if the plot lines further converged here. When you get a chance...Absolutely.
I've just started reading this section on the train on the way home and choked and snorted through the bit with Dr Pat in the drug rehabilitation center; the un nurtured adict who had their hand stabbed to the table with a fork, the lawyer who demanded the definition of alcoholic, the un-flusable turd, the pudding stealer. This book is hilarious!
Nicola wrote: "I've just started reading this section on the train on the way home and choked and snorted through the bit with Dr Pat in the drug rehabilitation center; the un nurtured adict who had their hand st..."Ha ha! I know, this section is great! It's one I need to bookmark so I can easily go back to and reread.
So I am posting this thread without questions and I will be back on Friday - Saturday. My books are in the new home, and my furniture is in the old one, and I carry the copy of IJ with me, but this week was the craziest. Tomorrow is the big day when the furniture is transferred to our new home.
I even cancelled classes tomorrow and on Thursday. Too many things happening at the same time, and I can hardly keep up with anything, but I promise to be back on Thursday or Friday with comments or questions. I thought I was a tough cookie, but right now I am a melt, but I promise to gel again and quickly.
So post away or actually if you have questions for discussion, feel free to post them.