Dostoyevsky, Fyodor- Crime and Punishment "Relaxed Buddy Read"; Start date November 12, 2014***REVISIT starts September 15, 2018****REVISIT starts November 15, 2018***Revist starts January 10, 2019

[Srividya]

@Karen - you are racing ahead! *runs faster with the hope of catching up* ;)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

lol

well I have finished, and I'll just leave my thoughts about Part 6 at the moment and the Epilogue in the morning when I have time...

Part 6

Wow. (view spoiler)[ Isn't Svidrigailov a piece of work. I thought he was bad before, but this just took the cake with the 16 year old wife, his dream that was suggested he was a paedophile and then trapping the sister like that. I did think something awful was going to happen there, and I was very glad of the outcome.
I find it interesting that our main protagonist was a cold blooded killer and yet I didn't feel as much distain towards him....

I guess I always knew he would own up to what he did, but I was surprised that he felt the need to tell the truth about the deed, but not about what drove him to it. It actually made me chuckle that he was found to have suffered mental insanity. (hide spoiler)]

More thoughts tomorrow on the Epilogue and overall thoughts on the book....

[Margaret]

Karen wrote: "lol

well I have finished, and I'll just leave my thoughts about Part 6 at the moment and the Epilogue in the morning when I have time...

Part 6

Wow. Isn't Svidrigailov a piece of work. I though..."


Wow! You ripped right through it! Bravo! I can't wait to hear what you think of it. (view spoiler)[I think his fessing up had to do with his extreme guilt. Interesting how we are dropped smack dab in the middle of this mental illness and plans to murder the pawn lady. No mention as to why or wherefore, but that doesn't bother me though. I have read a few books analyzing C & P and boy it is mind boggling with all the meanings and metaphors. Can't wait to hear your final thoughts on the book (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

How are folks coming along? I am just at 45% done and loving it (again!) I am amazed how the book is even better the second time around. I suggest that if you really love this book, is to read it again within a year or so, it is worth it.

[Sarah]

I hope to start tomorrow. I am kind of clearing my other reads out for this one.

[Margaret]

Oh good! I was wondering where you were, hey, I understand, I am starting two more BRs today! oh my, I have two other books that I have had to put aside. I rather rack up the points with the BRs. As you personally pop in with your thoughts, I'll join right in even though I'll be ahead of you. I'm sure that others will discuss with you as well. I love discussing books and esp. C & P. :)

[Amanda]

Margaret wrote: "How are folks coming along? I am just at 45% done and loving it (again!) I am amazed how the book is even better the second time around. I suggest that if you really love this book, is to read it a..."

I think I'm a little behind you. I just got to the point we were talking about on the phone:
(view spoiler)[
Raskolnikov just finished talking to the investigator when they went to his house and he was thinking "did he just wink at me?" Oh man...the narrator did such an amazing job at that section. It gave me chills.
And then the investigator brings up the article he had written about how extraordinary men can commit crimes! I thought it was over then. They must know! lol That's probably exactly what Raskolnikov was thinking. (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

Oh man (view spoiler)[I love how the scene and people seem to "whirl" around Raskolnikov and I think the reader actually feels like being sectioned off with him in a type of psyche corner observing and thinking with the same paranoia....weird! "Did he just wink at me??? I love it! I agree, I love the narration....don't tell the Overdrive but I just might keep it on longer than I am suppose to. shhhhh (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Ok, I've changed my rating to 5 stars. And for those who know me, that is pretty unusual. Actually this is my 3rd 5 star books this year (out of 120)

My review:
The best "Classic" I have read in a very long time. The book was originally released in serial form and this is clear as you read it because there are so many cliff-hangers! For such a big book it is full of tension and suspense that is able to be maintained throughout and the reader's emotions, morals and thoughts are continually questioned by the incredibly complex characters Dostoyevsky created.
I really loved so much about this book and I'm glad I was convinced to read it as part of a this buddy read as otherwise I may never have picked it up.

About the Epilogue(view spoiler)[
I keep re-reading the last paragraph. What a way to end. I like that we got these snippets into life after he was sent to Siberia and a hint of a good life to come.
Do we think he is really going to leave a good life? Can you murder 2 people with an axe and be reformed? (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

Karen wrote: "Ok, I've changed my rating to 5 stars. And for those who know me, that is pretty unusual. Actually this is my 3rd 5 star books this year (out of 120)

My review:
The best "Classic" I have read in a..."

Wow, that's great Karen.
Sometimes I give 5 stars out too lightly and then later when I finish an amazing book I have to go through and give my other books one less star :).

[Amanda]

I'm finally getting back to this one. I don't get much time to read during the weekends when my husband is home all day.
I'm a little more than halfway through now.
(view spoiler)[
I'm trying to figure out if this man who appeared in Raskolnikov's bedroom (his sister's former employer) is a figment of his imagination or not. It has that strange quality of a fever dream, similar to his dream about the old woman laughing at him as he tries to kill her. (hide spoiler)]

[Srividya]

Oh I am really lagging on this one again! But I couldn't put down Crossing Places yesterday so had to finish that. Anyway that's over now and I can concentrate on this one.

Am still at the end of Part 2! :( Hope to race through it today and put up some of my thoughts as I finish.

[Margaret]

Karen wrote: "Ok, I've changed my rating to 5 stars. And for those who know me, that is pretty unusual. Actually this is my 3rd 5 star books this year (out of 120)

My review:
The best "Classic" I have read in a..."


Karen I am so glad to hear that you liked it and you gave it 5 stars! Actually I feel that this is one of my most favorite if not THE most favorite book of mine. I need to go check out your book shelves and scour for good ones :) so (view spoiler)[you know I had someone say that the ending was idealistic and I say perhaps but it is interesting that for someone who spent 8 years in Siberia with hardened criminals, he was able to write with such an optimistic viewpoint. I think that was something out of my realm of understanding, who knows? perhaps our axe murderer might have a turn about. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Amanda wrote: " Sometimes I give 5 stars out too lightly and then later when I finish an amazing book I have to go through and give my other books one less star :). ..."

Haha
Well that was what made me bump it up. When I thought about other 4 star books I have read they really couldn't compare to this so therefore it had to be 5!

[Srividya]

Part 2

(view spoiler)["Go in pursuit of several hares at once, and you will not secure a single one." - Ohh why does it feel as if the author is trying to tell me about the foolishness of doing multiple BRs simultaneously! Lol. I am feeling the pressure here and such words don't help.

On another note, a serious one at that - truer words haven't been said. Isn't it what we do in life? We try to do so many things at once, wanting to excel in everything that somehow we forget that we are human and it is okay not to excel in everything but simply be happy at having attempted different things? At least that is what I got from this one and the discussion.

What do you people think of Raskolnikov's reaction to Petrovich? I found it rude but then Raskolnikov had decided that his sister was marrying Petrovich under duress and as a martyr. Doesn't Petrovich come across as someone really snooty and a big know- it all.. I wonder whether he will come back in the story and am curious to see how his character will be developed, if he does!

Razumikhin seems so over enthusiastic and really tiresome! I mean why must he have an opinion on everything and everyone? (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Srividya wrote: "Part 2

"Go in pursuit of several hares at once, and you will not secure a single one." - Ohh why does it feel as if the author is trying to tell me about the foolishness of doing multiple BRs simu..."

Lol! Yes your interpretation is a good one, it reminds me if that saying "Jack of all trades and master of none".

I quite liked Razumikhin, although I see what you're saying. For me he was a bit of an antidote to the story to show that the main protagonist actually had a loving family and at least one very close friend, which is not what people would usually assume for a premeditated murderer

[Margaret]

Srividya wrote: "Part 2

"Go in pursuit of several hares at once, and you will not secure a single one." - Ohh why does it feel as if the author is trying to tell me about the foolishness of doing multiple BRs simu..."


Srividya...good discussion! (view spoiler)[I love your comments correlating that sentence about the hares and your dilemma with stacking up the BRs! love it. I think that Raskolnikov's reaction to Petrovich has something to do with his projecting his own sense of guilt and dislike for himself off onto Petrovich. His sister playing the martyr is the opposite of his selfishness and I think this drives him deeper into guilt perhaps? I read somewhere in an analysis of the book that his anger towards Petrovich is because of incestuous feelings towards his sister. I personally disagree. Razumikhin I think is an insertion of a type of nervous water torture to the story. lol....he is irritating. Also, I think we get a sense of where our protagonist is at, the nervous pitch and often the devil may care! What I think is interesting is his overall anger apathy towards his mother and sister. This book is full of psychological metaphors, if that is correct word to describe it. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

@ Margaret

(view spoiler)[ I would never have picked up the incestuous feelings towards his sister. I agree with you on that front. Particularly about his anger and apathy towards them. (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

Part 15 on audio, somewhere around 60%?
(view spoiler)[
I didn't expect Lugen(sp?) to get caught in his lie. I think I was expecting everyone to believe that Sonia had stolen the money and no one would have any proof otherwise. I wanted to cheer when his friend came forward to call him a liar.

You know, I even liked Lugen at first. I thought Raskolnikov was being too hard on him. But he's trying to ruin Sonia's reputation, possibly bringing the police down on her, only to get back at Raskolnikov. I would not have expected that from him. He seemed like a person who defines himself by his morals.

I wonder what Dostoyevsky is trying to say? You have Lugen, who was a 'good' man, and he's trying to bring harm on someone who is innocent because of her connection to a man he hates. In this moment he looks worse than Raskolnikov, a murderer. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

I have read the first couple of chapters. So I can already see Dostoyevsky's ability to profile a character. The MC clearly is anti social. It is interesting even when he is in the Tavern he just sits in the background and kind of takes it all in, observing everyone. It feels like something sinister may be developing, Raskonlikov is plotting or contemplating something. If there is murder in this and he is the murderer, I wouldn't know this except I think I have heard things, he could fit someone capable. I wouldn't say yet if he is a sociopath, just anti social, but wether he lacks complete empathy I don't know, but he still doesn't seem to have or rely on deep connections with others, so being disconnected from others sure could make murder easier. I wonder if I will grow to care about or understand this character?

[Margaret]

Amanda wrote: "Part 15 on audio, somewhere around 60%?

I didn't expect Lugen(sp?) to get caught in his lie. I think I was expecting everyone to believe that Sonia had stolen the money and no one would have any ..."

I think: (view spoiler)[that Dostosyevsky perhaps wanted to show the wide range of evil and good in man. Lucien, I think that is how you spell it, I do have your book....lol. is a deceptive person who appears to be good. I love the detective/lawyer! He is so much like a Columbo for oldies that may have seen the show. Oh, I love this book! (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

Margaret wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Part 15 on audio, somewhere around 60%?

I didn't expect Lugen(sp?) to get caught in his lie. I think I was expecting everyone to believe that Sonia had stolen the money and no one ..."

Oh! I forgot I wanted to talk about him.
(view spoiler)[
The scene where he had Raskolnikov in his office and was laying out what he would do if he were interrogating a suspect. His entire cat/mouse speech had me in chills. And then the wink! I think he knows that Raskolnikov is anxious and not mentally stable and he was using that to try to break him. It would have worked, too, if the other man hadn't come forward to confess.
He had me wanting to confess! :D (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

Sarah wrote: "I have read the first couple of chapters. So I can already see Dostoyevsky's ability to profile a character. The MC clearly is anti social. It is interesting even when he is in the Tavern he just s..."

I think you are right... (view spoiler)[anti-social and yet not a pyschopath/sociopath (the difference is still a controversy) because he does have empathy and remorse even though they are inconsistent. I love your observations. It gets even better Sarah. :) (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

I was wondering what Sonia actually does to earn money - (view spoiler)[Is she selling her body? I was a little confuse. (hide spoiler)] The poverty is just so devastating. It seems like Marmeladov's wife could possibly die - said she had consumption. I wonder what would happen to the children. So sad.

[Margaret]

Well, it is implied and then confirmed later on as you read. The indications are there though not clearly said in what Marmeladov says and his remorse over what she "does" to bring money to the family. Extremely sad. Clearly Dostoyevsky writes from what he observed and experienced. I had read a short bio on him but I wouldn't mind reading an actual full length bio on him, his life was quite interesting.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Amanda wrote: "Part 15 on audio, somewhere around 60%?
..."

Yes that was such a heart stopping scene! I think you are right and the author is exploring different forms of crime and who is a "bad" person (view spoiler)[ and I love the later scene you talk about with the wink too! (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Sarah wrote: "I wonder if I will grow to care about or understand this character? ..."

I'm so interested in how you feel about him as you read

[Amanda]

Wow. I just finished it. It's a definite 5 star read for me.
(view spoiler)[
I didn't expect this book to end on such a hopeful note! I expected it to end in death- either Raskolnikov's or the people who knew the truth.

I thought Svidrigailov's dream was interesting. At first I thought that he was beginning to realize the harm and evil he had been doing when he was seeing the child as pitiable and innocent instead of a sexual object. Then that wicked grin and wink...what is it with the winking? It was a very chilling scene.
It's interesting how the author can make us despise Svidrigailov so much compared to Raskolnikov.
I think Dostoyevsky was showing the range of human behavior and emotion and the consequences of our choices. (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

I think having read it for the second time really brought certain scenes more to life (view spoiler)[I agree Svidrigailov was finally understanding the connection between the innocence of children and those who he ravaged. I never saw that coming the first time I read the book. Now onto Raskolnikov, I think the fact that the prisoners loved Sonja and looked to her visits and their being mesmerized by her showed that she represented forgiveness, hopefulness and ultimately renewal. I think that is why Raskolnikov for a while, reacted to Sonja as though she was repugnant to him. I think he was rejecting what she was offering and his reluctance to admit his guilt. And that ending! Talk about beautiful! (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

Margaret wrote: "I think having read it for the second time really brought certain scenes more to life [spoilers removed]"

I didn't pick up on that connection.
(view spoiler)[
I think you're right about her representing forgiveness. His accepting of her was almost like saying he finally admitted that he had done something that needed to be forgiven. (hide spoiler)]

[Nicole]

I had almost given up on reading this one as I had been on hold for audio for what seemed like forever!

HOWEVER, I managed to pick up where I left off before TT3 started, and have now gotten as far as chapter 7 of part 2 -- really close to the start of part 3. Probably I am still very behind everyone, and I don't remember who said it, but I really do love the fact that there is a solid friendship and family behind this man who is basically a murderer. It's intriguing.

[Srividya]

@Nicole - Am still in Part 3 at the very beginning. Juggling too many books at present, so will be there to give you company :)

@Margaret - Regarding the spoiler in comment 117 above (view spoiler)[I do agree with you. It does seem as if he is bogged down with guilt, which is why he is projecting them at Petrovich. I love the way the author has written the entire scene - showing Petrovich at his worst/best (whichever the case may be LOL) and Raskolnikov at his most pathetic state. It seems as if Raskolnikov has a death wish or is really clever - especially at the way in which he reacts to everything about the murder in front of the others, using his illness, without really meaning to, as a ploy to distract others. I loved the way he told the entire truth to Zamytov and made him think he was a fool.. I am really enjoying the psychological intricacies that are woven by the author. It seems fantastic - makes me wonder how I would react if I were in either of their shoes. What if I am Raskolnikov - would I have the presence of mind or the madness that is raging underneath to do something as stupid as that OR if I were in Zamytov's position - how would I react! So many questions - I had to take a pause to absorb it! :). And as I read the third part, I am getting more and more irritated with Razimikhin. I mean his heart is in the right place but please can you just shut up for some time is what I want to tell him. Lol! Although I must say that I agree with you, he does provide an insight into Raskolnikov's character and current state of mind. It makes me wonder whether Russians at that point of time were all like that, especially the younger generation - Was it always this loud and too full of abstract chatter..is it why the author has included such a character in this novel, to show us how the youth were at that time in Russia? (hide spoiler)]

About Marmelodov - (view spoiler)[What did you think about the death of Marmelodov - Was it really necessary? I couldn't understand the significance of this death, except maybe that it distracted Raskolnikov from his mad frenzy for a bit. I wonder whether this death has some link in the later part or is it an isolated incident, just to show Raskolnikov's character from different perspectives? I really felt bad for the family though - despite the fact that he didn't really earn a thing and blew away everything on drinking, he still was there.. I wonder what will happen to them and what role this family will play now in Raskolnikov's life. (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

Amanda wrote: "Margaret wrote: "I think having read it for the second time really brought certain scenes more to life [spoilers removed]"

I didn't pick up on that connection.

I think you're right about her rep..."

exactly! See, I didn't catch that the first time I read it....

[Margaret]

Nicole wrote: "I had almost given up on reading this one as I had been on hold for audio for what seemed like forever!

HOWEVER, I managed to pick up where I left off before TT3 started, and have now gotten as f..."

Nicole...even though I am finished with the book, I will be back to discuss it as you read it. haha....I probably have already told you this but I am too lazy to go check. I love discussing books, esp. C&P :)

[Margaret]

Srividya wrote: "@Nicole - Am still in Part 3 at the very beginning. Juggling too many books at present, so will be there to give you company :)

@Margaret - Regarding the spoiler in comment 117 above [spoilers rem..."

Srividya....you and Nicole will have me to interact with, I might be finished but I will be back to discuss the book.

I love your comments and perspective (view spoiler)[I wanted to just say that I wondered about the "liveliness" of our characters, esp. Razimikhin. I like you thought "please, for once shut it!" but I think that modern society expresses ourselves in a more mundane way because I think we act out in other ways, we spend a lot of energy trying to survive in a 'in your face' world. We can't afford to let it all hang out! I think that their society and perhaps most societies at that time were more social, and vocal. I have heard that in some parts of the world, in this instance,in rural Africa, the people don't have the modern toys as we do. They spend a large part of their time talking and sharing with family and friends. I kind of like that. As to Marmelodov, I wasn't too clear as to the reason of his death, including it in this story but I wonder if Dostoyevsky was highlighting the life of the poor surviving in Russia at the time. Also I think the event showed the kindness that our protagonist was capable of. (hide spoiler)] Well, happy reading you all! Can't wait to hear what you think of the coming events hehe.....

[Srividya]

@Margaret - I am really looking forward to the discussions. :)

(view spoiler)[I guess you are right. I don't know why but Razimikhin kind of reminds me of my seven year old, who just won't keep quiet and has to have an opinion about anything and everything. Lol. He has a child like quality about him, a certain innocence in his thoughts and actions, which are so different from that of the protagonist. I am really enjoying the differences between the two - where one is sly, the other is totally open. I wonder what his reaction will be when he finds out the truth about Raskolnikov. Well, I guess I am getting ahead of myself here, as usual! Haha..

Yeah you are right about Dostoyevsky wanting to highlight the life of the poor in Russia at that time. I think it is true of many places even today, where Darwin's theory still plays a very important role in ensuring who survives and who does not. It was an act of unusual kindness, something that you won't expect out of a murderer or even the protagonist for that matter. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Haha - I think I am the furthest behind. I am still on Part One. No reading for me tomorrow. I work a 12 shift. Gotta get to bed now for five hours of sleep. But I have learned now about his sister and mother which he seems to care for very much. Not sure yet what is his problem with his sister's wedding plans, but he does not seem happy.

[Nicole]

Sarah wrote: "Haha - I think I am the furthest behind. I am still on Part One. No reading for me tomorrow. I work a 12 shift. Gotta get to bed now for five hours of sleep. But I have learned now about his sister..."

Yeah, actually, I'm at part three and that still hasn't been fully fleshed out. I remember it though and am looking forward to seeing what happens next.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I'm loving all your comments and perspectives. And thanks so much for your thoughts in message 129 Margaret, I hadn't picked up on that connection

[Nancy]

Sarah wrote: "Haha - I think I am the furthest behind. I am still on Part One. No reading for me tomorrow. I work a 12 shift. Gotta get to bed now for five hours of sleep. But I have learned now about his sister..."

No, Sarah, not the furthest. I only just finished Part 1 last night.

I have to say I was shocked by the murder. Of course, I knew it was coming - it is the major plot point stated in the blurb at the back of the book, but it was so gruesome and senseless. But it read like a true thriller. I was breathless as I was turning the pages, wondering whether he was going to do something silly and get caught. Poor Lizaveta!

[Nicole]

I was exactly the same, Nancy Helen! Such good writing, such a good lead up to the end of the first part!

I'm not really sure that the end of the second part has lived up to that.

[Margaret]

Srividya wrote: "@Margaret - I am really looking forward to the discussions. :)

I guess you are right. I don't know why but Razimikhin kind of reminds me of my seven year old, who just won't keep quiet and has to ..."

I think (view spoiler)[that Dostoyevsky threw in a wrench to our understanding to show that even a murderer can be kind. I have talked to a therapist that had a client whose father was a serial killer and he said that she was in total shock when the truth came out about her father. He was a killer and yet all she saw was his kindness. I think that is so fascinating. Who knows from whom Dostoyevsky gathered his information. Now that I would be really interested in knowing. The more we discuss this, I want to read a bio on him. (hide spoiler)]

@Sarah...boy, it is a wonder that you can get your reading done! 12 hour shifts! (view spoiler)[I think guilt is a major part of why he has a problem with his sister marrying. ah....guilt! can drive a man or woman bonkers. (hide spoiler)]

@Karen....yep, I think reading it again helped with that connection. I have decided to read it once a year just for kicks....lol

@Nancy: Isn't it great? wow! I agree, I was stuck to each word (in my case, an audio) and it felt like you were right there with him...hoping that he wouldn't get caught! How twisted is that! Good writing.

[Nicole]

I won't lie, I don't understand how this book is the favourite of so many of you. However, I will say that it has been an easier read with the pearls of insight that have been shared over the course of this buddy read and I am sticking to it and enjoying it more than I would have otherwise.

I am now almost halfway through at Part 2, Chapter 4.

[Srividya]

Part 3

(view spoiler)[I simply breezed through this part and truly my heart was pounding at times while I witnessed just how clever and sly Raskolnikov could be. Makes me wonder whether there was a criminal in him all the time. Till now I thought, and was therefore sympathetic towards him, that his crime was an attempt of getting out of his misery and poverty. While this may have been the reason for why he killed, I am not so sure as to whether he is any different from any other murderer now. Is it his guilt that is making him more cruel than he is or was he always this cruel and sly? This question is now bugging me. I have to say one thing though that Dostoyevsky is simply brilliant in putting together a tale that is woven with such intricacies that is totally mind blowing.

I laughed at the description of his mother. Lol.. I am also getting close to that age and found it extremely funny that I would be considered old at one point of time in society!

Raskolnikov's conversation with the investigator was simply out of this world. I loved the way one tried to trap the other and how Raskolnikov got away so blithely. At this stage, despite knowing just how cruel and unkind Raskolnikov can be, I still don't want him to get caught. I wonder what that says about me?! Lol

His dream and his whole stance during this part was only of guilt and not remorse. If he had shown some remorse, I would have felt more sympathetic perhaps. However, without remorse I am not sure what my feelings are now... Despite that I don't want him to get caught.. Oh what a muddle my thoughts are in right now!

Razumikhin has kind of grown on me now. I am liking him as much as one would love a small puppy. He is so vibrant and so honest - such a vast difference in character as opposed to Raskolnikov. Now I understand or rather think I understand his role in this tale - Is it to contrast the two characters and show that despite such oddities, people can still be friends and love each other?

I am really scared now to reach the point when the truth is revealed as I don't want to see Razumikhin's face fall... isn't is surprising that as a reader, I would be more worried about the friend rather than the family? I wonder whether it is because the friend has always been in the forefront while the family has always taken a background! (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

Nicole wrote: "I won't lie, I don't understand how this book is the favourite of so many of you. However, I will say that it has been an easier read with the pearls of insight that have been shared over the cours..."

I totally understand what you are saying Nicole, it can be difficult especially because of the style of writing is very "classic" and can be hard to get into, I totally get that.

You know what, I suggest that if you can find an audio version, it would help. When I first read C&P I used the book and the audio simultaneously but of course making sure that it matched up with the translation. The narrator for the audio is Anthony Heald, he is the best. I think it gave momentum to the book. This time around I just listened to the audio and skipped reading it. I found it on my local Overdrive and then downloaded it to my ipod.

At least we can buddy around you while you read it. :)
I would say if you get in here and write more about where you are at or your personal thoughts on the book it might help give incentive and insight.

I am not sure if you have some experience with classics but when I first started reading them, it felt so unfamiliar and the language and style of writing seemed foreign to me. After reading many of them and sticking with it, I have found that now I love the writing and style, there is more inflection and emotion that I thought. :) hope this helps, didn't mean to "rattle on"....lol.

[Margaret]

Srividya wrote: "Part 3

I simply breezed through this part and truly my heart was pounding at times while I witnessed just how clever and sly Raskolnikov could be. Makes me wonder whether there was a criminal in h..."

Man....I love how your mind works, I think you like puzzles! Do you happen to love mysteries? lol so....(view spoiler)[Wow....I am enjoying your thoughts and observations about the book and also how you are viewing Razumikhin as a puppy...I had a good laugh on that one! I am right there with you in wondering why Raskolnikov murdered two people...that is so disconcerting! And why? This question also plagued me and you'll see, the reason why is picked at and ascertained to the end. I still had questions as to why though. It felt like to me that he was already damaged in some way, because after all it wasn't because he was poor and needed the money, he buried it! He didn't even bother looking in the purse! It felt like we were dropped right in the middle of a murder plot in the middle of a psychological quagmire of sorts. I wonder if Dostoyevsky was questioning and exploring why do murderers murder? What causes such moral and spirit deprivation? why? ugh....it can drive you nuts!

The vacillation between guilt and remorse and an arrogance is so classic! I agree I loved the cat and mouse game between the inspector and Raskolnikov, I enjoyed that to no end! (hide spoiler)]

[Srividya]

Yes Margaret, I do love mysteries and puzzles. Lol.

(view spoiler)[It does seem as if Dostoyevsky doesn't really want to write a murder mystery but wants to actually get into the psychology of murderers, doesn't it? Raskolnikov didn't even flinch when he killed Lizaveta and he doesn't think of her again after that. Exactly - the 'why' is honestly driving me nuts and I am not sure if there is any answer to that. He just did - it almost feels like it was a game to him, especially after that whole discourse on his paper that he had written about how some people have the 'right' to commit crimes! It almost seemed as if the author was paving a path to explain the why but yet it doesn't really explain that part.

I wonder though whether it was guilt to a great extent that made him bury the purse and not look at it? OR was it something more sinister - for instance, when he was talking to Zamytov, he does tell him that if he were the murderer, he would hide it and not look at it for a year or two until things were more or less stable and after that he would sell it and get it his money and no one would be any wiser at that point. This made me wonder whether he had actually planned the whole thing through right up to the last minute and all these exhibitions of guilt and irritation are also a part of the same act that he had conceived well in advance before the actual murder! Its mind boggling, these intricacies but I am truly enjoying them. Truly a 5 star book at least till now it has been so, very consistently.

And while I was reading that whole interaction with Razumikhin, I couldn't help but think of him like that. Lol he does seem over eager and he kind of grows on you, as I said earlier (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

Srividya wrote: "Yes Margaret, I do love mysteries and puzzles. Lol.

It does seem as if Dostoyevsky doesn't really want to write a murder mystery but wants to actually get into the psychology of murderers, doesn't..."

yep...(view spoiler)[you do like mysteries! I love to find a mystery with the psychological and character driven variety if you know of one or more, let me know! lol...I guess that part wasn't a spoiler, just to lazy to move it....okay...so

I think you hit it on the head, I think he felt an immediate need which was psychologically driven to "hide" his guilt, the spoils was something visible and concrete aside from the actual murdered women and blood of course. I liked the way Dostoyevsky dealt with that part, you could feel the anxiety, the pull, the rush to hide it. I think he had more angst over this did he felt towards murdering those poor women, especially Lizaveta. I was wanting some reaction from him especially after her look and reaching out to him, you would think that he would feel something, anything but not even remorse.

Oh and the analogy of wanting to be "a Napoleon" I kept thinking that after all we all know that Napoleon was a small insecure man with power over nations (for a while). There has to be some correlation between this and Raskolnikov trying to rise above his own insecurities perhaps? I do think it was planned out I think his paper was really part of the plan for whatever reason. So I wonder which came first? the plan or the paper or both! (hide spoiler)]

[Srividya]

Margaret - I haven't read as many as I would like that would fit that particular category. Most thrillers or mysteries that I read fall flat in the psychological aspect of things. However, recently i read this book In the Miso Soup and found it a really nice book. Its a small one but in those few pages, it shows depravity in humans, society and takes you right down to the bottom of criminal minds, especially in different societies. It is pretty grotesque in its execution but very interesting in its own way. However, I must say that being a small book, it seems more like an appetizer, while this one is a full 5 course meal! :)

(view spoiler)[I think you said it perfectly when you spoke about the analogy of wanting to be a 'Napoleon'. I felt the same way.. Raskolnikov is insecure - whether this insecurity was within him right from the beginning or was it a consequence of his recent plight, I am not sure but insecurity is the reason on which all his actions are based. At times I feel its really cliched in its reasoning - I mean most authors drive home the fact that criminal minds and activities are often the result of insecurities that are either deep rooted within you or are the result of some past experience. However, it will be interesting to see how Dostoyevsky takes this forward.

That is the real question isn't it? Which one came first - the plan or the paper? At present, I feel that it was a combination of both.. he had some kind of a plan inside his mind and wrote the paper, which in turn solidified the plan. Whatever it was, it sure does make for a great story (hide spoiler)]

[Margaret]

Ha! You have an interest in Psychology! lol! I do too! so cool :) I'll have to look into that book.

(view spoiler)[I agree, I don't think insecurity was his drive to murder but when I think of Napoleon, I first think of the insecurity and then wham the power and the need for it. I think that Raskolnikov had this deep desire to "work out" his plan, his paper to see if it was feasible. Rather arrogant in a way, I think this is where I also sense a thread of insecurity. An unconscious need to counteract it but like you said, it has been clichéd in its reasoning. :) I now have to lay my brain to rest. Happy reading! (hide spoiler)]