The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
Booker Prize for Fiction
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2019 Booker Shortlist Discussion
Interesting video, Declan. It annoys me that it will be difficult to read The Testaments before the winner is announced. I am about a quarter through Quichotte and enjoying it quite a bit, which I did not expect. Not sure if I will go back to Ducks and attempt to finish.
Erin, a lot of us live in Britain but I would guess only a few will be at the Manchester shortlist event, and a few at the Cheltenham event. Some will also be at the London event on the 13th, and that is the event which will have most, if not all, of the shortlisted authors. Manchester and Cheltenham are not likely to get them all.Come on over!
I will be at London with two of my daughters and I think Paul will be there with one of his. Ang is correct - I think it’s close to compulsory for the authors to be at the London event (and the award dinner is the next night so they will all want to be in London anyway) - the other events normally get say 4 of the authors.
Southbank is claiming all 6 will be there.First odds out - from William Hill
They have Ducks N as favourite (2-1), followed by An Orchestra of Minorities (3-1), GWO (7-2), joint 4th Testaments and Quichotte (6-1), and 10 Minutes 38 Seconds in This Strange World as outsider (15-2).
(not very generous odds though as there is a 20% profit margin built in)
Testaments feels value there as long as Amazonprimegate hasn't annoyed the judges.
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I don't see why he couldn't be a member again if he acknowledged the issue with just spamming YouTube links and if he was going to contribute to discussion other than that, or merely read posts without spamming. (It can be useful to just see stuff on the Discussions page.) But he didn't even seem to notice either time he was warned, as he doesn't seem to hang out on GR much. The main thing is that he wasn't causing conflict with other people.
I just watched Daram’s YouTube video and it was nice to see one that wasn’t sardonic or just plain negative. I don’t need everyone to love what I love, but positivity is more enjoyable than negativity. He didn’t like Lanny, I loved Lanny, but he gave Grief is the Thing with Feathers high praise so I can live with that.
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I would buy a limited edition The Mirror and the Light, especially if it’s signed.I have started collecting books. I realized that my Galley Beggar black cover books are collectible so I was off to a good start. I only have a few, but I was excited to get them: signed 1st/1st The Eye in the Door, signed 1st/1st Master Georgie, an ARC of We That Are Young, and I’ve just ordered a copy of The Sea, the Sea from A.S.
Byatt’s personal library, it has A.S. Duffy July 1978 written on the end paper, but the crown jewel will hopefully be Ducks, Newburyport signed to me thanks to the generosity of Paul! He offered me his copy when I told him I was hoping to get all the Galley Beggar books, then offered to see of Lucy Ellmann would sign it to me! I will have to clear off an entire shelf, get a glass display case with a red velvet cushion to set it on, and just the right lighting to shine on it.
I’m starting with 20, 21 century women authors because those are the books I love and they are relatively cheap and easy to get now.
Ang wrote: "Erin, a lot of us live in Britain but I would guess only a few will be at the Manchester shortlist event, and a few at the Cheltenham event. Some will also be at the London event on the 13th, and t..."The 13th eh? I've been looking for an excuse to hang out in London for a week or so. This is a decent one. I wonder if I need tickets to the event? Will it be mobbed? Don't be surprised to see me Ang and GY and Paul. You've seen my picture! I want to hear the author of GWO speak about her background. Does she really hang around with people who are like the characters in her novel?
WndyJW wrote: "I would buy a limited edition The Mirror and the Light, especially if it’s signed.I have started collecting books. I realized that my Galley Beggar black cover books are collectible so I was off ..."
I tried to sign up for Galley Beggar but the website said they don't ship to the US. How did you finagle a subscription WndyJW?
I'd like to collect books but don't know where to begin. I buy hard copies of books I love and put them on my shelves. I don't trust anyone who doesn't have tons of books in their home.
Erin, you would need to purchase a ticket. There are plenty of seats available.https://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/wha...
Erin wrote: "I tried to sign up for Galley Beggar but the website said they don't ship to the US. How did you finagle a subscription WndyJW?"Erin, They do ship to Galley Buddies in the US - it costs a bit more. I can't remember how I first did it, but it seems I have an email with them telling me "no problem" and actually giving me a decent discount the first time I signed up as a Buddy. I'd just try via the webform & write a little note in the "anything extra to tell us" spot that you understand there are existing US Buddies... If they have changed anything, they'll tell you.
I have been collecting signed first editions from black American authors I love for maybe 7 years, and while I don't have a ton, I love my little collection. I have some other signed editions that certain publishers just send me - without me asking, so I've got a few from Richard Powers' editor (including The Overstory) and some others. The weird part about those is I have no recollection of ever asking or even connecting w/ those publishers. Oh well.
Ella, is right, Erin. Email them that you live in the US, pay for the subscription you want, then pay for shipping as a donation. It’s almost double the cost of the subscription, but it’s worth it to me.That’s a great way to get first editions, Ella.
Thanks Ella and WndyJW. I'll get on it. I'd love to have signed first editions from women writers. I love the idea that you're collecting first editions of black US authors, Ella. I bet that collection will be worth a lot of money, not to mention the enjoyment you get out of having it.
Okay. I know I'm about to make a mistake (again). But I don't see a separate thread to discuss Quichotte, though I see a picture of the novel on the group's bookshelf. I've been there before, so I know it exists.
Thanks GY. I erased my post that was here and put it there.
Paul wrote: "First odds out - from William HillThey have Ducks N as favourite (2-1), followed by An Orchestra of Minorities (3-1), GWO (7-2), joint 4th Testaments and Quichotte (6-1), and 10 Minutes 38 Seconds in This Strange World as outsider (15-2).
Testaments feels value there as long as Amazonprimegate hasn't annoyed the judges."
The Bookies (or their punters) have bought into idea that the fix is in for the Testaments. It is now near even favourite:
Testaments 6-5
Ducks 5-2
GWO 9-2
Orchestra 6-1
Quichotte 7-1
10m38s 9-1
No need for me to say again who I’m hoping for, but the only other winner acceptable to me is Woman, Girl, Other. I can’t comment on An Orchestra because I didn’t read it, but if The Testaments wins the Booker will lose all credibility with me. I haven’t read very many positive reviews for it’s qualities other than it’s a page turner.
I can't see The Testaments winning, but I like those odds for 10m38s.
WndyJW wrote: "but if The Testaments wins than the Booker will lose all credibility with me. I haven’t read very many positive reviews for it’s qualities other than it’s a page turner."Agreed on the win, but the weird part to me is the number of professional/newspaper/etc reviews that seemed to adore this book. I won't use the phrase, but I suspect a lot of those reviewers were swept up in getting to read a book under such a tight embargo & also all the hype. It's a relief to find so many regular old readers on GR saying "wait a minute..."
But then, I recently read that list of the Guardian's best 100 books from (recent? dunno the decade) times - they link to their reviews of the ones they've reviewed, and some of the books listed have the worst reviews I've ever read, so oh well.
How the world changes! Three years ago if I could get 7-1 on as well written a novel as Quixchotte with the author name recognition, I would be thinking the bookmakers were giving me an early X-Mas present. Present day, I would be leery about making the bet,. I still think it is an overlay and might be worth a bet though.
I seriously gave some thought to putting small bets on all the non-favs but being in the US, it probably would cost far more than I could ever hope to win.
I don’t know how anyone predicts the winner when the judges change every year.
By analysing those judges. There was a person who attained some fame a few years ago for picking and betting heavily on the winner twice running based on his analysis of the books versus the judges’ backgrounds. Inevitably the year he appeared in the newspapers, he then got it wrong (and perhaps his technique was no more valid than the psychic octopuses that appear at the time of major sporting events).This year GY predicted Quichotte and the Testaments is re longlist based on two of the judges, I thought GWO was bound to appear due to another judge.
Although picking a winner is particularly hard as even if one “knows” what book one judge will back, there are several judges and sometimes compromise candidates win.
Incidentally William Hill appear to have suspended betting so may be even more concerned that the result is already decided.
Oh, well, yes, that’s one way, I guess. :)I should have said, I don’t how the average reader like myself could guess the winner, which is why this is now my only Goodreads group; quite a few of our members are not average readers, so we average readers get the inside scoop on upcoming books, writers, and publishers worth watching, and a peek behind the curtains of judges and judging.
This was the mystery punter who apparently had a fail safe method. Of course he was wrong that year:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/wha...
And an article here interviewing two of the odds setters. Their main tip - don’t make the mistake of reading the books (else your subjective judgement comes into play):
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...
Sadly, what these odds setters have done is make clear that all literary prizes winners are simply the books the particular judges for that year like best. We know there is no absolute best book, it’s all subjective, and the benefit is only that some writers get financial support to write more and to bring attention to books in general.It makes me question again why I buy books that don’t really interest me only because they were listed for a prize.
Yes I question that and then every year when the list comes out ....But part of the answer is:
to be able to discuss them on here with like-minded readers (even if we do disagree the discussion is worthwhile)
Paul wrote: "And an article here interviewing two of the odds setters. Their main tip - don’t make the mistake of reading the books (else your subjective judgement comes into play):"I'm having a hard enough time picking my own personal favorite from this batch, so my judgment wouldn't help me anyhow. While I liked the books, I really can't point to one that stands out from the pack or that resonated with me in a meaningful way (as Milkman and Lincoln in the Bardo did the previous two years). I feel bad admitting this because they are all good books -- it's just that something didn't quite click with me this time around.
Picking a favorite would have been a lot easier if Lanny or The Lost Children Archive had made the shortlist. (Sour grapes, perhaps?) Based on the reviews, I probably would have also felt good about The Man Who Saw Everything, but it is still on backorder, so I haven't had a chance to read it.
Picking a favorite would have been a lot easier if Lanny or The Lost Children Archive had made the shortlist. (Sour grapes, perhaps?) "I feel the same way. Lanny and Lost Children were (in my opinion) by far the best books on the longlist. With them out of the running, I'm not feeling very attached to the outcome. This year's judges seem to have been keen to make a point of rewarding the longevity of certain authors, not necessarily their books (I'm thinking of Atwood and Rushdie).
I would feel the same way if Rushdie and Atwood had not won it already.
Paul wrote: "Yes I question that and then every year when the list comes out ....But part of the answer is:
to be able to discuss them on here with like-minded readers (even if we do disagree the discussion i..."
I do enjoy the discussions of the books, which would be less interesting if we all agreed.
But_i_thought_ wrote: "Picking a favorite would have been a lot easier if Lanny or The Lost Children Archive had made the shortlist. (Sour grapes, perhaps?) "I feel the same way. Lanny and Lost Children were (in my opi..."
Ditto. Since Lanny and Lost Children Archive (as well as the new Levy which I expect to be excellent) were dropped out, my interest in following the prize this year unfortunately waned. I’m on the library waiting list for Atwood and Rushdie, but based on reviews I’m not excited about reading either. I’ve tried picking up An Orchesta this whole year but can’t make myself finish it, so I admit defeat now. I really did not like 10'38''. Ducks is a breath of fresh air, but I do have a few quibbles with it. That leaves GWO, which is the one novel I enjoyed throughout – though it does not quite resonate the way Milkman or Lincoln in the Bardo did.
But that’s how it goes sometimes! It’s still a fun event every year and it’s a great way to explore authors you wouldn’t read otherwise. Fingers crossed for a more personally resonant shortlist revealed on Wednesday. ;)
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I am hoping for a Shafak win. It was nowhere near the top of my list in the longlist, but then my top 4 didn't make the shortlist. (As others have said above, that took the lustre off this year's prize and I haven't felt compelled to finish the list).Anyway, I think 10m38s is good enough, better than some previous winners, and the fame it brings will, I think, help her against the attacks from Turkey.
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As I've read more of the shortlist, I also am frustrated by the Lanny and LCA omissions. I think both are better than anything I've read on the shortlist - although I'm not yet done with GWO, Testaments or Ducks.
I just finished 10 minutes ... and I really enjoyed it. So far I only read this one and Testaments. I can't get GWO for the moment and I am not super excited about Orchestra or Quichotte, so I guess it is time to dive into Ducks.
Anto already said what I've been thinking. Also, frankly, she could use the political support that a Booker win would give her.
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They don't seem to be offering odds any more - that's all I know.Although it was never the most liquid market - I decided to go all in on Betway (who are offering odds) on Shafak given the discussion here and fact she is an outsider - and the max stake I was allowed was 22.50.
Predicting on the old Mookse and Gripe forum who could be longlisted, based on box-checking, I included Shafak, for some of the reasons above, and. Anyone remember?
Those of you who have been passionately debating the merits of The Testaments, both here and in its particular thread, might be curious to know that the shortlist for the Giller Prize, which is the biggest prize for fiction in Canada, was announced today.The Testaments had been longlisted, but did not go forward to the shortlist. Something else to ponder as we try to read the tea leaves...
I am surprised there isn't more love for Rushdie this year. I was pleased with his novel and saw a couple of others give praise, but given the respect he had earlier from the group, his star seems to have fallen a bit. Did members find his novel too light, or perhaps was it too America oriented? I most admired how he tried to bridge the gap between elitist and popular fiction. I can't think of another piece of metafiction where the author was as patient in trying to insure that the reader knew what was going on.
Sam wrote: "I am surprised there isn't more love for Rushdie this year. I was pleased with his novel and saw a couple of others give praise, but given the respect he had earlier from the group, his star seems ..."Quichotte was my first Rushdie book and I really enjoyed it. The twists and turns toward the end of the book started to wear on me a bit, but I remained in awe of his writing throughout. The first thing I did when I finished it was place an order for Midnight's Children, which I can't wait to start.
Antonomasia wrote: "I think Shafak is being underestimated as a potential winner. As a writer being politically attacked in Turkey, an advocate of politically aware writing and a woman of colour she is IMO the obvious..."10 Minutes 38 Seconds wasn't my first choice, but I consider it a close #3. Overall, I enjoyed the book and would be happy to see Shafak win. All the better if it sends a political message to her oppressors in Turkey.
I didn't realize just how bad things were for Shafak in Turkey. I'm aware of how journalists are treated there but didn't realize that the abuse extended to other writers. However, nothing surprises me anymore with Erdogan at the helm.
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