The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
Booker Prize for Fiction
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2019 Booker Shortlist Discussion
Hirsch surely?
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Atwood was bound to make the shortlist, as you pointed out on Twitter Hugh. But for the winner the judges' infatuation with being the only people who've read the book and having to sign NDA's etc will be less relevant.Incidentally according to the Booker prize press release, independent publisher Galley Beggar Press has one book on the shortlist (one of only two books it is publishing this year), which is interesting as I was expecting as a subscriber two more ie three overall, but I had heard that one had been delayed (indeed it was supposed to be out in August).
Atwood has just - unsurprisingly perhaps - made the Giller Prize longlist as well.https://twitter.com/GillerPrize/statu...
Although the judges managed to avoid discussing ferocious non disclosure agreements
I'm as happy about Ducks as I am disappointed about Lanny. I haven't yet read An Orchestra of Minorities or Girl, Woman, Other, or obviously Rushdie or Atwood, but Rushdie hasnt gotten good reviews.
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Has anyone asked Sam or Ellie what is happening with the Toby Litt? I presume the other one is the new Alex Pheby but it would only take a small delay to push that into 2020.
Rushdie has got good reviews - but some bad ones as well.Books In the Media's review aggregator has him at 3.47/5 which is the weakest on the shortlist.
https://booksinthemedia.thebookseller...
Ducks has the best rating on the shortlist per their aggregator (which include's Declan's excellent review) but they inexplicably overlooked the most accurate review of all, in Private Eye.
I am also disappointed about Lanny, but glad that Ducks and The Testaments made the list. (Sequels often disappoint, so knowing that Atwood made the shortlist gives me something to look forward to.)10 minutes, 38 seconds doesn't go on sale here until December, but I just ordered a paperback version from an online UK reseller on Amazon, which should arrive in a week or two.
In the meantime, I am finishing up a book for my book club this Thursday, but will jump back in when I am finished with it.
I'm quite pleased I managed to predict four of the six but - like many others - rather disappointed by the omission of Lanny.On the "bright" side - it seems that of the five I have yet to read four are included on the shortlist so I will definitely be getting to all thirteen this year.
I will be pausing my reading for a few days to finish off a few other books I'm in the middle of before diving into the deep end with Ducks (which I am looking forward to).
All shortlisted books have more than 300 pages (and the five longest books of the longlist are all shortlisted). The judges don't seem to like short novels...
David wrote: "All shortlisted books have more than 300 pages (and the five longest books of the longlist are all shortlisted). The judges don't seem to like short novels..."That is interesting - I had speculated previously that length could be detrimental to shortlist chances, but that was clearly not the case this year. I do sometimes feel that it is unfair to compare books like Lanny and My Sister, which can be read in 2-3 hours, to heavily-researched and densely-packed 300+ page novels. There's just so much more to unpack in longer novels.
The length observation is a very good one David. Tom - the exception to your comment I think is the Levy book which had as much to unpack as anything on the longlist.
And Lost Children Archive which is both quite long (400) and intellectually dense didn't make it.
I guessed 4 of the 6, but I'm really disappointed about a couple of the omissions. I'd rather the books I really loved get on the list. However, when trying to guess the shortlist, even w/o reading them all, it was hard to narrow to six, and I'd guess the judges felt similarly. I agree that it seems like world events are taking some hold of the group to me - like the list is a reflection of the world around us rather than just on the books.
Shafak's having big problems re: her country & it seems like they are focused on the outside world & how that's infringing on and entering into literature.
My copy of Quichotte arrived this morning & I've been hiding in my office reading it between appointments. It's so much better than I expected, so far... but I'm not terrifically far.
I haven't received the Levy book yet, but from the comments here, I really expected her to be on that list!
I did expect both Obioma & Evaristo on the list. Maybe it's a black thing, but I just saw that coming.
Just an observation, but four of the six I had to get directly from the UK by signing up for an Amazon UK account, which I didn’t even know I could do. The books only arrived last week so I haven’t had time to read them.I’m not at all surprised by Girl, Woman, Other. I’m halfway through and loving it. The book blurb doesn’t do it justice at all. It doesn’t identify a common theme among the women. I’ll save further comments for the individual thread.
Look forward to that Erin. GWO is in the odd position of being top or very close to top of the forums longlist rankings but with the least discussion - and I think a key reason was its lack of availability in the US. Even pre longlist it was a very possible winner so I look forward to more discussion.
Thanks, Sam.The reason I haven't talked about GWO is that it felt incredibly personal to me. I have written in that thread several times then just erased it all & left it alone. It's hard to put into words how on point she is about so much - be it race or gender or women's places in the world, childlessness/motherhood, etc. It's a BIG book.
I only guessed three, but I chose five of the shortlist in my own top six (including one I haven't read), so I am quite happy with it. It is possible that Quichotte will make up for the omission of Lanny, but those who have read both don't seem to think so.
My top 4 did not make it. I don't recall this happening before. The 4 I haven't yet read better be good.
The only book I couldn’t bring myself to finish was Frankissstein. I read a few chapters of GWO just to get a feel for it and the first two chapter of Obiama’s weeks ago and liked what I read so I’m looking forward to reading the 4 I still need to read. Quichotte arrived today so I’ll celebrate Hugh’s birthday by starting it.
I knew Rushdie and Atwood would be shortlisted even if their books aren’t that good because they are Atwood and Rushdie! I have higher expectations of Atwood then Rushdie and if either of them don’t deliver it will make the exclusion of Lanny that much harder to take.
Hugh wrote: "Has anyone asked Sam or Ellie what is happening with the Toby Litt?"The novel was reviewed recently in The Irish Times, so it must be due soon. I've had a review copy for a few weeks but I haven't read it yet.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/bo...
Paul wrote: "Rushdie has got good reviews - but some bad ones as well.Books In the Media's review aggregator has him at 3.47/5 which is the weakest on the shortlist.
https://booksinthemedia.thebookseller.co..."
That's before my review is included! At least I hope they will include it. They usually list the Irish Times reviews. Mind you, for my review of Adele, they called me Declan O'Donnell!
Your excellent Ducks one is in Books in the Media the list for that, and under the right name.(and thanks re Patience - I was expecting two separate copies in August, one as a Buddy from the publisher and one from the RoC bookclub, and the bookclub sent a rather odd message about it being delayed but they couldn't say why)
Incidentally now the embargo has been rendered null and void will a Testaments review by appearing from you soon?
Having thought on the shortlist for a day ... I still don't feel real enthusiasm. I am very, very happy for Bernadine Evaristo though. I really loved this novel. I am interested in Ducks but don't see myself tackling the book anytime soon. I finished the Shafak on Sunday and did enjoy it, I don't think it's the greatest choice for the longlist. I would have preferred to see The Man Who Saw Everything or Lost Children Archive included. I did call the Obioma (elsewhere) and am not particularly pleased that I was right.
I am excited about the shortlist for my personal reading plans. I read the books I could get a hold of easily first and the Obioma was one of them. I liked it, but didn't love it. I also started Ducks and enjoyed the opening pages quite a bit, so I will be continuing on soon. I'm looking forward to Girl, Woman, Other because so many of you have spoken so highly of it. I will probably end up buying it and 10 Minutes. I always planned on Quichotte and The Testaments landing on the list. Testaments is coming in the mail. I'm hopeful and fairly confident that Atwood will come through and that I will like the Rushdie, too. I will wait and see how I feel about the exclusion of Lost Children Archive and Lanny as I read.
Paul wrote: "Your excellent Ducks one is in Books in the Media the list for that, and under the right name.(and thanks re Patience - I was expecting two separate copies in August, one as a Buddy from the publ..."
Thanks for your comment regarding my Ducks review, Paul. I know that we don't agree about the worth of the book so I appreciate your fairness,
I should have said that it was my Quichotte review that hasn't yet been included. I was hoping to get that rating down a little lower!
I haven't been asked to review The Testaments. I haven't any review coming up for a while. But I can tell you I will be reviewing a book which you are looking forward to more than any other!
Declan wrote: "Paul wrote: "Your excellent Ducks one is in Books in the Media the list for that, and under the right name.(and thanks re Patience - I was expecting two separate copies in August, one as a Buddy ..."
Your reviews are always a highlight - I loved the Quichotte one as well even though you and I are at opposite ends of opinion on both books.
But if you diss Baron W then I may take a dimmer view :-)
Paul wrote: "But if you diss Baron W then I may take a dimmer view :-) "I'll also take a dim view of my review if that happens. As with you, Paul, he is my favourite living writer (although when more of Mircea Cărtărescu's books are translated he might have to share my devotion).
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Guessing you've seen that Deep Vellum will be publishing another of his.
However Krasznahorkai doesn't have a book that's as much of a dud by general consensus as Why We Love Women
Antonomasia wrote: "However Krasznahorkai doesn't have a book that's as much of a dud by general consensus as Why We Love Women "Hah! Yes, that's one we'll pretend never appeared! But I'm really pleased that Deep Vellum are going to publish one of his, very lengthy, recent books and they're getting Sean Cotter to do the translation. I just wish the other two parts of the trilogy of which Blinding was the first part would get a publisher. I asked Deep Vellum about it and they might do it eventually, but it looks like being a long wait.
Of course, the other option is to learn Romanian which, in an ideal world of limitless time, I would do.
Remind of the title of the Baron W book, please? It’s been mentioned a few times and want to look it up.
WndyJW wrote: "Remind of the title of the Baron W book, please? It’s been mentioned a few times and want to look it up."Baron Wenkheim's Homecoming is the US title.
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Or improve French/Spanish/German. Being fluent in literary French would give access to a lot of novels translated from other European languages which are not available in English. (Amazon.fr shows French editions of Orbitor but only vol 3 is on GR)
Antonomasia wrote: "Declan wrote: "Antonomasia wrote: "Of course, the other option is to learn Romanian which, in an ideal world of limitless time, I would do."Or improve French/Spanish/German. Being fluent in liter..."
Yes, I live in Spain and am always astonished by the bredth of exciting translations from other European languages into Spanish (and Catalan).
Emily wrote: "Yes, I live in Spain and am always astonished by the bredth of exciting translations from other European languages into Spanish (and Catalan). "That's an interesting point that I've never considered before. Know any online bookstores w/ Spanish books? I'm usually pretty happy reading in Spanish, so long as it's not too ancient, and maybe my list of "I wish they'd translate" books would get smaller if I bought books from Latin American countries or Spain.
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https://www.facebook.com/events/40401...
Deborah Levy is also in Manchester at the same festival on 13th October, when the shortlisted authors will instead all be in London. The picture of her on the event page tells you what she thinks of that....https://www.facebook.com/events/72000...
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https://www.facebook.com/events/65450...
OK, they have corrected it. October 12th!
Hugh - apparently Amazon arranged by mistake for Atwood to be at Cheltenham a few weeks early :o)
Ella wrote: "Know any online bookstores w/ Spanish books? I'm usually pretty happy reading in Spanish, so long as it's not too ancient, and maybe my list of "I wish they'd translate" books would get smaller if I bought books from Latin American countries or Spain.."
I only know the bookshops here, and while La Central, for example, claims to ship abroad, it also charges 25 euros to ship to the US!
But lacentral.com or laie.es if you feel like looking at what you could be reading... :-P
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I was so excited about the shortlist discussions that I just went to board a plane about 45 minutes ago and realised I had left my suitcase in the lounge (which was in a completely different set of..."I'm relieved you didn't miss your plane :-)
It was a close run thing.
I finished Girl, Woman, Other and absolutely loved it. I haven't finished three of the others but this one has a good chance of winning IMHO. Here's my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Since there isn't a separate thread for Girl, Woman, Other, I'm assuming comments go in the thread for reading the book which began on July 24th. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Gumble's Yard wrote: "Hugh - apparently Amazon arranged by mistake for Atwood to be at Cheltenham a few weeks early :o)"I cracked up laughing that the mighty Amazon made such an egregious mistake. I wish I were one of those who got a copy of the book before the actual release date.
Hugh wrote: "I see they have announced a shortlist event with "some of the shortlisted authors" in Manchester on Friday 11th October. I would have been interested if I wasn't already committed to being away tha..."I've been looking for an excuse to go to London (not because the dollar is worth a lot and not because I can lament that Boris is the British Trump). I'm seriously considering it. Is this whole group from Britain? Will you all be there on October 11th?
Ella wrote: "Thanks, Sam.The reason I haven't talked about GWO is that it felt incredibly personal to me. I have written in that thread several times then just erased it all & left it alone. It's hard to put ..."
Ella, your post has me so intrigued. I loved GWO. I feel I got an education even though I wasn't expecting one. I hope you will review GWO or at least post your initial thoughts. This group seems non-judgmental though a bit sarcastic in a good way. I'd love to know your thoughts about what the book got right even if it's in a private message to me. I found myself wondering if what I was reading could possibly be true for more than the author. You'd open my mind.
The Mookse and the Gripes
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I enjoyed the Rushdie and felt he dealt with US politics in a far more entertaining and intelligent way than is done in DN. I'm afraid I agree with Paul on this one. I think most people will just abandon it after 100 pages or not bother at all.
I've not read the Obioma, but as I've seen comparisons to The Famished Road, for me one of the most tiresome Booker winners, I don't feel encouraged to follow that path.
I thought the Shafak was excellent until the end which became rather farcical.
Very pleased to see Girl Woman Other on the list. By far the best and most important British novel I've read this year. I hope this wins but my favourites usually don't.
I see Calder as the judge most likely to back this one.