ToL: Can someone explain the end to me?

[Nils]

So, obviously Spoiler territory here, but the end has me baffled.
What exactly was the conflict here? Coyote spoiled that all the Monsters running around were his thing. He wanted Mags and Neizghání to fight. But both are aware this was just a ruse.
Why would Neizghání then kill all of Maggies friends? Or even Kai? That conflict came totally out of the blue for me.
And what exactly has Kai done that he deserves Death (even if presumably faked/temporary) ? Because he lied to her (absolutely understandably) at the beginning of their relationship?
And where did the idea come from that the hoops could hold Neizghání? Did I miss that reveal? Weren't they supposed to catch someones breath or something?
I am really a bit flabbergasted by the finale - I mean, it is a by the tropes final confrontation of pupil and former mentor, yadda yadda, but I really lost the motives of all the players half-way through the book.

[Trike]

I don’t recall why the hoops were a thing. I think Coyote just wanted Neizghání dead because of their longstanding grudge. Maggie believes Kai will get better, so killing him allows her to trick the trickster.

Coyote duped Maggie into fighting Neizghání, but she was already angry at him because he abandoned her, so it didn’t take much of a push to get her to fight.

It definitely was muddled and somewhat unclear, but I think part of that is because Roanhorse doesn’t effectively convey that Maggie is just 19 or whatever.

[Fredrik]

The hoops weren't explained that I remember, but they were obviously a way to bind Neizghani, bypassing the need to beat him in a fight. I'm fine with the how being implied, the important part is why. Yea, Coyote duped Maggie, but Maggie also realised for herself she needed to defeat and banish Neizghani; both to be free of him and because he was dangerous to people as well as monsters.

[Iain]

Fredrik wrote: "The hoops weren't explained that I remember, but they were obviously a way to bind Neizghani, bypassing the need to beat him in a fight. I'm fine with the how being implied, the important part is w..."

Coyote, much like Loki in Norse mythology, likes amusing trouble and holds a grudge.

Neizghani is willing to leave if he can kill Kai. He recognises Kai as a liner and wants to eliminate him. Hence the confrontation.

Roadhouse got a little sloppy in that last bit...

[Molly]

Iain wrote: "Fredrik wrote: "The hoops weren't explained that I remember, but they were obviously a way to bind Neizghani, bypassing the need to beat him in a fight. I'm fine with the how being implied, the imp..."

I'm going to assume "Roadhouse" was an autocorrect, but I would love this to catch on as a nickname for Rebecca Roanhorse, lol.

[Nils]

So what was Neizghánís Motive for killing Kai? That Maggie liked him? Makes him even more despicable.
That is one of the faults of the Story - Neizghání is never, in any way, portrayed as sympathetic. Even Mags memories of him are about him being afraid, standoffish, etc. It's hard to see what she saw in him in the first place.
I do get that someone can like/love a Mentor figure that is flawed, but I prefer if they show that they have a positive side as well, and that was not portrayed very well beyond "he turned up and saved my life". Admittedly, that is a bog one, but she was with him for years. Would have been nice to see some of the good times they had together.

[Iain]

Iain wrote: "Fredrik wrote: "The hoops weren't explained that I remember, but they were obviously a way to bind Neizghani, bypassing the need to beat him in a fight. I'm fine with the how being implied, the imp..."

Oh, god... I should read what I write... How many typos can I have in one post :-(

Neizghani is willing to leave if he can kill Kai. He recognises Kai as a silver-tongue, a lier, and wants to eliminate him (he is treating him as a monster, Maggie just kills people so in't a monster... I do not think logic is a high priority for these mythic types). . Hence the confrontation.

[Trike]

Iain wrote: "Oh, god... I should read what I write... How many typos can I have in one post :-("

In your defense, you *do* have an extra I in Ian, so I blame your parents.

[Iain]

Trike wrote: "Iain wrote: "Oh, god... I should read what I write... How many typos can I have in one post :-("

In your defense, you *do* have an extra I in Ian, so I blame your parents."

That just means they can spell (unlike the English and Americans)....

Just today the Optometrist couldn’t find my current file (I had two one with Ian and another with Iain)....

[Ian (RebelGeek)]

Iain wrote: "Trike wrote: "Iain wrote: "Oh, god... I should read what I write... How many typos can I have in one post :-("

In your defense, you *do* have an extra I in Ian, so I blame your parents."

That jus..."

At least you pronounce it right, unlike Ian Ziering. People have a hard enough time pronouncing it without some actor muddying the waters.

[Nils]

Ok, maybe the book should have clarified a bit why Neizghání has such a hate on for silvertongues. Reading between the lines there may be some sort of Loki/Thor dynamic, where Silvertongues are Coyotes guys and Neizghání will kill them on principle.
Because I agree with you - confronted with one Lady whose powers are "Kill everything superfast" and a guy whose powers are "be convincing and heal everything", it is strange that the Silvertongue is the one that Needs to die.

[Iain]

Ian wrote: "Iain wrote: "Trike wrote: "Iain wrote: "Oh, god... I should read what I write... How many typos can I have in one post :-

At least you pronounce it right, unlike Ian Ziering. People have a hard enough time pronouncing it without some actor muddying the waters. "

Dear Lord, just found that....

Never heard that one before.

I know a lot of people cannot cope with my name (in Morocco I had people doing anagrams of my name on booking forms, and in Japan they can start saying it but cannot stop, like banananananana) but that one takes the cake "i an" really....

[John (Taloni)]

Yeah, the ending weirded me out. I read it last night (this morning?) on insomnia haze, and had already checked out the second book so started reading that. Then this morning I wake up thinking, "wait, what?"

So it seems like the ending is a total setup for A) Maggie to realize Coyote was fucking with her, so twisty twist. (I would hazard we have not yet begun to see how much Coyote was fucking with her.) Then it's on to B) the whole "fight your mentor" trope on the thinnest of justifications. As for the rings, huh?

Then there's the Thirsty Boys providing the video game fodder. No need to count how many of them die so that Mags can have her moment of clarity, so long as the Main Cast remains alive.

This is a comic-book type novel all the way down to the erratic powers. It doesn't need a whole lot of subtle plot. It does need a bangup ending. This isn't it.

[Ruth]

I also found the ending confusing, it all just felt very under-explained and under-motivated. It wasn’t at all clear to me why the hoops captured Neizghani, nor why Coyote did all the stuff he did.

For me, I think the characters’ motivations would have been clearer if there had been some flashbacks to Maggie and Neizghani together- as it was, I couldn’t really grasp why she was so obsessed with him.

[Nils]

Also extremely lazy - it's not like Mags realizes anything. Coyote straight up tells her what he has done. In one of the stupidest Bond villain ways I've ever seen. And then he gets shot for it. Which, again, I am pretty sure means nothing to an immortal like him, but there has been no indication about this at all. So, taking the book at face value, he told her "I f+++ed your live up" and gets shot for it.

And she still does everything he wanted.

[Robert]

Nils wrote: "
Why would Neizghání then kill all of Maggies friends? Or even Kai? That conflict came totally out of the blue for me."

I think the book established that Neizghání was an asshole. He wanted to kill Kai because Mags was his, he even branded her as his property (see asshole), and Kai was a suitor. As an immortal, Neizghání clearly thinks humans are toys to be played with and discarded when no longer fun (as Coyote does).

[Robin]

Neizghani claimed Kai attacked him. Also because Kai liked Maggie.

I agree the hoops were never really explained. Their use was hinted at in the discussion in Grace's library.

As for getting rid of Neizghani? They thought at the time they made the plan that he was creating all the monsters. When Coyote confessed to Maggie she killed Coyote. She used the hoops on Neizghani after that because he was a jerk and she needed to get rid of him.

Kai didn't really deserve to die for lying to Maggie, but they had to make it look good for Neizghani. (And I think Maggie needed a few days to herself without either of them around, so she could think. Guys tend to drive you crazy if there are more than one that wants your attention)

[Buzz]

Robin wrote: "Neizghani claimed Kai attacked him. Also because Kai liked Maggie...As for getting rid of Neizghani? They thought at the time they made the plan that he was creating all the monsters. When Coyote confessed to Maggie she killed Coyote. She used the hoops on Neizghani after that because he was a jerk and she needed to get rid of him. Kai didn't really deserve to die for lying to Maggie, but they had to make it look good for Neizghani. (And I think Maggie needed a few days to herself without either of them around, so she could think. Guys tend to drive you crazy if there are more than one that wants your attention)..."

Robin wins for the most clear explanation of the ending. That's exactly how I interpreted things...

[William]

Many years ago I played a lot of the Shadowrun RPG and as a result read a lot of mythology.

When the hoops turned up I immediately sat up straight as I seem to remember hoops very much like these were made by Changing Woman. If I remember rightly these hoops created a swirling wind that would keep monsters away.

This is a memory from the days when "Looking something up" involved a trip to the library.

[Matthew]

I found the whole kai thing with his premonitions in his dreams to be kind of convoluted

Part of it for me is I found the world building to be somewhat poor.

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

I thought it was hinted at throughout the book that not all 'monsters' Neizghani killed were monstrous. The end was kinda messy (the Coyote part in particular) but I got why killing Neizghani was needed. In the beginning, Mags sees herself as a monster and is surprised Neizghani spared her, but when she realises she isn't, she sees that the same is true of others.

[Jen]

Nils wrote: "So what was Neizghánís Motive for killing Kai? That Maggie liked him? Makes him even more despicable.
That is one of the faults of the Story - Neizghání is never, in any way, portrayed as sympathe..."

I 100% agree with you. I was excited for this novel at first but for me Maggie wasn't a very likeable character, to me she came off as being very weak willed so I was left unsatisfied with the book. I think a big part of what I didn't like about her was how so was so hung up on Neizghani and I just couldn't figure out why. He was an a-hole and treated her badly and yet she was so adamant about loving him. I get that he saved her life but honestly that felt incidental, like he was just there to kill the monster in the process she just happened to be saved by his actions. In the recent wrap up when Tom was saying he saw her as a victim of an abusive relationship things started making more sense. I still don't care for the story, maybe because I like my main characters to be more confident and kickass less woe-is-me, but I definitely feel more charitable about it now seeing it in that light.