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10/06 Infinite Jest by D. F. Wallace, Week 02
I'm only a couple pages into the new section,especially since footnote 24 was a little lengthy ;-). I loved footnote 24 because it was like searching for little gems of information to help with our understanding of the text. my favorite was the film that described the exact scene we had seen earlier between Hal and Himself impersonating a professional conversationalist. My favorite scene so far in the text was the section where Orin is playing football in a Cardinal costume. I loved that I was completely confused at first until halfway through that section. I suppose the point is to further demonstrate the subsidization of the culture. although making football players where such overwhelming costumes is pretty ridiculous.
Haha, yes KC that scene was great, but short. I hope we get to spend more time with Orin soon.Lots of dialogue in this section -- a large portion of the section was just two extended conversations, or at least that's how it seems.
Both conversations (Steeply and Marathe, the ETA students) touched on the topic of personal motivation...the reasons we put up with all of the hardships in life. I enjoyed Hal's mentoring session with the younger students, and also the glimpses into the other upperclassmens' mentoring sessions. I can sense the Peemster becoming a favorite side-character :)
We also met Kate Gompert, who seems to be in a very similar situation to Erdedy in the last section. It's interesting because you can see very clearly that all of these pieces belong to the same puzzle, and yet there is still not much indication of how they will fit together.
Another big thing that happened in this section was that we found out a lot more about what Steeply has named "The Entertainment", which ended up claiming over 20 victims in the attache's house. If anyone has not read the comments in the footnote thread, I definitely recommend it -- I'm pretty sure that we were on to something there regarding this subject.
I just read the section between Mario and Schtitt. can anyone explain the significance to me of Schtitt's point? I think he's summing it up here: "...junior athletics is but one facet of the real gem: life's endless war against the self you cannot live without." I get some of his philosophy on tennis about competing against yourself to transcend your own limits but this part stumps me. also.... any comments about the original motto for E.T.A.? "They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier." I definitely laughed at that but I'm guessing there's something behind it? or Dr. James Incandenza was just off his rocker when coming up with a motto? ;-)
KC wrote: "My favorite scene so far in the text was the section where Orin is playing football in a Cardinal costume."I'm going to have to go back and reread this section since I didn't conclude that Orin was playing football. I knew he was in some sort of feathered cumbersome Cardinal suit, but I was under the impression the scene had to do with like before the game, like some sort of pep rally publicity stunt. I thought Orin had said something about being afraid of heights, so I thought he was in some sort of Cardinal hang-glider apparatus. And he also mentioned how he "didn't sign up for this" when he signed onto the team. Anyway, I don't have my book with me so I will need to go back and reread tonight.
The Steeply and Marathe scene was bizarre. Again, we have another character (Steeply) in some sort of disguise. I kept laughing at his descriptions of how his "lady parts" were all wonky after his fall down the hill. John, you bring up a good point about how this scene brings up the issue of self-motivation. I wonder (did I miss this?) what is wrong with Marathe's wife and what he is trying to get for her well-being? Also, near the end of the scene we find out he is in a wheelchair because he has no legs. I think this, and maybe another scene previously in the book concerning another character, reference a much later footnote (304, I think?), which I have not read. It looks to be another very long footnote, but in the form of a side story. I'm not sure if I should read this footnote now, or when it is actually referenced in the text.Also, it seems there is some very important information here regarding who is in charge of who, and an organization which is against the O.N.A.N., I think? Frankly, this part got a bit confusing, especially when in both the text and one of the footnotes, we were told that Marathe was initially pretending to be an informant, but then he turned to actually pretending to pretend to be an informant (so he actually was an informant). And how much of this pretending did Steely know? I started glossing over this part...
I found this section much more difficult than the first. I guess it was a long section, with two long footnotes (if you read 304 which is referenced from note 45, as well as 24).A tiny point, but as a French speaker (France French) I was thrown by the rendering of 'wheelchair' as 'fauteuil rollent' instead of 'fauteuil roulant'. I wondered if French Canadians really say that. It's not just a question of spelling - it would sound different. If they don't say that in Canada, is it significant?
I've done some research about it online which I'll include as a spoiler: (view spoiler)
Linda wrote: "I was under the impression the scene had to do with like before the game, like some sort of pep rally publicity stunt."Actually, yes this is what I imagined as well.
Linda wrote: "It looks to be another very long footnote, but in the form of a side story. I'm not sure if I should read this footnote now, or when it is actually referenced in the text."
I wasn't sure about this either, Rosemary you say you've read it? Does it make sense, or is it referencing things we don't know?
Linda wrote: "I was under the impression the scene had to do with like before the game, like some sort of pep rally publicity stunt."I thought this also. Especially because they started stripping off their Cardinal costumes at the end of the scene.
Linda wrote: "It looks to be another very long footnote, but in the form of a side story. I'm not sure if I should read this footnote now, or when it is actually referenced in the text."
I wasn't sure about this either, Rosemary you say you've read it? Does it make sense, or is it referencing things we don't know?
I actually googled this, and it said that a reference to "sub." means something that we don't know yet but will come up later and the details are not important now, so I took that to mean we were not supposed to have read it now. I also googled "infinite jest footnote 304", and people say that you can read it now, but its meant to be read later. I plan on reading it later.
Can we make it so that if people want to discuss this footnote, they discuss it in the footnote spoiler thread? Thanks!
And what on earth is up with the feral hamsters? Anyone have ANY guesses on this one??
Kaycie wrote: "... a reference to "sub." means something that we don't know yet but will come up later and the details are not important now, so I took that to mean we were not supposed to have read it now.... I plan on reading it later."Thanks Kaycie! I had no idea was "sub" meant. I won't read the footnote right now either.
And what on earth is up with the feral hamsters? Anyone have ANY guesses on this one??
Ha ha!! Yeah, I had forgotten about the hamsters. NO idea, but it's weird and fun. Now I need to remember which part they were in and go back and reread.
I have commented on footnote 304 in the footnote thread
haha yeah, I forgot about those hamsters too!While we're discussing the environmental weirdness, would anyone be able to sum up what we've learned so far about the "Concavity" and/or the "Convexity"? Are there both of them or am I confusing things?
The impression I got was that it's some kind of wasteland in the approximate area of Vermont, and that it may have been caused by a garbage disposal accident? Or something? Again, I may be conflating something else I read in the text.
John wrote: "While we're discussing the environmental weirdness, would anyone be able to sum up what we've learned so far about the "Concavity" and/or the "Convexity"? Are there both of them or am I confusing things?Man, there is a lot of stuff to discuss. I had forgotten about the concavity stuff too - I need to be jotting down some more notes. :) I will need to go back and review this section too. I wonder if this is going to become a weekly routine - 1)read, 2)post comments, 3)reread most of the section again.
Linda wrote: "I wonder if this is going to become a weekly routine - 1)read, 2)post comments, 3)reread most of the section again."I think so!
Are the giant feral babies and the feral hamsters both in the Concavity?
Rosemary wrote: "Are the giant feral babies and the feral hamsters both in the Concavity?"I went back looking for these sections and basically reread the entire footnote #24 again! I will post on the footnote thread some notes I took hopefully later today if I have time.
So I searched for the hamsters and the concavity/convexity items. I found the feral hamsters are indeed in what is called the Great Concavity. Initially reading this, and not understanding what all this meant (well, I still don't...), I meant that to mean a gigantic plastic hamster ball of sorts. It said "convex protective walls.....Concavity clouds" in the "southern reaches of the Great Concavity in what used to be Vermont". Weird. I was also wondering what was meant by "ATHSCME" as in "giant protective ATHSCME fans".
In footnote 24, I did see the mention of "convex mirrors" in the film titled Cage (p.986).
And as for the giant feral baby, this was also in footnote 24 in the film titled Stand Behind the Men Behind the Wire: "documentary to track, verify, capture or propitiate the outsized feral infant alleged to have crushed, gummed, or picked up and dropped over a dozen residents of Lowell in January, YTMP." I was wondering if this giant infant was in reference to Mario somehow, since we know Mario physically has a large head?
Excellent research! I imagine this is one aspect where a Kindle would come into its own, for running searches (I know that's not what you did).I pictured the concavity as a kind of meteorite hole, but if it has convex protective walls, I can't really imagine what it would look like at all. Especially as concave and convex are relative terms - it can depend which side you're looking from (as with a spoon).
I had forgotten the giant baby was only in a movie ... but since it's a documentary, it sounds like at least the reports of its existence were real. Incandenza's interest in it might relate to Mario, though.
I see that Lowell, Mass is not far from the Vermont border. However, Vermont stretches a long way north from there. There's probably no connection between feral baby and feral hamsters!
Lots of funny parts in this section- Man in drag falling down a hill
- Wheel chair assassins ...The party's over when you hear the squeak. HAHA
- A man named Schtitt who the kids think is bats
etc
Alright guys, I, once again, had to google the concavity/convexity, and found a pretty good description of it. It was driving me crazy not knowing this, especially since we were talking about it so much.It doesn't appear that the link has spoilers, as I don't think we are really going to learn this explicitly from the book and if we do, its not that important. I won't write it here, though, just in case people don't want to read it until after they have finished IJ.
BUT, this summary complete with maps helped me tremendously. I was also picturing some kind of meteoric hole, and it just wasn't making sense.
http://figurativeink.wordpress.com/20...
Rosemary wrote: "I pictured the concavity as a kind of meteorite hole, but if it has convex protective walls, I can't really imagine what it would look like at all. Especially as concave and convex are relative terms - it can depend which side you're looking from (as with a spoon)."A meteorite hole is also what I pictured. And the convex walls is what you would see from OUTSIDE, like you said, they are relative terms. So that's why I imagined a hamster ball, as if the ball was imprinted down into a bed of sand.
YES! A search function would be ideal, but then I wouldn't have gotten all sidetracked and reread all of footnote 24! lol.
Interesting note about Lowell, Mass and Vermont.
The word "feral" certainly caught my eye, especially given its use in the context of both babies and hamsters.... :D I also found it amusing that the parent hamsters of the herd were named Ward and June (from Leave it to Beaver, I'm assuming). I wonder about the significance of that, or if it's just happens to be funny to name them that.
Kaycie wrote: "I won't write it here, though, just in case people don't want to read it until after they have finished IJ."Thanks, Kaycie! I think I would like to come back to this later as it sounds really useful. Would it be possible to post this link in the references tab?
Kaycie wrote: "BUT, this summary complete with maps helped me tremendously. I was also picturing some kind of meteoric hole, and it just wasn't making sense."Oh that is very enlightening! Thanks Kaycie!
I also pictured it as some kind of giant crater.
"Kaycie wrote: "BUT, this summary complete with maps helped me tremendously. I was also picturing some kind of meteoric hole, and it just wasn't making sense."That is wonderful! Thank you so much. But (view spoiler)
Spoiler tag so as not to give away what Kaycie's link leads to.
Rosemary wrote: "That is wonderful! Thank you so much. But (spoiler tag)"The impression I got was that (view spoiler)
Anybody catch the literary name drops in this section?Isn't Droogies from A Clockwork Orange?
scrotum tightening , James Joyce?
Mekki wrote: "Anybody catch the literary name drops in this section?Isn't Droogies from A Clockwork Orange?
scrotum tightening , James Joyce?"
No, I didn't catch those, but I also haven't read the books from where the references come from. I've only seen The Clockwork Orange movie, many years ago.
Neither have I read any James Joyce, but from our nominations thread, Zulfiya had mentioned this phrase from Ulysses: "The sea, the snotgreen sea, the scrotumtightening sea."
Good catch, Mekki!
Finally I've caught up to where I can read this thread and participate!In the second section with Marathe and Steeply, on page 107, there are a number of statements that struck me as a double entendre with themes of addiction. And the same again in the section on Hal's group meeting with his Big Buddy group. For example:
"You are what you love....what you would die for without...."
"The slave who believes he is free. The most pathetic of bondage." (The addict or alcoholic that is a slave to the drugs/drink but can't face it, look at it and call it what it is)
"Nothing brings you together like a common enemy." (So true in AA.)
Anyway, needless to say I found a lot of hidden meaning in the second section. I can see where a lot of people might put the book aside before getting past the first couple hundred pages - it's still intimidating, but all these hints and clues, random new characters, etc. are pulling me along for the ride.
Kristen, I agree -- I think the two conversations you reference were really important in articulating many of the main themes of the novel. They will probably be one of the first parts that I reread after I finish, as they deserve close inspection.
I found this week's section hard, especially the sections with Marathe. I am pleased I can read it in short amounts in this group.I looked at the questions. Q1, is there anyone who could be called an unhappy drugs user. It seems to me they are all unhappy from an outside perspective, but not from their own. At least if they choose to take the drugs, they are happy about it. Unhappy is when somebody prescribes something they don't want.
Q7, are the footnotes trustworthy. Well, there's a question. I am not a big reader of footnotes. This time I did read them, but they just seem to add extra layers of complexity. The idea they might not be trustworthy is one that did not come to me, but I find it provocative in a good way :-)
Carrie wrote: "Q7, are the footnotes trustworthy. Well, there's a question. I am not a big reader of footnotes. This time I did read them, but they just seem to add extra layers of complexity. The idea they might not be trustworthy is one that did not come to me, but I find it provocative in a good way :-)"In my excitement to start posting away, I failed to go back and reread Zulfiya's questions for the week. The question of the footnotes being trustworthy or not is something that had not occurred to me, so now I must think about that question a bit more. And it makes me wonder who is it that supposedly wrote the footnotes, who are we to consider the source of the footnotes and can we trust that person to be reliable. Interesting question!
Mekki wrote: "Anybody catch the literary name drops in this section?Isn't Droogies from A Clockwork Orange?
scrotum tightening , James Joyce?"
Good catch, Mekki. There are indeed a lot of literary allusions, especially in the conversation between Steely and Maranthe. One of them is about Helen of Troy whose face launched a thousand ships by Christopher Marlow's Doctor Faustus. It is amazing how Wallace combines high-brow and low-brow themes in his novel.
Linda wrote: "Carrie wrote: "Q7, are the footnotes trustworthy. Well, there's a question. I am not a big reader of footnotes. This time I did read them, but they just seem to add extra layers of complexity. The ..."Carrie and Linda, it seems like the whole novel is a never-ending jest, so the footnotes are logically there might have some 'red-herringness' in them.
Some of them obviously confuse me more than enlighten, but they are quite intriguing. I also wonder whether some of them are just pure literary bollocks just for the sake of literary pleasure.
Zulfiya wrote: "I also wonder whether some of them are just pure literary bollocks just for the sake of literary pleasure."It's almost like an inside joke between DFW and the reader. Like he's saying: "Only an extreme reader like you would put up with this footnote business, ha! You can handle it!"
And for that reason - this sort of one-on-one experience with the author - I'm enjoying the whole novel (and footnotes) even more.
Kristen wrote: "And for that reason - this sort of one-on-one experience with the author - I'm enjoying the whole novel (and footnotes) even more. "Well said Kristen, I totally agree with this!
I'm sorry everyone but I'm totally falling behind on this. I have two courses I'm taking and commitments for Nov. but I hope to keep reading and at least post late instead of not at all. I can't say that I'm particularly enjoying it yet, but I will press on slowly but surely.
As for me, it is all about hidden gems that gradually form a well-hidden pattern.
Zulfiya wrote: "The first week's discussion was quite a success, so I hope the second one will also be quite productive. Meanwhile, I still would like to ask you to be polite to each other and respect opinions of ..."The Role of Drugs
It's an escape... Hal, Himself, Erdeddy, the medical attache to Karen Gompert; whether it's drugs, or teleputer entertainment, all of these characters look to these extracurriculars as a form of escaping (mentally) thus alienating themselves further from society (physically). Hal's drug usage is interesting because he not only craves the high from this high resin pot, but seems to get the same high from the want and need to get to that "secret space" under the tunnels-Erdeddy too, fixates on the process to get high just as much as the actual high itself. Although Himself has had a drinking problem for most of his life, it seems the alcoholism escalated during the time in which he realized Avril was having an extra marital affair-alcohol to avoid life's problems. From what I understand of the medical attache, he's been watching "the entertainment" on a continuous loop for hours on end; unable to stop himself from watching, thus sending him into a catatonic state-He and anybody who watches it is left completely mesmerized by its content. Karen Gompert, who we are introduced to in the psychiatric ward, has a love affair with high resin pot unlike one I have noticed with the other characters...She's gone to extreme measures to rid herself from the one residual side effect of the pot that won't go away, by attempting suicide. She did not "want to hurt herself", she wanted to stop the "hurt"(78).
As it pertains to the first two sections, I think the characters who are using drugs are all unhappy. In fact, I don't think we've encountered any genuinely "happy" characters yet. There's an overwhelming sense of loneliness and the never-ending search for individualism (in both characters as well as the state of the nation as an O.N.A.Nite conglomerate)...Another possible reason igniting the necessity of drugs for certain characters?
KC wrote: "I just read the section between Mario and Schtitt. can anyone explain the significance to me of Schtitt's point? I think he's summing it up here: "...junior athletics is but one facet of the real g..."I'm surprised nobody has responded to your question, as I found this section to be very multi-layered and insightful into the social dynamics within ONAN and ETA. Schtitt's conversation with Mario, I thought, was about being narrow-minded and the inability to look at the big picture, in the pursuit of a goal (personal happiness).
Schtitt describes how in a modern U.S of A a boy must surrender to the acknowledged primacy of a straight-line approach in getting from point A to point B, without taking into consideration what exists between A and B, pursuing this flat and short-sighted idea of personal happiness(83). Instead, Schtitt would rather people take into account what could possibly exist between the two points and still be able to move forward attaining more than just getting to point B.
Keeping in mind Schtitt was brought up in a pre-ONAN world, where jr. athletics was about learning to sacrifice the hot narrow imperatives of the Self-the needs, the desires, the fears, the multiform cravings..., he believes an athlete will be better equipped and have the ability to become well-disciplined and begin assembling the more abstract, gratification-delaying skills necessary for being a 'team player'(83). There's too much emphasis on individualism (the self) and not enough focus on "team." To Schtitt, real sacrifice means to surrender giving one the ability to achieve beyond the self, instead of sacrificing for the self. This is also reiterated during Struck's Big Buddy session while explaining Schtitt's ideologies "What are you willing to part with...What are you willing to give...It's about discipline and sacrifice and honor to something way bigger than your personal ass. He'll say it's how to learn to be a good American during a time, boys, when America isn't good its own self" (120).
Take for example, Hal and some of the other characters who seem to find an escape, or achieve momentary happiness directly in drugs, proving the story, the shortest way between two places is the straight line; thus, it is not always the most efficient approach. They sacrifice themselves in so many detrimental ways instead of surrendering to themselves...Right? They are perpetually short-sighted unable to quench their need for gratification for any period other than in the "now"(83). Schtitt's theory and ideology are the antithesis of those practiced by Hal, Erdeddy, Karen, etc-he's (Schtitt) a foil character, I think.
As to the specific quote you are referencing ..junior athletics is but one facet of the real gem: life's endless war against the self you cannot live without(84), summarizes Schtitt's multi-layered diatribe, essentially saying...Willpower/obedience and an abandonment of the soul trump instant gratification.
Interlacing Plot Lines and Some other interesting bits from this section...I do, I do see the connection between certain plot lines. Although, it is minimal at this juncture, it's still just as impactful.
Towards the end of the Mario Schtitt bit, right before Mario caught his shoulder on a dumpster and almost fell,Mario thinks of a steel pole raised to double its designed height...(84). Anybody else, while reading this line, think of the discussion between Mario and Hal talking about the two ways to lower a flag at half mast? Hal and Mario were discussing their father's death and Hal mentions the two ways to lower a flag at half mast saying, one way to lower the flag to half mast is just to lower the flag. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height. You got me? You understand what I mean, Mario?(42). What made him think of the double length pole at that time?
Tiney Ewell's mystery roommate, who we found entranced by the roar of the air conditioner in their room...I'm not 100% sure about the chronological placement of this section in relation to the other sections we have read, but I thought this man who has a look that attends detox from late-stage alcoholism was actually James Incandenza (86)?
It would seem the connection between Avril and the medical attache was that they were both at Brandeis during the same time...Film directors wife'd taught out at Brandeis where the victim'd done his residency, Avril was teaching and the attache doing his residency (91).
A lot of information on Avril Incandenza in this section ...Her multiple sexual relations with just about anybody with a Canadadian pulse(92), 3 years on the Personnes Qui On Doit while in grad school (92), she was from the L'Islet County of Quebec, the very same place Luria Perec was from. Some of these details were actually brought up in the first section during Hal's appointment with the professional conversationalist/Himself. Himself alludes to Avril's sordid liaison with the pan-Canadian Resistance's notorious M.DuPlessis and his malevolent but allegedly irresistible amanuensis-cum-operative, Luria P___(30)?
As far as the Entertainment, would I be correct in speculating James Incandenza made the film...Boston offices reports possible indications of the victim's prior possible involvement with the widow of the 'auteur' we both know was responsible for the Entertainment in the first place.(91)?
Ami wrote: "I'm surprised nobody has responded to your question, as I found this section to be very multi-layered and insightful into the social dynamics within ONAN and ETA."Ami, thank you for such a detailed answer to KC's question. I was waiting for someone to address this, as I am seemingly fixated on the details of the story, but have a hard time fully understanding, let alone put into words, some of the larger themes that are being explored.
As for the part when Mario runs into the dumpster and thinks of the steel pole - yes, I did immediately remember Mario and Hal's conversation about lowering the flag. Again, I am at a loss for what this means. Even though I'm reading this book with a group, which has been so helpful so far, I can already totally see the benefit in rereading this one.
I missed the "late-stage alcoholism" phrase to describe Tiny Ewell's roommate, so I had not thought of James as being this person. I'll have to go back and see if we can tell from the text when this section is to have taken place.
Linda wrote: "Rosemary wrote: "Are the giant feral babies and the feral hamsters both in the Concavity?"I went back looking for these sections and basically reread the entire footnote #24 again! I will post o..."
I was also wondering what was meant by "ATHSCME" as in "giant protective ATHSCME fans"
Linda the ATHSCME fans displace air from the the ground above to be sucked down and around the room and up into the three exhaust vents as it pertains to the Enfield Tennis Academy's tennis courts, I think (52). It must displace toxic air? I'm not sure of the exact acronym at this point, I very well could have missed it.
Ami wrote: "Linda the ATHSCME fans displace air from the the ground above to be sucked down and around the room and up into the three exhaust vents as it pertains to the Enfield Tennis Academy's tennis courts, I think (52). It must displace toxic air? I'm not sure of the exact acronym at this point, I very well could have missed it."Yeah, I was wondering what the acronym stood for. I'm guessing it must be the company name that manufactures the fans, but I missed if it stood for something.
Once again I will give my own responses to these leading questions and my own thoughts about the book so far before I read what other people have written.1. What is the role of drugs in the narrative? Is there anyone who can be called an unhappy drug user?
So far I just see it as a standard addiction, nothing all that surprising. I think they are all unhappy drug users, even Hal. I view his drug use as a rebellion against the overwhelling control of the world over his life. As he said, it's not so much the drug as the fact that he is doing it in secret. That there is some small part of himself that he can keep hidden and free from their control.
2. We learn something about Hal's father, but is it enough to understand the story behind the story, the connection that we are all seeking?
Not so far, unless I’ve missed something. Then again I have read the big filmography bit yet.
3. Did you notice interlacing connections between the plot lines. Actually, right now it is a stretch to call these emerging stories plot lines, but hopefully I will see something more in them soon. NB. I am not revealing anything here because I still need to read the last five or six pages in this week's selection.
Hmm, a few small connections but not really yet. I’m sure they’ll come with time.
4. What do you think about Marantne and Steeply's plot line?
That was really weird. An agent in drag, another in a wheelchair, very bizarre.
5. Tennis practice and football practice play a significant role in the novel page-wise. Do you think it is justifiable? Can you speculate why this part of the novel could be significant?
Well there is the over marketization reflecting itself in society, there is also the overwhelming control exhibited by the tennis school which is the complete opposite to the more extreme of the drug takers.
6. What do you think about the footnotes? How about the footnote about the filmography? It was extensively discussed in the special thread, but do you see its relevance for the para-text (the novel itself)?
I haven’t read the filmography yet – I was rather put off by the small type, but I will rectify this shortly. The filmography looks like it could be useful in working out some of the timeline at least.
7. Are the footnotes trustworthy?
Not really
I don’t currently have the book for reference so if anyone is reading this please excuse any vagueness. I found this chunk of reading much more difficult than the first 60 pages, at least some of it. I had to remind myself not to get hung up on the specifics of words and that if I wasn’t following whole conversations then it didn’t really matter. They would have been made so difficult on purpose so it was likely I could just let it slip past me and pick up the general gist of what was going on. I also am really getting lost in all of the O.N.A.N’s and the like. The characters I can (just about) keep track off but not those sorts of things, I’m totally floundering.
I once again noticed references to ‘digesting’. The first time I saw this was in Hals interview at the very start of the book – at first I thought it was rather esoteric fart joke but I’ve seen the work ‘digest’ used several more time. This is a consumer society – it will drain you of everything you’ve got and use you for its own ends.
I also saw a few references to books (Ulysses and A Clockwork Orange) so harking back to the question from the first section this world seems to be pretty close to our own. In literature anyway. Canada and the States are at war and it looks like Canada is getting the better of it? I might have to re-read a bit here or maybe I’ll just continue on and trust it will be made clear as I progress.
I saw the first standard date, 1989 I think it was, this was before the calendar was subsidized. Hilarious.
Toilet humour jokes abounded in this section with lots of references to Schitt and Schatt. One bit in the showers even had Schatt(?) squatting down in classic defecation posture.
There was also a reference to Martin Luther, again associated with toilet humour as Martin Luther was rather obsessive with his interest in bowel functions and would ‘throw shit at the devil’ and engage in farting competitions with him as well. Exactly what the point of all this was I cannot yet say. Perhaps it just goes to show that no matter how intelligent the mind boys love their shit jokes…
I’m sure I had another couple of points but I can’t remember them right now.
P.S. Hamsters!? WTF!?
KC wrote: "I just read the section between Mario and Schtitt. can anyone explain the significance to me of Schtitt's point? I think he's summing it up here: "...junior athletics is but one facet of the real g..."This was one of the conversations that threw me. What the hell were they talking about?
John wrote: "haha yeah, I forgot about those hamsters too!While we're discussing the environmental weirdness, would anyone be able to sum up what we've learned so far about the "Concavity" and/or the "Convexi..."
That was another part that had me just going 'huh?'.
Kaycie wrote: "Alright guys, I, once again, had to google the concavity/convexity, and found a pretty good description of it. It was driving me crazy not knowing this, especially since we were talking about it s..."Oh that's great. That's cleared that up! And also shows that it wasn't lost in some sort of war although the relations between the two countries is clearly still not the best.
Kristen wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "I also wonder whether some of them are just pure literary bollocks just for the sake of literary pleasure."It's almost like an inside joke between DFW and the reader. Like he's s..."
We're interfacing :-)
Rosemary wrote:But [I thought US and Canada had merged, so how can they still be arguing over a boundary? (hide spoiler)]I also found that strange. I thought in the first section it talked about them being joined and then what I was reading seemed to indicate they were at war or the next thing to it.
No doubt it will all be made clear further in.
Hey Nicola, you can definitely rest assured that all of this stuff gradually starts to make sense later! You just have to be willing to have no idea what is going on for a bit :)I will have to look up that info about Martin Luther, I had never heard that about him before.
Nicola wrote: "I think they are all unhappy drug users, even Hal. I view his drug use as a rebellion against the overwhelling control of the world over his life. As he said, it's not so much the drug as the fact that he is doing it in secret. That there is some small part of himself that he can keep hidden and free from their control."Nice. I agree with your observation, Nicola.
I also am really getting lost in all of the O.N.A.N’s and the like. The characters I can (just about) keep track off but not those sorts of things, I’m totally floundering.
Like John said, everything will slowly come together. I initially began taking notes of all the characters and acronyms, but eventually I didn't need to anymore. Of course that didn't occur until ~250 pages in...
P.S. Hamsters!? WTF!?
ha ha! :)
Reading the Chunksters
Books mentioned in this topic
A World Lit Only by Fire: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance: Portrait of an Age (other topics)A Clockwork Orange (other topics)
Dr. Faustus (other topics)
A Clockwork Orange (other topics)
A Clockwork Orange (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
James Joyce (other topics)James Joyce (other topics)
James Joyce (other topics)
So, this week, I have prepared more opaque questions, so you would not consider them too 'spoiley'
1. What is the role of drugs in the narrative? Is there anyone who can be called an unhappy drug user?
2. We learn something about Hal's father, but is it enough to understand the story behind the story, the connection that we are all seeking?
3. Did you notice interlacing connections between the plot lines. Actually, right now it is a stretch to call these emerging stories plot lines, but hopefully I will see something more in them soon. NB. I am not revealing anything here because I still need to read the last five or six pages in this week's selection.
4. What do you think about Marantne and Steeply's plot line?
5. Tennis practice and football practice play a significant role in the novel page-wise. Do you think it is justifiable? Can you speculate why this part of the novel could be significant?
6. What do you think about the footnotes? How about the footnote about the filmography? It was extensively discussed in the special thread, but do you see its relevance for the para-text (the novel itself)?
7. Are the footnotes trustworthy?
Again, guys, if you think that I am revealing anything beyond page 121, you are mistaken. I am currently on page 115, so I am actually slightly behind. All the things that are eventually significant in questions are just a literary gut feeling. You know better than me that we readers start picking up clues, even where they do not exist :-)
Again, questions are non-binding; please discuss this week's part freely without any constraints except spoilers from future weeks's material.
I will do my best to participate in the discussion as often as I can. I promise all things come to an end, and this one will, too. :-)
Personally, I enjoyed shopping online buying new things for the house that will be purchased on Wednesday. Cart before the horse, I know:-)