Japanese Light Novel Book Club discussion
General Discussion
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General Blah Blah Blah
Congratulate on 100 members!Speaking of games, does everyone know Visual Novel? It has text at the bottom of the window, pictures of characters, and music, sometimes voice. I've made some in Japanese, I want you to play them someday.
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They're commercial works. Seeing your comments, I feel like that there aren't amateurs' works that you can play on PC. They might be very minor.
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...Which is why I'll always stick with Nintendo (yay goofy graphics with fun stories and/or concepts!)
Selena wrote: "US gamers seem to think that games without copious amounts of gore, guns, and violence aren't worth playing."I can imagine that. XD
Can you think that VNs aren't games but something like electronic books? I wonder if everyone more often plays/reads them when they think that VNs are something like novels or mangas on PC.
I think that those who like animes, mangas, and lightnovels like visual novels too.
Fanta wrote: "Can you think that VNs aren't games but something like electronic books? I wonder if everyone more often plays/reads them when they think that VNs are something like novels or mangas on PC."I have a friend who plays these like wild, but she has to go to a lot of trouble to do it, and I'm fairly certain she's downloading them illegally. She showed me the amount of steps she had to go through to play whatever game she was on that day's sequel, and it was pretty daunting. (I don't do much PC gaming, though, so maybe it's all a total pain?)
I don't know much about it, but since she buzzes through piles of fan translated VNs, there must be a decent English speaking fanbase for them.
Mod
There have been a few games made in the US that strike me as similar to a VN, like The Wolf Among Us. I think that genre's referred to as "interactive drama" or something like that.
Selena wrote: "There have been a few games made in the US that strike me as similar to a VN, like The Wolf Among Us. I think that genre's referred to as "interactive drama" or something like that."Those games are actually really popular right now, at least with nerds like my friends and I. In conversation, though, we just call them Telltale games, because the company that makes them is so synonymous with the style. There's not quite enough puzzles for them to be a traditional adventure game, and there's too much other stuff going on to be a real VN.
I'm playing their first Walking Dead game now, though, and having turned the text on past just the voices, a lot of it is strikingly similar to what I imagine a VN being. There's a major focus on relationship building (like, did you tell the truth to so-and-so, did you check on the little girl you're watching when she was hurt). I get the impression that my choices don't really impact the story, though.
Mod
Some LNs give you more control over the story than others. Steins;Gate has multiple endings depending on your actions, but other VNs, like Professor Layton (I've seen it counted as one, but maybe it's not in Japan?), only has one path through the story.
Yeah, Professor Layton has its sequels in Japan.Some VNs have one path, and some have Choices, which lead you to various endings, bad endings, normal endings, happy endings, and the true ending. Generally the true ending is the longest and the goal of the game. They aren't gamebooks, but they have similar points.
Selena, did you still need anyone to test that game? I've got a bit of spare time next week if you're still looking for testers - I used to game a lot :)
Mod
Nope. Don't need anymore testers. :) We finished this up last week. I'll be posting an updated version sometime this week for people who want to play the final version of the game, but we don't need feedback anymore.
Fanta wrote: "Yeah, Professor Layton has its sequels in Japan.Some VNs have one path, and some have Choices, which lead you to various endings, bad endings, normal endings, happy endings, and the true ending. ..."
Generally no choices = Kinectic Visual Novel.
The others are just called visual novel.
But you have branching paths off a main route...normally this is just early dead/bad/good endings and different endings. Saya no Uta is a good example of this.
You also have multiple routes, Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime are well known examples of this. Pretty much all of the datingish ones fall under this.
Then you have the "one true route". Where all other routes are true, and you must clear certain conditions in the other routes to open up the true one, normally it's a big twist and involves time travel or alternate dimensions and other nonsense.. I would post examples of these but it's spoilers.
It seems that Kinetic (Visual) Novel means some VisualArt's' works in Japan.Actually there isn't a common or general name of these games here. I think Novel Game is most used, but some say that the name is strange because they little have "elements of games" = "player's interaction by their strategy". Even if they have choices, it's just a "switch" to see other ending.
Selena wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Selena, did you still need anyone to test that game? I've got a bit of spare time next week if you're still looking for testers - I used to game a lot :)"Nope. Don't need anymore t..."
Cool! Looking forward to checking it out :)
I played Kanon. It was interesting because most choices didn't matter really. They were a fork that came back together later. But some decisions were really important.In that, there's no real true ending, just ending up with the different girls. Or you could die.
The funny part is that all choices had 2 options, and a lot were false dichotomies. For example, I have to decide how I feel about this girl and my options are "love her with all of my heart" and "she means nothing to me". That one obviously mattered a ton in the story. Or some had very unclear options. For example you have to wake your cousin, and your options are "plan A" and "plan B". ummmm...
Yeah, some options are easy to understand, but some are difficult, "What's the difference between this options?" I suppose they might be hospitality or playful spirit of creators.
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Has everyone in the U.S. read the Bible and Mother Goose? I heard the reason The Da Vinci Code sold well was that it was a thriller related to the Bible.
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I think part of the reason The Da Vinci Code sold so well is that the US is full of conspiracy nuts. I haven't read The Da Vinci Code, but isn't it about a conspiracy to hide Jesus's lineage with all these complicated puzzles and stuff?
As for Mother Goose, I'm not sure. I know I read Mother Goose, but I don't know if anyone else ever did. I think that a lot of people are aware of a few Mother Goose tales, but they probably don't know that those nursery rhymes are from Mother Goose. Kind of like everyone knows some version of The Little Mermaid, but no one knows the original, nor that it was written by Hans Christian Anderson (I know this because I'm a geek lol)
Fanta wrote: "Has everyone in the U.S. read the Bible and Mother Goose? I heard the reason The Da Vinci Code sold well was that it was a thriller related to the Bible."I would say most of America has "read" the Bible as in have read parts of it and might claim they have read all of it. But I bet the number of people that have actually read all of it and not just excerpts is <40%. The older generation having a much higher % then the younger. The Da Vinci Code is a thriller and thrillers do really well in America, and yes the plot was based around the Christian faith and thus the Bible.
Did people read the Bible in school? Or did their parents made them read it home? I tried to read it, but it was so thick that I felt dizzy and stopped reading at the early chapter. XDMother Goose isn't as famous as the Bible, is it? I see.
I'm not from the US, but it's considered a classical reading here, therefore we read it during High School as Classical Literature. I didn't particularly read it all, I just went through the chapters the professor asked for.And Mother Goose? Not really...
Wow, Classical Literature. It looks same as we read Natsume Soseki in class. I see, everyone reads the Bible more or less.
Fanta wrote: "Did people read the Bible in school? Or did their parents made them read it home? I tried to read it, but it was so thick that I felt dizzy and stopped reading at the early chapter. XD"Well, in the US, unless you go to a private school, there are laws against reading the Bible at school- as a part of a class- to maintain the separation between the church and the government. In college, it's perfectly fine, and I'm in a religion class right now, but in government funded grade schools, junior highs, or high schools, it's a major "no."
That being said, a lot of stories and ideas from the Bible-- not the whole thing-- really show up a lot in American culture. Like Aaron said, knowing parts of it is really common. However, it's only really religious families who make a habit of reading the whole thing.
I had a friend when I was younger who, if I went to her house, her family would read a Bible chapter before every meal, going through the whole book over and over. I don't think that sort of thing is uncommon, really, but it's not what most families seem to do, at least in my area.
Fanta wrote: "Has everyone in the U.S. read the Bible and Mother Goose? I heard the reason The Da Vinci Code sold well was that it was a thriller related to the Bible."In America, its impossible to not know something about the Bible. As others have said a great number of people here are Christian and parts of it have really gotten into our culture. Only the devoted read the Bible cover to cover, but everyone's familiar with parts of it even if they've never touched one.
Mother Goose, not as common. I've never read/heard it.
Fanta wrote: "Has everyone in the U.S. read the Bible and Mother Goose? I heard the reason The Da Vinci Code sold well was that it was a thriller related to the Bible."Being Christian, I have read the bible, and since pretty much every dude who wrote the constitution was Christian, it's impossible for an American to not know at least something about the bible--like the fact that it exists. Yet I don't know every part of the bible. I've only read a little bit, like, when I'm in church and stuff. But maybe that's just cuz I'm not super religious. I'm sure a more devout follower would be able to quote any line there.
I have also read Mother Goose, but that was so long ago I barely remember it. I was probably only 4-5 when I read it.
Mod
I'm sure you've heard some Mother Goose. "Little Bopeep"? "Pat-a-Cake"? "Jack and Jill"? "Baa baa Black Sheep"?
Here's a whole list of them: http://www.fidella.com/trmg/title.html
Brandon wrote: "...since pretty much every dude who wrote the constitution was Christian..."For the record, a lot certainly were, but others were more Deist, and some we're not quite sure.
Selena wrote: "Parker wrote: "Mother Goose, not as common. I've never read/heard it."
I'm sure you've heard some Mother Goose. "Little Bopeep"? "Pat-a-Cake"? "Jack and Jill"? "Baa baa Black Sheep"?
Here's a who..."
Ooooooh ok yeah.
The story that takes root and is common to people is interesting because we don't have such a thing. For us, it might be only Momotaro (and Urashima Taro, Kaguya Hime, that's about it). :)Seeing Parker's reaction, by any chance, isn't Mother Goose known as the name "Mother Goose"? Is it because of a generic name?
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Seeing Parker's reaction, by any chance, isn't Mother Goose known as the name "Mother Goose"? Is it because of a generic name?"
I see an awful lot of "Alice in Wonderland" in anime as well, so maybe that's fairly common knowledge? lol
As for Parker's reaction, it's more that people don't associate the nursery rhymes with anything in particular. I didn't know "Baa Baa Black Sheep" or "Jack and Jill" were Mother Goose either, but I know the rhymes. It's more like everyone knows the rhymes and stories, but not where they come from.
Most people probably couldn't tell you that "Cinderella" is from The Brothers Grimm or that "The Little Mermaid" was written by Hans Christian Anderson either, but they know the stories by heart. The only reason I know it is because I am super geek and know more than should be legal about fairy tales in general. lol
Selena wrote: "As for Parker's reaction, it's more that people don't associate the nursery rhymes with anything in particular. I didn't know "Baa Baa Black Sheep" or "Jack and Jill" were Mother Goose either, but I know the rhymes. It's more like everyone knows the rhymes and stories, but not where they come from...."Bingo.
Fanta wrote: "The story that takes root and is common to people is interesting because we don't have such a thing. For us, it might be only Momotaro (and Urashima Taro, Kaguya Hime, that's about it). :)"
The Christian religion has its ancient text, the Bible. I read that Shinto has the same kind of texts. Fanta, do Japanese people read all of the Kojiki and Nihonshoki? Would they learn it at school or at home? Would they know some of the stories even though they maybe haven't read all of the text?
Ordinary Japanese don't read Kojiki and Nihonshoki. If they are asked about them, they'd answer, "I just know the title of them." Some people read them in class actually, but I suppose the total is about 10 hours in their 12 years in school. Though some read them personally, they are a minority.I suppose the relation between Japanese and Kojiki, Nihonshoki, and Shinto is different from the relation between western people and the Bible. We have some cultures from Shinto, but we don't know that they are from it (yes, me too. I just knew some, checking it on Wikipedia now). We're not aware and don't care. We're people who celebrate Christmas even though we're not Christian and we know it.
Fanta wrote: "Ordinary Japanese don't read Kojiki and Nihonshoki. If they are asked about them, they'd answer, "I just know the title of them." Some people read them in class actually, but I suppose the total is..."Thanks, Fanta. I find the interrelationship between faith and culture around the world very interesting.
Do you guys think "It is written." means "Destiny"? I've seen this expression in two stories, which are the book "Alchemist" and the film "Slumdog Millionaire". Is this a common expression in English?
Fanta wrote: "Do you guys think "It is written." means "Destiny"? I've seen this expression in two stories, which are the book "Alchemist" and the film "Slumdog Millionaire". Is this a common expression in English?"In English we understand the concept, however more natural sentences would be "Our destiny is already written" or "We write our own destiny."
I haven't read The Alchemist but from what I can see on google "It is written" is an English translation of an Arabic word.
In English you could say "So it is written" but it sounds archaic. "So it is written" is found in the Bible but that is also a translation of an ancient text.
Interesting. I get each impression from that two sentences. "Our destiny is already written" seems that someone writes it and we can't change it, whereas "We write our own destiny" seems that we can make and change our destiny.For "Our destiny is already written" and "So it is written", if someone asked who writes, would the answer be God?
Normally I might see that in an old story. I personally always interpreted "So it is written" as after a decision has been made they are set and locked on a course and can't turn off it and it's sudo religious but it's more god has recorded our action and is writing down the results right now if that makes sense. While "Our destiny is already written" I haven't seen used as an expression.Normally though in America "you chart your own destiny" or something on that theme is a way way more common expression.
"Write" is old style, but it seems to me that you guys still understand the concept, I see.
Does romaji (Romanization of Japanese) help English speakers to pronounce Japanese words (not correctly but to some extent)?For example, when you get just "由々しい", I think you wouldn't pronounce it at all. But if you get also "yuyushii", can you try to pronounce it?
Plus, is it difficult or painful to read a sentence of romaji and read it aloud? For example,
それ は 由々しい 事態 です。
sore ha yuyushii jitai desu.
(Incidentally, "由々しい" means roughly "Serious" and the sentence means "It is a serious situation." or "It is a thing that we never allow to happen.")
Mod
An American totally unfamiliar with Japanese might pronounce the それ as "sore" (like the word for being in pain), they would pronounce は as ha instead of wa, 由々しい as yu yu shy, 事態 with "ji" rhyming with pie and tai more like tay, and です would probably end up as "dee sue." (I used the kanji and kana rather than the romaji just so it's more obvious which words I mean, but I'm referring to the romaji)
I think it's more to help people who can't read kanji and kana rather than helping with pronunciation.
I have the impression there are many people who like Haruki Murakami. I guess the reason he's popular is that his works are good, and also I guess they might be easier to get than other Japanese books, for example, they're more often translated and placed in bookstores. Is it right?
Fanta wrote: "I have the impression there are many people who like Haruki Murakami. I guess the reason he's popular is that his works are good, and also I guess they might be easier to get than other Japanese bo..."I see his books at bookstores all the time, so I think the ability to find his books is a plus. Mainstream magazines will interview him, too- I don't remember if I read about him in Entertainment Weekly or Rolling Stone this summer, but neither magazine focuses on literature.
I'd like to read one of his books sometime, but don't know where I would begin. They are popular and easy to find, though, especially IQ84. I think I might have even seen that at Target once, which is a general stuff store, not a bookstore.
Many chance to see his books make him more famous, don't they? Are there any other Japanese authors who are often seen? Natsume Soseki? Keigo Higashino? (I wonder if Banana Yoshimoto is famous not in U.S. but in Europe.) I imagine they aren't seen as often as Haruki Murakami.Allison wrote: "I'd like to read one of his books sometime, but don't know where I would begin. They are popular and easy to find, though, especially IQ84. I think I might have even seen that at Target once, which is a general stuff store, not a bookstore. "
Though I've read only Norwegian Wood in his works, I think the easiest to get book when you want to read is appropriate.
In Europe you can find nowadays in nearly every bookstore the works of Murakami. I believe this has to do with the fact that he has been nominated these last years for the Nobel Prize.but you can also find works by Kazuo Ishiguro or Soseki Natsume.
there is also a french or belgian editor who is specialized in thr publishing of asian literary works (most of them are japanese works) :)
I forgot Kazuo Ishiguro, but it seems to me he's British from his Wikipedia. The official language in Luxembourg is French, right? Do you read the French edition of a Japanese book? I think there are few Japanese books translated to English and fewer books translated to French.
Well we have three official languages : luxemburgish (yes, it does really exist! ;) ), german and french. I read some books in french but most of them I read in english. I am looking forward to read them soon in japanese though ! haha In a french bookshop you might find writers like Yasushi Inoue, Mineko Iwasaki (Geisha of Gion is the title in english I guess, great book by the way), Yasunari Kawabata, Yukio Mishima, the two Murakamis of course but also some works of Aki Shimazaki or Yoko Ogawa, who became really famous these last years in Europe.
(By the way the french publisher specialized in asian literture is Piquier ;) )
Japanese Light Novel Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Reborn as a Vending Machine, I Now Wander the Dungeon, Vol. 1 (other topics)Little Princess in Fairy Forest (other topics)
Little Princess in Fairy Forest (other topics)
Zoo (other topics)
Queen of K'n-Yan (other topics)
More...
EDIT: I asked the group, and they've fixed it. I'll be posting a new version of the game later tonight for everyone to play around with. :)