Series: "Strange the Dreamer" & "Muse of Nightmares" by Laini Taylor

[Meredith]

Welcome to the buddy read of the Strange the Dreamer duology! Written by the talented and creative Laini Taylor.

We are starting off with a buddy read of #1: Strange the Dreamer, August 27.

Reading date for #2 Muse of Nightmares will be determined at a later point, possibly not too long after #1 (watch this space or the Buddy Read discussion thread).

Except for general or first impression comments, please use spoiler tags and indicate chapter/percent as you read so folks can follow the discussion as they read at different paces.

Once folks start reading the second book please indicate which book you are discussing. We'll assume everyone is reading #1 Strange the Dreamer for the first part of this thread.

[Meredith]

Who's in??

Sorry I didn't get the thread up sooner, I was trying to clear the decks so I could start this. I'm really looking forward to it. I really really enjoyed Taylor's Daughter of Smoke and Bone trilogy.

[Jacqueline]

I might come in for Muse of Nightmares. I read Strange the Dreamer at the beginning of the year and loved it. I read Daughter of Smoke and Bone last year and loved it too. I’m definitely a fan of Laini Taylor’s writing.

[Gabi]

I'm in! It looks like I will finish my current eye read in time.

[Gabi]

Ieks! What ghastly beginning is this?

[Jill]

I read this earlier this year and loved it! Looking forward to following the discussion here.

[Dawn F]

I’m about halfway but loved the fairytaley writing style from the get go. It’s rather lyrical too, without being flowery.

Also, seraphim <3

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I've already read them but you know I'll be coming here to chat!! I hope you all get swept away by the prose.

[Chris]

I started early and am near the 2/3 point. Enjoying it.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm mostly done this, as I started a bit early.

I'm enjoying it overall, though I could've used a bit more development to (view spoiler)[the relationship, and not undying, eternal love after 3 days... (hide spoiler)]

[Kristin B.]

Gabi wrote: "Ieks! What ghastly beginning is this?"

I know! It was such a captivating opening. I was hooked right from that first scene.

Re: Colleen's point in the spoiler: Big Same!

I finished the book earlier this month, and will be jumping into Muse as soon as I can force my way through WoK.

Below is my review for Strange, I think it sums up how I felt about it. (Warning, it is long winded and gushing. Not any specific spoilers, but there are a few highlighted quotes, so if you are spoiler averse I would avoid it until you are done.)

(view spoiler)[I mentioned in a thread recently that I couldn't pinpoint exactly what I look for in writing style. It's like a painting. I know I love it to look at it, but I couldn't tell you which individual brush stroke or color choice makes the difference. That's how it works with prose. I can't tell you which words exactly in which order or precisely how the dramatic tension should break or when the secrets should be revealed. I think it's different every time. However, if anyone ever wants an example of a book that I find beautiful, I can point to this one.

It has adventure, discovery, friendship, magic, fear, pain, love and many things in between. It has all the great elements of a wonderful fantasy. The tension is built beautifully. There is the perfect sprinkling of comic relief. The characters are three dimensional and unique. There are questions and secrets and they reveal themselves slowly and with extreme care.

The villains of our story are 15 years dead. What we're left with is pain and confusion and centuries of wrong that nothing can wipe clean. There's hurt and violence and atrocity but it has reason. You'll find no despicable irredeemable monsters here, except for those long buried. Instead you have people broken and scared and so painfully hopeful that it will break your heart. (Which only the very best of stories can do.)

I could gush forever. However, I will admit that no book is perfect. If I had to nitpick I would say the romance feels a bit rushed/forced. Also, To Be Continued are the cruelest words in literary history. I'm sure there are other things I could point out that weren't perfect, but I'll just share some of the beautiful prose instead. Because really, that's my favorite part.

She was young and lovely and surprised and dead.

“The library knows its own mind,” old Master Hyrrokkin told him, leading him back up the secret stairs. “When it steals a boy, we let it keep him.”

All those screams: subtracted one by one as though silence were the goal. And the goal was achieved.

But myth was the ordinary terrain of his mind, whereas it had never occurred to him that the Godslayer might have a mother. Because he was a hero. Because he seemed cast from bronze, not born like a mortal man. Because Lazlo, lacking one himself, tended to forget about mothers.

Suheyla was her name. Her hair was a cap of white, cropped short as a man’s, and her face was a perfect example of how someone can be beautiful without being beautiful.

Every color was deeper, richer than the real, and there were so many of them. If the weaver of the world itself had kept the snipped ends of every thread she’d ever used, her basket might look something like this.

A wave of emotion surged through her, and it wasn’t wrath, and it wasn’t hate. It was longing. To be someone’s child.

This is only a fraction of the passages I highlighted. I promise, I showed great restraint in not sharing so many more.

This book is for the dreamer, the adventurer, the lover, the person who wants to slay the dragons or save them depending on the dragon. Above all, it is for someone who loves words and the beautiful things they can create. And much like Lazlo, I love them so. (hide spoiler)]

So anyway, I really liked it and I can't wait to start Muse!

[Gabi]

Have to re-read the first chapter again. Somehow I couldn't concentrate on what I was reading. ^^'

[Lesley]

Just got my copy from the library so I’ll be putting my current read on hold to join in!

[Kaa]

I want to finish a couple of other books first, but I'd like to join for this read as well!

[Ariana]

I started a but earlier too, and it went quickly. I liked it a lot, with some quibbles.

(view spoiler)[I agree with Colleen, I thought the romantic relationship was the weak point. I liked watching the two main characters get to know each other, but I was NOT into pages-long descriptions of kissing, and the transition from exciting crush to eternal love felt forced.
(hide spoiler)]

[Ariana]

Meant to add: on the plus side, I found the world building vivid and engrossing, and I am looking forward to reading Muse. There's still a lot of questions I want answers to!

I thought the conflict of (view spoiler)[the oppressors who perpetrated atrocities, and then the oppressed people who had to commit atrocities to free themselves was well done, in that you can both identify with and condemn both sides (I'm thinking not of the gods, but of Minya). (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

I've read through Chapter 6 (about 10%). Interesting start with a lot of information given quickly but not too exposition-y I thought. I admit, (view spoiler)[ it makes me anxious on behalf of the character when someone naive and well-intentioned is taken advantage of, as Lazlo is by Nero. Nero needs a mustache to twirl, he's being so stereotypically villainous. (hide spoiler)]

My biologist heart was tickled by (view spoiler)[ the idea the people have two hearts and two distinct circulatory systems for the blood and the spirit. Fun that it then played a role in the alchemy. (hide spoiler)]

Gabi, I agree that first chapter/prologue was jarring and confusing. I'm waiting to see how it returns later in the story.

[Gabi]

Meredith wrote: "I've read through Chapter 6 (about 10%). Interesting start with a lot of information given quickly but not too exposition-y I thought. I admit, [spoilers removed]."

This made me so uncomfortable (view spoiler)[that Nero wanted Laszlo's book. I felt the loss like it was my own. But I yet have the hope that Nero doesn't turn out to be the token cause-he-can-do-it villain who annoys me in every Fantasy story.

Yes, the two circular body systems are quite interesting. Hope there comes more in terms of inventive worldbuilding. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Chapter 8: (view spoiler)[ Okay it seems that Nero IS an asshole. Pity (hide spoiler)]

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I finished this last night, and I'm ruminating on how I feel about it.

One thing I will say, though, is that the prologue (view spoiler)[should've been cut. (hide spoiler)] <- not really a spoiler, but just in case

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Huh! I loved the prologue! End of book spoiler (view spoiler)[ and how it tied into the end. I had thought initially that the dead goddess was a goddess from the day Erel-Fane (sp?) killed everyone, but to have it instead be Sarai was a nice twist, I thought. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

Just started this morning! I often like flowery language, but the descriptions in the first couple chapters are... a little over the top.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Allison wrote: "Huh! I loved the prologue! End of book spoiler [spoilers removed]"


It didn't seem like a twist to me, instead of just telegraphed what was coming, which deflated a lot of the (view spoiler)[emotional reaction I feel like I might've had otherwise. (hide spoiler)]

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Kaa wrote: "Just started this morning! I often like flowery language, but the descriptions in the first couple chapters are... a little over the top."

It doesn't stop.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Allison wrote: "Huh! I loved the prologue! End of book spoiler [spoilers removed]"


It didn't seem like a twist to me, [spo..."

You are a better guesser than I am! I'm sorry it was taken from you, it was quite devastating for me.

[Kristin B.]

I'm with Allison on that one. I think the author did a good job of building in a different kind of suspense and emotional investment, so that by the time you got to the point of the story where you know the resolution of that scene, it still had a hell of an impact.

[Pujashree]

Allison wrote: "Huh! I loved the prologue! End of book spoiler [spoilers removed]"

I thought the same thing as the novel went on with more and more exposition. I think the prologue was JUST vague enough and I was so distracted by the pretty and evocative writing that I didn't pay too much attention to the details. I did figure it out like moments before it actually happened, but that didn't ruin the book for me.

[Gabi]

I've encountered the second POV and am quite happy about it. (view spoiler)[ I was a bit disappointed so far since Laszlo's story starts just like every one of your typical apprentice fantasy plots. I was expecting something more innovative. But Sarai's plotline reads a lot more interesting and got me much more invested. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Kaa wrote: "Just started this morning! I often like flowery language, but the descriptions in the first couple chapters are... a little over the top."

There were some sentences that had me rolling my eyes, but the ones that bothered me are sparse, so all in all I'm okay with the prose.

[Kaa]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "It doesn't stop."

Wow, no, it really doesn't.

@Gabi: I think maybe I'm just in the wrong mood for this kind of writing, because I'm finding myself regularly annoyed by it. But not enough to put the book down, especially now (view spoiler)[that Sarai has showed up. (hide spoiler)] I completely agree with you that I got much more invested after that.

[Chris]

Finished.

(view spoiler)[I liked the beginning and middle parts, but the end was unsatisfying. I agree with Ariana that the descriptions of kissing and puppy love went on too long.

Then everything broke wide open because a very minor character had to blow stuff up. It was obvious that the orphan Lazlo was from the Citadel, but going from personal assistant to the most powerful blue god ever, in the space of a few pages, felt forced. And Sirai died. I don't see how these were good plot decisions. The conflict as it was set up was very compelling, and then 90% of it was scrapped.

I'm not sure what the author wanted to do with narration. POV seemed to break down at the end, with a lot of mind-jumping. The narrator felt mostly unobtrusive, but then the end brought a lot of heavy-handed drawing of conclusions. Maybe an avant-garde writer would play around with such changes, but I think that consistency would have been a better fit for the genre and the audience. (hide spoiler)]

[Dawn F]

Just finished chapter 39. Still love how little exposition there is.

I don't recall the prologue at all! Should I re-read it now, before I get to the end?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

No!

[Gabi]

Finished:

(view spoiler)[ It wasn't bad, not by far. As soon as Sarai's POV appeared I loved the narration.

But I had some problems with points already mentioned in the discussion:

- the kissing chapters were ... well ... not so cleverly done. I was like 'WTF! Two societies depend on your negotiation skills and all you can think of is kissing?' Threw me out of the flow.

- the sudden use of the explosionist indeed felt lame

- unfortunately the mentioning of the moths in the prologue gave away how Sarai would end.

- Lazlo's heritage wasn't a surprise after mentionings of orphan, obsession with Wheep and reaction to the metal

- probably a kindle version problem: breaks before POV change wouldn't have hurt

So the overall story felt a bit weak for me, but I loved the take on 'good' and 'bad' on the character level. Since the story isn't over I hope for more tension and character development in the second part. (hide spoiler)]

[Kristin B.]

Re: Prologue/Ending (view spoiler)[ I sort of felt the same way about us knowing it was Sarai, but right up until the moment we got Sarai's POV of her actual death I still thought it could have been one of the others. The moths were there, but I could see Sarai trying to use her moths to wake/lift one of the other girls. She would have been devastated to see them die and so her moths would have reacted. Which is why it still felt a bit like a surprise to me. Especially because I figured that she wouldn't kill Sarai off then! It seemed so cruel. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Kristin B. wrote: "Re: Prologue/Ending [spoilers removed]"

It was (view spoiler)[ cleverly done in so far that the fallen girl was given attributes that hinted at all of the girls. But the off-comment that only the one with the moths was true was just too big a giveaway. And emotionally only Sarai's demise would have made sense. If any of the other girls had died it would have been rather anti-climactic. Since the title of the second book hints at Sarai I'm sure she will be rather lively, despite being dead. (hide spoiler)]

Something completely different, regarding relationships. (view spoiler)[ In the beginning I could have sworn that a kind of love/hate romance between Lazlo and Thyon would be in store. Now at the end I marvel if this wouldn't have been the more interesting choice than the insta-love for Sarai. (hide spoiler)]

I've just seen the ratings and reviews on GR. I guess, I' m the wrong target audience. ^^'
Readers are raving about this book.

BUT I'm definitely in for the BR of the second part. I have the feeling this will become much better once I see the whole picture.

[Dawn F]

Lol, okay, Allison, I won’t then XD

[Dawn F]

Alright, finished it! About the prologue (view spoiler)[, yeah, good call not to go back to the start and read it again before finishing the book, that would definitely have spoiled the ending! (hide spoiler)].

I liked it very much, particularly the writing style/prose. I liked the characters well enough (view spoiler)[though they were a bit too one dimensional to really make me feel much for them. Sarai's death didn't move me at all, sadly, neither did her father's whole emotional dilemma. I liked the idea more than the execution perhaps (hide spoiler)]

@Gabi - Completely agree, I too (view spoiler)[ got a definite shipping vibe from Lazlo and Thyon and was surprised it didn't go that way. Oh well, every book can't be by K.J. Charles XD (hide spoiler)]

[Chris]

Re. target audience, (view spoiler)[Gabi wrote: "I guess, I' m the wrong target audience."

I know what you mean. I'm surprised that even Emily May was on the bandwagon. I think that if the positive reviews have animated GIFs, the book probably isn't for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Chris wrote: "Re. target audience, ..."

LOL! Fantastic! I must keep an eye out for this correlation.

ETA: Right! (view spoiler)[ I just checked the reviews on my latest 5 star read - not a single one with gif or images … (hide spoiler)].

[Kaa]

I just finished as well, and I agree with a lot of the other comments. I was never much of a fan of the writing style, although I got more used to it as the book went on (but I still skimmed a lot of the extended descriptions).

I was okay with the prologue - like Kristin, (view spoiler)[I remembered the moths but I was unsure until the reveal whether it would be Sarai trying to save one of the other girls (hide spoiler)].

Overall, I had pretty mixed feelings about the book. (view spoiler)[I thought the beginning chapters focusing on Lazlo were too long, and I didn't love the ending either - I agree with Chris that Lazlo's sudden powers (can we call it deus ex machina?) and Sarai's death both felt abrupt and out of step with the rest of the story. But I enjoyed the middle portion of the book - the questions about morality, justice, and vengeance were very compelling and the story really drew me in. (hide spoiler)]

@Gabi & Dawn: (view spoiler)[Ok, I wasn't picking that up while reading, but I'm sold on it now!(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

I'm about 65% in, finding the story so creative and vivid with its imagery, but mostly trying to finish so I can read all the spoilery comments above!!! :)

[Meredith]

Okay, I'll throw out some more specific comments,

chapters 36&37 (view spoiler)[ I really enjoyed this dream sequence, I thought it conveyed both typical dream logic and the perspectives and personalities of the two characters. Lazlo's portion, before Serai inserted herself, was sweet and funny. After Serai put herself into the dream, it was still clear which components came from the two characters. (hide spoiler)]

chapter 39 (view spoiler)[ fun, creative and also alarming fight sequence on the balcony and then on the silk sleigh. I have wished several times while reading this book that there were illustrations. I get the idea of the enormous angel and the godspawn living in it, but I have a tricky time visualizing them living in/on the statue. Like, is the balcony basically on top of the arm and hand, and where is the door to the interior...?? (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Re: 39

(view spoiler)[ I pictured the door kind of at the base of the thumb. So, like the room is essentially the meat of the hand, the arm is a hallway with the other rooms off of it. IDK if that's really how it's described, but that's what I pictured! (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Finished. I enjoy Taylor's world-building, I feel she has a lot of unique elements. I also like how she (view spoiler)[ builds her story carefully, laying out clues and hints along the way. I figured some things out, but not everything. I was thinking "no no no no no no no" while reading to the reveal about Sarai's death, even though it became more and more obvious it had to be her. (hide spoiler)]

I agree with comments about (view spoiler)[ the kissing scenes that went on way too long. I thought that could have been developed in more of a slow burn with a lot more romantic tension. I did start to feel like Fred Savage's character in the Princess Bride movie, though. "Are they kissing again?" (hide spoiler)]

Overall, though I found it very satisfying and I'm ready to jump into the sequel.

[Lesley]

I finished this a couple of days ago and like Kaa had mixed feelings about it. (view spoiler)[Mostly I was not a fan of the writing and I think that was the major issue for me. During the second half, I skimmed a lot of the overly descriptive passages and the kissing scenes. Getting to end, I found that I was not at all emotionally invested in these characters and the big climax moved me not one bit.

I did like the unique world building and some of the characters had compelling attributes, but those attributes never seemed fully fleshed out to me, with maybe the exception of Sarai. I thought there was a missed opportunity to dive more deeply into the others’ backstories to more fully realize the world.

There were some moving passages and I very much liked Taylor’s exploration of the dichotomous themes of self/other, responsibility to others/following your own dreams, generational loyalty and prejudice, and cruelty/justice. (hide spoiler)]

I’ve enjoyed other books that I think would fall into this genre, such as The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms and City of Brass (epic-not-quite-YA-fantasy), so I’m disappointed that this didn’t work for me and may still give the second book a chance.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Lesley - I agree with a lot of your comments, especially about the writing style. I grew weary of detailed descriptions of inconsequential things, to borrow from a review I read, taking 10 pages where it should've been a few paragraphs.

Overall, I just felt there was no need for the length of this book for the given content...


One review I read suggested it might've been better just to stick with Laszlo's PoV and have it be more about his adventures in Weep, learning more about the other people there, his exploration of Weep, his interactions with the other people... We could've seen more of Thyon and the other "farangi" (sp?) and about their preparations and things.

We still could've been introduced to Sarai and all of that through him, but that reviewer agreed with me that we liked the first part of the book much more than the rest of it...

[Lesley]

@Colleen That does seem like a good way to keep the story more cohesive. I’m also one of the people who liked the first part with Lazlo better than the rest. (view spoiler)[ In fact one of the story threads I liked that seemed like it was dropped and/or resolved too neatly was Lazlo and Thyon’s relationship. It was just getting good as they were leaving for Weep. (hide spoiler)]

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Lesley wrote: "@Colleen That does seem like a good way to keep the story more cohesive. I’m also one of the people who liked the first part with Lazlo better than the rest. [spoilers removed]"


I agree. While I in no way (view spoiler)[shipped them (hide spoiler)], like some other people, mostly because I saw Thyon more as an (view spoiler)[unbelievable prick and less as a potential love interest (hide spoiler)], I would've definitely liked to see more of their development and watched as, maybe, Thyon realized he was (view spoiler)[actually a monumental asshole... (hide spoiler)]

[Kristin B.]

re: Colleen's last spoiler note. (Tiny spoiler for second book). (view spoiler)[you see this more in the second book. (hide spoiler)]