Vegan Book Club discussion
August 2019: Dawn
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1) I think all first-person narratives are biased in some way, and Lilith certainly has a bias against the Oankali/ooloi, which shapes how we view them. It's not first-person, but it's still exclusively through her eyes. We don't see the aliens on their own
2) The comparison is definitely accurate, in my opinion. It's unfortunate: I know we all view our treatment of animals (especially pets) to be good, but the truth is, our pets are at our whims.
3) Lilith's identity gives her an interesting perspective on things. She has already gone through quite a few hardships and has likely seen her fair share of oppression. So of course when she's held captive and controlled by the Oankali, she wants out. I think that's part of why Butler wrote her like this.
4) This contradiction was striking. At times, I wanted to be on the Oankali's side because of their views on using animals, but then they would turn around and use human beings. I found this to be incredibly repulsive and hypocritical.
5) I gave Dawn 4 stars. It's not something I would normally read, but I found it very interesting and engaging. I got frustrated often with what was happening, but it kept me curious.
6) Probably. I don't like leaving a book series unfinished, especially one that ends the way Dawn did. There's still so much I want to know: how does Lilith fair as a new mom, what will her child look like, will she ever return to Earth? These questions will lead me to read the next book at some point, for sure.
2) The comparison is definitely accurate, in my opinion. It's unfortunate: I know we all view our treatment of animals (especially pets) to be good, but the truth is, our pets are at our whims.
3) Lilith's identity gives her an interesting perspective on things. She has already gone through quite a few hardships and has likely seen her fair share of oppression. So of course when she's held captive and controlled by the Oankali, she wants out. I think that's part of why Butler wrote her like this.
4) This contradiction was striking. At times, I wanted to be on the Oankali's side because of their views on using animals, but then they would turn around and use human beings. I found this to be incredibly repulsive and hypocritical.
5) I gave Dawn 4 stars. It's not something I would normally read, but I found it very interesting and engaging. I got frustrated often with what was happening, but it kept me curious.
6) Probably. I don't like leaving a book series unfinished, especially one that ends the way Dawn did. There's still so much I want to know: how does Lilith fair as a new mom, what will her child look like, will she ever return to Earth? These questions will lead me to read the next book at some point, for sure.
I just read that, as of a couple years ago, the book is possibly being adapted for television. Ava DuVernay is apparently a part of this project, so I think it definitely has potential.
All I can think about though is how uncomfortable I would be seeing the Oankali depicted, which is great in a way because viewers would have to get used to them, the same way Lilith and the other humans do in Dawn.
Having read the book and assuming the show comes to fruition, would you watch?
All I can think about though is how uncomfortable I would be seeing the Oankali depicted, which is great in a way because viewers would have to get used to them, the same way Lilith and the other humans do in Dawn.
Having read the book and assuming the show comes to fruition, would you watch?
Ayoola wrote: "4) With regard to consent, something that I have wondered about the Oankali is how they would view homosexuality/trans identity/anything other than being cishet. Is this something they would "fix" ..."
Ooh, these are all important questions! I can easily see them "fixing" them before they are Awakened, but that does make me wonder if the humans would recognize what was done to them. Would the Oankali tell them? Lilith knows that cancer runs in her family and knows that they remove the cancer gene. If they "fix" anyone who isn't cishet to suit their purposes, would those people remember who they used to be? Or can those memories also just be entirely removed?
Ooh, these are all important questions! I can easily see them "fixing" them before they are Awakened, but that does make me wonder if the humans would recognize what was done to them. Would the Oankali tell them? Lilith knows that cancer runs in her family and knows that they remove the cancer gene. If they "fix" anyone who isn't cishet to suit their purposes, would those people remember who they used to be? Or can those memories also just be entirely removed?
1) We only get Lilith's POV in the novel and our knowledge of the Oankali only comes through her. Is this too limiting? Do you think we miss anything important about the Oankali?
2) In this new world, the humans' lives are largely dictated by the whims of the Oankali who saved them. As a result, Lilith regularly compares herself to an animal or pet. Do you find this comparison accurate?
3) Lilith is many things: an African-American woman, a widow, a mother, an anthropologist, a survivor. How do you think these identities influence her decisions? Why do you think Butler wrote Lilith this way?
4) The novel deals largely with consent, and we regularly see the Oankali/ooloi ignore the humans’ expressed consent, all while claiming they know what’s best for them. This shows a lack of respect for humans. As much as they take from the humans, however, they will not take from animals, refusing to kill them for food. In this way, the novel’s alien race have seemingly contradictory views. What do you make of this?
5) How would you rate Dawn and why?
6) Will you read the rest of the Xenogenesis series? What do you think will happen next?