Outlander Series discussion
Archive - Outlander on Starz S1
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Episode 8 - Both Sides Now - Spoilers up thru E8.
Brizo wrote: "Ellen wrote: "I love that "side character" snuck in under our very noses. But to me it was evident that having ridden for wet days and nights coddled in the saddle and his lap, that Claire was mean..."I was referring to the media blitz that 50 shades will be receiving, undoubtedly, once the movie is out. Not that the market is the same, but Press sharks always seem to target one major at a time. I"m awfully fond of Outlander at this point and want it to get all of the spotlight, centerstage, hype, and written about by everyone, everywhere, all the time. so my conclusion was that quite possibly, in a room somewhere, someone said at a meeting "Let's wait until the heat dies down for.....". Just a supposition on my part.
Paul wrote: "It's also common in lots of cable series to split the season in two - Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Walking Dead, The Closer, even The Sopranos did it."We watch most of the AMC shows and they drive me crazy with this. I'd rather have a longer break between seasons than have to deal with a mid-season finale.
Is it just me or is Tobias kinda hot?
I love his acting and have grown to really admire what he can do but I do not think he is hot.
Lisa wrote: "Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "Does anyone think that Jamie is being portrayed as being a little to refined? When I read this section in the book, Jamie seemed stronger, more in control when he talk..."
IMHO:
They have not really done much harm in the retelling of the story except the "no lies vow" but Jamie in the books was much farther along in maturity and wisdom for the day. He taught Clair about clan politics and told her why he wanted to stay away from the gathering and why they married her off to him. MacKenzie manipulation saved her and made it so that Jamie, popular with the people, could not make a run at becoming laird when it should pass to Dougal. Thus they would not have to kill Jamie either. The people would not support his becoming laird, being married to an English. He was able to characterize each clan with a sharp shrewd eye and mind. These too, kept him alive. I really think they will flesh him out more as the series continues. We still have 8 more episodes to season 1 and a second season to go. When translating from book to screen they have to allow for scenes not in the book to accommodate Frank's story a bit. But mostly it is the director that needs to bring out the maturity in the character. The director tells the story and shapes the actor's portrayal to fit his story telling. (Take DiCaprio in Titanic...James Cameron failed him in that here was a guy getting around the world on street smarts and by the seat of his pants. Next thing you know he is uncharacteristically whining like a child. Sorry that made his performance unbelievable for me)
Vanessa Eden wrote: "Is it just me or is Tobias kinda hot?"Not its not just you :)
@Vanessa and @Zooey reference: @tribetobias on Twitter, and Tobias' Tribe on FB. He has a huge following. if it weren't for the BJR side of his character, I'd think he was hot, but his dastardly ways have put me off Frank. But he wears a suit so beautifully!
I agree with your thoughts on Jamie. He does seem more timid in the show, or maybe not timid, but definitely younger.Even in the episode when Angus came at Claire with the knife. That scene wasn't in the books, obviously, but I imagine that Jamie in the book would have very clearly have stopped Angus. That would never have happened around him, especially after telling Claire that she had nothing to fear as long as he was there. Which maybe was why the screenwriters were going to keep that line out of the show. It didn't seem to fit, especially when they knew that the knife scene was going to happen. All Jamie did was gently try to talk Angus out of it, after a pretty long delay. That reaction bothered me immediately.
They even omitted Jamie showing Claire how experienced he was with his sword, and the fight in the tavern. From what I remember, and I've only watched once so far (my husband hates rewatching anything and we only have cable in one room, blah) the only scene that hinted at Jamie's natural chemistry and power was the scene when he takes the spanking for Loaghaire and the speech at the gathering.
So yeah, I can definitely see that Jamie is being played down, especially in the start.
gertt wrote: "Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "I agree about Frank, MrsBooks. And, I think you're right, if they are going to add scenes, such as Frank searching for Claire, then they should have more episodes...it'..."What? of course new stuff changes the story.. the story is as written all new stuff changes that which is one reason DG does not encourage fan writers who build on her works. All this new stuff is taking the viewers in a direction never put into the story.
If they can do that for Frank they can do that for Jamie and Claire too. They have lives when they are apart and not in Claire's head.. How about a new seen of him and the books going to see Horrocks. Or Jamie thinking about his upcoming wedding with a flash back to his mother.. that would of been new as well.
But honestly, DG books are the story and they are rich enough for adaptation to the screen without the producers thinking they need to change them. They don't write lines as good as she does.
Zoey wrote: "Vanessa Eden wrote: "Is it just me or is Tobias kinda hot?"Not its not just you :)"
If you like dull and not so manily, he's your man! Vive la différance!
Mia wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "Does anyone think that Jamie is being portrayed as being a little to refined? When I read this section in the book, Jamie seemed stronger, more in control..."
I understand where you are coming from, Jamie in the book not only was a stronger character he was also had a good sense of humor. Their cutting of his lines in half has the effect of not really seeing that side of Jamie.
That is completely uncalled for, and won't be tolerated. I attempted to send you a message, but you have them turned off. Unfortunately that means that I have to post this in the group rather than in private.
This is your first and only warning, if you continue to make disparaging comments and remarks toward other members you will be removed from the group.
gertt wrote: "I feel the same about Jamie's character...it's not Sam's portrayal but the script. I noticed this the most when Jamie left Claire in the glen. In the book he didn't ask her to promise to stay w..."
I agree that and even the scene they did on the mountain, leaving out the whole fishing scene was really a humorous side to Jamie and Claire where is that teasing she does with him. Some of those lines really made him cute and endearing. I miss that stuff.
gertt wrote: "Brizo wrote: "No, they were together long before the he took her back to the stones..."Of course Jamie and Claire were together before [spoilers removed]
Claire didn't fall in love with Jamie ..."
If your just going by what the show is showing you, but there were chapters in the book between the time Claire falls in love with Jamie and when he left her in the glen that covered 3 months of their relationship after the marriage, where was all that. Those months are when their relationship grew into love, it wasn't a one night stand and bang love. They cut that out to put all that Frank crap in.
Brizo wrote: "Ellen wrote: "I love that "side character" snuck in under our very noses. But to me it was evident that having ridden for wet days and nights coddled in the saddle and his lap, that Claire was mean..."According to Starz, "Black Sails" returns in January of 2015.
I do agree, with all, that they should have taken a shorter break between showings. I'm afraid that many of the non readers, but viewers none the less, will fall to the wayside.
Brizo darlin, you do realize the character Tobias is playing is fictional? I was speaking about his looks not the morality and the alpha maleness of both of his characters.
I think some of the things they added to the show (especially the scenes with Frank) helped explain things. I was able to see the love between Claire and Frank more in the series because of added scenes. That's just me though.
Vanessa Eden wrote: "I think some of the things they added to the show (especially the scenes with Frank) helped explain things. I was able to see the love between Claire and Frank more in the series because of added s..."That is how I also feel Vanessa. I was not a Frank fan so I like how they allowed me to see a bit of his perspective.
Yea, it made me understand why Claire fought so hard for her marriage with frank. It also adds depth to what she felt for Jamie because it must have been hard on her to leave a man she loved for a man she loved more.
I agree Gertt, Jamie was more of an alpha male in the book. I miss that in the series.
Vanessa Eden wrote: "Brizo darlin, you do realize the character Tobias is playing is fictional? I was speaking about his looks not the morality and the alpha maleness of both of his characters."I don't think Tobias is very good looking compared to Sam Heughan. He is a good actor, and he can play certain roles very well. I like him in his role of Black Jack Randall. He can do evil well. As for Frank, he is playing the role of a duller character and because he does it well he comes across as that to me as well.
Wendy F wrote: "That is completely uncalled for, and won't be tolerated. I attempted to send you a message, but you have them turned off. Unfortunately that means that I have to post this in the group rather than in private.
This is your first and only warning, if you continue to make disparaging comments and remarks toward other members you will be removed from the group. "
Brizo, due to the fact that we were posting at the same time, I am repeating this message which is the result of your comment back to Vanessa about 'dull and not so manly'.
@ Mary , Sam is certainly the hotter male of the series there is no denying that. His body... I could lick cream cheese off of. But I think there is definitely something sexy about Tobias . Kinda like the hot professor kinda thing. I think at one time or another we all had that one college professor we kinda had a crush on. Lol.
A lot of people think Graham McTavish as Dougal is sexy also. I just don't. I have seen him with no shirt on and yes he does have a hot body. I think for me his face reminds me of somebody that I once knew that I didn't find sexy so it doesn't work for me.
I don't think he's sexy in the show, but I thought he was sexy in the book.Then again, while everyone in the world saw Gerard Butler as Jamie, I always so him and thought 'dougal', so that could be why.
Gertt I think your right about Jamie and Lallybrock.
gertt wrote: "Mia wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "Does anyone think that Jamie is being portrayed as being a little to refined? When I read this section in the book, Jamie seemed stronger, mor..."
Didn't he also (view spoiler)
@VanessaEden I'll never again eat cream cheese without that image in my mind. It'll be "Harry and Sally" all over again, wherev er I may be!!!!!
Brizo wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Vanessa Eden wrote: "Is it just me or is Tobias kinda hot?"Not its not just you :)"
If you like dull and not so manily, he's your man! Vive la différance!"
Thanks Brizo, but we are talking about Tobias NOT the character/s he is playing. There IS a difference.
That statement is no different than the people who insist Sam must be gay because he has played a gay character. Going by that logic Graham McTavish is really a Dwarf from Middle Earth
Vanessa Eden wrote: "@ Mary , Sam is certainly the hotter male of the series there is no denying that. His body... I could lick cream cheese off of. But I think there is definitely something sexy about Tobias . Kinda l..."Mmmmm Sam & cream cheese.............. not a vision I should be having while at work, I'll never get anything done :)
Diana Gabaldon just posted this a little humor for tonight to lighten things up.http://atom1cflea.tumblr.com/post/991...
Diane wrote: "A lot of people think Graham McTavish as Dougal is sexy also. I just don't. I have seen him with no shirt on and yes he does have a hot body. I think for me his face reminds me of somebody that I o..."I didn't think Dougal was sexy in the book but Graham is very sexy to me. I think it's his confidence.
I think Graham McTavish takes over the screen when he's on camera. That power is another kind of sexy. And Tobias is that sleek kind of good-looker that works in this role perfectly. Understated. Sam, well, we all know about Sam.
A group message was sent out regarding new rules to this group. This was not in regards to one person (my inbox is filling up...) this was sent to all members to let you know of the new rule change. If you had done something wrong we would have personally started a conversation with you.
Keep in mind this is just a precaution, we hope this group continues to be positive, engaging and of course sharing the Outlander Love!
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I don't quite understand the hostility about Frank in the show. People who haven't read the book need to understand why Claire was so torn about going back to Frank. If they don't show it, how will they know? And then the added scenes with him that we didn't see in the book, it seems like a normal thing they would add in the show. ?I never hated Frank. I thought he was kinda boring and didn't seem to have a connection with Claire like Jamie but she did love him at one time.
The only part that I didn't think was necessary for the story was Frank beating the snot out of the guy in the alley and then choking the woman. The fact that he used a blackjack to beat him with was kind of overkill to me. I liked seeing Franks side especially the part at the stones with Claire almost getting back to him. That was so well done and heartbreaking.
Right, it was to show a bit of a correlation between Frank and BJR. That's why they had the reverand talking about how everyone has blackness in their soul in the voice over.
I also thought like Gertt. Them knowing that the majority of readers don't look at Frank with the same view the writer has, I thought they were throwing things in that could have happenend to give us a broader sense of all that is Frank.
But how does that add to the story? They said all of the changes they put in would add to the overall story. I loved most of the added parts for Frank, I just don't know where they could be going with that added part about Frank being more like BJR than we thought. I get that their looks were very similar but why do they have to share anything else? Claire doesn't know and I don't think she ever will. I actually fast forward through that part in the show. Having said all this, I still think having Frank's side in the show was a great touch.
Vanessa Eden wrote: "Is it just me or is Tobias kinda hot?"It's not just you Vanessa Eden. I thought that from the very first episode...which I actually saw at a special screening before the series started here in Oz. Reading the books it was always Jamie who was the "hottie" but in the series I seem to have developed a thing for Frank. Lol!! I am warming to Sam as Jamie but I'm not quite there yet. I noticed that Zoey agrees with us too. It's hard to really dislike BJR in the series as much as I did in the books because of the attraction to Tobias/Frank. :)
Diane wrote: "Vanessa Eden wrote: "I think some of the things they added to the show (especially the scenes with Frank) helped explain things. I was able to see the love between Claire and Frank more in the ser..."I have to agree with you both Vanessa and Diane. I actually really liked the scenes with Frank..after Claire's disappearance. My memory of the first book in detail is a bit sketchy but I remember wanting to know more about Frank and his reaction to Claire's disappearance. I didn't think we got that as much in the book.That's if I'm remembering it right? Those scenes in the last episode gave us a bit more clarity about Frank.
I actually think that most of Frank's characterization comes from both DIA and Voyager. We see more of Claire and Frank's relationship in those books as well as what Frank went through after Claire disappeared. But is important to remember that, for the most part, these stories are being told from Claire's point of view, so even what we do know of Frank is Claire's understanding of him.
I guess I just have to agree to disagree. Again, I liked that the show added Frank's side but I really don't think we needed all of it. Frank doesn't have too much left to do with the series except flashbacks in DIA. It will be interesting to see how much more they add as the show goes on.
Cheryl wrote: "I guess I just have to agree to disagree. Again, I liked that the show added Frank's side but I really don't think we needed all of it. Frank doesn't have too much left to do with the series except..."I'm guessing quite a bit, to keep the audience they've attracted. I've read too that there will be Jamie voiceovers (!) in the second half of season one, which should be interesting (source: http://www.outlandertvnews.com/2014/09/second-half-voiceovers-to-be-mostly-jamies/). Hopefully they will be done better than some of the voiceovers in the early episodes.
I don't have anything against Frank. I just wonder the fascination with Frank in the series when he really didn't play an ACTIVE role in the series. I like Tobias Menzies as an actor and he is doing a great job with his two roles. I just wanted to voice my opinion on the subject.
@Cheryl Frank is sometimes just the elephant in the room, and I'm feeling his presence through the first half of DIA as I did through the second half of Outlander. His actual presence isnt't needed even as Claire dreams or slips into a memory of him and her time before the stones. ( Is there an acronym for thet BTS???). In my humble opinion, his presence is so very important, as I have noted before, that ir drives the storyline. The series introduces his physical character back to the audience when they need to be reminded of him, as they are not all readers of the Word. So, for me, Frank is tantamount. And I wholeheartedly agree with you: Tobias is excellent!
I'm just adding a comment now because I live in France, so I just got to see 1-8 downloaded from iTunes. I had read the books 3 times and then re-read the corresponding scenes in the book after seeing the episodes.
I'm not bothered by the director needing to flesh out the relationship with Frank. I doubt that he will play a major role throughout the series, but I think they need to show that she did have a husband she loved. We need to see just how hard her situation is for her.
(view spoiler)
The previous comment was my first time using the spoiler tag, but nothing happens if I click on the spoiler. How does one open it? Maybe it doesn't work on the iPad?
It seems like they will have lots of scene to do showing the snow tho so wouldn`t it be comparitivly warmer to do it in Dec. instead of late winter?Yes I think Scoland is quite cold in the winter