"Way of Kings" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

All right! Let's talk about this book!

A few discussion topics in case you need a starting point:

1. Who is your favorite character and why?
2. What did you think of the interludes and the transcriptions at the beginning of each chapter?
3. What surprised you?
4. What worked or didn't work well for you?
5. Will you be continuing the series?

And additional information:

here's a link to the artwork in the book, in case you missed it!
And if you'd like to continue the series, here's a link to the buddy read!

[Emma]

Everything from the moment Bridge 4 went back to save there stranded men was INCREDIBLE!!! I wasn't wholly convinced about the series until that point. The action there followed by Kaladin finally finding a light eyes leader he can trust and believe in... so damn good.

[Gabi]

:D ... Against my usual short comment way I would love to freak out here and write in length about what I so dearly love about this my most favourite fantasy novel of all time. Yet I'm not at home for several days and have only app access (and hate typing on the smartphone)

- so short form for now: Sanderson managed to use a lot of Fantasy tropes I usually don't like and turned them into something I couldn't get enough of (fighting scenes, magic enhancement, brothers-in-arms, lone hero ...)

The geology and ecology was just awesome! Everything down to the grass was so well thought through and shaped by the unique climate factors of this world.

Also a rare for me was the fact, that I deeply cared for a great number of characters (Shallan, Jesnah, Dalinar, Kalladin, Rock, Adolin, Hoid, Navani especially) usually I'm glad if I find one or two that I like. Out of all the fantasy novels I've read so far (which aren't that many as others have read, I admit) the Stormlight cast is by far my favourite cast.

Also down my alley is the grey shading of the antagonists. I can't stand the usual conquer-the-world-cause-bad character. Here Sadeas is bordering the line, but he is still portrayed with enough reasoning and believable care for his people and the kingdom. Yet Taravangian was simply genius! (he certainly was my biggest surprise)

The complexity of the story stood out for me, the Interludes (which in part only make sense after having read more on the books, admittedly) Everything is intricately woven together with so much thought and love for detail. Just wow!

And then the spren ... how genius is this idea? He took the usual cartoon gimmicks and turned them into beings. So delightful!

and the fabrials ... (and this was supposed to be the short version ... ^^')

[Gabi]

can a mod please delete one of my double comments? app was acting up and I can't delete it myself.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Gabi wrote: "can a mod please delete one of my double comments? app was acting up and I can't delete it myself."

I hate when it does that! You're all set!

And agreed a thousand percent with everything in your "short" response xD

[Gabi]

Thank you, Allison! When I'm back home next week and not everything already has been said by other readers, I will get to the long response ;)

[Andres]

Alright its open. Here is something I didn't understand and hopefully someone could better explain this to me.

In my understanding the shard plates are rare, they may possibly be an epic boss loot drop from a chasm fiend and the Raid Leader has to make sure no one auto-loots and hearthstones out.

The shard plate is amazing. Dolinar is fighting off the parchendy (again sorry for misspelling, heard the audible version) stormlight is leaking, he's being poked and stabbed. A shard barer parchendy tosses him around. In another scene Thaddius is on the ground covering his head, parchendy are spearing the crap out of him. Obviously, these things take a lot of damage.

or so I thought.

Dalinar walked up to his nephew and tosses him around the room, roughs him up a bit and his shard plate is ready to fail and kill the king? Is the shard plate this weak or was it that strong?

[Paul]

Andres wrote: "Dalinar walked up to his nephew and tosses him around the room, roughs him up a bit and his shard plate is ready to fail and kill the king? Is the shard plate this weak or was it that strong?..."

Dalinar strikes Elhokar many times in a single spot and Elhokar is not properly defending himself. He's using his knowledge of the shardplate's weakness here. You should see other examples of this weakness being exploited as you go along, especially in later books.

Brandon Sanderson does a good job of creating abilities and/or objects of incredible power but giving them a consistent weakness that makes them feel more real and less of a win button.

[CBRetriever]

Andres wrote: "Alright its open. Here is something I didn't understand and hopefully someone could better explain this to me.

In my understanding the shard plates are rare, they may possibly be an epic boss loo..."

in the second scene in the book where the king is being killed, there's mention of striking multiple times in the same place creates a weakness

[Jemppu]

Yup, what Gabi said ☝️ :D

I was genuinely surprised the first time around - and still intrigued by - how Sanderson has managed to conjure such typical fantasy motifs to appear so appealing. Like indeed the Spren: 'seeing' them float about and spring to life like some game health sprites you keep thinking "man, isn't this quite trite... yet no, it's delightful!". Same for all the stuff with the stones, and the armour and the battle maneuvering... they all fit the context of the realm so well. Commendable use of common tropes in a fascinating fashion 👏

The world too which Sanderson has build around these tropes, appears not only complementary to them, but feels like the genuine, natural environment for these things to occur and get vowen into cultural heritage - both in daily life, and in the more obscure history/legends. And spiced too with some wholly unique touches (my favorites being the 'safehand', and the whole concept of academia/arts being the sole domain of one group while military/warfare belongs to another, and how these manifest in the every day functions and cultural attitudes).

And yes, the characters too, the true fascination of this series: Sanderson has managed to bring such humanity to the usually quite distant and stoic 'legendary hero' types, as well as to the 'villain'. You get to witness their struggle, the drive and reason behind their heroism/villainy.

Great as it was to follow these individuals interact with one and other, and see them deal with their personal 'issues' the first time around, I'm enjoying this aspect even more now on the second listen. It's a compelling play.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yes!

I wanted to touch on the safehand bit. (Impolite, I know, ha!)

One of the things I thought was really interesting is that this book seems to evolve as Brandon himself is. He's said that he's been trying to learn and to reconcile the world he sees and loves with the teachings of his faith. Modesty is a core tenant of godly conduct among LDS women, and it feels a bit to me like Brandon was exploring that. What is it that makes a certain sort of skin different from other skin? Why must women be modest but men can be bold? What does that look like?

So, the safehand to me is a reflection on modesty brought all the way to the most invasive taboo--that women must essentially do all that they do with one hand. Maybe a bit "on the nose" but I thought it was a great way to nod to the double standard, and to challenge our preconceived notions of what "ladies" must be like. If covering a hand is ridiculous, what else might be? And even if it is ridiculous, if the women are comfortable and feel a connection to their culture or god this way, who should tell them what they can and cannot do?

[CBRetriever]

they do somewhat use the safehand. When Shallan is drawing, it is noted that she uses her safehand to support her pad/easel. I think what doesn't get used are the individual fingers.

It's also the hand with the ring figer

[Megan (The Gemini)]

I loved Mistborn and am excited to read this series! I have been dragging my feet on another Brandon Sanderson book because I needed time to come to terms with the end of A Hero of Ages! I haven't read Warbreaker, yet, but do plan to. Should I read it first? It doesn't seem to correlate to this series, but I want to be sure.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

CBRetriever wrote: "they do somewhat use the safehand. When Shallan is drawing, it is noted that she uses her safehand to support her pad/easel. I think what doesn't get used are the individual fingers.

It's also the..."

Yes, true, CBR. I did say "essentially" because they aren't supposed to get it dirty, they can't use their fingers, etc.

Cutter wrote: "I loved Mistborn and am excited to read this series! I have been dragging my feet on another Brandon Sanderson book because I needed time to come to terms with the end of A Hero of Ages! I haven't ..."

No need to read Warbreaker first, although some suggest reading it before Oathbringer!

[[deleted user]]

Emma wrote: "Everything from the moment Bridge 4 went back to save there stranded men was INCREDIBLE!!! I wasn't wholly convinced about the series until that point. The action there followed by Kaladin finally ..."

I couldn't stop reading after that part! It was such a satisfying ending to Kaladin's arc. Very excited to see what happens in the next book with several of the POV characters in the Shattered Plains.

[Jeffrey Lazaro]

Allison wrote: "Yes!

I wanted to touch on the safehand bit. (Impolite, I know, ha!)

One of the things I thought was really interesting is that this book seems to evolve as Brandon himself is. He's said that he's..."

**I havent finished the book, but dont worry, spoilers dont phase me, also my input may already be answered by the end of the book so bear with me**

I too would like to touch on the "safehand" and "modesty" of the women of WOK, well possibly the role of gender in WoK all together. It may simply be that the three main women of this book, Shallan, Jasnah and Navani are just particularly strong willed people, but the women of WOK seem less interested in gender roles than the men do. The women seem to all know what they can and cannot do, but it seems like women view their gender roles as simply a sociatal convention rather than concrete rules. The men on the otherhand are far more strict on staying within their gender boundries, to the point of disgust actually.

i.e. The topic of men reading and/or writing (a woman's role) is brought up multiple times, each time with a male character not just regarding it as "not allowed" but essentially dispicable (hard gender line) . On the other hand, When Jasnah killed the 4 theives, Shallan was torn on whether the killing was justified, not at all touching upon the fact that physical action, be it justified or not, is reserved for men. (hazy gender line) Honestly, her philisophical arguement should have just been, "it is not a 'womans' place to be a vigilante", as its not a 'mans' place to read or write. We can tweeze out the excuse of self-protection, because Jasnah admitted that she went there on purpose with intent to kill. (assuming self protection would be anyones right). Altogether i find the gender dynamic fascinating and would love to shine a light on it.

On that note, I feel like we have two distinct characters whom seem to trancend this boundry, Kabsul and Wit. Kabsul seems to be a character containing the extremes of both sides. He is a high intellectual character (female) but is also filled with the intent to kill (male). Unable to find a reasonable balance, he eventually reaches his demise. Wit, on the otherhand seems to have a fascinating balance of both. Wit stands outside the bounds of sociatal norms, and is, for the most part, not allowed to be within the ranks of normal society. He is a character whose biggest strength is understanding the true nature of people. in fact, the fable of the island was my favorite part, it really digs deep into the facets of human nature. Wit plays the flute, music being the art of women. He also is a teller of stories, stories which leave it to the listener to understand. Story telling is an art of oral tradition, pre dating writing, and using a flute to tell a story is a practice so listeners remember the tale better by hearing it with a cadance, pre dating traditonal song and music. This leaves Wit in this interesting limbo of filling both gender roles, without going to extremes of either side. I feel most intesrested in Wit as a character, he holds so much philisophical 'wit' and i love when he talks.

As for the "safe hand" I honestly dont know what to interpret from that. I find it interesting that the 'left hand' is kept hidden by women. That is because we generally consider left-handed people to be more creative, left-brain right-brain theory. The right hand being more cold and calculated. As such, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have the left hand more in the open to inspire more creativity?

Anyway, that was pretty long-winded and possibly pointless, but thoughts?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Very interesting interpretation, Jeffrey! I like where your head is.

[Gabi]

@Jeffrey, I like your distinction between the hard line for men and the hazy line for women. I, too, had the feeling that the men are much more restricted in their minds in the Alethi society than the women.
Infact I was rather happy with the female roles in this book. They felt much stronger and more self-assured than I often see in medieval type of fantasy societies.
I think it was Dalinar (?) who observed that man and woman only function together as a unit

[Andres]

Paul wrote: "Andres wrote: "Dalinar walked up to his nephew and tosses him around the room, roughs him up a bit and his shard plate is ready to fail and kill the king? Is the shard plate this weak or was it tha..."

So its probably, highly unlikely that while Thaddius was lying on his stomach, helmet knocked off, parchendi repeatedly striking him, they were extremely lucky or skilled to not hit his weak point?

[Bruce]

If you read history, it's usually written by the elites of a society. Historians are always craving something written by the common people, the women, or better yet, something from those considered in the lowest sectors.

I found it fantastic that in WOK we have stories from different components of that society weaved together. There is Dalinar who I think would be an elite, but there is also Kalladin from those considered the lowest, and then Shallan from yet another component. It's a nice spectrum of story and gives the world such a tantalizing depth.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Gabi, I agree, I really thought the women were overall very well done. I liked all the nuance we saw, the agency and the way everyone used the different social power they had.

Andres, I think Sadeas was lucky, but also it takes really strong hits, like from shardblades or chasmfiends ramming into you to do much to the armor, so Parshendi with just regular weapons wouldn't be able to do enough damage to the armor.

Bruce, that is SUCH a great observation! I hadn't even thought of that, but you're so right, we see people from every walk of life in their own spheres and with their own eyes.

[Shane]

I don’t know that I had a favorite character out of this book, all their developments were so well handled that you kind of had each of them grow on you in their own way. I’d even go as far as to say I’m as equally invested in all the names members of bridge 4 as I was in Kaladin.
The thing I found the most intriguing about this book was how I could draw relations to my faith. I saw where Allison touched on this a small bit when talking about the safe hand but to me there were so many other correlations that I ate the book up even more. I know with most fantasy series there is the dark vs the light and that can be related to religion but there was so much more. In ways Kaladin is a Christ like character. He gathers a group of “broken” men and leads them to great achievements and he in a sense dies and comes back in the high storm. His inability to leave wounded behind and his struggle to kill or not shows great character in him.
I even found it interesting how Kaladin saw some visions and Dalinar had dreams, there’s a scripture that states young men will see visions and old men will dream dreams. Dalinar himself was such a great character such a strong man of integrity reminded me a little of David from the Bible just his quest for knowledge and his immovable integrity. Even the Way of Kings he was reading or having read to him reminded me of biblical things especially the man walking from one end of the world to the other to experience what it was like for his subjects because it’s important to be a servant before you can be a leader.
I could go on and on the last I will say is about the shard plate and the shard blade themselves. To me they were like the armor of God that we each have access to but here they were physically manifested. Especially the shard blade like the sword of the spirit how it just like materialized when they thought about it.
Some of these may be reaching but as I read it it’s what stood out and drew me in even more I absolutely loved how it was speaking to me.

[Gabi]

Great observations, Shane. I wouldn't say that you are reaching far there. Given that Sanderson is very religious this could've very well been intentional. I never thought of this resurrection in the high storm scene, but now that you mentioned it, it fits so well. That was such an intense scene about the power of faith.

[CBRetriever]

ok, the Parshendi do seem more like the other creatures of this planet

(view spoiler)[ It is looking like they grow their own armor (hide spoiler)]
and
(view spoiler)[ The Parshendi grow carapases (hide spoiler)]

pages 440-441 on the Kindle version

[Gabi]

CBRetriever wrote: "ok, the Parshendi do seem more like the other creatures of this planet

[spoilers removed]
and
[spoilers removed]

pages 440-441 on the Kindle version"

They do indeed!

[Emma]

CBRetriever wrote: "ok, the Parshendi do seem more like the other creatures of this planet

[spoilers removed]
and
[spoilers removed]

pages 440-441 on the Kindle version"

This creeped me out to the max for some reason. Especially when Kaladin does his inventive thing....🤢

[Emma]

Shane wrote: "I don’t know that I had a favorite character out of this book, all their developments were so well handled that you kind of had each of them grow on you in their own way. I’d even go as far as to s..."

Really interesting reading, Shane. I’m not religious at all, so didn’t pick up on any of this.

This is precisely why I love to talk about books with other people. There’s always more ways to see.

[Shane]

Gabi wrote: "Great observations, Shane. I wouldn't say that you are reaching far there. Given that Sanderson is very religious this could've very well been intentional. I never thought of this resurrection in t..."

Thanks Gabi, I didn't know that he was a religious guy but the more I read the more I assumed so because to me all that stuff stood out. It made me love the book even more. Now that I think about it also in Dalinar's dreams especially the one where he was fighting the creatures when the Armored people showed up it was almost like Archangels, just another little thing I'm reminded of.

[Shane]

Emma wrote: "Shane wrote: "I don’t know that I had a favorite character out of this book, all their developments were so well handled that you kind of had each of them grow on you in their own way. I’d even go ..."

I too love this discussion so far, it's really cool to get insights that other people got from the same book that you completely missed or just never thought about.

[Øystein]

I've never thought about the religious aspect of these books. I real A LOT (read: almost exclusively) of fantasy (and sci-fi), and gods, spirits and magic are a pretty common component of fantasy stories. I'm also not religious whatsoever, so I don't normally think about the relation to real-world religion, unless it's very obvious. I also tend not to read about authors, because it will almost inevitably colour my view of a book I'm reading. So I had no idea Sanderson is LDS. Reading this thread has given me a bunch of new thoughts. I'll probably do a re-re-read some time next month and see what these new thoughts bring to the table.

[Kel-C]

I really enjoyed the book. It has been awhile since I've read something like this with a creation of a whole new world. I find the world and the storms very interesting. The characters are well thought out and everything flows smoothly. I did have to read some articles explaining parts of it, like about the stormlight because I'm impatient and didn't feel like reading it over again. I tend to find the gender stuff a bit blah, but it fits well in this story. I don't like how women have the whole hidden hand thing and men prefer not to learn to read. Especially with the worry of spies! But in all reality, this is how humanity works in real life...just displayed differently. I bought the other two to complete the series.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

No need to do spoiler tags here! Be loud and proud!

Shane, I do think that Sanderson plays with a lot of religious themes, though I hesitate to say it's an allegory like CS Lewis' works. Especially later in the series there are things I'd be curious to get your take on.

But no doubt there is a lot of the symbolism and meaning there that we see in our religions, too!

Kelsey, so glad you enjoyed it! I've been amazed at the depth of the analysis out there. And so glad people did more concise explanations, ha!

Can everyone picture how the magic works? What do you think of this "hard" fantasy trend that attempts to have concrete rules for how it works and why? And would you like a spren?

[Shane]

Allison, it’s definitely not as noticeable as what C.S. Lewis did. It could be because I was looking for it. I’ve been doing a lot of personal seeking where my faith is involved so I was more open to it and drew my own interpretations from the text. And to me that’s what made it a more enjoyable read.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Absolutely! And I'm so glad you're sharing some of your findings with us :)

[CBRetriever]

as someone who's not that religious, I find it a bit (at 52% read) critical of religion. More questioning it than embracing it. I'm drawn to Jasnah because of her non-beliefs and find Shallan rather puritanical. Kaladan seems to be bucking religion too in that he's fighting against the "way things have always been done" supported by religion.

[Gabi]

@Allison: I love the explanation of magic approach. I'm no great fan of waving your wand magic, so whenever I encounter an author who actually thinks about how their magic could work I am delighted! The highstorm energy with gemstones as a kind of batteries for the magic and the fabrials is a nice way of bringing in pieces from our modern world into a more medieval kind of fantasy setting (i.e. the 'fax machines'). This reminds me of Pratchett's approach to explain everything in his Discworld.

And I Just have to throw in how much I love the character of Shallan! That she is an visual artist and that her art is used as an essential plot device was so satisfying to witness. Aside from the fact that I would love to have her ability for eidetic memory she also is a rare female character in a Fantasy novel. She makes her own way without male dependence without standing out as badass or genius (her above mentioned ability aside), she is flawed, shy, but doesn't give up. I instantly felt drawn to her. Seeing her and Jasnah work and talk together was wonderful.

And may I just add that I'm also delighted at how many readers did pick up this tome and seem to enjoy it? Makes me happy to see.

[Øystein]

@Allison: I'm a fan of hard magic systems. Especially when the magic is central to the story and can make the characters very powerful. It needs rules and limits in those cases. I've read a few books with MC's that has powerful magic with no system, and it has always been at the moments they use their magic I've felt most disconnected from the stories.

Sanderson is really good with hard systems (and has gotten better). I particularly like that he has a clear energy source, like Gabi said, for his magic. Stormlight in this series, metals in Mistborn. I had some issues with the magic in Mistborn in that it is extremely exploitable (They could create some insanely powerful machines with their gravity-defying powers, for one thing). Then I learned about the plans to take that magic into a modern setting, and later a sci-fi setting, and it made more sense (And I'm super excited to see where that will go). But I would have liked some kind of explanation as to why none of the more obvious exploits were being used in the original trilogy.
Rosharans seem to be better at understanding what their magic can be used for in this regard, with some pretty cool devices we get to see in the books. Their magic is a lot less exploitable as well, from what I've seen so far in the series, so it's not as problematic to me.

That being said, soft (?), magic can work as well. The best example I can think of off the top of my head is LOTR. The magical characters there are powerful, but not obviously so. The magic and its users are mysterious and strange. This is actually one of the things I like the most about LOTR (which I don't like a lot overall).

[Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥]

Emma wrote: "Everything from the moment Bridge 4 went back to save there stranded men was INCREDIBLE!!! I wasn't wholly convinced about the series until that point. The action there followed by Kaladin finally ..."

Bloody yes!! Bridge 4. I even bought a Bridge 4 shirt off Amazon!!

[Andres]

Does the parchendi shard barer grow epic carapace? or does he get a shard plate on top of his carapace?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

If I were to get a tattoo(s), I would absolutely use a glyph in it. Probably Bridge 4! They're so great.

And I really, really want a spren. I love things like spren and daemons from His Dark Materials...a sort of second self that's a combination familiar and reflection of self. So much fun.

[Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥]

Yes!! I want a Spren too!! I wasn’t even thinking. I rarely do though 🙄

[Øystein]

Ohh, yes please. Don't mind if I steal that tattoo idea, if I ever get one.

[Øystein]

Andres wrote: "Does the parchendi shard barer grow epic carapace? or does he get a shard plate on top of his carapace?"

Shard bearers are people in possession of a sword, shard plate or both. The shard plates are not connected to the blades. The sword won't give the bearer the plates, and vice versa.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

If they can withstand the shardblade, they have to be wearing shardplate. Shardblades slice through life forms, not through flesh, so while there are some interesting properties of the Parshendi carapaces, stopping shardblades isn't one of them in their average soldiers.

[Øystein]

I think maybe I misunderstood your question Andres. I thought you were asking if possessing a shardblade automatically gave you shardplate, or epic carapace in the case of the Parshendi. But yes, the Parshendi shardbearer has the plate on top of her carapace.

[Bruce]

Øystein wrote: "@Allison: I'm a fan of hard magic systems. Especially when the magic is central to the story and can make the characters very powerful. It needs rules and limits in those cases. I've read a few boo..."

I like it that the magic system isn't just laid out like an info dump, but we have to discover it and figure it out along with the characters.

[Don]

My first impression of the book wasn’t the assassination of King Gavilar; it was the map of Roshar—specifically, the continent’s spiral shape, which reminded me of our galaxy and of other natural shapes (weather patterns, seashells, sunflowers) and, more abstractly, of natural cycles (monthly, yearly, seasonally), and of creation.

[Øystein]

Bruce wrote: "I like it that the magic system isn't just laid out like an info dump, but we have to discover it and figure it out along with the characters"

That's definitely fun. But I'd still say there should be a system in place (at least from the author's side) to help keep it believable and to avoid deus ex machina scenes.

[Emma]

Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ wrote: "Emma wrote: "Everything from the moment Bridge 4 went back to save there stranded men was INCREDIBLE!!! I wasn't wholly convinced about the series until that point. The action there followed by Kal..."

WHAT???? I did not know there was such a thing. Aaahhhh.

[Andres]

Øystein wrote: "I think maybe I misunderstood your question Andres. I thought you were asking if possessing a shardblade automatically gave you shardplate, or epic carapace in the case of the Parshendi. But yes, t..."

Oh man. That's like having a knight inside of a robot. I really need about 6 more hours a day to start book 2.