OK, fine. No sword and sorcery!

[Tipper]

Old-school sword and sorcery! Swords never get old!!!
(Oops it's already been picked. Didn't see that)

[Lindsay]

Olivia wrote: "I've had "Child of a Hidden Sea" on my radar and keep meaning to pick it up. Portal to another world and it sounds like it's fantasy with a pi..."

A.M. Dellamonica's Indigo Springs and its sequel were brilliant so this one is on my to-read list as well.

Her novella The Cage was recently narrated for the tor.com podcast and can be read online here.

[Alexander]

I don't know if they are any good but some alternate swords picks off my to read list are:

Bitter Seeds
Dreams Underfoot
The Dervish House
Faust
The Divine Comedy

[Lindsay]

Alexander wrote: "I don't know if they are any good but some alternate swords picks off my to read list are:

Bitter Seeds"

This one got read back in 2010, discussion is here.

[terpkristin]

Tassie Dave wrote: "BTW, we haven't read any China Miéville for S&L."

Ah, my bad.
I knew it was a book I'd skipped, it was a The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi, another hard to pronounce/oft-mispronounced name!

[Sean]

terpkristin wrote: "I knew it was a book I'd skipped, it was a The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi, another hard to pronounce/oft-mispronounced name! "

You would've hated it. The science is imbecilic in the extreme.

[Kevin]

Michele wrote: "Crap, I didn't get a chance to recommend The Golem and the Jinni by Helene Wecker. Oh well, Alif gets a second chance from me I guess. (I started it once and put it..."
This a great suggestion in case we need another non-"swords and castles and shit" book for next time.

For superheroes type stuff I'd suggest Vicious. Though "heroes" is used quite loosely here. It uses a lot of the tropes (origin stories! Mad science! Close friends turned bitter rivals! Good and evil! ) but loses all the stereotypical moral simplicity and turns the whole thing several degrees off kilter.

[Lindsay]

I just read Vicious last month and I agree with you. Hands down the best superhero novel I've read.

Better than Seven Wonders. Better than Soon I Will Be Invincible. Even better than Velveteen vs. The Junior Super Patriots (and that one's painful to admit).

[library_jim]

So happy Alif is the pick. I've been swamped with other things so haven't been keeping up here. But I picked up Alif on a Kindle Daily Deal recently so I have no excuse not to read along with the group for this one. Well, if my two other book clubs don't count as an excuse...

[Ken]

Sean wrote: "terpkristin wrote: "I knew it was a book I'd skipped, it was a The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi, another hard to pronounce/oft-mispronounced name! "

You would've hated it. The science is imbeci..."

I disagree. What makes you come to that conclusion?

[Sean]

Kenneth wrote: "I disagree. What makes you come to that conclusion?"

A) The springs have a level of efficiency that is physically impossible.

B) Think about how much energy they waste transporting those heavy springs all over the city. Energy that they could've kept by harnessing animals directly to the turbines.

C) But why use animals at all? Just because the world runs out of fossil fuels doesn't mean we're out of fissionable material. Or wind. Or sun. Or water.

D) Not to mention, the level of genetic engineering in that world should be sufficient to create bacteria that excrete fuel.

[Kevin]

Sean wrote: "Kenneth wrote: "I disagree. What makes you come to that conclusion?"

A) The springs have a level of efficiency that is physically impossible.

B) Think about how much energy they waste transportin..."

So nothing worse than in your average science-fiction space travel story then. Huh, I always assumed those "the science is awful!" comments for that book were related to the bio-engineering parts of the story, since that is the part that actually matters to the plot. That'd explain that why despite my background in science (biochem/tech) none of it ever bothered me.

[Tamahome]

Did he get the bio wrong?

[Joanna Chaplin]

The parts about bio-engineered people are certainly far beyond our current capacity, but nothing struck me as out-and-out wrong. He even addressed (view spoiler)[heat generation and energy use for superhuman movement, (hide spoiler)] which is an aspect that normally gets glossed over.

[Ken]

Sean,

Good points. I wasn't calling you out, it was a genuine question.

A. Yes, you are right there for sure.
B. Also true.
C. Just cause the tech exists doesn't mean it's used, for political or monetary reasons. They have sailing ships, but probably a lot of other stuff doesn't get used for political/financial reasons. Lobbyists for the spring faction, etc.
D. Also a good point. Maybe they just don't want to pursue that, ala point C.

[Kevin]

Tamahome wrote: "Did he get the bio wrong?"

It's a bit out there, extrapolated and taken to the extreme. Basically what every sci-fi book does with other types of science. The book is really about the social aspects of the effects of the science rather than the actual science anyway. And it has fantasy/religious elements which are much more out-there than the science anyway. So: "meh".

[AndrewP]

After being disappointed with Throne of the Crescent Moon I'm going to skip this one.

[Lindsay]

I've read both Alif and Throne and I can assure you that they are nothing alike. No point of comparison at all really.

Throne is set in an Arabian Nights-like secondary fantasy world. Alif is set in a modern day unnamed middle eastern country.

[terpkristin]

AndrewP wrote: "After being disappointed with Throne of the Crescent Moon I'm going to skip this one."

Throne wasn't my favorite book. I wanted to like it more than I did. I loved Alif. I recommend you give it a second consideration. :)

[Sean Lookielook]

Michele wrote: "Crap, I didn't get a chance to recommend The Golem and the Jinni by Helene Wecker. Oh well, Alif gets a second chance from me I guess. (I started it once and put it..."
Leesa wrote: "I just finished The Golem and the Jinni. I thought it was fantastic."


If we're doing jinn, Golem & Jinni would be a good alt pick.

[Thane]

Swords rule. I prefer swords with a wee bit of magic.

That said, and I know it's already been picked this month, but has the group ever read an Andre Norton book? The Queen of Scifi and fantasy?

[Sean]

AndrewP wrote: "After being disappointed with Throne of the Crescent Moon I'm going to skip this one."

That's like saying, "I didn't like A Game of Thrones, therefore I'm not going to read American Gods."

[terpkristin]

Thane wrote: "Swords rule. I prefer swords with a wee bit of magic.

That said, and I know it's already been picked this month, but has the group ever read an Andre Norton book? The Queen of Scifi and fantasy?"

Not yet. I hope we rectify that. I read some of her stuff when I was in middle school and would love to read it now as a "better" reader.

[Lindsay]

I haven't read anything of her for years but as I recall her books were very YA then and probably considered middle grade now. Does she have anything for an adult audience?

[Thane]

Lindsay wrote: "I haven't read anything of her for years but as I recall her books were very YA then and probably considered middle grade now. Does she have anything for an adult audience?"

I don't know. Her bibliography is immense, hard to know where to start, though I've always meant to read Beast Master. Maybe someone else has a suggestion.

This one looks like what several people are asking for as a read, but I don't know anything about it. Imperial Lady

Of course, there's the issue of older books and accessibility. I do know Baen does reprints from some of her work.

I just think she's someone to keep in mind!

[Derek]

Sean wrote: "Clive Barker's novels (Imajica, The Great and Secret Show) are great examples of fantasy that doesn't rely upon recycled tropes. "

I love this idea. Barker is definitely not the tropey fantasy that comes to mind when you think 'Sword' of Sword and Laser. There are castles, magic and shit in Imajica, but so much more. Or at least a castle, if memory serves. Definitely magic. It would be a years-later re-read for me, but I wholeheartedly endorse this idea.

Reading the thread, I've realized just how late I am to this particular party, but maybe consider this for a future Sword pick. I've found the Sword picks lately hit or miss (Rothfuss yay!, Dalglish awful!), but none have swung too far away from the typical fare in my opinion, and there are lots of great books out there that I think would fall under Sword.

[Phil On The Hill]

Perhaps we could go back a little and pick some much older piece of Fantasy.
Swords and Deviltry or Death Angel's Shadow orGloriana

[David]

I was going to recommend The Golem and the Jinni also.

[Dharmakirti]

Derek wrote: "I love this idea. Barker is definitely not the tropey fantasy that comes to mind when you think 'Sword' of Sword and Laser. There are castles, magic and shit in Imajica, but so much more. Or at least a castle, if memory serves. Definitely magic. It would be a years-later re-read for me, but I wholeheartedly endorse this idea."

I would LOVE for the group to read some Clive Barker. Imajica, Weaveworld, The Thief of Always, Abarat or The Great and Secret Show would all be great picks.

[Craig]

I'm really happy that Alif the Unseen is the pick. I've been looking forward to reading that book. That said, I like castles and magic and shit.