SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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I need help from an Australian
Kim wrote: ""Islanders" refers to Torres Strait Islanders who are a separate people to Aboriginal Australians."Ah, that makes sense, thanks. I heard it while we were in Cairns and boating out to the Great Barrier Reef.
I did have a nice conversation with a family from Melbourne (“Mellbin”) on the trip back from the reef and I found it interesting that both husband and wife had different accents although both were native to the city. I assume it’s like Boston, Houston and NYC, where each neighborhood has a distinct accent.
Lately I find myself watching YouTube videos made by people who have sold up and bought boats to live on and sail around the world. One young Aussie couple the guy is named Riley but because of her accent for the first 6-7 videos I thought she was saying “Rally”. (https://youtu.be/_iavA6jjvjg) I think she’s from Perth, but I might be confusing her with the wife of another couple, who is from Adelaide. (https://youtu.be/_1wknfXR1WE) Another couple, the guy is from Canada but I can’t place his fiancés accent. (https://youtu.be/bBPfCoPAFtY)
Some people say there's different accents based on region, I've never been able to hear a difference. I've lived in Sydney, Adelaide, and Perth, as well as different parts of QLD. The bigger differences are between poor and rich. Most Australians speak General Australian, the stereotypical is Broad, and the "posh" is Cultivated, similar to British RP. The woman in the last video is not speaking with an Australian accent.
Kim wrote: "The woman in the last video is not speaking with an Australian accent."I didn’t mean to imply she was. I just can’t figure it out. She only has a trace of her original accent, whatever it is.
Phillip wrote: "Kim wrote: "Phil why don't you post some of the slang and locations rather than trying to get people to read the whole book? I'm from NQ so I know the area very well. The last thing Cairns needs is..."This is a great idea, even if the context is lost--and easier to get results.
Mod
Just a thought. Cadence. For example cutting off words here and there, conjunctions, etc., to chop it up. Mark shrugged. "Who cares? It keeps Zombie Walkabout up and running, which keeps piss in my stubbie holder."
Mark shrugged. "Who cares? Keeps Walkabout running, piss in the stubbie. Good enough."
Actually in context the mish mash of slang might be appropriate. What did you say? 10 years after and Cairns is pretty much Aussies from all over. You haven’t given them a real background so they could be from anywhere. And it’s a tourist thing. They’d spread it on thick anyway. And in that time a newer form of the language would evolve probably. And knowing how much the Yanks (Sherman Tanks in rhyming slang by the way) loved Steve Irwin and all his use of “crikey” then it’s probable that older sayings could be used again. And yeah “Australian Aborigines” isn’t used so much anymore. It’s mostly Indigenous Australians now.
Jacqueline wrote: "Actually in context the mish mash of slang might be appropriate. What did you say? 10 years after and Cairns is pretty much Aussies from all over. You haven’t given them a real background so they c..."I agree. Also, since it is in the future, there could be a few new slang terms that could be believable as well.
Trike wrote: "Phillip wrote: "zombies and Aborigines"Pretty sure “aborigine” is considered slightly offensive, particularly in NSW. Everything I saw and heard while visiting was “Aboriginal” and/or “Islander”,..."
Thanks. I have aboriginal used in manuscript, too. I thought abo was the offensive term. My limited internet search didn't point to an issue (beyond abo). I double check.
Karin wrote: "I agree. Also, since it is in the future, there could be a few new slang terms that could be believable as well."I did have fun inventing new slang terms (including one for zombie).
Jacqueline wrote: "And yeah “Australian Aborigines” isn’t used so much anymore. It’s mostly Indigenous Australians now."Good to know. I have some characters who are meant to be offensive, and others who aren't, but I want to make sure I'm using the right terms for the proper characters. That chapter was one of my favorites.
Jacqueline wrote: "And it’s a tourist thing. They’d spread it on thick anyway."Chloe literally tells Mark to do this when the American tourist group shows up.
They also like to be known as First Australians. Yeah abo is just like using the N word in America. Basically thems fightn words. And like with the African Americans that word is ok if they use it. Just like Trike said with “blackfella” and then calling us “white fellas”. They can do it. We can’t.
Phillip, I don’t know if this is in your book but one of the most spectacular things about Cairns is the fruit bats. I’m not sure how to properly convey how amazing it is to see tens of thousands of bats swarming through the sky. Every evening just at sunset they would arise like a cloud from the island across the bay and fly into downtown Cairns. It’s positively primordial.Each bat is huge, too. One hanging off our hotel balcony had a wingspan that was easily 4 feet across, and its body was maybe half the size of a cat. Sometimes they looked cute and sometimes they gave me the shivery creeps.
They are also super loud, something I wasn’t expecting, since the tiny American bats I’m used to are mostly silent. Zombies attacking during a fruit bat swarm would be impossible to hear.
https://youtu.be/YWX3utjsavQ
https://youtu.be/cKbV8wQueTQ
Few more than 10s of thousands. Try 100s of thousands. Where we used to live they used to live on a local island in the middle of the river that ran through the town. The sky was black in every direction every night. Got to be careful around them. They carry nasty viruses like the Hendra Virus.
Trike wrote: "Phillip, I don’t know if this is in your book but one of the most spectacular things about Cairns is the fruit bats. I’m not sure how to properly convey how amazing it is to see tens of thousands o..."Great idea! I know exactly where they can be used. I'm already adding drop bears, what's one more animal?
I realized from some of this help that it may be better to ask for common Aussie slang used today versus showing what I randomly selected to say the same thing. What are the most common phrases I could expect to hear on a typical day? Remember, they can come from any part of Australia.
I'm sorry I haven't responded in a few days. I went to visit one of my wounded soldiers at Walter Reed. This weekend, I plan to get after a lot of the re-writes I imagine from our previous discussion. A few other terms I used (at least once) are:fair suck of the sav
ace
too right
no worries
norks
good onya
mate
love
tomato sauce
bloke
Sheila (capitalized or not?)
I'll go through to see if there's anything else that I'm likely using incorrectly. Again, I appreciate all the help. This community has been great.
Jacqueline wrote: "Also it’s more Straya now."I keep forgetting to ask, would a local refer to it as "Straya" or "Oz" or both?
I never heard anyone say Oz in our 3.5 weeks there. Except for us.We were in Brisbane, Sydney, Darwin, Hervey Bay, Fraser Island, the Blue Mountains and Cairns.
Here's one that is widely used down under. Op shop. I have seen it written by both Aussie and Kiwi GR people, and it means thrift or charity store.
Jacqueline wrote: "Fair dinkum Trike? Also it’s more Straya now. We’ve dropped the “l” altogether. And the “aust” for that matter. "Trike wrote: Pretty soon it’ll just be “Stra.”..."
Nah Trike. Stra is too much effort. It'll be just Ya.
At least in Queensland where I come from. . . . (smiles)
Hey Phillip, a few comments. I'm from Brisbane and in my 40s. I've been liberal with the common slang from my area in my response, to give you an idea. The below slang would be recognisable to all ages, but as with everywhere, the kids use their own slang. My comments below should also be taken with a grain of salt - this is my interpretation of how people around me react. It's not necessarily what all people from Brissie would think.Ozzie is very common these days, especially since the "Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Oy Oy Oy" chant started in the footy (that would be Rugby to non-Aussies).
There would be footy. Even in a Zombie Apocalypse. It might be Rugby (Qld, NSW) or AFL (Victoria) or more probably, with Aussies from all over the country, a new mixture of the two.
Queensland, especially FNQ, use stubbie coolers, because it's bloody hot, and who wants hot bloody beer? Ya gotta keep the beer cold mate! It aint civilised otherwise.
Chicks (NOT sheilas, that term is not used with any age group in the Brisbane area any more) more commonly drink wine or the modern pre mixed drinks in public. The tough ones still drink beer. A lot of chicks love the champers (bubbling wine like champagne).
Guys (for the younger generations) and blokes (for the older generations) are also just as likely to get into the Scotch (Whiskey - we don't care where it comes from, it's scotch to us) OR bourbon (we believe the Americans don't make whiskey. Only the scots and the irish do that. Americans make bourbon.)
No matter the gender, in a zombie apocalypse, they probably drink anything they can get their hands on. When they are intending to get really drunk, they are "getting on the turps" - a reference to people who would drink anything, even turpentine.
You mention drop bears. They are cool. In a zombie apocalypse, the meaning would be different. It wouldn't be feral koalas deliberately falling on tourists any more. It would be zombies falling on tourists - for example, a story sitting around a campfire "Yah, he was got by them drop bears! Stupid bugger. Told him not to hang out under the awning."
I suggest avoiding all current slang regarding the Indigenous Australians. In a zombie apocalypse, the divide between "white" and "black" Australia would vanish. The indigenous peoples would probably be referred to based on the First Peoples that existed in the Cairns area. This website - https://www.cairns.qld.gov.au/communi... - is a Cairns tourist information about the First Peoples of the Cairns area. They may even be referred to as First Peoples, or because we can't help ourselves in shortening long words and lengthening short words - "Firsties" or "Firstohs".
Suggested slang for zombies. They would have heaps of slang words to describe them. And probably no aussie would call them zombies.
Meathead - a slang term meaning dumb person - zombies are dumb so this would be repurposed.
Porker - because we used to hunt the wild pigs, but now we hunt the zombies, so the zombies are "porkers"
Rotters - because sometimes our slang is obvious
Deaders or deadies - because sometimes our slang is just stupid
Roos or Bunnies - because they're bloody everywhere, just like the bloody roos and rabbits used to be
Hope this is useful to you. It's important to note that the slang is dfferent around the country. I know from when I was a kid talking to a cousin from Victoria. She kept telling me things were "grouse". I could not understand why everything was being compared to a small bird. Turns out back then in Melbourne "grouse" meant really good. In Brisbane we said "cool",
SO it would be reasonable for some of the Aussies to have no idea what other Aussies are saying. BUT they will all pretend they understand each other because ya can't let the bloody tourists know we don't!
As a side note - why Cairns? The area there is very flat, not a lot of natural protection from zombie herds. Consider Kuranda (on the tablelands just above Cairns) or Cape Tribulation (a town in the Daintree north of Cairns) or Fitzroy Island in the reef just off Cairns. If it is Cairns, they would all be along the water's edge so they can escape if the zombies get too close.
I have some comments on the slang you have used so far:fair suck of the sav - yep, still used, means a damn good try
ace - not commonly used in Brisbane, but still reasonable. Means
really good, like "cool" "grouse" "sick"
too right - yep. We totally agree here. Too right.
no worries - god I use this one all the time! Means I can do the job.
norks - never heard this term, so don't know what it means. Are you sure you don't mean dorks which is the Aussie term for nerds?
good onya - yep, used a number of ways. Sarcastically to mean you are a dickhead who just ruined everything, or genuinely to mean hey, good job, or with a laugh to say what you just said or did was really funny
mate - yep. Only men are mates. Women are not.
love - luv not love - used mostly by the older generation (50+) and only used to refer to women. The younger generation consider this to be insulting and many will get angry when they are called luv.
tomato sauce - is this slang? To me, tomato sauce is just that. Tomato sauce. I've always considered ketchup to be slang.
bloke - yep, and the younger generation use guy. Generally used when talking about someone you don't know well, but you consider to be a decent sort of person. You don't hear "evil bloke" - that would be an "evil bastard"
Sheila (capitalized or not?) Nah - don't hear this anymore unless you are in a tourist trap. Chicks is more likely.
Norks are breasts aren’t they? If you want to lay it on thick for the tourists then sheila would be ok. I’m in my 50s and I still use it. Bird is also acceptable. I use bird all the time. Chick....if you must.
Bundy and Coke (Bundaberg rum and Coke/cola) would be one of the drinks of choice. Since whisky is Scottish/Irish and Bourbon is American using the Australian icon would be better.
Jacqueline wrote: "Bundy and Coke (Bundaberg rum and Coke/cola) would be one of the drinks of choice. Since whisky is Scottish/Irish and Bourbon is American using the Australian icon would be better. ....."Oh yeah! Very much agree. Amazed I didn't think of that one before. Horrors! How un-Aussie of me! My husband is ashamed of me right now, Bundy and Coke is his favourite drink, as are the "dark'n''stormies" which is Bundy and Ginger Beer.
I love a good Dark and Stormy. Especially if you use Bundaberg ginger beer.
Helena wrote: "As a side note - why Cairns? The area there is very flat, not a lot of natural protection from zombie herds. Consider Kuranda (on the tablelands just above Cairns) or Cape Tribulation (a town in the Daintree north of Cairns) or Fitzroy Island in the reef just off Cairns. If it is Cairns, they would all be along the water's edge so they can escape if the zombies get too close."Why not? Remember, the zombie apocalypse is over. The Australian Defence Force took care of locking the zombies out of civilization. Cairns is just as good as any place to be a staging area for the international hunters.
Just a thought. If you ask a bunch of writers a question, well, you know what happens . . ..The first thing I thought of when I heard Cairn was: Zombies on one side, Something on the other side (as in coming out of the water. There's been one apocalypse, easy to think of another). It's still good, but that would be in the back of my mind.
Kuranda - this is a lot narrower. If anyone has a big dog they may have a Kuranda dog bed. Very sturdy, especially with aluminum frame; withstand large dogs leaping on them. (That's a bit outside, maybe way outside.)
Cape Tribulation! What a perfect name. It has rivers, rainforest, near the water, everything.
All that said, it is a rom com so really anything goes.
Phillip wrote: "Why not? Remember, the zombie apocalypse is over. The Australian Defence Force took care of locking the zombies out of civilization. Cairns is just as good as any place to be a staging area for the international hunters. ..."Good point Phillip. Sorry, when I got around to commenting after reading everyone else's comments, I'd forgotten that the actual apocalypse was over! In that case, I would say Cairns is a good spot. It is, after all, already well set up for tourists!
I hope all is going well with your quest for Beta Readers. I am intrigued by the story idea, and wish I could promise a turn around by September. Sadly, I have been reading the same book for months now, so I'm not reliable . . .
No worries. I appreciate the constant help from people in this thread. In fact, I just received comments from an authentic (bloodwork pending) Australian beta reader.
I want to thank everyone again for their help. I'm now in final editing and cover design for my novel (the lineart is looking awesome!). I know I have a better product thanks to your kindness.
One final question: Can anyone weigh in on whether soccer or football is more widely used?
Soccer. Football is what we call sports with an oval ball like Rugby league, rugby union and Aussie rules depending on the state you live in.
In the eastern states (Queensland, NSW, Victoria) footy is the overall sport, soccer very much secondary. Footy refers to rugby league in Queensland and NSW. The State of Origin is one of our biggest sporting events, where players are put in teams of the state from which they originally came. The State of Origin is played between Queensland and NSW. There are three games, each played 2 weeks apart. The winner is the best of three.
In Cairns, the State of Origin is not as all consuming as it is in Brisbane. However, when the North Queensland Cowboys play the Brisbane Broncos, that is a big deal.
Hope this helps.
But in Victoria footy is what they call Aussie Rules football or as my dear old dad used to call it...aerial ping pong. The southern bit of NSW is also into AFL (Aussie Rules).
Soccer is very popular with kids. The popularity of actually playing the game decreases as the kids get older. The A League (the Top level games) is very popular amongst some sections of the community.
Jacqueline wrote: "Soccer is very popular with kids. The popularity of actually playing the game decreases as the kids get older. The A League (the Top level games) is very popular amongst some sections of the community..."Good point. Futsal (indoor soccer) is VERY popular in Brisbane with the kids these days. The primary schools are all doing teams as well,
Yeah all three of my kids played soccer from when they were 5 or 6. Both the boys played both indoor and outdoor soccer until they were 17. The eldest stopped playing at 18 actually after he did his ankle one too many times and couldn’t play anymore. He’d played rep soccer for a few years before that. He was devastated when he couldn’t play anymore. Our daughter changed to Netball when she was 7 but still played soccer for a year or two in the afternoon after her netball game in the morning. The kids competition in all the towns we’ve lived in was always chocka with kids but then they were lucky to get a team together for a senior men’s team.
You can probably tell that it depends on who you talk to! I'm from WA, so footy always referred to AFL. We called soccer soccer.
Now we live in NSW, and footy usually refers to Rugby League, and (depending on who you're talking to), occasionally Rugby Union. Soccer is mostly soccer, and rarely football.
I'm a physio, so I get to ask 'So, what do you mean by 'footy' when you said you hurt yourself at footy on the weekend?"
Yeah but pretty universally across the country soccer is soccer. We just vary on which of the oval ball games we call football.
I finally feel comfortable with all my research to publish. I want to thank everyone in this forum for your assistance. I truly appreciate all the feedback and feel my story is the best it can be. It occurred to me that I never shared my cover as I was pandering for information. I hope you enjoy it:
That's really nice! And glossy, I bet it looks great. That yellow sign, Zombie crossing, so funny! Nice job. :)
Trike wrote: "Oi, good on ya, mate!"Thanks.
M.L. wrote: "That's really nice! And glossy, I bet it looks great. That yellow sign, Zombie crossing, so funny! Nice job. :)"Thank you. The sign was an addition my family suggested.
Considering the current news from Australia, maybe put this one on hold for a bit.
Maybe...maybe not. Some people might get upset but the majority would be good. Maybe. Speaking as one who has had a brush with the fires (it was literally all around my Mountains house and I lost most of the garden but the neighbours somehow saved my house and garage which is so lucky because we weren’t there since I was at the Beach looking after my FIL and Hubby was at work in the Outback and we couldn’t get there anyway because the roads were closed and we’ve lived with them around us here at the beach since the beginning of September and most of the time I can’t breathe) I say do whatever floats your boat. Don’t delay releasing a zombie apocalypse book set in Australia just because the real apocalypse has come.
They’re so ferocious they’ll only stop burning when there is nothing left to burn. There’s a line it won’t get past. There’s nothing out west to burn. Everything is already dead. They can’t be controlled. The best we can do is get out of their way and hope nobody else gets killed. It’s running straight over the top of small towns. And not giving a damn about big ones either. And they leave hot spots and a week or two later they can flare up again. Know that? Two days ago a hot spot that went unnoticed around the corner from my mountains house, in town, flared again nearly 2 weeks after the fire itself was put out. And they create their own weather. Yes the apocalypse has come but surprisingly not the zombies.
Pretty sure “aborigine” is considered slightly offensive, particularly in NSW. Everything I saw and heard while visiting was “Aboriginal” and/or “Islander”, although I never asked what the latter referred to.
At the Aboriginal museum center near Brisbane where we attended a performance by Aboriginal guys, they did a bit on history and language. The one thing that really stuck out to me was that they called each other “blackfellas”, which I found amusing and bemusing and a little confusing since I was darker than most of them, and they called us “whitefellas” even though there was a family of African Americans in our group.
Although the funniest thing to me while we were there was the uproar in Sydney about how the pubs were closing “bloody early” because they were trying to cut down on street brawls. The new government-enforced closing time? 3 am. 😂 And Aussies wonder why they have a global reputation as hard drinkers. They must feel lost visiting America where bars close at 1.