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This book seems whimsical rather than reality based like my favorite De Lint books. So I found myself thinking about this book from a more reality based perspective. Why did De Lint decide to create an opposition between the spirits of a flowering plant (ginseng) and the spirits of bees who need flowering plants to make honey? There is an interdependence between bees and flowering plants. We don't tend to think of ginseng as a flowering plant because it's the root that is gathered for herbal medicine, but there are ginseng flowers.
With the collapse of so many bee colonies, it was hard for me to think of them as enemies, in a realistic sense.
Shomeret wrote: "This book seems whimsical rather than reality based like my favorite De Lint books. So I found myself thinking about this book from a more reality based perspective. Why did De Lint decide to cr..."
I was tempted to say something when this book was nominated. I agree 100%with you Shomeret. When I read it a few years ago I had the same thought. I just think De Lint's Adult novels are so much deeper and richer. This one was cute. however I am looking forward to reading the newer longer version and to compare!
I was tempted to say something when this book was nominated. I agree 100%with you Shomeret. When I read it a few years ago I had the same thought. I just think De Lint's Adult novels are so much deeper and richer. This one was cute. however I am looking forward to reading the newer longer version and to compare!
I agree with both of you. De Lint's YA fiction often does lack some of the depth and complexity of his adult fiction.
Yes, I agree that it's not complex, but I love the relationship between sisters, and all the characters. It didn't even occur to me to question why the ginseng and bee fairies opposed one another. I suppose that happens a lot in fairy stories, where there's opposing sides in the spirit realm, often over a lover (and often over a human lover as well). It would have been interesting if de Lint had mirrored the natural world with the fairy world, so that the real world reflected in some ways the fairy, so perhaps the bees could have been feistier, or the ginseng plants more difficult to find. Hmm.
This time around I enjoyed it a lot more. I don't know if the beautiful illustrations made this difference, or if I was just more in the mood for something more childish. In any case I also enjoyed the relationships. Not only between the sisters, but between Sara Jane and Aunt Lillian and between Aunt Lillian and the Apple tree Man. The conflict between the Bee Spirit and the Sang Spirits seemed more like a fairy story rather than a nature story, if that makes any sense. I still stand by what I said before about De Lints adult novels being better, but in found this book a fun read!
I really enjoyed Aunt Lillian and the Apple Tree Man as well. I wonder if de Lint ever told their story of when they met? Or now that she's gone to the fairy realm to live with him? I would read that:)
Margaret wrote: "I really enjoyed Aunt Lillian and the Apple Tree Man as well. I wonder if de Lint ever told their story of when they met? Or now that she's gone to the fairy realm to live with him? I would read th..."
Yes! The story of how Aunt Lillian and Apple Tree Man met is in the children's book A Circle of Cats which I guess has now been re-worked into The Cats of Tanglewood Forest. I only read the former, but am now curious about the later!
I'd love read a follow up novel on Aunt Lillian and Apple Man in the Otherworld! Going by what I've read up to now, De Lint does not seem to do follow ups on couples that have gotten together. However Medicine Road is a novel staring the two musician sisters Laurel and Bess. It's technically part of the Newford series, but it's standalone.
Yes! The story of how Aunt Lillian and Apple Tree Man met is in the children's book A Circle of Cats which I guess has now been re-worked into The Cats of Tanglewood Forest. I only read the former, but am now curious about the later!
I'd love read a follow up novel on Aunt Lillian and Apple Man in the Otherworld! Going by what I've read up to now, De Lint does not seem to do follow ups on couples that have gotten together. However Medicine Road is a novel staring the two musician sisters Laurel and Bess. It's technically part of the Newford series, but it's standalone.
Jalilah wrote: "Margaret wrote: "I really enjoyed Aunt Lillian and the Apple Tree Man as well. I wonder if de Lint ever told their story of when they met? Or now that she's gone to the fairy realm to live with him..."
I'll have to read Cats of Tanglewood! I think I'm going to add de Lint to my regular authors. There's a few writers that I constantly return to, and read several of their books a year.
I'll have to read Cats of Tanglewood! I think I'm going to add de Lint to my regular authors. There's a few writers that I constantly return to, and read several of their books a year.
I finally got my hands on a new edition of this and read it this morning. Right off the bat, I'd say it strikes me as "middle grade" rather than "young adult" like the other edition did. Amazing how colorized pictures and bigger margins/line spacing can really change your perception of a story!
I haven't yet put the two editions side by side and compared but I'll try to do that in the next couple of days.
You know, it never really dawned on me while reading Cats of Tanglewood Forest, but if Aunt Lillian is around 80 in this book, that book must have been set sometime in the 1930's or so. Oddly enough, that actually makes me a little more forgiving of Vess's artwork which I found a bit stereotypical. Perhaps he was going for a historical vibe and just overshot by a few decades? I might have to flip through it one more time and try to see it from that perspective.
As far as the bees vs the ginseng - I think he was going for an earth versus air feel. I was googling this morning to see what the ginseng flower looks like and saw these pictures of Ginseng roots.

They really do look like little people! So with the "people" part of the plant underground, I can see thinking of them as "earth" even if portions of the plants are above ground. No, it's not really naturalistic, but I've always thought of de Lint as more of a fairy-taleish writer rather than a realistic/naturalistic writer anyway.
I haven't yet put the two editions side by side and compared but I'll try to do that in the next couple of days.
You know, it never really dawned on me while reading Cats of Tanglewood Forest, but if Aunt Lillian is around 80 in this book, that book must have been set sometime in the 1930's or so. Oddly enough, that actually makes me a little more forgiving of Vess's artwork which I found a bit stereotypical. Perhaps he was going for a historical vibe and just overshot by a few decades? I might have to flip through it one more time and try to see it from that perspective.
As far as the bees vs the ginseng - I think he was going for an earth versus air feel. I was googling this morning to see what the ginseng flower looks like and saw these pictures of Ginseng roots.

They really do look like little people! So with the "people" part of the plant underground, I can see thinking of them as "earth" even if portions of the plants are above ground. No, it's not really naturalistic, but I've always thought of de Lint as more of a fairy-taleish writer rather than a realistic/naturalistic writer anyway.
I'd put this story at upper elementary even. I do think it would be a good read-a-loud with a younger child. I loved the illustrations, but I do like the older look style anyway. I liked the book as a whole for its intended audience.
So, it turns out that it wasn't JUST the font size and illustrations that made me think of it suited for a younger audience than the original.
De Lint has actually taken out quite a bit of material suited for an older audience.
There's some subtle changes throughout. For instance, the woods wasn't originally called Tanglewood - it was just "the forest" or "the woods". Most (if not all) of the text that mentions the girls' ages has been removed. So where before it said exact ages, it now just says who's the eldest and that the others are a bit younger or a bit older.
There's little changes of phrase too... Like the crow language changed from something forgotten to something not understood. It's a subtle change, but the meaning is different.
There's a few paragraphs in the introduction about the darker side of faerie tales that are missing - mostly brief passages about how faeries might kidnap or otherwise trick/harm incautious girls.
The "at least it's my life" topic with the girls' mother originally referred to an uncle of theirs who'd driven his small company bankrupt and therefore presumably impacted the lives of his employees.
The really big changes regard the kids' sexuality. In the old version Adie explicitly isn't celibate - that whole sentence was removed and the remaining sentence that came just before implies that she is. There's a paragraph about Elsie not developing significant curves during puberty and remaining tom-boyish in figure. That's about half gone and all that's left is a description of her being thin and wiry. There was an initial conversation between Aunt Lillian and Sarah Jane where Lillian says that she doesn't need to worry about "men" just yet and Sarah Jane remarks that her sisters have informed her that all men want is sex. The new version changes "men" to "fellas" in Aunt Lillian's initial remark, removes the conversation entirely and goes straight to offering lemonade.
There's a rather long paragraph about how Apple Tree Man might find an older and therefore more bony Aunt Lillian more attractive because now she now more closely resembles him that was completely removed.
I'm still only halfway through comparing the two versions, but despite being able to fit fewer words on each page and the addition of illustrations, there was enough removed in the first couple of chapters that up to around page 20 or 30, the page numbers more or less matched up. After that, though, it slowed down a lot and the new version pulled ahead quickly.
My memory of the last chapter doesn't really match up with what's there - I remember it being a bit more detailed on meeting the boy - so I'm interested to get to that part of the story and see what's been removed there too.
De Lint has actually taken out quite a bit of material suited for an older audience.
There's some subtle changes throughout. For instance, the woods wasn't originally called Tanglewood - it was just "the forest" or "the woods". Most (if not all) of the text that mentions the girls' ages has been removed. So where before it said exact ages, it now just says who's the eldest and that the others are a bit younger or a bit older.
There's little changes of phrase too... Like the crow language changed from something forgotten to something not understood. It's a subtle change, but the meaning is different.
There's a few paragraphs in the introduction about the darker side of faerie tales that are missing - mostly brief passages about how faeries might kidnap or otherwise trick/harm incautious girls.
The "at least it's my life" topic with the girls' mother originally referred to an uncle of theirs who'd driven his small company bankrupt and therefore presumably impacted the lives of his employees.
The really big changes regard the kids' sexuality. In the old version Adie explicitly isn't celibate - that whole sentence was removed and the remaining sentence that came just before implies that she is. There's a paragraph about Elsie not developing significant curves during puberty and remaining tom-boyish in figure. That's about half gone and all that's left is a description of her being thin and wiry. There was an initial conversation between Aunt Lillian and Sarah Jane where Lillian says that she doesn't need to worry about "men" just yet and Sarah Jane remarks that her sisters have informed her that all men want is sex. The new version changes "men" to "fellas" in Aunt Lillian's initial remark, removes the conversation entirely and goes straight to offering lemonade.
There's a rather long paragraph about how Apple Tree Man might find an older and therefore more bony Aunt Lillian more attractive because now she now more closely resembles him that was completely removed.
I'm still only halfway through comparing the two versions, but despite being able to fit fewer words on each page and the addition of illustrations, there was enough removed in the first couple of chapters that up to around page 20 or 30, the page numbers more or less matched up. After that, though, it slowed down a lot and the new version pulled ahead quickly.
My memory of the last chapter doesn't really match up with what's there - I remember it being a bit more detailed on meeting the boy - so I'm interested to get to that part of the story and see what's been removed there too.
Interesting! I had assumed he'd written more stuff in, not taken stuff out. Do you think it reads better written toward a younger audience, or do you prefer the older version? I can see that if I'd thought it was geared to teenagers, I might not have liked it as much. I definitely considered it in the 8-12 year-old category.
I love those ginseng roots, by the way! No wonder they inspired fairy tales about them!
I love those ginseng roots, by the way! No wonder they inspired fairy tales about them!
Hm. That's kind of hard to say. The stuff that's been taken out does add a little more depth to the characters but not as much depth as he would typically have in his adult novels so I don't really miss it. It reads more or less the same with it as without it, I think, because with the exception of a bit about Apple Tree Man and Aunt Lillian, none of the changes really impact the plot or the character's motivations. I rated both versions 4 stars so I liked it about the same.
I'm kind of in an odd spot. I read the previous version long enough ago to forget most of the details but when I was reading the new version I had this niggling feeling of "The intro was different" and "the ending was different" then random feelings here and there of "huh, wasn't there a bit more to THIS scene before?" So I wasn't coming at it from a completely unbiased perspective, so now that I'm scanning the books for paragraphs that look like they're a different length than their counterparts when I see one it's either a "ha! I was right!" or a "Weird, I wonder why he took that out" type of feeling.
And there's been a couple of passages that when I'm re-reading it I wondered why those passages/conversations were even there in the first place. (Like the conversation about the older sisters saying all men wanted was sex. WTF? Not that they wouldn't have said that in their sister's hearing, but that's not generally something you would discuss with a perfect stranger.)
It's a mixed bag, I guess. But if he can open it up to a wider age group by taking out a few remarks about puberty and sex, being vague about ages and adding colorized drawings without changing the heart of the story, it seems like a smart business decision on his end.
I'm kind of in an odd spot. I read the previous version long enough ago to forget most of the details but when I was reading the new version I had this niggling feeling of "The intro was different" and "the ending was different" then random feelings here and there of "huh, wasn't there a bit more to THIS scene before?" So I wasn't coming at it from a completely unbiased perspective, so now that I'm scanning the books for paragraphs that look like they're a different length than their counterparts when I see one it's either a "ha! I was right!" or a "Weird, I wonder why he took that out" type of feeling.
And there's been a couple of passages that when I'm re-reading it I wondered why those passages/conversations were even there in the first place. (Like the conversation about the older sisters saying all men wanted was sex. WTF? Not that they wouldn't have said that in their sister's hearing, but that's not generally something you would discuss with a perfect stranger.)
It's a mixed bag, I guess. But if he can open it up to a wider age group by taking out a few remarks about puberty and sex, being vague about ages and adding colorized drawings without changing the heart of the story, it seems like a smart business decision on his end.
First of all thanks Melanti, for posting the pictures of the ginseng roots! They really do look like little root men and I can see how they might have inspired the story!
Second, I am glad to know I was not imaging things! Although it had been a while since I'd read the first version I also missed certain parts. In particular the part, I think it's near the end when aunt Liliane decides to stay in the Otherworld, it's implied that the aunt in her advanced age looked like the apple tree man herself and must therefore seem attractive to him. At the time I found that part very endearing and it stayed in my memory. I wanted to mention it here, but when I looked for it I could not find it, leaving me with the feeling that it must have been in another story! Now I would not have found that part inappropriate for younger children! Also was there not more about the artist who stayed in Faerie?
Second, I am glad to know I was not imaging things! Although it had been a while since I'd read the first version I also missed certain parts. In particular the part, I think it's near the end when aunt Liliane decides to stay in the Otherworld, it's implied that the aunt in her advanced age looked like the apple tree man herself and must therefore seem attractive to him. At the time I found that part very endearing and it stayed in my memory. I wanted to mention it here, but when I looked for it I could not find it, leaving me with the feeling that it must have been in another story! Now I would not have found that part inappropriate for younger children! Also was there not more about the artist who stayed in Faerie?
I still am only about half way done so I don't know what exactly was removed from the last few chapters. I'll probably finish off the comparison sometime this week - I need to read at a table and I very rarely do that. The bit about the aunt looking more attractive to Apple Tree Man is talked about rather early on - only a few pages after we meet him. I'm sure it'll come up again when Aunt Lillian decides to stay behind. That's the one thing out of everything I think de Lint really should have left in regardless because it really is important, IMO.
I think they just went through and removed anything remotely sexual in nature... boyfriends, puberty, one person finding another attractive, etc. God forbid you think of someone old enough to be your grandmother and boyfriends in the same thought! Now that I'm seeing what all they've removed, I'm kind of surprised they left in the bit about Adie running off with a boyfriend.
As far as the artist that stayed in Faerie, I THINK there's more but I don't remember if the "more" is later on in this book or if he has a short story of his own.
I think they just went through and removed anything remotely sexual in nature... boyfriends, puberty, one person finding another attractive, etc. God forbid you think of someone old enough to be your grandmother and boyfriends in the same thought! Now that I'm seeing what all they've removed, I'm kind of surprised they left in the bit about Adie running off with a boyfriend.
As far as the artist that stayed in Faerie, I THINK there's more but I don't remember if the "more" is later on in this book or if he has a short story of his own.
Melanti wrote: "I still am only about half way done so I don't know what exactly was removed from the last few chapters. I'll probably finish off the comparison sometime this week - I need to read at a table and ..."
Okay, it was earlier on! I could not remember where in the book, only that I found it (Aunt Liliane looking attractive to Apple Tree Man) really sweet. It's rare to find any kind of love story happening between older people. I agree completely De Lint should have left that part in! I think if anything, they could have left the part of Adie running away with boy out instead. As a parent I would find that way more inappropriate.
Re the story about the other famous artist who disappeared, I think you may be right that it's in another story. So now I am very curious about the Cats of Tanglewood Forest!
Okay, it was earlier on! I could not remember where in the book, only that I found it (Aunt Liliane looking attractive to Apple Tree Man) really sweet. It's rare to find any kind of love story happening between older people. I agree completely De Lint should have left that part in! I think if anything, they could have left the part of Adie running away with boy out instead. As a parent I would find that way more inappropriate.
Re the story about the other famous artist who disappeared, I think you may be right that it's in another story. So now I am very curious about the Cats of Tanglewood Forest!
As far as the artist that stayed in Faerie, I THINK there's more but I don't remember if the "more" is later on in this book or if he has a short story of his own.I opened Waifs and Strays to find "Somewhere in My Mind there's a Painting Box," which he says in the introduction is also in The Green Man: Tales from the Mythic Forest. It's about Lily and Milo Johnson.
I thought "The Pochade Box" was about these characters, but it's about Jilly, Tommy and Maisie and set in Newford.
Jalilah wrote: " I think if anything, they could have left the part of Adie running away with boy out instead. As a parent I would find that way more inappropriate...."
Yep! Running away from home to shack up with a boyfriend is MUCH more inappropriate than an 80-yr-old being attractive to a life-long friend. Shrug. Who knows how editors think sometimes.
Julia wrote: "I opened Waifs and Strays to find "Somewhere in My Mind there's a Painting Box," which he says in the introduction is also in The Green Man: Tales from the Mythic Forest. It's about Lily and Milo Johnson...."
You're right. "Somewhere in My Mind there's a Painting Box" is absolutely it. It's quite possible it's talked about more within this book and I just haven't gotten there yet, (or even mentioned in one of the other Newford novels) but that's the story I'm thinking of.
It was also reprinted in Muse and Reverie.
Yep! Running away from home to shack up with a boyfriend is MUCH more inappropriate than an 80-yr-old being attractive to a life-long friend. Shrug. Who knows how editors think sometimes.
Julia wrote: "I opened Waifs and Strays to find "Somewhere in My Mind there's a Painting Box," which he says in the introduction is also in The Green Man: Tales from the Mythic Forest. It's about Lily and Milo Johnson...."
You're right. "Somewhere in My Mind there's a Painting Box" is absolutely it. It's quite possible it's talked about more within this book and I just haven't gotten there yet, (or even mentioned in one of the other Newford novels) but that's the story I'm thinking of.
It was also reprinted in Muse and Reverie.
So, once the action starts, the more things start to change.
All the standard changes apply - slightly simplifying the language, removing references to ages and potential boyfriends, etc... He also re-orders some of the action to be a bit more sequential and a bit less morally ambiguous. (Adie originally hits the bee-fairy a second time just as he's getting up. Not after he's already gotten up and starts calling for help)
I also noticed that the kids started emoting a bit more - stamping feet during arguments, bursting into tears instead of simply crying, etc. And since they took out most references to ages, it makes them seem younger than they are.
There's also a few new paragraphs here and there (the first new content! yay!) but those paragraphs mostly transitions between scenes and not anything major. One new thing is the short conversation between Sarah Jane and Laurel and Bess when they're first freed and she's explaining the situation with the bee-fairies to them.
A couple of interesting removed lines I saw was one where they were talking about rescuing the younger twins. "They may be brats, but they're our brats." It's an odd line to remove. Wouldn't you WANT kids to know you still love them even if they misbehave?
There's a paragraph or two of doubting the plan during the dancing that was mostly removed so that Sarah Jane comes off as quite a bit more confident and less afraid than she was. Are kids not allowed to be scared?
There's another line while Aunt Lillian and the Apple Tree Man were flirting where Sarah Jane is surprised because she thought Aunt Lillian was too old to have sex. (It's phrased a bit more subtly than that though.) I guess I'm not really surprised they took it out considering everything else removed, but it did make me giggle a bit so I'm sad it's gone. And of course there's another reference to Aunt Lillian looking "like Adie at her worst" that was removed - cause neither Adie or Aunt Lillian would ever be boy-crazy, right??
As far as the ending, the part with the boy that I thought was missing something actually wasn't missing more than a few lines of Sarah Jane having a crush.
But there were several vignette style scenes that showed the future - them telling their mother what happened, using some of the money from selling the artwork to pay off the family mortgage, Sarah Jane dropping out of school and moving to the homestead, a bit about Laurel & Bess going on tour (which would tie it into Medicine Road) and the younger twins' friendship with Lil' Pater, Adie having a kid out of wedlock and staying at home with their mother to raise it, Elsie finally moving out to the homestead with Sarah Jane and becoming an artist while Sarah Jane started writing.
All the standard changes apply - slightly simplifying the language, removing references to ages and potential boyfriends, etc... He also re-orders some of the action to be a bit more sequential and a bit less morally ambiguous. (Adie originally hits the bee-fairy a second time just as he's getting up. Not after he's already gotten up and starts calling for help)
I also noticed that the kids started emoting a bit more - stamping feet during arguments, bursting into tears instead of simply crying, etc. And since they took out most references to ages, it makes them seem younger than they are.
There's also a few new paragraphs here and there (the first new content! yay!) but those paragraphs mostly transitions between scenes and not anything major. One new thing is the short conversation between Sarah Jane and Laurel and Bess when they're first freed and she's explaining the situation with the bee-fairies to them.
A couple of interesting removed lines I saw was one where they were talking about rescuing the younger twins. "They may be brats, but they're our brats." It's an odd line to remove. Wouldn't you WANT kids to know you still love them even if they misbehave?
There's a paragraph or two of doubting the plan during the dancing that was mostly removed so that Sarah Jane comes off as quite a bit more confident and less afraid than she was. Are kids not allowed to be scared?
There's another line while Aunt Lillian and the Apple Tree Man were flirting where Sarah Jane is surprised because she thought Aunt Lillian was too old to have sex. (It's phrased a bit more subtly than that though.) I guess I'm not really surprised they took it out considering everything else removed, but it did make me giggle a bit so I'm sad it's gone. And of course there's another reference to Aunt Lillian looking "like Adie at her worst" that was removed - cause neither Adie or Aunt Lillian would ever be boy-crazy, right??
As far as the ending, the part with the boy that I thought was missing something actually wasn't missing more than a few lines of Sarah Jane having a crush.
But there were several vignette style scenes that showed the future - them telling their mother what happened, using some of the money from selling the artwork to pay off the family mortgage, Sarah Jane dropping out of school and moving to the homestead, a bit about Laurel & Bess going on tour (which would tie it into Medicine Road) and the younger twins' friendship with Lil' Pater, Adie having a kid out of wedlock and staying at home with their mother to raise it, Elsie finally moving out to the homestead with Sarah Jane and becoming an artist while Sarah Jane started writing.
Hmm, it seems like he removed stuff that would've been good to keep in. Though I actually did have the impression that Aunt Lillian and The Apple Tree Man had once had a relationship and were going to again, and that Adie did have a lot of experience with men, so I think some of that still seeped into the newer version.
Yeah, Adie having boyfriends in the past is still there as is running off with one but any mention of current or future boyfriends is gone. As is any mention of having sex with said past boyfriends.
Aunt Lillian/The Tree Man is still there too, but it's couched in terms of generalities like "courting" and friendships instead of anything mentioning physical attraction. As adults we know one implies the other, of course, but now we have to come to that conclusion ourselves.
To give you an idea of some of it, the scene Jalilah and I were talking about earlier originally read:
If they'd ever been a couple, I guess he'd been the one to end it. I already knew that Aunt Lillian wasn't too happy about it, but now I got the sense that maybe he wasn't either. I thought about some of the things he'd been saying, then looked at the pair of them.
Old as she was with her own wrinkles and all, Aunt Lillian was probably more like an apple tree fairy now than she'd probably ever been in all the time he'd known her. Maybe the reason he'd been seeing less of her now than he used to wasn't so much because of what fairies can wake in a human, but because year by year she grew more attractive to him and he didn't trust himself around her. Figured they'd be happy for a time, but then she'd be gone, seeing's how our lives are so fleeting, while theirs go on forever. Maybe he just knew he couldn't bear the heartbreak.
And maybe I was just being a hopeless romantic and there wasn't any such thing going on between the pair of them.
All that was left was the first two sentences.
Aunt Lillian/The Tree Man is still there too, but it's couched in terms of generalities like "courting" and friendships instead of anything mentioning physical attraction. As adults we know one implies the other, of course, but now we have to come to that conclusion ourselves.
To give you an idea of some of it, the scene Jalilah and I were talking about earlier originally read:
If they'd ever been a couple, I guess he'd been the one to end it. I already knew that Aunt Lillian wasn't too happy about it, but now I got the sense that maybe he wasn't either. I thought about some of the things he'd been saying, then looked at the pair of them.
Old as she was with her own wrinkles and all, Aunt Lillian was probably more like an apple tree fairy now than she'd probably ever been in all the time he'd known her. Maybe the reason he'd been seeing less of her now than he used to wasn't so much because of what fairies can wake in a human, but because year by year she grew more attractive to him and he didn't trust himself around her. Figured they'd be happy for a time, but then she'd be gone, seeing's how our lives are so fleeting, while theirs go on forever. Maybe he just knew he couldn't bear the heartbreak.
And maybe I was just being a hopeless romantic and there wasn't any such thing going on between the pair of them.
All that was left was the first two sentences.
That's lovely! I do wish he'd left that in! I don't think it would be inappropriate at all for middle graders. In fact, I think it's probably a good concept for that age, that you can love at any time, have heartbreak at any time.
If I had to pick one single change to revert, it would be that particular passage. Too bad de Lint isn't really active online like Neil Gaiman is - we could just ask him why the change was made. Of course, if we were talking about Gaiman, he probably would have already written a blog post or tweeted about it anyway...
I haven't read this redacted version, but the changes make it sound like it should be retitled The Seven Somewhat Tamer Sisters.
Melanti, that's exactly the part that I was mentioning that I remembered from the last time I read it, but couldn't find it this time! It really is sweet.
Margaret wrote: "That's lovely! I do wish he'd left that in! I don't think it would be inappropriate at all for middle graders. In fact, I think it's probably a good concept for that age, that you can love at any t..."
I agree! There is nothing in it that would be inappropriate for middle graders! Well, not for me, but I guess some parents are very particular. When my son was in 4th grade his class was studying whales, so he suggested bringing in the film Free Willy. The teacher said that it was considered "inappropriate" and that the film had been shown some years before and some parents complained because there was a kissing scene!
Melanti wrote: "If I had to pick one single change to revert, it would be that particular passage. Too bad de Lint isn't really active online like Neil Gaiman is - we could just ask him why the change was made. ..."
Same here! I wish he could revert it! De Lint does go on Facebook. My son did a book report for school on Over My Head and asked De Lint some questions on his Facebook wall and De Lint took the time and replied. He and his wife MaryAnn have a Facebook group called. Mythic Cafe and be will answer questions there too although group seems to be more visual with people posting art work, photos etc.
I am tempted to ask him about why he left that great part out, but just hope I don't want to appear too nerdy. Should I?
Margaret wrote: "That's lovely! I do wish he'd left that in! I don't think it would be inappropriate at all for middle graders. In fact, I think it's probably a good concept for that age, that you can love at any t..."
I agree! There is nothing in it that would be inappropriate for middle graders! Well, not for me, but I guess some parents are very particular. When my son was in 4th grade his class was studying whales, so he suggested bringing in the film Free Willy. The teacher said that it was considered "inappropriate" and that the film had been shown some years before and some parents complained because there was a kissing scene!
Melanti wrote: "If I had to pick one single change to revert, it would be that particular passage. Too bad de Lint isn't really active online like Neil Gaiman is - we could just ask him why the change was made. ..."
Same here! I wish he could revert it! De Lint does go on Facebook. My son did a book report for school on Over My Head and asked De Lint some questions on his Facebook wall and De Lint took the time and replied. He and his wife MaryAnn have a Facebook group called. Mythic Cafe and be will answer questions there too although group seems to be more visual with people posting art work, photos etc.
I am tempted to ask him about why he left that great part out, but just hope I don't want to appear too nerdy. Should I?
Shomeret wrote: "I haven't read this redacted version, but the changes make it sound like it should be retitled The Seven Somewhat Tamer Sisters."
Ha! And yes, that would be apt.
Jalilah wrote: "I am tempted to ask him about that great part he left out, but just hope I don't want to appear too nerdy. Should I? ..."
Oooh, I always forget Facebook exists. I looked on his website for a blog or anything similar and didn't anything listed so I assumed he didn't have one.
I don't think asking about one particular passage would be THAT nerdy... Now me, with listing all the various changes - that's probably going a bit too far, but one favorite passage would be fine, I think.
Some parents are way too overprotective.
Ha! And yes, that would be apt.
Jalilah wrote: "I am tempted to ask him about that great part he left out, but just hope I don't want to appear too nerdy. Should I? ..."
Oooh, I always forget Facebook exists. I looked on his website for a blog or anything similar and didn't anything listed so I assumed he didn't have one.
I don't think asking about one particular passage would be THAT nerdy... Now me, with listing all the various changes - that's probably going a bit too far, but one favorite passage would be fine, I think.
Some parents are way too overprotective.
Melanti wrote: "If I had to pick one single change to revert, it would be that particular passage. Too bad de Lint isn't really active online like Neil Gaiman is - we could just ask him why the change was made. ..."
I think I will go ahead and ask him on Facebook.
I've announced this group on his FB group whenever we've read any of his novels, but I don't think anyone ever joined. I'll just ask about Aunt Liliane and Old Apple Tree Man.
Shomeret wrote: "I haven't read this redacted version, but the changes make it sound like it should be retitled The Seven Somewhat Tamer Sisters."
LOL Shomeret!
I think I will go ahead and ask him on Facebook.
I've announced this group on his FB group whenever we've read any of his novels, but I don't think anyone ever joined. I'll just ask about Aunt Liliane and Old Apple Tree Man.
Shomeret wrote: "I haven't read this redacted version, but the changes make it sound like it should be retitled The Seven Somewhat Tamer Sisters."
LOL Shomeret!
Jalilah wrote: "Melanti wrote: "If I had to pick one single change to revert, it would be that particular passage. Too bad de Lint isn't really active online like Neil Gaiman is - we could just ask him why the ch..."
Sounds good! I'm interested in why that was cut.
Sounds good! I'm interested in why that was cut.
I did ask in the Mythic Cafe group and this is what MaryAnn, De Lint's wife replied:
"It was a lovely paragraph (sniff). Some parts of the original version were considered by the publisher to be *too adult* for middle grade readers, and they were Extremely focused on that younger audience. I agree it's a shame that we lost some good bits, and hope the Goodreads readers are still enjoying the book."
So it's what you thought Melanti!
"It was a lovely paragraph (sniff). Some parts of the original version were considered by the publisher to be *too adult* for middle grade readers, and they were Extremely focused on that younger audience. I agree it's a shame that we lost some good bits, and hope the Goodreads readers are still enjoying the book."
So it's what you thought Melanti!
MaryAnn also had this to say regarding the bees:
"I've had a chance to read the comments on Goodreads, and on the environmental front, I can't help wanting to point out that when the book was written around thirteen years ago, bees were not endangered, but wild ginseng certainly was (and still is) because of illegal poaching. Charles and I love (and want to protect) bees even though he happens to be allergic to them.
Maybe I shouldn't try to set the record straight, but knowing that people have the wrong impression just makes me feel bad for Charles. It was the fable that came to him at that point in time, and it wasn't written for any particular age group or with any agenda. Besides, the bees themselves were not the "bad guys,"
[SPOILER]
but rather, there was just the bad queen.
[END OF SPOILER]
Little Brown was very insistent about the changes that were made to this new version, but we felt that the story retained most of its charm, and we were excited about Charles Vess's colour work, and getting the story out again to entertain kids as well as those steadfast adult readers.
Well, I see I'm rambling now. Thanks for listening and of course we don't want to impede any further conversation. Part of the love of books is being able to talk about them!"
I have in the past posted the link to this group on Charles and Mary Ann's FB Group and I did so this time too. On one hand I must admit that I felt kind of bad that Mary Ann read the comments (apparently Charles never reads any reviews), but at the same time I think it's really okay. We are an honest, but a very nice and polite group!
"I've had a chance to read the comments on Goodreads, and on the environmental front, I can't help wanting to point out that when the book was written around thirteen years ago, bees were not endangered, but wild ginseng certainly was (and still is) because of illegal poaching. Charles and I love (and want to protect) bees even though he happens to be allergic to them.
Maybe I shouldn't try to set the record straight, but knowing that people have the wrong impression just makes me feel bad for Charles. It was the fable that came to him at that point in time, and it wasn't written for any particular age group or with any agenda. Besides, the bees themselves were not the "bad guys,"
[SPOILER]
but rather, there was just the bad queen.
[END OF SPOILER]
Little Brown was very insistent about the changes that were made to this new version, but we felt that the story retained most of its charm, and we were excited about Charles Vess's colour work, and getting the story out again to entertain kids as well as those steadfast adult readers.
Well, I see I'm rambling now. Thanks for listening and of course we don't want to impede any further conversation. Part of the love of books is being able to talk about them!"
I have in the past posted the link to this group on Charles and Mary Ann's FB Group and I did so this time too. On one hand I must admit that I felt kind of bad that Mary Ann read the comments (apparently Charles never reads any reviews), but at the same time I think it's really okay. We are an honest, but a very nice and polite group!
I never thought of that but yes, the bee population issue is relatively recent.
Vess's artwork is gorgeous! Any excuse for some glossy colorized versions of his work is a good reason for me.
And as I said earlier, the spirit of the work wasn't changed so I'm not too upset about the changes.
We do tend to be a friendly group in general, and I think it all helps that a lot of us are de Lint fans. I'm glad Mary Ann got a chance to chime in on her and Charles' behalf.
Vess's artwork is gorgeous! Any excuse for some glossy colorized versions of his work is a good reason for me.
And as I said earlier, the spirit of the work wasn't changed so I'm not too upset about the changes.
We do tend to be a friendly group in general, and I think it all helps that a lot of us are de Lint fans. I'm glad Mary Ann got a chance to chime in on her and Charles' behalf.
Thanks Jalilah. Interesting notes on MaryAnn's comments. I'll definitely recommend the book to my friends that have younger children. And to my older children too.
I'm glad she responded! I did think that both the bees and the ginseng fairies were equally responsible for the war between them. While I did really like that paragraph about Aunt Lillian, I did find the novel charming without it, and I'm keeping it purely for my adult self--maybe I'll read it to my youngest niece and nephew when they're old enough:)
I do find it interesting what publishers decide to change in fiction. I went to a middle grade panel a couple of years ago with Kelly Barnhill, Catherynne M. Valente, A.J. Hartley, and someone else but I can't remember who, and they talked about how their publishers often picked the titles for their novels--except for Valente, who said she'd throw a fit if anyone tried to change her titles! She did say that publishers made her break-up her sentences into smaller sentences, which anyone who's read Valente can understand that her sentences are a bit complex for middle graders. They also talked about how they had no control over the covers. But it seems like de Lint must have some control over the art, since Vess illustrates so many of his works. I thought the color illustrations were beautiful.
I do find it interesting what publishers decide to change in fiction. I went to a middle grade panel a couple of years ago with Kelly Barnhill, Catherynne M. Valente, A.J. Hartley, and someone else but I can't remember who, and they talked about how their publishers often picked the titles for their novels--except for Valente, who said she'd throw a fit if anyone tried to change her titles! She did say that publishers made her break-up her sentences into smaller sentences, which anyone who's read Valente can understand that her sentences are a bit complex for middle graders. They also talked about how they had no control over the covers. But it seems like de Lint must have some control over the art, since Vess illustrates so many of his works. I thought the color illustrations were beautiful.
The Cats of Tanglewood Forest
I am currently reading and it's so good. I am loving it more than
.
I highly recommend it! It's really delightful.
I am currently reading and it's so good. I am loving it more than
. I highly recommend it! It's really delightful.
Jalilah wrote: "The Cats of Tanglewood Forest
I am currently reading and it's so good. I am loving it more than [bookcover:Seven Wild Sisters|29191..."
I just found a used copy of the new version of The Cats of Tanglewood Forest! I'm looking forward to read it, especially since I really liked Seven Wild Sisters.
I am currently reading and it's so good. I am loving it more than [bookcover:Seven Wild Sisters|29191..."I just found a used copy of the new version of The Cats of Tanglewood Forest! I'm looking forward to read it, especially since I really liked Seven Wild Sisters.
The Cats of Tanglewood Forest was 5 stars for me. I really loved the combination of the Folklore-Fairy Tale aspect with the time going back in time/time travel/alternate reality/(however you describe it)!
Together with the gorgeous illustrations I got totally sucked into that world and felt like staying.
In the past I've said that De Lint's adult novels are deeper and richer, and it's true, however this one was very thought provoking and touched me in quite a deep way.
Also, I am sure I read somewhere a story about (view spoiler) Is this in the Paintbox story you mentioned Melanti?
Did anyone else notice Aunt Nancy from Forests of the Heart?
Together with the gorgeous illustrations I got totally sucked into that world and felt like staying.
In the past I've said that De Lint's adult novels are deeper and richer, and it's true, however this one was very thought provoking and touched me in quite a deep way.
Also, I am sure I read somewhere a story about (view spoiler) Is this in the Paintbox story you mentioned Melanti?
Did anyone else notice Aunt Nancy from Forests of the Heart?
Maybe I was jst in a bad mood or something the day I read The Cats of Tanglewood Forest. (I did note in my book I was having a bad week...)
I remember not liking something about the illustrations? The buckskins, specifically, I think, struck me as being kinda sterotypical. But I wasn't taking into account how long ago the book was set...
The paintbox story is about the artists who get stuck in Fairy. I don't remember if it has Liliane in there or not (probably)
I remember not liking something about the illustrations? The buckskins, specifically, I think, struck me as being kinda sterotypical. But I wasn't taking into account how long ago the book was set...
The paintbox story is about the artists who get stuck in Fairy. I don't remember if it has Liliane in there or not (probably)
A very cute story. Love the passage posted in message 23 about Aunt Lillian and the Apple Tree Man. (Thanks, Melanti!) I agree...sure wish it would have been kept in the newer version.One annoying thing for me was that in a book filled with beautiful illustrations, why, oh why do they give detailed descriptions of Aunt Lillian's and Milo Johnson's art and no pictures??? I was curious about the pictures in the Apple Tree Man's house, and the ones in the chest at Lillian's house.
Monica wrote: "why do they give detailed descriptions of Aunt Lillian's and Milo Johnson's art and no pictures???."
Good point!
Good point!
Margaret wrote: "Monica wrote: "why do they give detailed descriptions of Aunt Lillian's and Milo Johnson's art and no pictures???."Good point!"
Because having the illustrator come up with two different artistic styles that fit the descriptions is tough.
Maybe because it wouldn't really have worked in the original black and white drawings - especially if it was a small pic hung on a wall or held in someone's hand - and perhaps it was deemed not of interest to the middle grade version.
Good points about the "missing" artists' pictures.The concept of the Apple Tree Man was mysterious. Were there other Apple Tree Men/Women? Why would he be the lone figure of this his kind? Or did I miss something in the story?
Monica wrote: "The concept of the Apple Tree Man was mysterious. Were there other Apple Tree Men/Women? Why would he be the lone figure of this his kind? Or did I miss something in the story? ."
It's been a while now since I read it, but I think of him as a Green Man figure. So, he's the only one in that forest, but other forests might also have a protector.
It could also be sort of like ents. Other trees might have men/women, but they've forgotten, or they're asleep.
It's been a while now since I read it, but I think of him as a Green Man figure. So, he's the only one in that forest, but other forests might also have a protector.
It could also be sort of like ents. Other trees might have men/women, but they've forgotten, or they're asleep.
Books mentioned in this topic
Forests of the Heart (other topics)The Cats of Tanglewood Forest (other topics)
The Cats of Tanglewood Forest (other topics)
The Cats of Tanglewood Forest (other topics)
Seven Wild Sisters (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Kelly Barnhill (other topics)Catherynne M. Valente (other topics)
A.J. Hartley (other topics)
Charles de Lint (other topics)





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