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Dombey and Son
Dombey and Son
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Dombey, Chapters 1 - 4
Dombey & Son. What struck me most in the opening chapters was the skill with which Dickens manages to unveil Florence, almost as an accident or an afterthought, something that came about by lack of proper concerted effort on the part of her faint transparent mama, who did not see to exert herself enough. It is almost as if Florence's mama does not have the energy or concentration of power to produce anything that is of value, anything that makes her a real Dombey, and so with her last gasps she finally produces a male heir--a real Dombey-- and that exertion takes the last life breath out of her, and she is gone, barely missed, but for the fact that there is nobody to nurse the infant Paul.
The older daughter Florence does not impress or even concern her father. She is simply there, as a piece of furniture, a female, unimportant, and only cared for in the sense that she has food, clothing, and is allowed to move about in the family dwelling. It is the son Mr. Dombey is after, the son he must have -- that has been a dynastic concern of all Britons since before Henry VIII.
Florence, like her poor mama, will never really "be a Dombey", an achievement which is never totally defined in the early chapters, but we get the impression that it includes 'effort' --- something Florence is deemed not capable of, chiefly, I think because she is a girl.
Dombey-ness entails maleness, mostly. It is expressed indirectly, also, as 'putting in effort'. Mr. Dombey and his sister desperately want to immediately see Dombey-ness in the new little baby, and so they do, as they analyze his physiognomy, though when one reads the initial chapters, it is clear that little Paul is frail, and probably will not be able to exert himself much either.
When poor little Paul's mama is on her death bed, she is asked by Dombey's sister to exert a little more effort (or she will have to scold her severely ) Indeed, it is her duty to do so, but no effort is forthcoming, and the lady dies with her neglected daughter Florence's arms around her neck.
We get the sense that Florence mourns, but that nobody else is terribly upset, apart from the fact that Paul now needs a nurse.
I found it incredible that the nurse not only has to assume the name Richards, but that she has to give up most contact with her own family in the process of taking care of Paul. One truly gets the sense that Dombey is so concerned about his own importance and the importance of his son, that he cannot even consider the humanity and needs of a plain lower class woman and the needs of her husband and children. -- He runs one of the best regulated families, he is a man of finance, obsessed with money, and we get the sense that nobody and nothing else matters.
I enjoyed these first four chapters.What struck me throughout was the horrible (and unnecessary) sadness and despair of the Dombey family.
Mr. Dombey is in a prison of aloofness. He keeps everyone in his family at bay. His wife was some sort of necessity and she somehow (socially, attractively, etc) fit a mold that he was looking for. Yet he wants closeness, as is seen in the scene with Florence in his study but he turns away instead. Too much hurt if he gives in? Too much exposure somehow? Whatever it is that holds him back, isn't necessary and could be changed with courage and faith. But he doesn't seem to have any of this in his heart. So, so sad.
Mrs. Dombey was in love with someone else (perhaps pregnant by him??) and somehow felt that she had to marry Dombey.
Does Mr. Dombey know of the previous love? I rather doubt it but he is overly concerned about Paul being swapped out for the Toodle's baby. Is he concerned with raising another child that is not his own? He could only be so if he knew of the other love, which I doubt, so this is a doubtful scenario. It's probably just that he's so concerned about a Son to continue the business.
Florence wants her father's love but he somehow blames her for being saddened at her mother's death. He seems hurt somehow that Florence would care for someone more than she cares for him. Yet, he's never given her the time of day, so how can he expect that much emotion from the child? Yet, she loves him dearly and waits only for a sign to show it.
All of this sadness could be avoided and this family could go into the future happy and whole. (but then, we wouldn't have the story to look forward to)
Thank goodness for Mrs. Toodle. She's a ray of sunshine in poor Florence's life. She at least brings a touch of normalcy to her life and, because of her, Florence is getting to know her brother. There's hope for some sort of a family relationship developing between them that may save the future of their family (not business-wise; emotional-wise).
The Gills are wonderful, salt of the earth people and seem very caring but that chapter was almost manic compared to the other three. So much activity, talking and camaraderie that it felt almost out of place compared to the other chapters. Dickens has set it up for Walter to be Florence's future husband (if nothing changes). I wonder why he was so open about that so early in the novel? I'm sure he has some surprises up his sleeve yet about everything.
All in all, I loved these first chapters. They tore at my heart strings, showed wonderful characters, plenty of potential plot twists (Miss Tox & Mr Dombey???) and has set this story up to be able to go in so many different directions. And I'm sure we haven't seen all the potential plots & characters yet.
Thank you, Lene and Petra, for your detailed and interesting observations!The equation of Dombey-ness and maleness is a promising starting-point, to my mind, as it might also explain why Dombey is shutting himself up in the prison of aloofness, as Petra calls it. Maybe in the Victorian era it was considered unmanly to wear your heart up your sleeve (at least, in the social circles Mr. Dombey belongs to). Keeping up appearances, keeping up a stiff upper lip, were probably important assets in the business world since this air of aloofness, of not being easily shaken and quickly moved, might also represent financial security and reliability. Apart from that, Mr. Dombey is rather bigheaded and full of himself, as the following passage shows,
"The earth was made for Dombey and Son to trade in, and the sun and moon were made to give them light. Rivers and seas were formed to float their ships; rainbows gave them promise of fair weather; winds blew for or against their enterprises; stars and planets circled in their orbits, to preserve inviolate a system of which they were the centre. Common abbreviations took new meanings in his eyes, and had sole reference to them. A. D. had no concern with Anno Domini, but stood for anno Dombei—and Son."
Such hubris does call for a big fall.
I would also read these lines
"Of those years he had been married, ten—married, as some said, to a lady with no heart to give him; whose happiness was in the past, and who was content to bind her broken spirit to the dutiful and meek endurance of the present."
as proof that, like Petra said, Mrs. Dombey used to be in love with somebody else but that somehow her tender hopes were crushed, but I don't really know if she has been pregnant by this mysterious lover. In the text it says that the Dombeys have been married for 10 years, and Florence is said to be six years at the beginning of the novel, which would mean that Mrs. Dombey must have been unfaithful to her husband. Given the strict Victorian code of morals, I don't think that Dickens would have wanted to imply this about a character who is clearly to be sympathized with. Yet, the thought is interesting: Florence not being Dombey's daughter after all.
I especially like the way the narrator describes Dombey: He is not really a person at all but seems to be mainly represented, at least in the eyes of his intimidated daughter, by his clothes, esp. the shining buttons, and the watch.
This watch is another interesting thing, I'd even see it as a motif because it is the first thing Dombey uses to offer his son as a toy. As we can say that a watch stands for time, which might be seen as standing for the transitoriness of human endeavour, this does not augur well. Characteristically when the mother dies, all we hear is the combined ticking of the doctor and Mr. Dombey's watches.
I agree with you: The first four chapters really drew me into the novel, and now it takes quite a lot of mental power not to rush ahead of the group reads, which I will not do for otherwise I'll forget about the details.
Tristram wrote: " it takes quite a lot of mental power not to rush ahead of the group reads, which I will not do for otherwise I'll forget about the details. ..."I try very hard to keep to the schedule as well or else I'll not only forget the details but also what happened when & may unintentionally give out spoilers.
Oh....right....Florence is only 6 years old. I'd forgotten that. I don't think that Mrs. Dombey had the gumption or stamina for an affair, so Florence is truly a Dombey.
I thought that Dickens' joke on Dombey would be that he's so concerned with Mrs. Toodle swapping her child for his and him raising a son that is not his own, yet he didn't know he was raising a daughter that wasn't his own. I take that back now. Florence must be a Dombey. It's the only time-line that fits.
True....Dombey really isn't a person (yet). He's described through his buttons & shininess. Anything internal or "real" is missing.
The watch is interesting. It's popped up rather often...more than necessary or usual. It could be Dickens showing us that time passes and we've only got a short amount of it to set things right? Once it's gone, the things that are cannot be changed. (that's almost a bit anti-A Christmas Carol, isn't it?)
The watch that Mr. Dombey gives to Paul....I think it stands for 'regularity', order, doing things in its proper time, even intervals, etc. Mr. Dombey does everything properly the way 'it ought to be done', which is probably what it means to be a Dombey--- to do everything in an orderly fashion and as expected. IT was inconsiderate of Mrs. Dombey to die when she did. She should have put in effort to rally, that was her duty. That would have been orderly and expected.
This is the era just before efficiency became a fad (did any of you ever read Cheaper by the Dozen?)... mass production, identical products, the end of individual craftsmen. And the clock was slowly becoming the master of all in terms of a schedule life, times to be at work, times to go home... it was a time over endless workhours, little leisure, especially for manufacturers and for persons who work in manufacturing. Note that Gill and his business (he is a craftsman) is dying because what he is doing, crafting instruments carefully one by one, is a vanishing trade.
Dickens had a similar theme in his book Hard Times, where he hammered the cotton industry and its pollution as well as the monotony of sameness, efficiency, etc as squashers of individuality, love, creativity and meaningful existence.
Lene wrote: "When poor little Paul's mama is on her death bed, she is asked by Dombey's sister to exert a little more effort (or she will have to scold her severely ) Indeed, it is her duty to do so, ..."This is one of those places where I think Dickens shows his real skill in drawing out multiple emotions in a few phrases. Can anyone not feel enormous sympathy for Mrs. Dombey, who is clearly dying but is accused almost of giving up on purpose? Yet at the same time there is a strong note of humor in the scene which enables us, I think, to lighten the mood of what is really a quite tragic death scene as Mrs. Dombey dies in her daughter's arms.
Petra wrote: "Mr. Dombey is in a prison of aloofness. ...Whatever it is that holds him back, isn't necessary and could be changed with courage and faith. ."Or is what drives him the concept of what it means to be a man in his society? As I read these first chapters, what I see most strongly is a caricature of an upper class English husband. As with all caricatures, it is overdrawn for the purpose of emphasizing the true reality. This is who Mr. Dombey is supposed, shown taken to the extreme. Can one blame him for fulfilling the role society expected him to fulfill?
It is only the lower class Mr. Toodles who is permitted not to epitomize the stiff upper lip that society expects, even requires, of those who are to be rulers of the British Empire, which is at its height at this time in history.
Miss Tox Introduces "The Party"
Chapter 2
The Dombey Family
Chapter 3
Here's the same picture colored for some reason.
Everyman wrote: "Or is what drives him the concept of what it means to be a man in his society? As I read these first chapters, what I see most strongly is a caricature of an upper class English husband. As with all caricatures, it is overdrawn for the purpose of emphasizing the true reality. This is who Mr. Dombey is supposed, shown taken to the extreme. Can one blame him for fulfilling the role society expected him to fulfill? It is only the lower class Mr. Toodles who is permitted not to epitomize the stiff upper lip that society expects, even requires, of those who are to be rulers of the British Empire, which is at its height at this time in history.
..."
So true, Everyman!
It's still a rather sad situation, don't you think? These men, with their stiff upper lips, missed out on so much warmth and love. Their families, too, missed out on these. Without warmth and love from one's family, life becomes pretty dismal.
It's very sad to think about.
Kim, those are great illustrations. Thanks!
Petra wrote: "Kim, those are great illustrations. Thanks!" Thanks, your eyesight is better than mine if you can make heads or tails out of that frontispiece. :-}
I think that's one we'll understand more after we read the book. All I see are Florence and Paul surrounded by angels (their mom & ??). There's a lot of people surrounding them and some boats...and, sadly, some suffering (or sad) children. :(
Kim wrote: "Petra wrote: "Kim, those are great illustrations. Thanks!" Thanks, you're eye sight is better than mine if you can make heads or tails out of that frontispiece. :-}"
It's all the characters in the book, or at least most of them. But that scan isn't the clearest in the world.
Such a powerful and moving beginning to this novel! As mentioned, Dickens presents us with three worlds: the cold shade of business and convention found with Dombey; the rosy-cheeked energy and fecundity of the Toodles; the shared warmth and bonds found in the wooden Midshipman. Already Dickens has created links among these three district groups. The concept of Time and Change mentioned by Tristram have already been firmly established. Anno Domini ... Anno Dombei - and Son, the pocket watch twirling above Paul's little head. Time is presented in so many powerful and subtle ways in these first four chapters. Sounds and watches tick faster and faster and then there is a death. Time stops. The wooden Midshipman is a museum of time and measurement. Chronometers, barometers, telescopes, compasses, sextants, quadrants are all measurements of time, space, change and place. Dickens even is exact and precise of the reader's first meeting of Gill when he writes "It was half-past five o'clock and an autumn afternoon when the reader and Solomon Gill become acquainted."
Joy wrote: "Could it be that "having no heart to give" meant that she had experienced some deep pain, not necessarily of a romantic variety?I am still in chapter 1 though."
Yes. I read that line as saying Mrs. Dombey had been drained of all love and emotion by Mr. Dombey. While we are given no clear indication of Mrs. Dombey's past, we certainly do learn how heartless Dombey is in terms of human relationships. The firm is his love and even the much-appreciated birth of Paul seems more for the propagation of the firm of Dombey and Son than it was for the love and joy of having a child.
When Dickens describes the Dombey home it too is lifeless, bloodless and lacking any light. Like Dombey himself the house is described "as blank a house inside as outside." Is this not a description of Dombey himself? What woman would have any heart to give after being married to such a man and living in such a house?
Further the idea of Change in the novel mentioned by Tristram ... Sol Gill laments the lack of business in the Midshipman and we can see its contents as being timepieces of importance, but more so as implements of a time past. The new times are represented by Mr. Toodles. Not only does he have an ever expanding family (indeed he has more children than the Midshipman had customers in the past few weeks) but he works for the railway. He is a stoker on the railway and steam power is the way of the future. Sails versus steam. The past and the future. Time.I confess I love this novel ;>}
Dickens dedicated the novel to The Marchioness of Normanby and of course I am going to look and see who this person is. Here you go:The Marchioness of Normanby was Maria, daughter of Thomas Henry Lidell, 1st Baron Ravensworth, who married Constantine Henry Phipps, 1st Marquis of Normanby, in 1816. Dickens met them often during the writing of Dombey and Son in Paris, where the Marquis was British Ambassador.
One of the many things just knowing this got me wondering was what Dickens was doing in Paris while writing Dombey, so I looked and found that Dickens started writing the book while vacationing in Lausanne, Switzerland, before returning to England, via Paris, to complete it. Since I could find little information out about the Machioness, other than what I already said, I looked up her husband and found this:
He was known as a writer of romantic tales, The English in Italy (1825); in the same year he made his appearance as a novelist with Matilda, and in 1828 he produced another novel, Yes and No.
He succeeded his father as Earl of Mulgrave in 1831. He was sent out as Governor of Jamaica and was afterwards appointed Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (1835–1839). He was created Marquess of Normanby on 25 June 1838, and held successively the offices of colonial secretary and home secretary in the last years of Lord Melbourne's ministry. While Colonial Secretary, he wrote a letter of instructions to William Hobson, in which the government's policy for the sovereignty of New Zealand was set out.
From 1846 to 1852 he was ambassador at Paris, and from 1854 to 1858 minister at Florence. The publication in 1857 of a journal kept in Paris during the stormy times of 1848 (A Year of Revolution), brought him into violent controversy with Louis Blanc, and he came into conflict with Lord Palmerston and William Ewart Gladstone, after his retirement from the public service, on questions of French and Italian policy.
Lord Normanby married Maria Liddell, daughter of Thomas Liddell, 1st Baron Ravensworth, in 1818. He died in London on July 28 1863, aged 66, and was succeeded in his titles by his son George. The Marchioness of Normanby died in October 1882, aged 84.
I am often amazed at the men some of these Dickens women will actually marry. Quilp managed to find a wife for instance who for reasons beyond me seemed to actually care for him. Pecksniff had a wife at one time, now there is a Mrs. Dombey, or there was briefly, a woman willing to marry a man who thought that "a matrimonial alliance with himself must, in the nature of things, be gratifying and honourable to any woman of common sense."Yuk. Of course maybe I'm just not a woman of common sense.
There's this in chapter 1:"But what was a girl to Dombey and Son! In the capital of the House's name and dignity, such a child was merely a piece of base coin that couldn't be invested—a bad Boy—nothing more."
Now I happen to know that this is wrong because as my mother used to tell me when I was little, boys are made of "snakes and snails and puppy dog tails" where as girls are made of "sugar and spice and everything nice", so obviously girls are better than boys. Just look at the grumpiness in this group. :-}
Now I got wondering if this was a poem my mother made up or if it was an actual printed poem, so I looked it up:"What Are Little Boys Made Of?" is a popular nursery rhyme dating from the early 19th century. The song is nowadays thought to be sexist against both girls and boys.
Here is a representative modern version of the lyrics:
What are little boys made of?
What are little boys made of?
Snips and snails
And puppy-dogs' tails
That's what little boys are made of.
What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
Sugar and spice
And everything nice,
That's what little girls are made of.
The rhyme appears in many variant forms. For example, other versions may describe boys as being made of "frogs", "snakes", or "slugs", rather than "snips" as above.
Whatever word you use, girls are better. :-}
I could also wonder at why Quilp found a woman who would marry him - clearly a fault in the novel, one of the many things Dickens even did not stop to consider the bizarreness of - but then I find myself a married man, too - and my wife is an adornment to her sex.As to Dombey's wife, I read the hint as referring to a former love on Mrs. Dombey's part whose unhappy ending made her so broken-hearted and dispirited that she stopped caring for whatever happened to her, and that is why she gave her hand to the unfeeling and haughty Mr. Dombey. Probobly there was also pressure by her family not to miss this chance of marrying wealth and respectability.
Peter,Time and Change seem to be at the heart of the novel. I like your contrast of Toodle as someone who works for the railway and represents the modern age, and Solomon, who says of himself that the world has become strange and unintelligible to him. Dombey seems to embody aspects of both of these worlds: On the one hand, as a merchant he has to keep up with the times in order to outwit his competitors, but on the other hand he has adopted the bearing of an aristocrat, i.e. he does not want to get too close to those who keep the wheels running, like Mr. Toodle does.
I also agree with your point, Lene, that the watch stands for efficiency, and the time-is-money way of life. This utilitarian way of thinkg is also in line with Mr. Dombey regretting his wife's death with a view to her capacity of feeding his son.
Kim wrote: "Whatever word you use, girls are better. :-}"I don't know about that, Kim. But since there are more girls than boys, and fewer males than females in the world's population, it follows that girls and women are a lot commoner ;-)
Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "Whatever word you use, girls are better. :-}"I don't know about that, Kim. But since there are more girls than boys, and fewer males than females in the world's population, it follows..."
I'm just going by the wisdom of whoever wrote the nursery rhyme in the first place. :-}
Peter wrote: "JWhile we are given no clear indication of Mrs. Dombey's past, we certainly do learn how heartless Dombey is in terms of human relationships."I'm not sure heartless is the right term. Heartless implies some deliberation. It seems to me that Dombey wants to be fond of people but just doesn't know how. Which given the way men were brought up in that era isn't all that surprising. He is more clueless about human interactions, which to me is more neutral and not as negative as heartless seems.
Kim wrote: "Kim | 1130 comments I am often amazed at the men some of these Dickens women will actually marry."They had to marry unless they wanted to go into service or starve, both less desirable outcomes than marriage even to a Dombey. And it's not clear that Mrs. Dombey was any better a wife than Dombey was a husband.
Everyman wrote: "Kim wrote: "Kim | 1130 comments I am often amazed at the men some of these Dickens women will actually marry."They had to marry unless they wanted to go into service or starve, both less desirabl..."
True. I didn't think of it that way. They would have had to marry someone, and also true, I have no idea what kind of wife Mrs. Dombey was. Hmm. I have to go think about that one.
I would concur that Dombey is not heartless. He is a gentleman, an upper class person, who somehow 'does his duty', and that involves putting a lid on emotions to some extent, or at least not displaying them inappropriately. I wonder if our admiration for the warmth of the Toodles would have been shared by Dickens' readers of the time.
Lene and EverymanFor now I'll stick with heartless. He is not the first generation of Dombey and Son, and no doubt he certainly did not enjoy a Toodleish childhood. If environment does play a part in one's upbringing he may well be modelling the behaviour that he himself witnesses and was subjected to in his early life.
I wonder, however, if he has no idea how to act towards Florence, sees her as rather useless child because she is not a male or has, over time, maintained his distance from her. It seems to me that the way their first interactions occur that Florence has certainly learned to be quiet, keep out of her father's way and she knows, at her tender age, that if she had little chance to gain her father's attention and love before the birth of Paul, with his birth even her faintest hopes have faded away.
She is a female child within a family of commerce that has a male heir. The watch that Dombey dangles for Paul's amusement is probably done longer than the time her father has spent with her demonstrating any spontaneous love and attention.
Time will tell whether Florence's father will find his heart and be finally willing to give it to her.
We have some evidence of Dombey evincing emotions but checking himself and nipping them in the bud with a view to propriety. However, the instances nearly always have something to do with his son, and never with Florence or his wife.So while he is capable of feeling, these feelings are linked with his pride in his family and his enterprise, and therefore I would call Dombey "narrow-hearted", borrowing a word from German and translating it literally into English - which would mean not capable of emotion to a very generous degree. It all seems to be a matter of his notion of "Dombey and Son" in a way.
The first paragraph immediately had me chuckling at Dickens' humor and use of language, I had to read it aloud to my husband - the thought of baby Dombey resembling a muffin that needed to be warmed and toasted by the fire. :) I also liked the comparisons of father Dombey to baby Dombey - in age as father was "about eight-and-forty years" and baby was "about eight-and-forty minutes", and in appearance, both being "rather bald, rather red" or "very bald, and very red". And I absolutely loved the the way Time had its way with father and son, with opposite effects: On the brow of Dombey, Time and his brother Care had set some marks, as on a tree that was to come down in good time.......while the countenance of Son was crosssed and recrossed with a thousand little creases, which the same deceitful Time would take delight in smoothing out and wearing away with the flat part of his scythe, as in preparation of the surface for his deeper operations.
So far I am very much taken in with the story and various characters, and have loved many passages, too many to recite here.
I like all the references to Time, as mentioned in previous posts here. I didn't realize there were so many until it was pointed out.
Without getting to even know the characters of Florence or Mrs. Dombey very well, being the very beginning of the novel, I was very teary during the mother's death scene, with her dear daughter hanging on. For such strong emotions to be stirred using characters we have barely been introduced to, Dickens does an excellent job of pulling those feelings out of the reader.
I was also struck with the passage that Tristam pointed out, where Dombey reflects on his poor situation compared to that of someone perhaps more undeserving (in his mind) since he "works underground" and is not at the same level of society as he is himself:
It may have been characteristic of Mr Dombey's pride, that he pitied himself through the child. Not poor me. Not poor widower, confiding by constraint in the wife of an ignorant Hind who has been working 'mostly underground' all his life, and yet at whose door Death had never knocked, and at whose poor table four sons daily sit—but poor little fellow!"
Loved the companionship and discussions between Solomen Gills and Walter of what was and what could be. There is a sense of friendship and between uncle and nephew, and Sol is able to confide in Walter in what he wishes for his future, and tells him why he thinks this way. This is in contrast to Dombey who never seems to voice his opinions, but simply does what he thinks should be done, at least this is how it seems to be so far.
As Petra said, it seems that Walter and Florence clearly are expected to match up, and it seems Sol and Captain Cuttle are looking towards Walters hopeful future already of marrying daughter, if only the Dombey son were not in the picture. I was surprised they were thinking this way after Walter being on the job all of one day?!
Finally, I chuckled at the title of Chapter IV, having just finished reading Don Quixote, the chapter heading seemed it was taken directly from Cervantes - In which some more First Appearances are made on the Stage of these Adventures.
Tristram wrote: "We have some evidence of Dombey evincing emotions but checking himself and nipping them in the bud with a view to propriety. However, the instances nearly always have something to do with his son, and never with Florence or his wife. ..."I would have to go back to confirm this but I think he did show some emotion towards Florence.
When Florence first gets to spend time with Paul, Mrs. Richards insists that Florence say good-bye to her father as she goes to bed. At that point, Dombey wanted to reach out, I'm sure, but he held himself back and the moment passed. I think that he was, at that moment, controlled by a form of jealousy. He recalled Florence's grief at her mother's death and took some sort of umbrage in that she hadn't shown him more concern at that moment. It was a selfish, jealous thought to have towards a small child.
I think Dombey is holding back his emotions a lot. I feel sad for him right now (that could change as the story continues).
I read somewhere although at the moment I can't put my hand on whatever book I read it in, that Dickens was criticized for the coldness of Mr. Dombey in the first few chapters. Dickens, however, had been forced to cut chapters 1 to 3 severely because he had overwritten the first monthly serial. Supposedly in the cancelled portions Dombey's emotional struggle is made more evident. What I can't remember, other than how I know this in the first place, is if these omitted parts are forever gone or if they are back in the book and we are reading them now.
Tristram wrote: "therefore I would call Dombey "narrow-hearted", borrowing a word from German and translating it literally into English..."I was just wondering if the German word is at least 18 or 19 letters long, they usually are when you use them.
Peter wrote: "Such a powerful and moving beginning to this novel! As mentioned, Dickens presents us with three worlds: the cold shade of business and convention found with Dombey; the rosy-cheeked energy and fe..."I am in complete agreement with you on the beginnings of this novel being "powerful and moving." Dickens does not hold back with the depth of content, by means of duality in syntax, already in this first chapter. From their ages to their countenance, the descriptions were quite interesting.
I also thought the positions of the two in relation to one another in the room was interesting...Dombey sat in the corner of the darkened room away from the fire, while his Son sat in front of the fire and close to it. In the beginning we can already infer as to what type of life/station the Son will have (Front and Center) in relation to his father (the power behind the scenes) with these parallels described between the two.
In an early passage, I found Dombey to be sitting back reveling in the birth of his son, while his son sitting in front of the fire had his fists curled up and clenched, ..., to be squaring at existence for having come on him so unexpectedly. This image of clenched fists fighting and feebly at that, leads me to believe an up-hill battle is on the brink for the Son...Maybe?
Ami wrote: "Peter wrote: "Such a powerful and moving beginning to this novel! As mentioned, Dickens presents us with three worlds: the cold shade of business and convention found with Dombey; the rosy-cheeked..."Good insightful comments here. Dickens's use of contrast is certainly clear and done with a deft hand. it will be interesting to see how Dickens builds upon his initial comments.
Tristram wrote: "We have some evidence of Dombey evincing emotions but checking himself and nipping them in the bud with a view to propriety. However, the instances nearly always have something to do with his son, ..."Tristram
What is the German word for "narrow-hearted?" I've always enjoyed the word Bildingsroman as a literary descriptive word and now perhaps I can add another word to my vocabulary. Next I'll use it to resolve the Dombey heart discussion above. ;>}
Petra wrote: "I think Dombey is holding back his emotions a lot. I feel sad for him right now (that could change as the story continues). ."I'm pretty much in the same position, except that my sadness for him is tempered by deep disappointment that he can't be the adult in the situation and come through for his now motherless daughter.
Wouldn't the "stiff upper lip" mentality & upbringing stop that ability, Everyman? I imagine that being brought up to keep emotions bottled up would stop the adult from being able to come through in times of need. That's what therapy was invented for, right? :D
re:our discussion about the personality and traits of Mr. Dombey.There is something of the stoic in him. He was raised (one presumes) to be a gentleman, that is, to be in a position of leadership in society, in his company -- to be among the British elite. As such, composure was important, and in some ways we cannot discount that it still is. Who wants to be lead by a person who falls apart every time his emotions get the better of him? Dombey was raised to be visible to all, and to set an example of how one 'ought' to behave (no doubt by exerting effort, as his amiable sister likes to emphasize). That being said, it seems that Dickens is criticizing those traits when they enter the private sphere.
Dickens shows the easy, open relationship between Sol and Walter as the 'ideal' natural way that all families more or less ought to be when persons love each other. His indictment of Dombey, in contrast, is strong, and Dombey is his own doom in terms of his relationship with his daughter, which ironically seems to me to be likely to be the larger motiff of the novel (and a mocking commentary to the title of the novel).
No better place do we see Mr. Dombey's sense of privilege and elevated exemplary status in society than in his dealings with Richards and her husband. He has business to conduct with her. He renames her as a term of her employment, and his chosen name is ordinary and perfectly reflects how he feels about her -- she is just one of the crowd that he by necessity needs to engage with, but not in any way a person he considers his equal, nor a person he wants to associate with more than absolutely necessary for the task she has been engaged to undertake.
We can be hard on him, or we can recognize that he is a product of his upbringing, a stiff, pretentious person whose innner struggles are severe, but which are not allowed to reach the surface, and as such, he is doing as well as he can. To ask him to be more loving towards Florence or to show more emotion, is probably beyond him because he likely has not seen it modeled in his own upbringing, and likely if he were to unleash his emotions a little bit, he would not be able to control the flood that would bust forth from him.
Lene wrote: "re:our discussion about the personality and traits of Mr. Dombey.There is something of the stoic in him. He was raised (one presumes) to be a gentleman, that is, to be in a position of leadership..."
Lene
Good arguments and I certainly agree with you that a large part of who Dombey is now comes as a result of his upbringing. While we don't get a vast amount of backstory, Dombey has certainly learned how business works, and appears to have been a very good student on the dollars and cents side of the ledger. The constant and ever-present language and imagery of cold that follows Dombey is a projection of his personality and presence in all settings.
Lene wrote: "Dickens shows the easy, open relationship between Sol and Walter as the 'ideal' natural way that all families more or less ought to be when persons love each other."Well, ideal to us. Whether readers at the time would view it positively or negatively I don't know. (After all, in this day and age we tend to criticize parents who are too close to their children; helicopter parents, tiger moms, and the like, for example, are I think generally considered negative sterotypes.)
Lene wrote: "re:our discussion about the personality and traits of Mr. Dombey.There is something of the stoic in him. He was raised (one presumes) to be a gentleman, that is, to be in a position of leadership..."
I read once that George Gissing thought Mr. Dombey to be a failure. He felt that Dombey seemed more of an actor than a human being. He goes on to say of Dombey:
"The fact of the matter is that Dickens fails in certain of his upper-class portraitures not, first and foremost, because that class is unfamiliar to his imagination, but rather because he had chosen types of character which his art finds uncongenial."
Kim,That is an interesting point of view.
I always thought that Dickens was incapable of portraying his favorite women for the same reason. Look at his mother figure in David Copperfield (this willowy whispy faint, transparent weak-willed idealized mother-love) or Lucy in Tale of Two Cities or Agnes in David Copperfield (by far the least interesting of his characters are these perfect wives and mothers who do absolutely nothing but smile and love passively by holding a child on their laps). OK, I am exaggerating his ideal women, but I much perfer his imperfect women, like Peggoty or the ghastly aunt Miss Barbary, who raised Esther in Bleak house. Likewise, his villains are so much more juicy and delectable ... think of Uriah Heap (spelling? is it Heep), Fagin the Jew, Quelp, and Mr Guppey from Bleak House ... you writhe with discomfort when they show up, but you love to be repulsed by them.
Well... I got carried away :) Sorry. I have a love for Dickens villains.
Thank you for all your contributions so far! Maybe they show that Dombey and Son is by far a deeper and more complex novel than those we have read so far, and that Dickens had by that time reached the level of perfection in his art for which he is remembered.I'm taking up Kim and Lene's last-made point first, expressing my full agreement to Lene's love for the Dickens villains and most of his grotesque characters. I'd also like to add that an Estella is worth a dozen Little Nells, as far as her literary value is concerned. However, I would not agree with Gissing in his thought that Dombey is a failure. Maybe even the fact (mentioned some posts before by Kim) that Dickens had to shorten his MS and had crossed out some passages referring to Dombey's inner struggles, was even better for the novel and its presentation of the cold and aloof father figure: We get enough glimpses into Mr. Dombey's personality as to realize that his gross neglect of his daughter and his distanced behaviour to those around him do not spring from Quilpish malevolence but from dysfunctional notions about himself and his role as a father. The narrator's reifying presentation of Dombey - who seems to completely recede behind his boots, his buttons and his watch, and who sits in darkness - is infinitely more efficient in giving us an idea of his emotional coldness and of making us wonder why he is the way he is, than a narrative based on giving detailed inside view into Mr. Dombey's thoughts and feelings. The instrumentalization of himself and others, as well as the fact that this kind of thinking is running in the family, is also made clear in the sentence,
"He had risen, as his father had before him, in the course of life and death, from Son to Dombey ..."
Everyman wrote: "Lene wrote: "Dickens shows the easy, open relationship between Sol and Walter as the 'ideal' natural way that all families more or less ought to be when persons love each other."Well, ideal to us..."
Granted, Everyman! Although, on the whole, I don't think that helicopter parents are necessarily very close to their children. They just want to satisfy their own ambitions, and maybe unfulfilled dreams, through their children. Thus, in a way, they are instrumentalizing their children just as Dombey does instrumentalize his son. I don't know what a "tiger mom" is; maybe the English word for "Eiskunstlaufmutter" (lit. "ice skating mom"), i.e. a mother that always demands excellent sports and academic performances from her children? In German, we also have "Latte-macchiato mothers", i.e. mothers who have well-to-do husbands and lead stylish lives, showing their babies, and the babies' equipment and clothes, off all about town. You can see them, if you really want to, in cafés, or rather at Starbuck's.
Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "We have some evidence of Dombey evincing emotions but checking himself and nipping them in the bud with a view to propriety. However, the instances nearly always have something to ..."The German word would be "engherzig", a surprisingly short word with few letters.
we have embarked on the enterprise of reading Dickens's seventh novel, of which he himself said that if any of his writings were to remain in later days and times, it would surely be Dombey and Son. Well, I think Dickens said that before he had written Bleak House but that's neither here nor there.
The first four chapters of Dombey and Son basically introduce us into three different family circles, i.e. the Dombey household, which is characterized by a rigid and distanced father, who is uneasy about showing any devotion to his wife, and children; the Toodle family, who seems to be the exact opposite of the Dombeys, and Solomon Gills and his nephew Walter, whose relationship is characterized by the most lively affection and care.
It's interesting to see how Dickens establishes links and contrasts between the families. Compare for example Mr. Dombey's remarkable fortitude in dealing with his wife's death with this passage:
"'You have a son, I believe?' said Mr Dombey.
'Four on 'em, Sir. Four hims and a her. All alive!'
'Why, it's as much as you can afford to keep them!' said Mr Dombey.
'I couldn't hardly afford but one thing in the world less, Sir.'
'What is that?'
'To lose 'em, Sir.'" (Ch.2)
Or the following lines, in which we see Mr. Dombey contemplating the vicissitudes of life:
"It would be harsh, and perhaps not altogether true, to say of him that he felt these rubs and gratings against his pride more keenly than he had felt his wife's death: but certainly they impressed that event upon him with new force, and communicated to it added weight and bitterness. It was a rude shock to his sense of property in his child, that these people—the mere dust of the earth, as he thought them—should be necessary to him; and it was natural that in proportion as he felt disturbed by it, he should deplore the occurrence which had made them so. For all his starched, impenetrable dignity and composure, he wiped blinding tears from his eyes as he paced up and down his room; and often said, with an emotion of which he would not, for the world, have had a witness, 'Poor little fellow!'
It may have been characteristic of Mr Dombey's pride, that he pitied himself through the child. Not poor me. Not poor widower, confiding by constraint in the wife of an ignorant Hind who has been working 'mostly underground' all his life, and yet at whose door Death had never knocked, and at whose poor table four sons daily sit—but poor little fellow!"
It might be interesting to find further of these passages and discuss them here.
Apart from that the narrator establishes a number of motifs, among which Time and Change seem to be playing a major role.
Up to now this seems to be a very promising, and carefully planned novel :-)