The Picture of Dorian Gray question

1. I don't think Basil was at all at fault here--he just painted the painting. He had no idea what it would become, and had no way to know that it would become what it did. Dorian was definitely more at fault than Basil was, because in the end, he was the one that destroyed his own soul, he had the choice to not behave the way he did, etc, BUT I think the most blame lies in Lord Henry, who manipulated Dorian & coerced him into believing hedonism was the way to go. Like. Dorian was a kid, and a sheltered one at that. Lord Henry knew what he was doing; Dorian didn't have a clue until he was at the point where he no longer cared.

2. I don't think Basil did & for my reasoning see the answer above! As for Dorian, while I would've liked to see him live/have a redemption arc, Wilde seems to argue throughout that corruption of the soul is irreversible, & any attempt at redemption would nullify his argument.

3. Oh yeah definitely. He sees little to no consequences, and I wish he had.

4. I'm in the process of rereading/annotating/doing some analysis of the book, but I haven't gotten to this part yet and so I don't have a clear opinion on this yet. That Dorian knew his soul resided in the painting, coupled with the pervasive guilt he feels throughout, has me leaning more toward suicide though.

5. I love it. It's dramatic, it's classy, & the characters are a little ridiculous. I love the imagery & dualities Wilde brings into this novel. It's so decadent & excessive & I love it.

Hi Gabi! I finished this book about a week ago and I also really liked it, although not the easiest and quickest read for me. But here's my thoughts on it.

1. I dont think Basil had any fault for having painted the picture, in truth I'd like to say that Lord Henry's influences were to blame however that also seems like a total cop out. While it didnt help, Dorian I believe was always going to be vain and selfish, and in the end hes responsible for his own down fall. Although Henry might have not been the best friend to have.

2. Dorian definitely, Basil however deserved better. He was simple to naive when it came to Dorian.

3. While he has horrible ideals and says things carelessly, at the end hes not entirely wrong all the time, and hes not responsible for others actions, so I didnt expect him to get what he deserves, although i wish he'd learned the truth at least.

4. I think that in some part of his conscious mind he knew that stabbing the painting would kill him, because he knew that the painting housed his dark soul and the body cant live without the soul. Plus I feel like he kind of wanted to die already, to repent that way.

1. I don't think finding faults is a good way to understand the characters. The characters are unique. Basil, with his obsession with art and beauty, is a talented and insecure artist who finds his conception of beauty in Dorian Gray. It is almost ethereal how he speaks of Dorian and praises him. I would also say that he is a bit selfish towards his art, that he doesn't want any destructive influence on Dorian, as it would readily reflect in his art.
I won't blame Lord Henry partly because he knows how he is and did not cause any bad influence on Basil Halward. As I see it, it Lord Henry should have had an influence on Basil but didn't, although Basil knew that Henry's influence is bad.
Lord Henry was just curious about the character of Dorian and wanted to experiment with his often contradicting philosophies.
Dorian was a pure and innocent, but naive young man who could have escaped Lord Henry's influence but didn't.
I'd like to see the story as a set of fascinating and unprecedented events occurring to almost surreal characters.

1. I think that Dorian & Lord Henry are equally-ish to blame. Yes, Lord Henry corrupted him, but Dorian easily gave in to the corruption. I think that this is because Dorian values aesthetic over all else, to the detriment of morality-- but I'm not 100% sure about that.
2. Basil was just in gay love with Dorian and deserved nothing!
3. Yes, but I kind of like that Lord Henry got off easy. I think that, if not realistic, it aligns with the book's message.
5. I liked the book a lot! It was incredibly beautiful all the time.

1) All three of them have responsibility. Lord Henry for his determined manipulation and experimentation of Dorian and his life.
Basil and his conviction that all art is good. There are parameters. One cannot put constraints on the artist and their chosen expressions but the artist must realise that beauty exists in parameters. History is wrought with examples of people, who to themselves thought they were in rightstanding and yet, millions upon millions were killed. Beauty does not exist as an independent, self-justifying category where one can emulate, express any thing we think is beautiful. Basil realised that too late, and paid a price too.
Dorian, naïve and young at first, even he has a level of responsibility. I can understand why he continued on his path. He could not get of the monster he was riding on, for fear that it would eat him up. He was naïve in not listening to Basil's warning him of Henry, naïve because he clearly did not expect that he would become such a pitiful person. Yet, he had his doubts, his fears, his pure-heartedness and he made choices. You always have the choice but you don't have the privilege of always seeing all the consequences bound into your choice.

2) I cannot say if they did. They bore the consequences of their actions and convictions but let me not be the judge. I am a flawed person and I am deciding not to judge them. Simply, they bore the consequences of their choices.

3) Maybe in this book yet in real life it remains that you get what you gave. Dorians and Basils might not see the demise of their Henrys in their life, whether they die early or the Henrys moved out of their lives, everyone gets their share of what they sowed into other people's lives.

4) Dorian tried to rid himself of guilt by stabbing the painting and yet, he ended up commiting suicide.

5) I think this is a brilliant book. Some wonderdul lessons in there.

Gabi wrote: "I just finished The Picture of Dorian Gray and I am BLOWN AWAY by how intensely classy this classic was. I don't know what to think, I'm still in awe, but I need to discuss this with someone! I ha..."

Isn't it just marvellous!
Tenuously in relation to your 4th question...
When I originally read TPDG, I honestly found it to be a very moralistic novel (horrifically ironic, considering Wilde's own downfall because of the book)- almost a warning - where ultimately, evil has its comeuppance.
However, I then realised that this is actually not really true; take Lord Henry, for example - it is implied that he ends up just fine.
Thus, I now believe that it wasn't Dorian's sins that killed him, but his inability to be amoral. For that is the difference between Dorian and (what we see of) Lord Henry - Henry is amoral, whereas, Dorian fatally has a conscience. I don't believe he was trying to destroy the painting to destroy his sins (which the painting illustrated), but to destroy his conscience (and the guilt the painting made him feel).

1. I think Lord Henry was at fault for corrupting Dorian and encouraging him to be hedonistic. Dorian was very impressionable

2. Basil definitely not, he was a very sad character and was brought down by a genuine love. Dorian, I am not so sure - he suggested that he was trying to change but its to be seen whether he actually could

3. Lord Henry definitely had it easy getting off scot-free although I would like to think the Dorian's death caused him at least some level of guilt

4. It didn't come across as suicide. He thought if the painting was destroyed he would be able to take responsibility in his life.

5. I liked this book but its not one of my all time favourites.

1. Lord Henry
2. yes
3 yes
4. Just trying to destroy the painting
5. LOVED IT

Thank you sososo much for this discussion. I just finished this book!

1) Difficult to answer, but I would agree with the other readers and say that it is mainly Lord Henry's fault.
I think it is quite interesting that Basil tried to keep Henry from meeting Dorian in the beginning already. He somehow sensed that Henry would definitely have a bad influence on Dorian. But given the fact that Henry obviously is just a big jerk (sorry, couldn't describe it any differently), it is quite understandable that Basil behaved that way.
Though Henry actively shaped Dorian's character during his last years of boyhood, Henry couldn't imagine the horrible things Dorian actually did or at least he denied it. This means that Dorian has voluntarily gone a lot further than Henry has suggested.

2) Basil not at all. He sure was blinded by his romantic feelings towards Dorian but he did not deserve to be cruelly murdered. He was too self-reflected and good-natured for that.
When it comes to Dorian, it is again very difficult to assess. It seemed like he actually wanted to change for the better in the end. That however changed when he was thinking about his sin (in this case: murdering Basil) and came to realize how indifferent it was to him. I think there was no other way for Dorian. His sins fuelled the decadence of his soul, leading to a change in his portrait. This change in his portrait again fuelled his hatred towards Basil and all the good he represents. After having murdered Basil, there was no way out of his misery anymore.

3) Yes, but I feel like his immoral actions were pretty much harmless compared to what Dorian did. If he was to be imprisoned, then so would probably half Britain. Society at that time was probably 50% all Lord Henrys.

4) Interesting! But I'd say that he actually stabbed the picture and his death was a fancy and mysterious spiritual consequence of that. Don't know how to verbalize it otherwise.

5) I loved the book. Actually wrote a review about it just a few minutes ago. I would love to know what your favorite character is!