Chapters IX through XVIII

[Paige]

Kerstin wrote: "Marcela is put into a negative light right from the beginning. Neither the goat herders nor the village in general think her behavior appropriate given her status. She gets called "that devil of a village girl." That's pretty damaging. "

She's not called that in my translation (Grossman). They do call her "finicky." But they also talk about her virtue. After they read out the song Grisostomo wrote at the funueral, the person who read it provides commentary that he doesn't think it conforms to accounts of Marcela's modesty and virtue, and another friend says that the reason for that is that Grisostomo wasn't in Marcela's presence when it was written and that her "reputation for virtue remains unshaken." They call her cruel and arrogant, but that's because they can't have her; it's sour grapes. Killing yourself and blaming it on someone else is cruel and arrogant and straight up abusive. So there's that.

Kerstin wrote: "The person entering the religious life does so out of his/her free will, and you have years of personal discernment before making final vows."

I think that's true today. This isn't my area of expertise, but from my reading it has seemed that historically, while many women did opt for it themselves, a lot of women didn't go to convents out of their free will. They were given to convents as children or teens, or their families wanted them to go there so as not to pay high costs for marriage. They may have done the discernment necessary to take vows, but from what I've read before it sounded an awful like lot constrained choices, as most choices for women were.

[Paige]

Rhonda wrote: "Paige wrote: "This post was fascinating, thank you! I would be interested in reading more of your explanation."

This is part 2 and I apologize for it being long. I research and write these things ..."

Thank you for this, the point about the Marcela saga being about our desires is compelling to me, as is Bryan's comment below yours that everyone has a need to look away from reality.

[Kerstin]

Paige wrote: "Kerstin wrote: She gets called "that devil of a village girl." That's pretty damaging. "

She's not called that in my translation (Grossman). They do call her "finicky."

Interesting!
Both the (freebe) Ormsby translation and the German text I'm primarily reading call her that. If anything, the German is even stronger, Marcela is called the "devil's daughter." No wonder I reacted so strongly to her, LOL! ...Now I'm curios what is in the original.

[Thomas]

Kerstin wrote: "Paige wrote: "Kerstin wrote: She gets called "that devil of a village girl." That's pretty damaging. "

She's not called that in my translation (Grossman). They do call her "finicky."

Interesting..."

The original is melindrosa. It looks like "finicky" is a close translation. Other possibilities might be (according to my Spanish dictionary) "Prudish, precise, finical, too nice, too formal, fastidious, dainty, very particular."

So far Cervantes has used this word to describe two other figures: Amadis of Gaul, and Aldonza Lorenzo (in a privative sense):

Y lo mejor que tiene es que no es nada melindrosa, porque tiene mucho de cortesana: con todos se burla y de todo hace mueca y donaire.

Grossman translates: "And the best thing about her is that she's not a prude. In fact, she's something of a trollop; she jokes with everybody and laughs and makes fun of everything."

At the beginning of Chapter 12 Marcela is called endiablada moza. I guess that's what Ormsby is translating as "devil's daughter," but I like Grossman's "accursed girl" better. My dictionary has for endiablado: "devilish, diabolical, ugly, deformed, wicked, perverse." An obsolete meaning of the verb endiablar (and we might be dealing with an obsolete meaning here) is "to possess with the devil," which makes Grossman's translation "accursed" seem appropriate.

But as Paige says, these sentiments are by and large sour grapes. Far from being accursed, she is the most desirable woman around, in part because she is unattainable. The only woman more unattainable than Marcela is Dulcinea, and that's because she doesn't exist.

[Rafael]

"endiablada moza" could be translated as "naughty girl" (in a non sexual sense) as someone that seems possessed by the devil, in a non literal meaning, as a naughty kid. But your translation could be right as meaning "accursed".

[Thomas]

Rafael wrote: ""endiablada moza" could be translated as "naughty girl" (in a non sexual sense) as someone that seems possessed by the devil, in a non literal meaning, as a naughty kid. But your translation could ..."

Thanks Rafael. "Naughty girl" in that sense fits as well, coming from the point of view of the village men.

[Kerstin]

Thanks, Thomas and Rafael!

[Paige]

Thomas wrote: "Kerstin wrote: "Paige wrote: "Kerstin wrote: She gets called "that devil of a village girl." That's pretty damaging. "

She's not called that in my translation (Grossman). They do call her "finicky..."

Thanks for chiming in, this is interesting. "Accursed" to me has more of a tinge of something pitiable about it; something that is cursed itself, bad luck, but it can't help it because things don't put curses on themselves, they can't really help it. Then again, I guess "devil's daughter" is kind of passive too--no one controls who they are born to, but I guess "sins of the father" might apply.