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This Is How It Always Is
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This is How it Always Is - Laurie Frankel (MOD Takeover BOM) - 22 July 2019
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At NRBC we use a more structured approach to our BOMs. We have a discussion leader and a reading date is set to start the book. A reading schedule is posted prior to the start date and discussion questions are posted each day regarding that section of the book.
More info under spoiler
(view spoiler)
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Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief
(last edited Jul 25, 2019 05:40AM)
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rated it 3 stars
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Date Chapters %age MPDQs
22 July start - Halloween 22% Snowtulip
23 July Maybe - Rival Neighbor 43% Judith
Princess
24 July Everyone Who? - Hedge 65% Cat
Enemies
25 July Who Knows? - Aid 78% Cathy M
Ambiguous
26 July Novice - end 100% Sunny
======
There were 9 items in your list. Here they are in random order:
Snowtulip - Silver
Judith - Yellow
Cat - Brown
Sunny - White (last day only please)
Cathy M - Red
Jenny - Purple
Karen - Gold
Annalisa - Pink
Suzanne - Green
Timestamp: 2019-07-20 09:54:28 UTC
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Book of the Month
~ Ruby Coin How to Earn:
1 Ruby Coin for half DQ participation 1 Ruby Coin for Writing Disscussion Questions 1 Ruby Coin for completing ALL days DQs within month of BOM startExample of ways to Earn Ruby Coins: (view spoiler)
Learn about Gem coins here
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Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief
(last edited Jul 20, 2019 02:54AM)
(new)
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rated it 3 stars
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Volunteers
Cat - Brown
Sunny - White (last day only please)
Jenny - Purple
Suzanne - Green
Karen - Gold
Cathy M - Red
Annalisa - Pink
Judith - Yellow
Snowtulip - Silver
=====
Christina - Purple
Laura - White
Marie - Brown
Lexi - Pink
Mod
Mod
Can do DQs for White Fang but only for the last day. :)
Volunteering for DQs for team Purple.Thanks Cat. teehee.
I'm so excited this book has been chosen, I really wanted to read it anyway!! <3Please sign me up as back-up for The Color Purple!
I'm in for back up for White Fang
I'm in for Anne of Green Gables - would prefer the first 3 days of the week if possible.
Mod
I'll volunter for DQs - team Red Dirt Heart.
Mod
Not sure I should volunteer for DQ haha - my book is scheduled to arrive on the 22nd so I may already start with a delay ;-)
I’ll volunteer for DQ team Pink Rabbit.
Mod
I'll be back up for Annalisa for DQs (Team Pink).
Volunteering for The Silver Pigs :)
That date works for me!
I'm good with my day!
Day 1: Start - Halloween1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
Mod
1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
Not really, but I had hopes of them being supportive of his choices. I have an acquaintance from grad school with a son who wears dresses all the time and getting ready to go into kindergarten, this reminds me of their situation. Down to the gaggle of brothers. The amount of flack they get for letting him wear what he wants is appalling.
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
My heart broke. It's on the unhealthy side, but something I completely understand. Though part of me thinks the pressure a daughter would of felt could of been crippling.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
The best you can do with 5 kids and they are lucky Penn can stay home and not have to work a 9 to 5. Seriously you pick the hill you want to die on and honestly I think a lot of parents pick the wrong hill. Or too many hills. Their kids seem relatively happy, though there are concerns with Ben & Claude but they are monitoring those situations. And they are letting their kids be themselves, that can be harder to do than it sounds.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Letting him where what he wants in public would be better. Denial is a powerful poison and so is self-loathing, I get their reasoning but if they aren't careful Claude could end up in a dark place.
The friend I mentioned in my first answer posted a conversation her son had with a little girl his age.
Girl: Why are you wearing girl clothes
Son: I'm not wearing girl clothes
Girl: Yes you are, you are wearing a dress
Son: No that doesn't make it girl clothes, I picked this out myself from Costco. Clothes are for everyone. [my emphasis]
Girl: Oh, maybe I'll ask my mom to take me shopping at Costco
Son: It's a fun place to shop
*They go off and play together*
I think we need to remember things are only a big deal when people make them that way.
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
This is so scary as a parent. Get a family therapist and work hard to be as supportive as they can. I can't imagine knowing their child feels like that as a kindergartner. Utterly terrifying
Day 1: Start - Halloween1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
None. I read the synopsis, and then forgot about it.
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
I get, in a weird way, how she wanted to let her little sister get another chance at life. As a scientist, she knows that isn't possible, but the draw would be big. Also, that's a lt of boys to have around the house.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
I like it. It sees to be a house full of love, and the parenting and basic living together bits they share well. I love the sharing homework time around the table.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Leaving aside the few bullies that always exist, and always will, I think we are a couple of generations away from a child being accepted as different, especially sexually different in school. Although, if the school faculty was accepting, it might go smoothly. Teach by example. I do not envy the family the choice they have to make. How the hell do you know if you are making the right one?
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
After seeing that, they have to go about making Claude's life better, period. Counseling. Letting him dress as a girl. Letting him identify as a girl, if that is what makes him/her feel right. Learn about the subject. Talk to his bitch teacher.
Day 1: Start - Halloween1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
None, I had never even heard about this book so I'm went into it with eyes wide open.
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
I could imagine after 4 boys! I actually thought it was funny the lengths she went to with the superstitions.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
So far I think they are good parents. They are attentive and loving and they seem to make it work. I do think they are in uncharted waters with Claude but do think (hope) they will be supportive with whatever happens next.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Letting him be who he is so and not hiding it.
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
Ugh, that was heartbreaking. Get help because something needs to be done.
Day 1: Start - Halloween1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
I hadn’t heard of this book before it came up as a BOM. I was a little concerned that it would be a case of “preaching to the converted” — it seemed like it might be an Issues! book, about a subject on which I am already pretty familiar.
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
Totally understandable. Poppy’s death was tragic, but Rosie’s pursuit of a daughter didn’t really surprise me at all, regardless of whether it was a conscious or unconscious search for her lost sister.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
I LOVE IT. They are pretty great parents.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Wearing what he wants wherever he wants is the way to go. I know families with transgender kids who have been through this.
The grandmother reminds me of the one in the film Ma Vie en Rose. Anyone here ever seen it?
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
At this point, they definitely need some help from a good therapist. Even if they are on the right track, their lack of experience with gender questions shows, and they need more tools in their metaphorical toolbox.
Mod
1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
No, only the blurb on GR - I only heard of it when it was suggested by Karen. And that recommendation source gave me huge confidence - Karen's yet to recommend a duff book :)
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
It was a sad story, and a good reason to want to pass on the name. I'm not really loving the "funny asides" of is Claude making these choices because of the attempt to have a girl. Whilst they're non-serious it does irk me...
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
I like how balanced they are with sharing chores and letting the kids be the kids. They could do with more talking to each other though...
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Carmy is fab, isn't she?! I don't know what the solution would be - parenting is so hard. I'm annoyed at the attitude of the school teacher being so judgmental. Is Wisconsin bible belt country with super-conservative attitudes?
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
They need professional help to work out options to support him, and give them tools to be effective parents to especially Claude and Ben but also the others.
I'm annoyed at the attitude of the school teacher being so judgmental. Is Wisconsin bible belt country with super-conservative attitudes?Madison isn't. Madison is liberal through and through. That's where I grew up, where I went to school. The Madison school district used to be one of the best in the country (and my Mom taught 6th through 8th grade there for her whole career). Schools in the US have gone downhill since Reagan, and now everyone teaches to the test instead of teaching critical thinking skills. Not that this bothers me or anything. I am shocked by the attitude of Claude's teacher. The principle seems about right though.
Mod
The principal was sensible, but that attitude wasn't filtering down :(
In the next section I liked that it was the older kids and adults that had a problem with Claude's choices - prejudice is a learned attitude, not innate.
Mod
The principal was sens..."
Stop stealing my discussion topics :P
Mod
Post 'em quicker! ;-P
This book has the word “defenestrated” in it.LOL
Mod
Post 'em quicker! ;-P"
I like to have the questions from the previous day before I read and write my DQs. So I didn't get to reading this section until late. Then I fell asleep :P
Besides, patience is a virtue and all that nonsense!
Mod
6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is loved no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what."
What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement?
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
Mod
DQs Day 2: Maybe to Rival Neighbor Princess
6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is loved no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what."
What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
To a certain extent I do think it's true. People are bullied, made fun of, whatever for all kinds of reasons including no reason at all. The degree to which is happens vary and I think it's extra hard on kids who may not have that unconditional love at home.
I think the author does a really great job of showing the reactions of Claude's classmates to the reactions of the older kids and their parents. Kids are accepting of differences because they don't see a reason not to. I wish society would adopt that approach. I think we'd all be a lot less stressed out and angry.
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement?
I do agree with him. You do the best you can as imperfect people, in an imperfect world, with imperfect information. It's just how it is. And you just cross your fingers you don't totally eff it up. What other option is there?
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
At first I was a bit surprised because on page there was never any discussion of Poppy with the kids. But after thinking about it some, it made sense. But I worry that it may not bode well for her future.
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
I get her reasoning, especially after the gunshot victim coming into the ER. I would imagine it would be hard to try to raise a family where you don't feel all of them are safe even going to school. I'm not sure if they were foreshadowing some future issues with Roo or not.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
I think it is a recipe for disaster but I can totally see how and why it happened. I'm guessing something happens when she's in middle school, probably with gym class. And I think the backlash will be bad, painfully so.
Side note: do kids seriously shower after gym class in public schools? we never did in middle or high school. you just hoped for gym towards the end of your day so you weren't the stinky kid in class.
Mod
6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is love no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what."
What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
As per my earlier jumping of the gun (sorry Judith!), prejudice and labelling is a function of society and culture not innate: Claude's peers don't care at all, it's the older kids and parents who have expectations.
I get that having labels is easier for people - helps with reducing decisions: Claude is a boy, we use he / Poppy is a girl we use she / Claude is fluid, we use they. but labelling so early, before Claude knows what he feels isn't helpful.
Mr Tongo was fun but so exhausting! I thought the gender journaling that Penn & Rosie did was interesting, with their different views of norms.
Cindy was just awful! Why would you invite someone on a playdate if you aren't actually going to be there: that's info that the parents need to have. I understand Nick more (he's an obvious, cartoon hateful) than Cindy who is making such selfish decisions that don't make sense.
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
Oh, I think it's a bad decision. I actually felt like there was a massive leap in the book from discussing options, and Penn & Rosie being dissatisfied with them to buying into the system's strait-jacket and Claude being labelled trans and committing to Poppy. It doesn't feel healthy to shut choices down so early.
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
I can see why she did - the Jane Doe attack was grim reading indeed, and I can understand why that following from Nick would be terrifying for a parent. I think there will be problems for Roo, but he does have a strong support.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
i couldn't work out how they are keeping it a complete secret - presumably the school must know? and surely kids would pick up on that? Anyway, Poppy's PANK gang are going to discover and it's going to be epically traumatic. Or Poppy is going to have sexuality confusion and want to shift into male clothes / persona (and I'm all out of the correct terminology now, so apologies if I inadvertently get it wrong) to be genderfluid. but, hopefully the Seattle folks will be able to get over the years of lying quickly and gracefully enough.
DQs Day 2: Maybe to Rival Neighbor Princess6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is loved no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what."
What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
The quote seems quite true. A lot of school time is spent trying to be part of a group, to be loved. It is the hardest part of school, as it is so easy to lose a group of friends. I often just want to shake characters in books. Several of the adults should be shaken. I mentioned in the first group of questions that it will be a couple of generations before differences like Poppy's are taken as de rigeuer.
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement?
I have not been a parent, but that whole section seemed right on. You try to do your best, you try to make the right decisions, but you are working without a net.
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
I was surprised that there wasn't a bigger reaction from Rosie. If this story ends up with Poppy 2 in the cancer ward, I am going to be pissed. I was a bit surprised by the choice, as the author didn't let us know how much Rosie talked to the family about her sister.
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
I am prejudiced in favor of Madison, but I don't disagree with her choice. I do think that Too will come to resent Poppy a bit. I hope not though.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
Gah!!! I don't know! I think Poppy will be outed in gym class maybe. I don't think it was clear- does the school faculty know? I think some of Poppy's darkest days are in the near future. Unfortunately.
Oop, my timezone difference is showing, so I'm gonna pop some day 1 answers here real quick. Day 1: Start - Halloween
1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
None. Picking it up was a completely spontaneous decision after I went on a lookout for a new read and saw the group was just about to start this book. I hadn't heard about it before and didn't do much research either, so ended up going in with zero expectations.
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
I've always found the different ways people cope with grief and loss infinitely fascinating. Rosie's desire might seem to borderline on unhealthy, but seeing how great she and Penn are with the boys, I do think having a daughter and naming her after her passed sister would've ended up being a beautiful tribute to her rather than a way to resuscitate Poppy, even if she did dream about a daughter who'd fill the shoes her sister had left empty. After all, Rosie handled having a fifth son wonderfully, even after all the measures she'd taken to conceive a daughter, so I doubt she'd have loved Poppy any less even if she'd been nothing like her sister.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
Two words: parenting goals. I love the fact that they're a family of a scientist and an artist, the organic way they've divided the household chores and how attentive and supportive they are of their kids and their vastly different characters. And I won't even get started on how fun they've made their bedtime and homework routines.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Letting him be who he wants to be and wear what he wants to wear. I imagine restrictions would do nothing but teach him to be ashamed of who he is and think it inherently wrong. Bullying hurts, but nowhere near as much as disapproval of the people who're supposed to love you unconditionally. However heartbreaking Claude's reply, I loved the scene where Rosie and Penn assured him that it would be perfectly okay to go out in his dress loud and proud.
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
Seek help, for sure. Their love and support is essential, but at this point, I do think professional help is required.
Day 11. Did you have any preconceived ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
Not really. I had no idea what it was about until I got the book. My mind went to work building this cute family that looked like the movie version of Wonder, but with a bunch of boys. Open minded parents = open minded children, so the bunch of boys shrug off anything that the outside world would have trouble with.
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
While her sentiment is nice, no one should keep having children hoping for a certain sex. It’s a set up for heartache. I would never want to be the child who finds out they exist because their parents wanted a boy, and I ended up being just another girl.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
I’m a fan. They are laid back and open with their kids and allow them to be themselves. That their kids are obviously intelligent makes this style of parenting work for them – typically something people claim would be different if they were raising boys vs girls.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Letting Claude takes those exploratory steps are helping him discover who he really is. Starting at a young age means less is being suppressed, which could explode if not addressed.
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
Whatever they need to get their Claude back into the spotlight. Asking for help as a parent seems like the best first step.
DQs Day 2: Maybe to Rival Neighbor Princess6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is loved no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what." What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
People are judgmental assholes, no way around it, so yes I do believe that quote is true to an extent. In school it's always like you have to prove yourself - to be liked, to be popular, to not be made fun of. Adolescence is tough.
I loved how the kindergartens asked 1 question, shrugged and then moved on like Claude wearing a dress was no big deal. Because at that age, it wasn't. It's not until they hear others speak or react or when they get older and have learned those thoughts/behaviors will it make a difference.
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement?
I think I need to go back because I'm not sure which section you're referring to...
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
Hoping it's not foreshadowing anything bad. He had to have known it was special to his mother and grandmother (or heard of her mentioned) so I thought it was sweet that he picked Poppy.
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
Think they had a lot of history in Madison and the reactions so far even with that history were not great so I can understand and do agree with her choice to move the family. Roo is a little punk but I won't say anything else since I've read ahead.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
I really don't know. Someday the truth will come out, probably by mistake when Poppy uses the restroom or something. I get why they want Poppy to start fresh so there won't be any negativity like back in Madison. But will their friends/others feel betrayed for the truth being kept from them? Though I loved when Mr. Tongo made it clear that it was no one else's business what was in Poppy's pants!
Day 1: Start - Halloween1. Did you have any preconceived ideas about this book before you started, what where they?
I’ve seen this book around at the library, bookstores & blogs, but never really knew what it was about. I’m borrowing my current copy from my sister who said it was a great story. I’m ready to dive right in!
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that?
If the child was going to be a girl, I feel a little sorry for that little babe. It’s seems that Rosie wants her sister to reincarnate instead of allowing her own child to be an individual. I think it’s a beautiful sentiment to name her daughter after Poppy, but she will never replace the void of a sister.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
I think they are very loving parents. Just a few chapters in, I’m not sure I have a great read on their parent style, so I might come back to this question. It feels like they just let their lives go on without a lot of guidance.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home?
Amen for Grandma Carmy. Her reaction to Claude is the exact opposite of what her grandparents would have done. This character represents the movement of change & tolerance of differences I hope to see in our future generations.
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do?
I’m neither a Mother nor medical professional, but I think it would be important to sit with Claude & discuss his drawings. I think it’s important for him to voice how he feels & why he represents himself that way in the drawings. It’s clear that Claude values his appearance & there’s a correlation with how he draws himself.
DQs Day 2: Maybe to Rival Neighbor Princess6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is loved no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what."
What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
I think the quote rings true in that there's always going to be people you can't please and who won't like you no matter how hard you try. And that's okay. I can't remember the exact quote, but I loved what Rosie and Penn said to Claude about it being okay to pick a few people he liked and felt comfortable and safe with and run with those instead of trying to get along with everyone. As for the distinct reactions of different age groups, it's a perfect example of how much of prejudice and intolerance is learned (and taught by example) and how big of an influence the so-called societal norms have on people's perceptions of right and wrong. I absolutely adored the scene where Claude first went to school in a cute outfit he'd picked himself, how much of a build-up of nervous energy there'd been preceding it and how innocent the actual round of questions was. So sweet!
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement?
I'm completely blanking here. I'm usually quick to take notice of the moment the story references to the title, but I've been reading it as an ebook, so the title's not been as in my face as it would with the physical copy.
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
To be honest, I thought it was a bit on the nose for Claude to go with that particular name and for Rosie to end up with a Poppy-named daughter she'd always wished for, even if the explanation for that choice (the grandma Carmy's story about how Jews used to name their children) wasn't all that bad. But I do think the name fits him for the happy and perky ring of it alone.
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
I do understand where she was coming from. It's natural to want what's best for your family and being willing to go to great extents to ensure they're living their best and safest lives. Especially after the shock of the Jane Doe incident in the E.R. The decision might've felt a bit rushed and one-sided, but then again, she'd always planned to move and I don't really think their quality of life suffered from it. If anything, it was a new and exciting experience (living closer to the city, having neighbors etc) for the whole family. As for Roo, seeing as much of their settling in was skipped (unless we get more flashbacks or I read into it wrong), I don't think we'll be seeing major problems arise there.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
Uh, that's a tough one. I see why they made that decision. Poppy's gender identity is a deeply personal and intimate thing and it really is none of anyone's business. Plus it allowed her to really settle into the person she is and I completely understand never finding the perfect time to come clean, so to say (let's be real, there is no such thing). But it will only get harder down the road and things like these have a way of coming out, so I'm honestly holding my breath for Poppy at this point. Here's to hoping it'll first come out in a very personal setting with Aggie and/or the rest of the girls. and she will receive the love and acceptance she deserves.
Day 1: Start - Halloween1. Did you have any preconcieved ideas about this book before you started, what where they? I had no idea what the book was about. When I read the blurb right before I started the book, I thought "oh I hope it isn't preachy"
2. Rosie shares with us the continued pursuit of having a daughter and possibly having a version of her little sister Poppy in that daughter, what was your reaction to that? I do think it is normal to want a girl after all those boys (and I'm sure she'd want a boy if she had all girls. But losing Poppy at such a young age made Rosie want it even more I think.
3. What do you think of Rosie and Penn's parenting style so far?
I like how they parent - especially how they do homework together and stuff.
4. I'm loving grandma, she doesn't even blink twice when Claude wants a bikini; what do you think would help Claude most, letting him wear bikini and dress in public or restricting him to only wear those at home? I can totally see their concern and wanting to protect him from others - what a tough situation. I liked that he wore the bikini to the pool, and really it didn't go THAT badly
5. It breaks my heart when Penn shows Rosie the drawings Claude has made of the family, where he is getting smaller with every drawing. What should they do? I think they need to get support from people with experience with the issue, both counselors and those who have gone through it.
Day 2: Maybe - Rival Neighbor Princess6.) The adults in this book have a wide range of reactions to Claude. You have the fun Mr. Tongo, the principle, Victoria Revels, Miss Appleton, the gun totting Nick, the horrible Cindy (who risks a kid's life like that!?!) and their reactions to Claude vary drastically. Thinking about these characters, I keep going back to the quote "At home Claude is loved no matter what. At school, sometimes it feels the opposite: you are not loved no matter what." What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
I do think this quote is true, yes. At least, I hope kids are all loved at home no matter what, since love is certainly not assured anywhere else, ESPECIALLY not school!
Younger kids are a lot more open, in part because they have not internalized many of society’s norms and values, but this is a double-edged sword. That is, they are less caring about things that adults and older kids perceive to be bad, but they are also less caring in the “good” way because they are so solipsistic and cannot understand other people’s complexities.
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement?
In a way, yes. This is how it always is [to be a parent]: messy, blind, not having all the answers, etc. Regardless of how unusual any one specific kid’s situation happens to be.
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead?
I was not entirely surprised, but hir choosing “Poppy” was among the most prosaic things in the whole book so far. It was like it only happened because the author was trying too hard to connect the dots. That being said, the name fits the kid, and I don’t think it foreshadowing any serious danger.
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI?
The decision to move was… pretty rash. Dramatic fresh starts can be nice, but this one was extreme and probably not as necessary as Rosie made it out to be. I think Roo will have the hardest time adjusting for sure.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
I think it’s fine not to tell most people at this point. What’s between a 1st grade kid’s legs is not anybody else’s business. But the situation will get a little murky as social norms come into play over time.
Mod
11. The description of them unpacking - pictures on wall first - is so true to me: pictures on the wall, books on shelves and the rest can wait. Do you unpack like that? More widely, did you enjoy the information about the family settling into the new neighbourhood?
12. Rosie is having difficulties settling into the new job, and the senior partner's slightly wonky (but oh-so-real) view about how flexible working actually functions. Do you enjoy that Frankel is bringing in adult life issues wider than just parenting a trans kid?
13. Roo.... poor Roo. What did you think about his video project when you first read about it? How did you feel by the end of the section? Any thoughts on how Roo's story will pan out?
14. The last chapter has a discussion about gender pay equality, and Rosie realises that Poppy had no idea about this, and wonders if they have done her a disservice by sheltering her too much from equality issues. Do you agree? Do you think it's realistic that Poppy wouldn't know?
15. I find the narrator's voice slightly odd: it veers from a high-level view down into intimate POV, and chucks in a whole load of Ominous Warnings of Impending Doom. Are you enjoying the writing style?
Mod
11. The description of them unpacking - pictures on wall first - is so true to me: pictures on the wall, books on shelves and the rest can wait. Do you unpack like that? More widely, did you enjoy the information about the family settling into the new neighbourhood?
I originally was thinking I don't do pictures first, but I thought about it some more and realized I do after the kitchen and furniture placement. It is like staking a claim and helping it go from a house to a home. I enjoyed the description and how much of a change it is from their home in WI.
12. Rosie is having difficulties settling into the new job, and the senior partner's slightly wonky (but oh-so-real) view about how flexible working actually functions. Do you enjoy that Frankel is bringing in adult life issues wider than just parenting a trans kid?
One, it made me love my boss even more and confirm he is probably the best boss I'll ever have in my life. I do enjoy it and the author is really weaving in gender issues at the adult level all throughout the novel. Even in the first section when the neighbors would make comments about Penn not having a 'real job'. Some of them were stay at home moms, which often have to deal with that BS, but even they gave him shade because he was a man and therefore in their eyes should be bringing home a paycheck.
13. Roo.... poor Roo. What did you think about his video project when you first read about it? How did you feel by the end of the section? Any thoughts on how Roo's story will pan out?
I was as horrified as his parents. Though I didn't think they dealt with the aftermath well. Not that I would know what to do either in their place. I felt a lot better at the end and it made perfect sense in teenager logic. I think he truly gets it way more than his parents do, just is ineffective about communicating his thoughts.
14. The last chapter has a discussion about gender pay equality, and Rosie realises that Poppy had no idea about this, and wonders if they have done her a disservice by sheltering her too much from equality issues. Do you agree? Do you think it's realistic that Poppy wouldn't know?
I do think they seem to be sheltering her too much considering the complicated position Poppy is in in terms of her gender and age. I wasn't surprised at her age she wasn't aware of gender pay inequality. I'm not sure it is something kids that age think about or pay much attention too. Especially since in their family her mother is a doctor and is the only one earning a paycheck.
15. I find the narrator's voice slightly odd: it veers from a high-level view down into intimate POV, and chucks in a whole load of Ominous Warnings of Impending Doom. Are you enjoying the writing style?
I agree it is a bit strange but somehow it works. I could do with a bit less Ominous Warning of Impending Doom at the end of most chapters.
DQs Day 3 - Everyone Who? - Hedge Enemies11. The description of them unpacking - pictures on wall first - is so true to me: pictures on the wall, books on shelves and the rest can wait. Do you unpack like that? More widely, did you enjoy the information about the family settling into the new neighbourhood?
Bare walls make me nuts, so yes, at least some art goes up at once. I did like Rosie's reaction to the doorbell ringing- it was such a foreign event. I do wonder how things would have changed if the family wasn't given the out of keeping Poppy's secret from the start though.
12. Rosie is having difficulties settling into the new job, and the senior partner's slightly wonky (but oh-so-real) view about how flexible working actually functions. Do you enjoy that Frankel is bringing in adult life issues wider than just parenting a trans kid?
I do. I think that the reality of Rosie's life is one that the partner knew about on paper, but cannot wrap his head around in reality. Nor does he want to. I have run into the "you are a woman, and therefore good at these random things that no one else wants to do" attitude as well. Frustrating.
13. Roo.... poor Roo. What did you think about his video project when you first read about it? How did you feel by the end of the section? Any thoughts on how Roo's story will pan out?
I think Too and the move is Rosie and Penn's parenting failure. There was no mention in the book about them giving him extra support even though he didn't want to move, quit football, etc. The video made me really worry that he was becoming anti LGBT. Then, I thought he really needed a film class and perhaps debate.
14. The last chapter has a discussion about gender pay equality, and Rosie realises that Poppy had no idea about this, and wonders if they have done her a disservice by sheltering her too much from equality issues. Do you agree? Do you think it's realistic that Poppy wouldn't know?
I was trying to remember how much I knew about salaries when I was ten. In a family of teachers, without a lot of money, I think all I knew was that I didn't get all the stuff I wanted. I knew my dad made more than mom, but he taught at University, and she taught at middle school. Beyond that, I think it isn't too unreasonable to think Poppy didn't know much about the topic.
15. I find the narrator's voice slightly odd: it veers from a high-level view down into intimate POV, and chucks in a whole load of Ominous Warnings of Impending Doom. Are you enjoying the writing style?
Not too much. Some of it I like- the family together being a family stuff is great. The doom stuff makes me nervous, and makes me want to skip to the end.
Day 3: Everyone Who? - Hedge Enemies11. The description of them unpacking - pictures on wall first - is so true to me: pictures on the wall, books on shelves and the rest can wait. Do you unpack like that? More widely, did you enjoy the information about the family settling into the new neighbourhood?
Yeesh, I haven’t moved in a while but I think I’ve always unpacked books, clothes, and kitchen stuff first!
The Walsh-Adams family move was cool. If they felt they had to move, Seattle was probably a good choice. There was some mention of other cities being too expensive, but actually Seattle is pretty expensive too from what I have heard and read. Their new house sounds lovely.
12. Rosie is having difficulties settling into the new job, and the senior partner's slightly wonky (but oh-so-real) view about how flexible working actually functions. Do you enjoy that Frankel is bringing in adult life issues wider than just parenting a trans kid?
This book definitely needs those wider adult life issues, or else it becomes too narrowly focused. And Howie’s attitude and passive-aggressive nonsense really pisses me off.
13. Roo.... poor Roo. What did you think about his video project when you first read about it? How did you feel by the end of the section? Any thoughts on how Roo's story will pan out?
Roo seems like a pretty normal kid, just going through a hard time and having trouble communicating. I feel sorry for him, but he will turn out okay.
14. The last chapter has a discussion about gender pay equality, and Rosie realises that Poppy had no idea about this, and wonders if they have done her a disservice by sheltering her too much from equality issues. Do you agree? Do you think it's realistic that Poppy wouldn't know?
It is absolutely realistic that Poppy wouldn’t know about gender pay equality. Kids have ZERO idea about that stuff. I mean, apart from men making more for the same work, and apart from traditional men’s vs traditional women’s jobs being paid differently, most kids barely have any idea that any kind of jobs pay differently. They imagine that they can be, like, an ice cream vendor or something and have a mansion and such. I like the way that Rosie and Penn attempted to explain hegemony. And things will only improve slowly, through several generations, so it’s good to teach kids about how things work and how things can eventually change.
15. I find the narrator's voice slightly odd: it veers from a high-level view down into intimate POV, and chucks in a whole load of Ominous Warnings of Impending Doom. Are you enjoying the writing style?
I really like the writing style. The veers are not jarring to me, but instead I find they fit in with the story and with the characters’ personalities and histories and non-linear memories. The brain: this is how it always is. ;)
DQs Day 2: Maybe to Rival Neighbor Princess6.) ...
What do you think about this quote, is it true? What does the reactions of the older kids and adults versus the younger kids say about society?
I wish the quote were true about home - it SHOULD be and ideally is - unconditional love is so important. I thought it was interesting that to the younger kids the gender thing was no big deal - I loved the class questions. As they got older, and picked up more cruel/set thinking from the others in their lives, they sure got a lot meaner.
7.) In this section we learn where the title comes from. Do you agree with Penn's statement? Yes, life is messy
8.) Claude chooses his new name, and as new names are wont to do, a new identity. Were you surprised at his choice? Do you think it was a good choice? Or a foreshadow of danger ahead? I think he must have heard about Poppy, and maybe about how his name would have been Poppy if he were a girl. Kids are always curious about names
9.) Do you agree with Rosie's decision to move the family? Do you think problems will crop up with Roo in their new home with how attached he was to life in WI? Moving is SO hard for kids Roo's age. I think she probably should have stayed, because secrecy rarely works out.
10.) What are your thoughts are keeping Claude/Poppy's gender secret in their new home? How do you think the truth will come out? When it does, what do you think will happen to Poppy?
I think having a secret/big reveal is much more dangerous than just the truth.
This is how a family keeps a secret…and how that secret ends up keeping them.
This is how a family lives happily ever after…until happily ever after becomes complicated.
This is how children change…and then change the world.
This is Claude. He’s five years old, the youngest of five brothers, and loves peanut butter sandwiches. He also loves wearing a dress, and dreams of being a princess.
When he grows up, Claude says, he wants to be a girl.
Rosie and Penn want Claude to be whoever Claude wants to be. They’re just not sure they’re ready to share that with the world. Soon the entire family is keeping Claude’s secret. Until one day it explodes.
This Is How It Always Is is a novel about revelations, transformations, fairy tales, and family. And it’s about the ways this is how it always is: Change is always hard and miraculous and hard again, parenting is always a leap into the unknown with crossed fingers and full hearts, children grow but not always according to plan. And families with secrets don’t get to keep them forever.