Fringe Fiction Unlimited discussion
Questions/Help Section
>
Have you ever kickstarted one of your books?
Tried to. Didn't work well because I didn't get the awareness out beforehand. 30 days is not actually a lot of time for a project, and we were really ambitious about it.Make sure that you have people who are willing to do some of the footwork for you (asking others, sharing with friends, etc).
Good luck!
Well, that's a bummer. Out of curiosity, how ambitious is really ambitious?Thanks for the tip, though. I'm doing my best to spread the word and have a couple others helping me. Looking into a promotional tool called backercamp. Not sure if they're all that helpful though.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Well...We were trying to account for all possible expenses for publishing the book, including marketing, design, editing services, ISBNs, ordering the books, etc. etc.
Plus prizes and all, of course.
We tried for 10k, but, even had it been half that we wouldn't have made it. Most of the money we got came from a couple close friends making donations, with very little crowd support. That's why I say make sure you have people making waves.
Wow, 10k is ambitious. I'm only shooting for 4500. Still, I guess it's all about the legwork. Luckily, writing is currently my full time gig, so I have all day to spread the news all over the interwebs. When did you run your campaign? Any thoughts on trying again?
Several months ago. And I won't be trying again unless and until I have an established fan base - but maybe not even then. It turns out that we haven't needed it as much as we thought...although it would have been some nice exposure.
Interesting. So you guys launched anyway but without the funding? How did that turn out? Publishing without funds is something I have been thinking about a lot these days. I have no idea how well this kickstarter will actually pan out and so I'm trying to sort out what I can do without funding. I released a collection of short stories earlier this summer just to test the self publishing waters and I know I can release an ok book, but I worry about the cover being so uncompelling as to never draw in a reader that isn't a person I know.
We had a few hundred dollars, so we ordered books and sold them at live events. Looked into "free" marketing. Entered a couple of contests and won one (so far!) The cover is something that is vitally important, you're right. My wife makes most of ours herself.
Sounds like you guys are still making a solid go of it anyway! That's great to hear. Congrats on winning a contest! I made my cover for my collection of short stories and for this novel in serial form they're not awful, but they could be a lot better. I'm not a graphic designer and I'm certainly not an artist (not in terms of painting or drawing at any rate) so the best I can do is take my photographs and do the best I can with photoshop (or gimp, the free equivalent).
Luckily, it's something I find fun to do, but the results still aren't what I'd hope for.
Remember that there are lots of artists who are really good, but struggling to find clients or build a portfolio. Seeking them out can be good for both of you.Other than that, you're right - time = money, and so you have to decide which one to spend :)
Very true! The cover artist I've found for this project is awesome! And not that expensive (compared to the ones generally hired by trad publishing companies) but still not cheap. I would be able to afford him without funding, but it would put a strain on my finances and I would have to forgo copyediting etc. Still... might be worth it. And if not, I could always find cheaper artists.
Update in case anyone is curious: the project is off to a really solid start. We're at 24% at the moment. Still a ways to go, but happy with the progress made in just two days!
I have heard of indiegogo and know a few people who have used it to great success. It had the benefit of being able to keep whatever money you raise even if you don't reach your goal which lots of people like (not ideal for my purposes, but great for some projects). Indeed thinking of Hemingway or Poe Kickstarting their work is... maybe worth a short story?
We should each write one story and compare results. You want Hemingway or Poe?
Update one week out: 38% funded so far. Making progress. I wrote a blog post about the ups and downs so far. Here's think link again if anyone is curious: Blade's Edge Kickstarter
Not to offend anyone but I personally think kickstarter is best for special projects only. that is, if I wanted to put out a super cool hardcover edition or something like that. I think an author should be able to put out a novel themselves and I say that as someone living in poverty. Then again, to each their own. If people are willing to pay well, there's no reason you shouldn't take advantage of that.
Mod
Interesting point Tiger (and Justin apparently). I can (and have) put out a book on zero budget at all, but I would prefer to put out Blade's Edge on a budget that gives it an even playing field with traditionally published books. I think that is the point of Kickstarter, it evens the playing field for independent pursuits of all kinds, not just books. Why use Kickstarter only for a special edition? You can make a hardcover in createspace just as easily as you can a trade paperback. What do you need additional funding for in that case? If you already have a cover you like and feel the book is edited well enough to be in print why not just format for hardcover and let it sell on amazon?
The other book I've released (the one with no budget) is a collection of short stories. As such it was quite a bit easier to edit thoroughly (all the stories had already been edited multiple times over the years and were in pretty good shape already). A big part of releasing it for me was to learn as much as I could about the self publication process and see which parts I thought I could do myself and which parts I wanted to pay others for. I made the cover for my short story collection myself (luckily I had some photographs of my own that worked), but in doing so I decided that I wanted real cover art for my fantasy books. Copyediting a full length novel well is something that is best done professionally. Publicity and marketing are things that are difficult to do organically and paying for a very small campaign will allow me to put more time back into my writing instead.
Kickstarter projects are small time investments. People use them to launch businesses, sell cookies and gourmet marshmallows, fund short films, and release books (among millions of other things). They use them for that purpose all the time. The whole idea is to let small independent business ventures get the best shot possible without having to go bankrupt in the attempt.
As such, I happen to believe that the launch of any book on Kickstarter, whether it's a 'special project' or not, is viable.
Pretty sure. I'll double check, but I think it's there. (Double checking now...)
Nope. Apparently my brain made that up. They have the dimensions for hard cover, but it's still trade paper. Confused my befuddled brain.
Okay :) I was confused because I made my HC through Ingram-spark, but would love to get it listed on Amazon through CS (probably more royalties that way). Ah, well. Back to the topic!
Hehe... Sorry to get your hopes up by completely misremembering the createspace cover options! I've heard bookbaby is also good, but I haven't looked into HC options much. How was your experience with Ingram-spark?
Works fine. The quality is fantastic. I had to price my book at $27.95 to make any money off of the wholesale discount that B&N uses (55%). I get about $.70 per copy that way.If you follow their template, everything works easily and their customer service is great.
In terms of unit sales, how does hard cover compare to trade paper? (If you don't mind my asking.) I have zero experience with selling hard cover so I'm curious.
Unknown at this time; too early. At my in-person event, I sold 10 HCs compared to 9 PBs.
Nice! That's good to hear. (Even if it's a one time anecdotal piece of evidence it's more than I had to go on a few minutes ago.) Filed away for future reference. But I expect a full report when you have more data! ;-)
Naturally. When I'm famous and wildly successful, I'll be able to help you more ;)My next three books will all have a HC edition. They're just so gorgeous! I'll have them out by the end of the year.
Excellent! Looking forward to your famous remembrance of your old goodreads forum pals and kindly sharing your new best seller sales data! :-)Also, congrats on releasing all of those in hard cover (and releasing them period) good work!
Mod
Justin, do you mean using kickstarter to fund a book launch wouldn't be for you? (Just trying to clarify. Sorry if I'm being dense.)It's certainly not for everyone. It's a ton of work, and with no guaranteed payoff. I go back and forth daily about whether or not I'd do it again, but I'm reserving judgement until I actually make it to the end of the 30 days.
It's certainly a learning experience, and if it works it will lead to a much stronger book launch than I would have had otherwise. (It has the additional bonus of helping create a fan base before the book is launched.)
Mod
It's certainly not for everyone. It's a ton of work, and with n..."
It's fine and yes that's what I meant. I didn't know what it was until I read the comments and it gave me an idea. Then Tiger said it should be for special projects and its not for everyone and as I looked at the site myself I've come to realize I don't have the time, patience or funds to get started on kickstart.
Mod
So, it can be used for any creative project at all including inventions and other stuff like that. I don't know the ins and outs of go fund me so I don't know how much is similar. I do know that kickstarter requires their projects to have a product of some kind, so that's a difference between it and gofundme. There's also indiegogo which is almost identical, but a slightly different platform. You do not have to pay anything to use kickstarter, BUT if you fund successfully they take a 5% fee so you're supposed to account for that in your funding goal.
You set a goal for how much your project will cost (including the cost of producing and distributing your rewards) and then you have a limited amount of time (you set the limit but they recommend 30 days or fewer) to reach that goal. It's an all or nothing proposition. If you raise your goal or over, you keep everything (minus the fee). If you don't meet your goal all the money goes back to the people who pledged and no fee is charged at all.
So, in my case, I'm offering things like copies of the book, prints of the cover art, a personalized short story, etc as rewards for different levels of backing. So, let's say someone pledges $20 in exchange for the trade paperback. At the end of the campaign, if I reach my goal, I send them a copy of the trade paperback. If I don't reach my goal. They get nothing from me, but they do get their money back.
So it's essentially a pre-order campaign that pays for your production costs, with the option to pledge extra money for other cool rewards or because you're feeling generous. :-)
Mod
Hmm...interesting. Now that you describe it, it doesn't sound as intimidating and confusing, sounds worth trying. A 50/50 sort of deal. Thanks for the info Virginia, I checked out your video, you looked so comfortable like you'd done it before and the trailer was excellent, very good job!
Aw thanks so much for giving it a look Justin! Looking comfortable came from it being the 50th take. :-) I'm glad you liked the video. My husband and I spent a long time on it. Also, glad my explanation was helpful. Kickstarter may not be for everyone, but it is something that anyone can try. And I think more indie authors should. :-)
Virginia wrote: "Hey folks,I'm running a Kickstarter right now in order to indie publish my novel Blade's Edge that currently exists as a web serial over on Jukepop serials. (I've included those links just in cas..."
Hi Virginia! Here's my experience using Kickstarter to help raise funds toward additional illustrations in my book...
I was already working on my illustrated book project and using my own funds to pay for some artwork BEFORE I started a Kickstarter campaign. I decided to use Kickstarter to expand the number of illustrations in the book (if there were enough people interested in seeing that happen, of course). In the end it worked out, and the Kickstarter campaign was successful. I reached my funding goal, primarily using Facebook to spread the word. And although some of the money went back to Kickstarter "backers" through rewards promised to them, the funding still helped.
As a side note, I found my illustrator though Elance.com, and used the Elance platform to work with her (we are countries apart) and pay her. Because we were already working together for the initial couple of illustrations, I knew what her pricing was like per piece -- and I used that to calculate what my goal would be on Kickstarter. We created more illustrations using the additional funds, and then I was so excited with how the book was developing that I put up more of my own money on top of it to expand the book's artwork further!
So that's pretty much my experience. In the end, I paid for most of the development of the book myself (including design, publishing, and so on), while Kickstarter helped me to expand the book's visuals.
Here's the final product on Goodreads, if you're curious: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
And you could check out the completed Kickstarter campaign by searching Google for: Children of Earth and Star
Good luck with your campaign! I'll definitely be checking it out. :)
Neat project, RR. I checked out the first ten pages on amazon and the illustrations are beautiful! Nice work. It's interesting to hear how different people's projects have panned out on kickstarter. Thanks for sharing how yours went. I'm so glad it was successful!
Mod
Yeah. I've seen a couple of authors run campaigns solely to fund marketing and publicity, which seems like a good idea. There are a lot of different ways to do it. I think the best thing you can do to prepare is check out as many different kickstarter campaigns as you can for research and then make decisions that work best for you and your project. I don't think there's a one size fits all answer for any of it.
I spent hours and hours (over a couple of months) looking into successfully funded campaigns that were finished as well as campaigns that were currently running to see what kinds of rewards made sense and what levels of funding looked reasonable. There are also whole forums dedicated to the topic.
Kickstarterforum.org is a good one. There are lots of others too.
I don't think you have to draw out your research quite as much as I did either. I think you could easily be more efficient than I was. Especially by using those forums (which I did not realize existed until AFTER I started my campaign). *facepalm*
I echo Tiger's setiments. The topic title made me cringe a little.Kickstarter as well as other crowdfunding websites, are just for raising money. Need a new roof for your house and you happen to have a book to offer? Then the new roof is the objective of the crowdfunding, not the book. The book is just an incentive.
Now, that's not to say there can't be lots of creative uses for crowdfunding. Once my graphic novel is up and running, all goes well enough, I do plan to look into crowdfunding for the purpose of printing the graphic novel myself, instead of relying on print on demand. But, still, the objective would be printing costs, and the graphic novel is the incentive.
I feel that if any kind crowdfunding is used to launch a book, well, it just doesn't work that way.
Something that might help answer some questions (it's focused on comics rather than a regular book, but I imagine there's a lot of process overlap): http://ironcircus.com/shop/home/27-le...But a couple words of warning despite the fact it is possible to fully fund production of a book on Kickstarter (Ms. Trotman has had an almost ridiculous level of success with it): factor in taxes and the site's cut before you set any kind of monetary goal (the former will probably take about a third of whatever you get), factor in shipping costs if there are any involved with incentives, rewards, etc., and do not even bother starting unless you already have enough demand for your work to get the attention/money you think you need.
Hey Lily,I'm curious as to how crowdfunding for printing your graphic novel is in any way different from crowdfunding to print a regular novel. I think I must be misunderstanding your post. Would you mind clarifying? (It could be that it's late and I'm tired.)
Thanks for the advice, Patrick! Just out of curiosity, are you sure about the tax piece. I was under the impression that as long as all of the funds went into financing your project they could be written off as business expenses. Have you had a contradictory experience to this?
I just said I would be interested in crowdfunding for raising money for printing costs, and used my graphic novel as an example. I still wouldn't use it to launch any kind of book.
So you mean you wouldn't use it for publicity or marketing? (Just trying to clarify.)
Not really. It's not social media. It might help, every little bit helps, and I suppose it doesn't hurt. well, correction, I think it can hurt. Something about no fulfilling your end, such as, prizes, or something like that.
So, you're saying that failing to fund would risk hurting your book release more than never having run a kickstarter to begin with?That's probably a valid point. Luckily if you fail to fund, all the money gets returned so you don't have to worry about failing to send off a product you can't afford to make, but still, just the failure itself might hurt the overall future of the book.
In my case I decided it was worth it. I can't afford copyediting and professional cover art at the moment without extra funding, so in this case the goal is truly the production of the book. And I've already gained a lot of exposure for my writing that I wouldn't have otherwise.
Still, it's a calculated risk, and I suppose it could all blow up in my face. Here's hoping that doesn't happen!
Virginia wrote: "Thanks for the advice, Patrick! Just out of curiosity, are you sure about the tax piece. I was under the impression that as long as all of the funds went into financing your project they could be w..."I've just picked up things here and there. I believe that certain things can be written off (for instance, the cost of incentives and rewards), but I'm reasonably sure any money going toward providing the "service" or "production" is taxable. I'm certain Ms. Trotman has a more concrete answer on that than mine, though.
I'm running a Kickstarter right now in order to indie publish my novel Blade's Edge that currently exists as a web serial over on Jukepop serials. (I've included those links just in case anyone's curious.)
Has anyone on fringe run a kickstarter for one of their books yet? How has it gone? I've certainly seen a number of other publishing projects over on kickstarter, but I'm curious if anyone in this forum has personal experience they'd like to share. Thanks!
~Virginia