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Dances with Wolves
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Dances with Wolves - book and movie
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Thanks for the introduction Zeljka! I´ve not seen the other films, but A Man Called Horse sounds familiar to me. Will look, if I´ll at least get the two movies you mentioned!Dances With Wolves is one of my favourite movies, so I´m looking forward to reading the book in my holidays which start tomorrow!
I would like to request that when you post, just say what chapter you are on. That way,we can avoid spoilers. Friends have said spoiler tags can't be read on smart phones.
Up to Chapter 13.Have this as an audio book from Audible.
Saw the movie a long time ago so remember very little. I work with horses now as a volunteer at a therapy riding place. That gives me a new perspective on this too!
I am finding this both amusing and touching at the same time. I laughed at the image of the naked white man who gleamed in the light like a god. Plus, I love that the horse escapes each time it is stolen and gets back to the Dunbar.
I was,touched by the way the tribe handled the grief and loss. First, it was very evident that the man and woman had a special relationship. That made the loss of the man even more touching. The way the tribe handled the grief of the wife was very kind.
That 12 year old boy "smiles a lot" would have been me! Haha! Getting out of hard work so I could watch the horses!
Up to chapter 16. I wish we would have more people comment here. What is the normal way? Do people wait until they are finished?I like the way the writer, Blake shifts points of view. We get to know how Lieutenant Dunbar thinks about the Indians and what they think about him. I like how the Indians see him as funny. Kicking Bear gets a sense that he is a good person just by his eyes. I think it is true that you can often get a sense of if a person is good or not that way. Also, the Indians like him because they sense that he is sincere. I find it interesting how they gradually find ways to overcome the language barrier.
Up to chapter 20 now. I agree with what you say Joanne about more comments as well as the description of the thoughts of Dunbar as well as the Comanches.I always loved the film, though there are "good" and "bad" Indian tribes, which also appears in the book, and which I can´t approve of. There may be good and bad persons, but not whole groups of them.
So far I think the book is similar to the film (which I´ve seen a long time ago) except for the naming of Dunbar. Also curious how the relation to Standing With A Fist will turn out!
I was curious about the accuracy of the portrayal of the Indians. In a Wikipedia article which references another article from "The Pawnee Nation: An Annotated Research Bibliography" there is the following quote:"Judith A. Boughter wrote: "The problem with Costner's approach is that all of the Sioux are heroic, while the Pawnees are portrayed as stereotypical villains. Most accounts of Sioux–Pawnee relations see the Pawnees as victims of the more powerful Sioux"
I just want us to keep in mind that although the depiction of the Indians is in many ways accurate, there is some artistic license.
Thanks for the Wiki article Joanne! I´m not sure about the artistic freedom though, as the "Indians", rather called Natives or First Nation in the US, have suffered a lot from the white emigrants.
Obviously Blake wants to show that Dunbar is attracted by their kind of living, so he should perhaps think if he wants to use the stereotype of many movies dealing with the First Nation, that some tribes are good and others bad.
A pity I don´t know much about the Native Americans, but I don´t think that Comanches and Sioux are the same, as mentioned in the Wiki article.
Hope to finish the book today, and when I return from my holidays to watch the film again! As far I think the content is similar, but the making of book and film quite different.
I looked at a few websites held by Native or First People tribes. It seems like the book features the Comanche tribe and the movie features the Sioux. They had similar rabbits but were not the same tribe or even related to each other it seems.
Another historical inaccuracy seems to be the way the buffalo are slaughtered. Some say the practice of slaughtering them just for their hide is a practice that happened later in history.
Thanks Joanne for more information! I finished the book a while ago, but haven´t re-watched the film yet, but I´ve got the impression that the book shows both sides better than the film which focusses very much on Dunbar and shows everything from his perspective. The end is also a bit different.
I'm sooo behind on my book reading list! Got both the book and movie, and planning on starting tomorrow. I have seen the movie a zillion times, but its been a long time. It was one of my most watched movies as a child, together with the Indiana Jones Trilogy, Robin Hood, and maybe the Ten Commandments (yes, it is a weird list xD).
I found the comments about the Indians very thought provoking! Portrayal of other cultures has advanced a lot in recent years, even if stuff we see is not always historically accurate (like Mary Queen of Scots to mention a recent movie that fails at historical representation so much!) and the same can be said about writing in general. So i'm really looking forward to reading it with that in mind. :P
Glad you´re joining in Lorena! Hope we´ll have more discussion once you´re finished. I still have to re-watch the film! ;)
Finished the book. Stop reading if you don't want spoilers below. I have learned that those who read on devices can't use spoiler tags.********************************************************************************************************************************************
In the story, I liked the development between Dunbar (or Dances With Wolves) and the woman, Stands with a Fist. I liked how the author described how she got her name. I liked how they were wary of each other at first but gradually came to love one another. I thought it was very intuitive of Dunbar to notice that Stands with a Fist was acting differently toward him at a certain point. He was respectful toward her and waited until she was ready to talk to him.
I really identified with the character of Stands with a Fist. I thought about how hard it would be for her to have lost her first husband. Next, she fell in love again only to come close to losing Dances With Wolves several times. Sometimes I feel like that with my husband. It is almost as if he were a warrior going off to war each day with that long commute he does. There are times I fear he won't come back but I try not to think about it. What did you think about how their relationship developed?
I liked the way the book ended. The chief (I think it was Ten Bears) first thought the spirits were telling him that it would snow the next day and that Dances With Wolves would leave then. When it didn't snow, it took Ten Bears several days of thinking before he had an answer. He realized that there was no longer a person named "Dunbar" only Dances with Wolves, the Comanche warrior. After that, there was an understanding that Dances With Wolves would stay with the Comanches because that was where he belonged. I don't know though, it seems to me that the White men may have found him. However, the story says that they traveled very far away and had a peaceful life for a very long time. What did you think of the ending? I understand it is different from the movie. I haven't gone back and watched the movie.
I enjoyed how this story helped me to imagine the wilderness and what life may have been like back then. Even though it was not entirely accurate historically, I felt it gave a respectful view of the Indians.
I missed how Dances with Wolves got his name. I know that he had that wolf that always followed him around. On that day, the wolf kept following him and Dunbar kept trying to make him stop. Eventually, Dunbar let the Wolf follow. At the same time, one of the Indians was watching. That was how he got his name. I don't remember there being a part where he actually "danced" though. Was there something I missed?
Did you have any other thoughts on this book?
Mod
I´m still reading Inkheart too, but I was so curious about the book Dances With Wolves, I had to read that first (and I had also suggested it)! :) Looking ahead to your thoughts Zeljika!
I know I am quite late with this but so far this is my review of 51% of Dances with wolves>I am in love with a place that no longer exists. I am in love with a soul of a people that has been watered down through history by a civilization that never tried to understand it. I am in love with the words used by Loo Te Nant Dunbar to describe the feeling behind the buffalo hunt, the amazement of life in everything that surrounds him and the alienation to the actions of his own people. I am dreading moving forward now.
I know what is coming and I have enjoyed this book so much that I fear reading more. I always suffered so the next part watching the movie that i am preparing a box of tissues...
Also, I read this in one seating, i felt so hooked and so in love with it all it just flew by. Until i realized what was going to happen after the buffalo hunt and I was like OH no! And had to stop. :P
If anyone is still reading this, this is my final review. I regret having taken so long to read it, and even stopping in the middle because i didn't want to see Cisco or Two-Socks die. I didn't want to see it and it still wrenches my heart, but I enjoyed this book so much that somehow it all balances out. So, here it is, my final review after a few hours of finishing it!I am in love with a place that no longer exists... With the rolling murmur of wind through tall wild grass on the never ending fields... With the entwined branches of centuries old forests, hushed and alive in the silence of its own wilderness... With the image of ponies grazing peacefully under the watchful eye of a dreamy Indian teenager... With the husky smell of pipes being smoked and fires being burnt... With a village filled with cheer and singing women doing their chores...
I am in love with the words of Michael Blake, with his direct simple speech and its rich but unadorned prose.
I am in love with Loo Te Nant Dunbar and how he is in love with the frontier. His open mindedness to learning, to understanding and to commute with an otherness that is as alien as it is captivating. The amazement and joy for life in everything that surrounds him makes him a joy to read and his emotions translate through the pages with a vividness that you can't help but be moved by.
Michael Blake has made it so easy to love the Comanches and their natural way of living, that the contrast presented by the unbathed, crude and, quite frankly, homicidal soldiers leaves no option for the reader but to condemn them. There is no chance you won't end this book in love with the soul of these Indian people, feeling bereft by what we know awaits them in their (imaginary but true) future. For we know that the Indian history, throughout the conquest of the frontier, is a history of wrong doings, of promises broken, of a people subjugated and of the dwindling of a different way of living and understanding the world.
It is fitting that as this book ends, we are no longer presented with John Dunbar, for his transformation is so complete, that there only remains Dances with Wolves. And in my mind he shall forever be so, Dances with Wolves, riding Cisco with Two-Socks by his side.
Oh! and i also feel that the movie was sooo well done! There is very little left out and it translates the spirit of the book so well, that at moments I could place scenes of the movie as I read it. Kevin Costner really did a superb job!
My father also did a buddy read with me on this book. He pointed out something of Dunbar's transformation that we didn't. His transformation becomes so complete that he is willing to kill white soldiers. That scene where Dunbar is being taken by the white soldiers and the Comanche Indians rescue him is extremely bloody. So much so that it seems the Indians killed many more white soldiers than necessary. That scene makes them seem just as bad as the white soldiers in their disregard for life. I don't want to overly romanticize the Comanches. In the book, that part is to show that Dunbar is so changed that he is willing to kill whites.I agree that it is a shame what was taken from the Indians. It is so sad that the wilderness and way of life was lost.
That scene comes right after we find out that they killed Two-Socks and Cisco. I admit I was feeling a bit blood thirsty myself...For me the soldiers sound so repulsive in their ignorance, that they are not what Dunbar was before the Indians. He could read and write, you could see his mind working the world around him and reason always came first with him, not violence.
This garrison is made of another kind of soldier, the type that would use a diary so precious in knowledge and information, as toilet paper. The type that would shoot first and ask questions later.
Also, If you remember an Indian came towards him in a horse just the same as he did, but Dunbar didn't shoot, he stood there and faced the Indian in awe, not in anger and fear. For me, both scenes are the same, the book closing its loop. The only thing different is how the other part reacts, and that is what defines them.
Mod
Oh yes! It's like the Call of the Wild, though in that case the one in the wilderness is a dog, but the idea of being uprooted and thrown into a virgin territory like that, it amazes me.Also, I love wolves! I couldn't love more his interactions with Two-Socks! And yes, there is sadness up ahead, but it is such a beautiful story, that I can say with total conviction it is so worth reading it.
Mod
Somehow this story made me rethink some things, how we value our life and our achievements, and what really matters. Those white soldiers didn't value anything. They didn't care nor they wanted to understand. Dunbar never belonged to them in the first instance, not a single one cared for themselves and their environment. Natives only opened his heart to the full extent of his capabilities. As for interpretation of the tribes mentioned in the book, I know so little to understand what was wrong or right :( However, I hope I'll read someday something more about this subject.
P.S. As for Dances With Wolves moniker, I think Comanches saw Dunbar playing with the wolf - [spoiler ahead!] (view spoiler) - and it appeared to them as dancing :)
This is my favorite movie of all time. For those of you younger kids, if you do not like the slower type, drama and content, I suggest they copycat Avitar. Avatar is the same story.Anyway, this is the ONLY book that i have read that the actual movie wins the argument of "Which is better, the movie or novel". From the cinematography to the acting, to the score, the movie is just perfect. I felt the writing was sorta elementary. I am no writer but i just wish the book was better.
I think that the writing style is so simple because the writer was actually a screen writer for movies, so he clearly thought in pictures and what would happen for viewers if the story made it to the movie format. He also was a part of the filming and the one who pushed him to write the story after the writer told him about it was Kevin Costner himself. Maybe that is in part responsible for how it turned out. I agree wholeheartedly that the movie is just perfect. I grew up watching it, like a hundred times. So, when I read the book, maybe in my mind I was seeing scenes from the movie, like how they were dressed or how i imagined their faces being the ones from the actors. :P
Mod
I did some digging afterwards, and learned that actors were speaking a feminine aspect of the language, most likely because their language coach was a woman. Although probably amusing to hear for Lakota language speakers, it still seems improper and disrespectful that it wasn't taken into account. The language was very difficult to learn, and I praise the actors and actresses who did their jobs remarkably. It would've only be better if they were told their lines properly just for authenticity sake for native speakers.
I am so curious now to watch Dances with Wolves: The Creation of an Epic (2003). I wish to know how they did the movie on the whole, and especially how they chose the actors, especially native ones. Their characters were all so fascinating. Even actors who played Pawnees were so dignified and proud. I am aware the movie didn't depict relations between Pawnees and Sioux correctly (just like they did that blunder with the language), but on the whole the Native Americans were shown in the respectable light. This movie made me all the more resolved to start reading something substantial about Native Americans. The only book I have is Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, but maybe I should first check other people's reading lists and suggestions. Did you too feel inspired to read more about them after watching the movie? Do you have any suggestions for me?
As a fiction book if you like YA, my favorite is the Wolf Brotherseries. I read all of them except the last one I think.
Mod
Thank you, I'll check it :)
Oh, I didn't know about that documentary about the making of it, I will try to look it up! Sounds super interesting. Same with the language, there are so many details to know, unbelievable how little care is generally put into representing another culture. I mean, didn't the language trainer say anything about her idioms being feminine? Makes me wonder how many things must be wrong in other period movies!
Mod
Lorena wrote: "Oh, I didn't know about that documentary about the making of it, I will try to look it up!.."
Watched the documentary! It was really interesting. The atmosphere on the making of the movie seemed so earnest, I am ready to forgive all the blunders they made along the way. One thing caught my attention - Michael Blake said that his writing was largely inspired by the book I mentioned above, Bury My Heart. All the more reason to read it. By the way, I bought on Amazon the first e-book in the Wolf Brother series, so I might give it a try too.
For those who would like to read something about the production of the movie, here are some articles on the net that might interest you:
18 Epic Facts About Dances With Wolves
American Humane Association: Dances With Wolves (I love the fact that the buffalo running at the Smiles a Lot was actually going after Oreo cookies!)
The Actors Pad: KEVIN COSTNER’s incredible story on the making of DANCES WITH WOLVES
If you really want to get deep into the making of the movie, this might be good choice: Dances With Wolves: The Illustrated Story of the Epic Film
I've never read the book but I have seen the film which was quite good. (However, it did inflict Kevin Costner on us.) Though Graham Greene was exceptional. (Almost as good as he is in Red Green)
Books2Movies Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Dances with Wolves: The Illustrated Story of the Epic Film (other topics)Wolf Brother (other topics)
Wolf Brother (other topics)
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West (other topics)
Dances with Wolves (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Michael Blake (other topics)Dorothy M. Johnson (other topics)
Dances with Wolves (1990) was a hugely popular movie in the 1990s and remains a classic of the Western genre and overall in film history. It was the first Western film to win an Oscar for Best Picture since 1931's Cimarron. The movie supposedly differs in some ways from the book. We'll see for ourselves what those differences are, and if the book is better for them or not. (I assume you all watched the movie first - this one is of a kind where the fame of the movie precedes the book. My guess though!).
Although there was a John Dunbar, a Christian missionary who lived among the Pawnee in the 1830s, this story is fictional, and a mix of true tales that did happen in the history of the Wild West. The storyline though was probably also inspired by A Man Called Horse, a story by Dorothy M. Johnson, later made into the same-name movie (1970). (It might be interesting to add this story to our list of quick reads). Weirdly, it is said Dances with Wolves (1990) is similar to yet another movie, Run of the Arrow (1957). I am inclined to suggest to read and watch them all, before passing any judgment :)
Freely share your thoughts, impressions, likes and dislikes for both the book and the movie, in whichever order you like. If you are familiar with those two movies and the story mentioned above, I would like to hear your opinions about them too.