Jane Austen July 2025 discussion
2019
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Sense and Sensibility readalong (SPOILER FREE/in time with schedule)
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The schedule is on the group home page. I'll add it into the top of this discussion board as well.
I'm looking forward to the discussions. I almost started reading S&S today, but managed to resist. :-)
Antía wrote: "hi, I've just read today's chapters (1-4) I must say, the dialogue in chapter 2 between Mr John Dashwood and wife might be one of the most hillarious I've ever read!"I just finished Chapters 1-4 as well and I have to agree with you. It was hilarious. There is no doubt about her intentions (except to him).
Mrs. John Dashwood is a horrible human, but that scene is hilarious! I love Elinor’s way of describing Edward. She’s so sweet and sensible.
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It's been more than ten years when I read this for the first time and it's so nice to get back to the story. I forgot that their mom much like Marianne was a bit overly emotional. Fanny Dashwood is horrible but it is quite impressive how she negotiates her husband down from 3000 pounds to 1500 pounds to an annual stipend to occasionally giving money and then to essentially nothing! An he just goes on to think it's a great idea and his father's true intention...
This seems to have happened often in Jane Austen's time. If one member of the family inherited, the rest of the family might think the wealth would be shared. Sometimes it was, and at other times the beneficiary would reason to themselves that they'd assist their family in perhaps finding a good situation or something, but not by monetary means.
I have to agree with the group. Fanny is terrible. There always seems to be an evil woman of her ilk in books. Half siblings are still siblings, Fanny!
Fanny is such a horrible person but let’s face it, the scenes which she is in are all very entertaining! Jane Austen was amazing at developing characters whether you like them or not!
Agreed, the characterizations are brilliant and entertaining. I'm excited to read more.
I jumped ahead and read Sense and Sensibility last month for the first time. I’m re-reading it again now per the weekly chapter guide. I’m glad I am reading it twice because I will absorb more details. I have the Everyman’s Library Edition and will be listening to it on Audible too. Jane Austen does a great job of presenting her characters in the beginning. I sure don’t like that Mrs. Fanny Dashwood! I hope she gets her share of karma in the end!
So reading the annotated edition is really adding to my understanding of just how petty Fanny and John Dashwood are. I always knew they were greedy jerks but the edition I’m reading spells out just how much money they already had before inheriting Norland. It would be like a multi billionaire begrudging someone $50,000. That might be a lot of money to most people but not to someone with that kind of wealth. They could have spared it. Although it does make Fanny’s argument about how their son will be destitute if they give the sisters any money even more hilarious.
Some thoughts on Drawing... In Sense and Sensibility, in chapter 4, there is quite a lively discussion about Edward and the importance of being able to draw. As a bit of an artist myself, this caught my attention and made me ponder the importance. I don’t think in today’s time it is given much thought good or bad if one can draw or not. So why was it so important back in Jane Austen’s day? I’m guessing here... The first photograph that we know of was taken in 1838. Thus, photography was not known in Jane Austen’s time. I think because they didn’t have photography to record the likeness of others, or their surroundings, and every day life, and perhaps even for the sake of sketching out structures, aspects of simple engineering and mechanics, and that of agricultural etc., made the skill of drawing important and highly admired. What do you think? If you know of the true historical reason that the ability to draw was highly esteemed, do let me know.
Bonnie wrote: "Some thoughts on Drawing... In Sense and Sensibility, in chapter 4, there is quite a lively discussion about Edward and the importance of being able to draw. As a bit of an artist myself, this caug..."
Yeah, this caught my attention too. Don't know any historical reason that could put drawing in such high consideration, but the ones you say seems quite logical. Also, in the novel, I think it's a way of showing Elinor's calm (but also sensitive) personality: an artistic quiet activity contrasting with the more passionate inclinations of Marianne toward poetry and romantic music (which later will be more present when Marianne meet other characters, but I don' t want to make spoilers :)
Yeah, this caught my attention too. Don't know any historical reason that could put drawing in such high consideration, but the ones you say seems quite logical. Also, in the novel, I think it's a way of showing Elinor's calm (but also sensitive) personality: an artistic quiet activity contrasting with the more passionate inclinations of Marianne toward poetry and romantic music (which later will be more present when Marianne meet other characters, but I don' t want to make spoilers :)
Those are excellent observations and points Nuria. Indeed drawing is a quiet skill compared to poetry which can be read aloud, and music or even something athletic and outdoorsy. Drawing is a good trait to help compare and contrast personalities.
Bonnie wrote: "Those are excellent observations and points Nuria. Indeed drawing is a quiet skill compared to poetry which can be read aloud, and music or even something athletic and outdoorsy. Drawing is a good ..."
Yeah!. I didn't remember Elinor drew so well, but thought something similar reading Jane Eyre, who also draws and paint
Yeah!. I didn't remember Elinor drew so well, but thought something similar reading Jane Eyre, who also draws and paint
Nice to meet you, Antia! This is a great way for practice English, eh? :)
Thanks for the link, it's true what you say about the lady-like activities. And you're not the only one who wonders about Margaret. I believe that Emma Thompson said that when she was writing the script for the Sense and sensibility movie, had to come up with something for Margaret to do, because she is not much in the book
Thanks for the link, it's true what you say about the lady-like activities. And you're not the only one who wonders about Margaret. I believe that Emma Thompson said that when she was writing the script for the Sense and sensibility movie, had to come up with something for Margaret to do, because she is not much in the book
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There is a manual for governesses published anonymously in 1826 with the title 'The Complete Governess' that argues that drawing and painting are the most important accomplishments, and advocates that governesses teach young girls those instead of music, dancing and other popular accomplishments.
(also thank you Antía for linking to my video )
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the missing third sister.
"...as she had already imbibed a good deal of Marianne's romance, without having much of her sense, she did not, at thirteen, bid fair to equal her sisters at a more advanced period of life".I feel a bit sorry for Margaret when reading this first description of her. After all she is only thirteen and teenhood isn't always the most flattering period of people's life.
I haven’t read this Austen yet, but have seen the film adaptation many times so I do know all it all turns out, I’m enjoying the details and inner thoughts of the characters.Poor Colonial Brandon “on the wrong side of five and thirty” and “his advanced stage of life”.
I must say that this time around I am finding Marianne much more annoying than I've found her on previous reads. It may well be that I'm getting old and intolerant but in the conversation about Colonel Brandon's age, when Elinor suggests that it wouldn't be unsuitable if he were to marry a woman of twenty-seven and she comments that: "In my eyes it would be no marriage at all,..." my eyes nearly rolled out of my head.
I think I may find myself getting more and more unsympathetic as we go on. :)
So I have caught up with the reading and I noticed that so far, Edward has not uttered one word. He has been referred to, and it is assumed that he and Elinor will be married, but we don’t know anything about him expcept for the opinions of Marriane and Elinor. We’ve certainly more first hand knowledge of Brandon and Willoughby! I wonder why Austen did this?
Katherine wrote: "I must say that this time around I am finding Marianne much more annoying than I've found her on previous reads. It may well be that I'm getting old and intolerant but in the conversation about Co..."
I totally agree. I read this book about 30 years ago and I’m finding now, as women’s with children her age, Marianne irritating - with Willoughby bringing out the worst in her.
I read this book about 30 years ago and I’m finding now, as women’s with children her age, Marianne irritating - with Willoughby bringing out the worst in her.I've known a few Willoughbys in my time!
I'm glad it's not just me. It probably is that I'm getting older (and a bit grumpy) and so not finding it easy to identify with all that teenage ardour. I keep wanting to say: "Marianne, get a grip."
I still love Elinor though.
One thing that bothers me a little is how Austen seems to throw all the other female characters in the novel so far under the bus. They are either cruel like Fanny Dashwood or insipid, dull and / or unattractive like Lady Middleton and her mother.
35 being called an “advanced stage of life” and basically on the verge of death! Lol oh my.
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This is something I always find interesting! Edward's presence in the novel is quite big for a character who actually is hardly present at all.
Glad everyone is enjoying Sense and Sensibility so far!
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Claudia wrote: "I think we need to cut Marianne some slack - she is only seventeen, and I know that as a teenager the idea of dating a guy literally twice my age would have grossed me out too (still an age gap tha..."It's not the fact of her finding Brandon too old to contemplate being a partner for herself, that's completely fair enough - as Elinor says "Perhaps thirty-five and seventeen had better not have anything to do with matrimony together." It's more Marianne's dismissal of anyone over a certain (unspecified) age of being able to "feel or inspire" love.
I'm convinced this is an age thing, though. I first read Sense and Sensibility in my late teens and I was much more sympathetic to Marianne's point of view then.
I couldn't stand Marianne when I was a teen because of how rude and illogical she is. Then again I also can't stand a lot of the Romanticism ideals she is supposed to embody at this point in the book, so not sure how much age has to do with how much slack you give her versus agree or disagree with Romantic ideals as expressed by Romanticism. I reread the book last month, but am finding these discussions interesting.
Rebecca wrote: "I couldn't stand Marianne when I was a teen because of how rude and illogical she is. Then again I also can't stand a lot of the Romanticism ideals she is supposed to embody at this point in the bo..."That's a really good point; if you don't have sympathy with the tenets of Romanticism then the chances are you're going to find Marianne's excesses a pain. But I think that's deliberate, isn't it?
We're meant to be irritated by her whilst still liking her.
And you're right, she is rude - at times remarkably so.
Katherine wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "I couldn't stand Marianne when I was a teen because of how rude and illogical she is. Then again I also can't stand a lot of the Romanticism ideals she is supposed to embody at this..."Oh yes, it is quite deliberate on Austen's part. The entire book is an exploration of the pros and cons of both Enlightenment and Romanticism. You need both, either in excess is an issue, look at how alone Elinor is since her family can't comprehend how she expresses emotion since it's not over the top.
Rainey wrote: "35 being called an “advanced stage of life” and basically on the verge of death! Lol oh my."
Hahaha, that’s depressing
Hahaha, that’s depressing
Katie wrote: "Jill wrote: "So I have caught up with the reading and I noticed that so far, Edward has not uttered one word. He has been referred to, and it is assumed that he and Elinor will be married, but we d..."
Thanks to you for organise this group.
About Edward, that is indeed curious, maybe it’s a suttle way of showing that he have to has to restrain himself, due to Fanny and his family o for some other reason :)
Thanks to you for organise this group.
About Edward, that is indeed curious, maybe it’s a suttle way of showing that he have to has to restrain himself, due to Fanny and his family o for some other reason :)
My goodness, Mrs. Jennings would be very frustrating to know!
Katie wrote: "Jill wrote: "So I have caught up with the reading and I noticed that so far, Edward has not uttered one word. He has been referred to, and it is assumed that he and Elinor will be married, but we d..."Agreed 💯! We are just now seeing him have voice of his own. Not thrilled about him lying about the ring he was wearing ....
Nuria wrote: "Katie wrote: "Jill wrote: "So I have caught up with the reading and I noticed that so far, Edward has not uttered one word. He has been referred to, and it is assumed that he and Elinor will be mar..."I was thinking it more do with him being powerless. He has not control over his station and he occupation is nothing as self-described idleness.
Rainey wrote: "My goodness, Mrs. Jennings would be very frustrating to know!"Oh gosh! I love her! She’s a hoot and just says what we’re all thinking!
Jill wrote: "Nuria wrote: "Katie wrote: "Jill wrote: "So I have caught up with the reading and I noticed that so far, Edward has not uttered one word. He has been referred to, and it is assumed that he and Elin..."
Yeah, that too. Then, when he is visiting the Dashwood, we hear him at last, as if there he felt more relaxed and able to be more himself.
Yeah, that too. Then, when he is visiting the Dashwood, we hear him at last, as if there he felt more relaxed and able to be more himself.
Jill wrote: "Rainey wrote: "My goodness, Mrs. Jennings would be very frustrating to know!"
Oh gosh! I love her! She’s a hoot and just says what we’re all thinking!"
She is one of the best characters, lol
Oh gosh! I love her! She’s a hoot and just says what we’re all thinking!"
She is one of the best characters, lol
Nuria wrote: "Jill wrote: "Rainey wrote: "My goodness, Mrs. Jennings would be very frustrating to know!"Oh gosh! I love her! She’s a hoot and just says what we’re all thinking!"
She is one of the best charact..."
Haha she is hilarious! I just think if I knew her in real life I would feel just like the Dashwoods do and just roll my eyes at her all the time.
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Did I miss something? Why exactly does Eleanor love Edward? I can’t see any type of connection or any redeeming qualities. He seems kind of weak, with all those domineering women in his family. If I were Eleanor I don’t think I’d like to be sloppy seconds, but I guess when one is looking for a husband...We know so much more about Brandon. His character is much more drawn out.
Jill wrote: "Did I miss something? Why exactly does Eleanor love Edward? I can’t see any type of connection or any redeeming qualities. He seems kind of weak, with all those domineering women in his family. If ..."One theory I have is that maybe Eleanor's attention to being more discrete and sensible was transferred by Austen in the form of the novel? We get a lot of information about Marianne's relationship to Willoughby because that reflects the nature of her character at the time whereas with Eleanor we only get scraps. We also only get Colonel Brandon's back story once he feels it is necessary to reveal it in order to help Marianne. Before that he was just discreet. And in the end we don't get so much information about their relationship either....
Madelyn wrote: "Jill wrote: "Did I miss something? Why exactly does Eleanor love Edward? I can’t see any type of connection or any redeeming qualities. He seems kind of weak, with all those domineering women in hi..."
This makes total sense, Madelyn! It seems that the true sensitive people here are the ones who know when is necessary to be discreet. Even Mrs Jennings, Sir John and the Palmers shows that sensitivity behaving more discretly (in their own way) towards the end of the novel.
In fact, the moment Edward began talking more in his first visit to Barton is when our doubts about him start (and I do find the way he talks a little awkward and slightly rude sometimes). Later it’s made clear that he is a good honest man by his actions, so he don’t need to talk a lot at the end of the novel, and we don’t even hear who he propose to Elinor (the same as Colonel Brandon and Marianne).
Willoughby on the other hand... makes practically a soliloquy through several pages talking to Elinor when Marianne is ill, just in order to justify himself, but doesn’t really cares about other people feelings (Marianne, his wife, Eliza, Brandon, his own aunt or even Elinor who has to listen to all his explanations when she has bigger problems to think about, just because he didn’t dare to speak to Marianne when they were in London). His suffering and remorse are shown as real, at least in that moment. And he may be truly sensitive, but only in a superficial selfish way, because his actions are selfish and wrong and he doesn’t take responsibility for most of them, if any...
The sensitivity that matters, the real deep sensitivity is discreet, sensible, responsible and expressed through kind actions not pretty words.
This makes total sense, Madelyn! It seems that the true sensitive people here are the ones who know when is necessary to be discreet. Even Mrs Jennings, Sir John and the Palmers shows that sensitivity behaving more discretly (in their own way) towards the end of the novel.
In fact, the moment Edward began talking more in his first visit to Barton is when our doubts about him start (and I do find the way he talks a little awkward and slightly rude sometimes). Later it’s made clear that he is a good honest man by his actions, so he don’t need to talk a lot at the end of the novel, and we don’t even hear who he propose to Elinor (the same as Colonel Brandon and Marianne).
Willoughby on the other hand... makes practically a soliloquy through several pages talking to Elinor when Marianne is ill, just in order to justify himself, but doesn’t really cares about other people feelings (Marianne, his wife, Eliza, Brandon, his own aunt or even Elinor who has to listen to all his explanations when she has bigger problems to think about, just because he didn’t dare to speak to Marianne when they were in London). His suffering and remorse are shown as real, at least in that moment. And he may be truly sensitive, but only in a superficial selfish way, because his actions are selfish and wrong and he doesn’t take responsibility for most of them, if any...
The sensitivity that matters, the real deep sensitivity is discreet, sensible, responsible and expressed through kind actions not pretty words.
Madelyn wrote: "Jill wrote: "Did I miss something? Why exactly does Eleanor love Edward? I can’t see any type of connection or any redeeming qualities. He seems kind of weak, with all those domineering women in hi..."As the reader it wasn’t enough info for me to buy into her love for him. I wasn’t convinced of the attachment, sorry.
Nuria wrote: "Madelyn wrote: "Jill wrote: "Did I miss something? Why exactly does Eleanor love Edward? I can’t see any type of connection or any redeeming qualities. He seems kind of weak, with all those dominee..." I understood the “sense and sensibility” of the story. I’m just saying that as a love interest, Edward didn't convince ME. Okay, she said she was fond of him. Why? Because he was the only man in the area to talk to? He had no personality or qualities for me to see. I found I wasn’t rooting for them to succeed in their attachment and frankly though she could do better.
This discussion board is for talking about the book as we go - so, feel free to discuss what's happened in the chapters assigned for the day on which you're posting, or before, but PLEASE be considerate to other readers and avoid spoilers if you've already read this novel or are reading ahead of the schedule. I will delete any posts that I think might spoil the novel for new readers.
Our schedule is: 1st-14th July, 50 chapters
• 1st July: Chapters 1, 2, 3, 4
• 2nd July: Chapters 5, 6, 7
• 3rd July: Chapters 8, 9, 10, 11
• 4th July: Chapters 12, 13, 14
• 5th July: Chapters 15, 16, 17, 18
• 6th July: Chapters 19, 20, 21
• 7th July: Chapters 22, 23, 24, 25
• 8th July: Chapters 26, 27, 28
• 9th July: Chapters 29, 30, 31, 32
• 10th July: Chapters 33, 34, 35
• 11th July: Chapters 36, 37, 38, 39
• 12th July: Chapters 40, 41, 42
• 13th July: Chapters 43, 44, 45, 46
• 14th July: Chapters 47, 48, 49, 50
If you're behind schedule, it's probably best to avoid the boards until you catch up.
If you've already finished the book - head over to the SPOILERS board.